BTW...I'm not a priest. I don't wear a collar.And please do NOT start confessing your sins to me. LOL
Guys, this is more serious than we thought. He’s not a priest, which means he could reproduce. I’m hoping for some divine intervention!
Does concentricity matter?
- Thread starter captainmorgan460
- Start date
Guys, this is more serious than we thought. He’s not a priest, which means he could reproduce. I’m hoping for some divine intervention!
God already intervened by making me 52 years old.
No kids are coming from me.
But if this will get you to pray, I'll consider that a "win."
In an effort to get this thread back on track:
Would there at least be a consensus to say at the very least an “inexpensive” concentricity gauge would at the minimum show relative concentricity within the batch of ammo/cases/Bullets you are measuring?
I agree not all tooling is made to the same degree of accuracy capability and you get what you pay for. That being said along the same lines of my overall opinion on concentricity of loaded rounds, I have not personally seen a huge difference on target for rounds that are within .006TIR.
Over time I’ve stopped worrying so much about it. Some of my most accurate and smallest groups were shot with rounds that were not “straight”.
Would there at least be a consensus to say at the very least an “inexpensive” concentricity gauge would at the minimum show relative concentricity within the batch of ammo/cases/Bullets you are measuring?
I agree not all tooling is made to the same degree of accuracy capability and you get what you pay for. That being said along the same lines of my overall opinion on concentricity of loaded rounds, I have not personally seen a huge difference on target for rounds that are within .006TIR.
Over time I’ve stopped worrying so much about it. Some of my most accurate and smallest groups were shot with rounds that were not “straight”.
I would agree with all that.
In my experience, concentricity might matter, but it Doesn't always matter. I've had rounds that are definitely out of concentricity that shoot excellent.
I use the Wilson bullet seaters because my gauge says it produces much more concentric rounds than other Dies and by making my rounds more uniformly concentric I can Reduce that as a possible source Of In accuracy.
And I apologize that there are some posters in this forum that Have to make every thread I participate in All about their personal opinion of me. I guess Ive developed a groupie fan club here. Lol
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I love me. I don't care if anyone else does. In reality it's only about 8 or 10 people here that have this fetish with me, Stalking me everywhere I go.
Stop Hi jacking the man's thread.
Show him some respect .
Wrong. It is yall coming after me then blaming me because I defend myself..
My post are all on topic until somebody comes along like an idiot and tells me that my gauge must be inaccurate.
The second you guys stop doing that, this thread stays on topic .
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I worked as a machinist for many years. Part of the quality control regimen was checking total indicated runout. This was done between hardened and ground center's using dial indicators that were calibrated several times a year. Using such a setup allowed us to accurately measure to within a half a thou. Your equipment is nowhere near that accurate.
If you want to get serious, try this;
https://www.neconos.com/details.htm
If you want to get serious, try this;
https://www.neconos.com/details.htm
Really. Huh. Your incessant whining about people picking on you implies otherwise...just saying...
Wow, what a fucking trainwreck. As mentioned your $10 dial indicator is not as accurate as you are lead to believe. No, it's not malfunctioning as you say, just not accurate. You really need to calm the fuck down, some people have been trying to give helpful advice but YOU are the one that gets defensive and acts like a child. Hence the reason I asked if you were a teenager in another thread. If you aren't trying to reach epic troll status and are really this fucking ignorant, then all I can say is you should have been a blow job.
U feel better now?
Post more about concentricity here. Post less about your opinion of me.
Whatever level of accuracy my or any gauge is capable of, my gauge is equally capable for the loads seated with Wilson dies versus R CBS etc.
And it shows the Wilson dies are much more concentric then RCBS etc.
And it shows the Wilson dies are much more concentric then RCBS etc.
I mean… I'm really flattered by all my groupies that follow me around stalking me in every single thread I post in.
I suspect the OPs of all those threads are less impressed
I suspect the OPs of all those threads are less impressed
Actually I came to read about concentricity because I've always been curious about it but not enough to spend money on high dollar equipment since my ammo shoots just fine. People like Milo posted good information on the subject. However, as usual every thread you are in is a clusterfuck as soon as you throw a tantrum.
You are officially on ignore. And it is a tough decision to do so, because I enjoy laughing at people. I am not saying you were wrong, or even less intelligent for some of the dumbass shit you posted or the level you escalated this too.I mean… I'm really flattered by all my groupies that follow me around stalking me in every single thread I post in.
I suspect the OPs of all those threads are less impressed
I just feel you are slightly misguided in your train of thought, especially on matters where the relevance of the topic may not be there.
And don't point a finger at me for derailing this thread, I merely stated that the Wilson seater cannot straighten ammo by itself, which I took you were implying.
Well… each year has 365 days. Stack up 52 of those in a pile and that is how that happens
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Ya know, the problem with this thread is that the OP didn’t lay out any ground rules....
Since you are obviously a man in search of knowledge
here are a few reviews from sites that benchrest folks frequent:
Note the date of these threads...
R
here are a few reviews from sites that benchrest folks frequent:
I'm disappointed with the new Hornady Concentricity tool....
I just thought I'd let you guys know that I always check concentricity of my finished cartridges as I seek the tightest groups I can get whether it's my 20Tac bolt action Remington or my DPMS AR 308. So I thought that the Hornady concentricity gage would be a nice edition to the two Sinclair...
benchrest.com
R
Actually that's because children don't follow rules. As other people noted my rules were little more than what is stated in the forum rules by the board creator/owner / admins.
But like I said… I'm here to learn. And that's what I learned.
I do love my groupies… lol
Like Pavlov's dog they come and make me the center of every thread I participate in... I feel so honored....
Like Pavlov's dog they come and make me the center of every thread I participate in... I feel so honored....
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Actually that's because children don't follow rules. As other people noted my rules were little more than what is stated in the forum rules by the board creator/owner / admins.
But like I said… I'm here to learn. And that's what I learned.
You simply reap what you sow. You refuse to learn, don't pretend that is your intention.
I do love my groupies… lol
Like Pavlov's dog they come and make me the center of every thread I participate in... I feel so honored....
I would love an explanation of this analogy. It seems like you didn't grasped the concept.
Hmmm...
"It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.”
~Marcus Aurelius
"It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.”
~Marcus Aurelius
So my internal summary of the USEFUL information in this thread about concentricity:
As always, YMMV.
- Quality sizing die + floating die will mostly guarantee acceptable concentricity of brass
- Quality seating die + appropriate seating stem will mostly guarantee acceptable concentricity of cartridge.
- Measuring concentricity helps eke out accuracy/consistency AFTER everything else (*see sub-list below) has been done correctly (seems to be another process a benchrester may do but not necessarily a field shooter).
- Consistent powder charging
- Consistent seating depth
- Consistent brass after brass processing
- Low cost concentricity gauges or more like concentricity comparators. If you want to measure the actual concentricity of your cartridge, you're going to have to buy a higher quality (read: expensive) tool that references multiple areas of the brass/cartridge.
As always, YMMV.
You don't have to spend a fortune. The Sinclair model works fine.
https://www.brownells.com/reloading...cator-sku749007305-37479-70547.aspx?rrec=true
Lol, it never hurts to own one, but a good one 235+.
When you post the list of not needed, makes one think someone does not want you to hit a fucking thing. Ignore too much and you are out of the game before it begins.
Thanks for sharing this, I have a handful of indicators that don’t have a job.
The not needed list is the absolute minutae of handloading, isn't it? One can load acceptable ammo (~MOA) without those steps. Now if you're trying to break bench rest records, you need every possible step/measurement/process to improve your cartridge + rifle pairing.
Way more important list
- Using quality components (good brass, bullets, powder, primers)
- Finding a good mix of components that works for your specific rifle
- Consistent powder throws
- Measuring OAL of cartridge based on your chamber+barrel
- Having consistent CBTO based on above measurement
- Use lube on necks when seating bullets
- Measuring bullet velocity using a solid chronograph
- Reducing ES and SD of handloads
- Finding a good powder node
- Annealing brass
- READING WIND
- KNOW HOW TO CALCULATE TRAJECTORY
- FUNDAMENTALS
Bear in mind that was for shafts and splined/bore gages with center drilled ends.
I agree with almost all you printed.
1. I would never use a neck lube. Not saying it does not work or help, I have just not trusted anyone enough that has told me it does.
2. Reducing numbers, I like tight numbers too, esp to show off. But if my rifle is grouping and holding tighter waterline at 1K, it becomes moot what the chrono says.
Going back to your first post, even with quality components, it still may pay to know just how uniform case capacities are, also never hurts to check a lot of bullets for base to ogive consistencies.
^^My first box of 500 Sierra 110 6mm bullets were all over the place, I had bought 6K of the same lot. I bought a bullet sorting tool for the long haul, where all that was needed was to open a new box and there has been no change in over 4500 of them.
Neck lube do/don’t thread in the near future.
People use neck lube to SEAT bullets? I've never heard of that. I would think that's inviting uneven/less-than-desired tension.
I only use the dry stuff when I'm messing with making wildcats. If I'm just reloading already formed brass I just FL with imperial and no neck lube. The one little jar of neck dust will most likely last me the rest of my life.
I only use the dry stuff when I'm messing with making wildcats. If I'm just reloading already formed brass I just FL with imperial and no neck lube. The one little jar of neck dust will most likely last me the rest of my life.
Regular lube on the neck will be forced down to the shoulder and end up making depressions in the shoulder because there is no place for it to go.
LOL, you are using it correctly, not saying it cannot have other uses.
I do not lube my necks when sizing, tip my cases upside down in a tray and spray lube. I guess if a guy had time, the Imperial neck lube on the outside of necks may be good ????
What if the lube is applied with godlike precision and concentricity?
https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/162-imperial-dry-neck-lube-convenience-pak
Brass fatigue or “work hardening” is well documented in the case of over sizing the diameter of the neck, and Redding Type-S Bushing Style Dies can extend case life. A secondary and less known stress to a case neck occurs from the friction imparted to the surfaces of the neck from both the sizer, be it standard or bushing and the expander button. A high quality neck lubricant like that found in the Imperial Convenience Pak reduces this “burnishing” effect from friction further improving life of the case neck through repeated reloadings.
Brass fatigue or “work hardening” is well documented in the case of over sizing the diameter of the neck, and Redding Type-S Bushing Style Dies can extend case life. A secondary and less known stress to a case neck occurs from the friction imparted to the surfaces of the neck from both the sizer, be it standard or bushing and the expander button. A high quality neck lubricant like that found in the Imperial Convenience Pak reduces this “burnishing” effect from friction further improving life of the case neck through repeated reloadings.
We anneal for this reason, "neck fatigue", I get that when I turn my head and watch some young hottie with a nice ass stroll by. I don't hang on to brass long enough for necks to go bad.
I was always under the impression you used the dust on the neck so no wet lube got into the case more than anything else. As I said, I don't generally neck size unless it is part of a process to make a wildcat, and that's when I do use the dust.
I anneal and also rarely split a neck. My primer pockets almost always give out first. I usually figure if it's a split neck something was wrong with that piece of brass.
I anneal and also rarely split a neck. My primer pockets almost always give out first. I usually figure if it's a split neck something was wrong with that piece of brass.
True, but that's not the main reason for the dry lube. Regular lubes like the wax type or the various sprays will end up damaging case shoulders when the case is fully inside the die because there is no place for it to go. The graphite lube won't do this.
I understand fully what you meant. I have used many types of lube over the yrs, many styles of applications also. I do know this, sometime before you ever get a hydraulic dent, you will see a buildup of excess lube on the case shoulder junction when a case comes out from the die, here is your chance to stick a qtip in and clean that area of the die.
I have formed an asston of 6SLR cases, you lube that area specifically, it is on you to not let it get away from you.
I had no idea Imperial neck lube was made for sizing, my bad, I've only heard of guys dipping bullets in it, or necks to aid seating bullets. But I'm still not buying any, lol
