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DPMS GII 308 rifles
- Thread starter Tx_Flyboy
- Start date
We have a bunch of G2 AP4s coming in which will form the basis of some custom configurations... 
Of course, other G2 models also inbound!
Of course, other G2 models also inbound!
I have the thread dimensions for the inner thread of the barrel nut, and it is unique. However the outer thread is the same as the outer thread on the DPMS AR-15 rifles, or the "standard" thread. So threaded handguards like those from Nordic, DPMS, and ours will be a direct replacement.
New G2 DPMS 308 SASS first day out. Serial #232
Since this thread is about the DPMS I figured I would put my post out there for others to see. I have never shot target, and honestly I have not shot a rifle but for about one year. Last deer season I had a cheap 308 and wanted something I could use to target shoot with and perhaps kill a deer with during deer season. I hunt on my own property. I have never even tried to shoot 100 yds and honestly I was pretty amazed at how far that actually is. I received the G2 today and could not wait to put 40 rounds down range. I purchased Nosler Trophy Ballistic tip Boat Tail 308 165 grain. I also shot a few other rounds I had laying around from last year. Nothing special , but winchester 308 boat tail. It took a few rounds just to get closely sighted in, I dont do this every day. I started out at 40 feet, worked my way to 120 feet , then 100 yards. I am a complete novice and the wind was blowing about 10mph with no certain speed. I thought this was pretty good and speaks highly of the gun that a complete amateur with no experience at 100 yards period could do this well on his first attempt with no coaching at all. the last 10 shots were in 20 seconds , last 10 rounds. for scale look at the staples. Not a single issue, no loading issues, no break in issues. Nothing but nice things to say. I am hooked.
Since this thread is about the DPMS I figured I would put my post out there for others to see. I have never shot target, and honestly I have not shot a rifle but for about one year. Last deer season I had a cheap 308 and wanted something I could use to target shoot with and perhaps kill a deer with during deer season. I hunt on my own property. I have never even tried to shoot 100 yds and honestly I was pretty amazed at how far that actually is. I received the G2 today and could not wait to put 40 rounds down range. I purchased Nosler Trophy Ballistic tip Boat Tail 308 165 grain. I also shot a few other rounds I had laying around from last year. Nothing special , but winchester 308 boat tail. It took a few rounds just to get closely sighted in, I dont do this every day. I started out at 40 feet, worked my way to 120 feet , then 100 yards. I am a complete novice and the wind was blowing about 10mph with no certain speed. I thought this was pretty good and speaks highly of the gun that a complete amateur with no experience at 100 yards period could do this well on his first attempt with no coaching at all. the last 10 shots were in 20 seconds , last 10 rounds. for scale look at the staples. Not a single issue, no loading issues, no break in issues. Nothing but nice things to say. I am hooked.
what is the price on the g2 sass and is there a glaring way to tell the difference by the outside of the reciever vs a gen1?
The gen2 receiver is noticeably shorter, and the lower receiver has a flared magwell and curved integral trigger guard, vs. a fairly straight magwell and flat integral trigger guard on the gen1.
I received my DPMS Gen 2 Recon from Dales Gun Shop in Marengo, Illinois a month ago. $1400.
I have had ZERO feeding, firing, and ejection issues going through 500 rounds of Lake City M80FMJ to date.
It is indeed very light for a .308 AR. I replaced the factory quad rail with a standard AR spec Nordic Components 13 inch free float tube and it fits just fine.
Wanting to tempt fate, I installed a standard AR style ALG/ACT trigger set along with the JPS3.5 spring set. 100 rounds of M80FMJ without an issue with that dinky spring set. Amazing.
My brother's SIG 716 has numerous feed and ejections problems with the same batch of ammo, and it weighs a couple pounds more than mine. And my brother claims that my Gen2 handles and recoils much closer in feel to his SIG 516.
The charging handle is unique in length, so I had to install a Badger tactical handle instead of going aftermarket. I went with a 3/32" tension pin in lieu of the factory AR spec 1/16" tension pin.
The monolithic bolt carrier group is just the cat's ass.
I have had ZERO feeding, firing, and ejection issues going through 500 rounds of Lake City M80FMJ to date.
It is indeed very light for a .308 AR. I replaced the factory quad rail with a standard AR spec Nordic Components 13 inch free float tube and it fits just fine.
Wanting to tempt fate, I installed a standard AR style ALG/ACT trigger set along with the JPS3.5 spring set. 100 rounds of M80FMJ without an issue with that dinky spring set. Amazing.
My brother's SIG 716 has numerous feed and ejections problems with the same batch of ammo, and it weighs a couple pounds more than mine. And my brother claims that my Gen2 handles and recoils much closer in feel to his SIG 516.
The charging handle is unique in length, so I had to install a Badger tactical handle instead of going aftermarket. I went with a 3/32" tension pin in lieu of the factory AR spec 1/16" tension pin.
The monolithic bolt carrier group is just the cat's ass.
I picked my G2 Hunter up from my FFL yesterday, after it was purchased from Bud's on 2/28 (it actually arrived this past Monday).
I mounted a Leupold fixed 10x on it for the time being, though it will get a Bushnell ERS soon enough. With the Leupold and ADM mount it is a svelt 9.6 lbs unloaded.
I went straight to the range with it despite winds gusting into the 20 mph range, blowing from 1030 to 430 across the range. I was quite pleased with initial groups, which I fired from a less than perfect array of sandbags. It was fairly well zero'd in three shots and then I ran a few 5 shot groups. I even included one 10 shot group for the purists, but I was only working with the 4 rd mag at the time or else I would've fired a couple more 10's. Today I fired 60 rounds of Federal GMM and a final group of Hornady 168 A-Max. Zero malfunctions were incurred.
I found the trigger to be very nice with a very slight bit of creep just before it breaks, a very clean break, and very little overtravel. I don't believe I'll be changing triggers.
I am very pleased with this rifle so far, especially having paid less than $1350 delivered. It feels amazing in hand, and definitely feels like an AR-15 as advertised, not blocky like the gen 1's and other 308 AR's I've handled.
More range reports to follow, in non tornado conditions.
The very first 5 rounds after zero:
10 Shot group in the bottom left:
I mounted a Leupold fixed 10x on it for the time being, though it will get a Bushnell ERS soon enough. With the Leupold and ADM mount it is a svelt 9.6 lbs unloaded.
I went straight to the range with it despite winds gusting into the 20 mph range, blowing from 1030 to 430 across the range. I was quite pleased with initial groups, which I fired from a less than perfect array of sandbags. It was fairly well zero'd in three shots and then I ran a few 5 shot groups. I even included one 10 shot group for the purists, but I was only working with the 4 rd mag at the time or else I would've fired a couple more 10's. Today I fired 60 rounds of Federal GMM and a final group of Hornady 168 A-Max. Zero malfunctions were incurred.
I found the trigger to be very nice with a very slight bit of creep just before it breaks, a very clean break, and very little overtravel. I don't believe I'll be changing triggers.
I am very pleased with this rifle so far, especially having paid less than $1350 delivered. It feels amazing in hand, and definitely feels like an AR-15 as advertised, not blocky like the gen 1's and other 308 AR's I've handled.
More range reports to follow, in non tornado conditions.
The very first 5 rounds after zero:
10 Shot group in the bottom left:
Guys, value for the dollar. Put a decent Vortex on the SASS, you're shooting a .308 for around $2500.
Shoots well enough, for someone on a very tight budget, better than NOT having a .308 rifle.
A deer or hog will never know the difference, and they are trying to address my biggest bitch about some current .308 rifles: they are fucking fatties.
Looks like it might be better than a couple other recently released .308s.
GL.
Shoots well enough, for someone on a very tight budget, better than NOT having a .308 rifle.
A deer or hog will never know the difference, and they are trying to address my biggest bitch about some current .308 rifles: they are fucking fatties.
Looks like it might be better than a couple other recently released .308s.
GL.
QUOTE=997/2man;3020618]
A deer or hog will never know the difference, and they are trying to address my biggest bitch about some current .308 rifles: they are fucking fatties.
GL.[/QUOTE]
Spot on. I did not feel comfortable hunting hogs in Arkansas or big white tails in Illinois with a 5.56. My brother's SIG 716 weighs 9.5 pounds empty. I was (and continue to be) skeptical about what IMHO are hybrid " band-aid" rounds like .300 or 6.5 or 6.8 in terms of future availability of ammo, brass, and bullets. The .308 is cheaper ammo to buy in bulk or reload than that stuff. I shoot quite a bit at the range, alternating between an Eotech XPS-2 and 1-6x 3-gun scope between trips. I'm leaning more towards keeping the 3 gun scope on the DPMS Gen 2 and saving the Eotech for a tactical shotgun or piston 5.56 SBR.
The JP .308 is a really good option and that was the way I was leaning, but when the new Gen 2 (lucky timing) I saw the could get the DPMS Gen 2 and spend $1K on a scope for that money.
A deer or hog will never know the difference, and they are trying to address my biggest bitch about some current .308 rifles: they are fucking fatties.
GL.[/QUOTE]
Spot on. I did not feel comfortable hunting hogs in Arkansas or big white tails in Illinois with a 5.56. My brother's SIG 716 weighs 9.5 pounds empty. I was (and continue to be) skeptical about what IMHO are hybrid " band-aid" rounds like .300 or 6.5 or 6.8 in terms of future availability of ammo, brass, and bullets. The .308 is cheaper ammo to buy in bulk or reload than that stuff. I shoot quite a bit at the range, alternating between an Eotech XPS-2 and 1-6x 3-gun scope between trips. I'm leaning more towards keeping the 3 gun scope on the DPMS Gen 2 and saving the Eotech for a tactical shotgun or piston 5.56 SBR.
The JP .308 is a really good option and that was the way I was leaning, but when the new Gen 2 (lucky timing) I saw the could get the DPMS Gen 2 and spend $1K on a scope for that money.
Will a Noveske 308 barrel with an Armalite barrel extension work with the new DPMS bolt/upper on the GII ?
Nope. Totally different bolt and barrel extension designs. The only things that are cross-compatible are fire control parts, stocks, gas tubes, gas blocks, and SR25 pattern magazines. Receivers, barrel nut, barrel, barrel extension, BCG, and charge handle are totally different than any other AR design on the market.
What's the weight of that total set-up? It looks just like an AR15, only with a 7.62x51 mag sticking out of it.
Crankbait, hope u didn't hunt deer in Illinois with a 5.56, especially since we don't have a rifle season.
I joined the forum after this thread and a few others like it actually lead me to purchase a G2 SASS about a month ago. It was my first semi-auto 308 and I can honestly say I am very pleased. The SASS rail is heavy and the PRS adds some weight, I wouldn't want to climb a mountain with it, but most of the hunting I do in SC is taking a four wheeler to a hog blind or deer stand. I have held G1 DPMS Rifles and my SASS is noticeably lighter. With 168 grain Federal Sierra Matchking BTHP the gun puts .4-.5 MOA groups. I took the stock grip off, the extended base on it is not really my thing, and I added a Vortex Viper to it. I have about 300 rounds through the rifle with no malfunctions or failures of any kind. My one complaint is the trigger. Heavier than what I was expecting after reading some guys experience with them, and mine does creep a little bit. May drop a CMC in mine when I save up some more pennies. I just want to be a resource if anyone has questions in the buying process, this forum was great for me as I went through mine.
Also my first time using tapatalk so I hope this makes it on the forum lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also my first time using tapatalk so I hope this makes it on the forum lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First time posting on Sniper's Hide. Just had to chime in.
I bought the Gen II SASS in the first week of March. I've fired it out to 720 yards so far with ease using 168gr SMK's. And even dropped a red dot on it and took off the bipod and ran it in the Heavy Metal division in a 3 Gun match. So far I'm nothing but impressed. I have about 300 rounds through it thus far without a single malfunction of any kind, and it's promising to easily be a sub-MoA rifle.
As some have mentioned, the barrel nut accommodates some 5.56 rails. In my case, like an above poster, I added a Nordic Components 15.5" rail to mine. The quad rail the SASS comes with weighed in at a hefty 23ozs. The Nordic rail I replaced it with weighs 11ozs. The could have trimmed some more fat off of it with a better rail selection. And of course, I simply unscrewed the existing quad rail, and screwed the 5.56 rail on in it's place. Last but not least I put a JP Precision muzzle brake on it. A must have for 3 Gun.
I also dolled it up some.
I bought the Gen II SASS in the first week of March. I've fired it out to 720 yards so far with ease using 168gr SMK's. And even dropped a red dot on it and took off the bipod and ran it in the Heavy Metal division in a 3 Gun match. So far I'm nothing but impressed. I have about 300 rounds through it thus far without a single malfunction of any kind, and it's promising to easily be a sub-MoA rifle.
As some have mentioned, the barrel nut accommodates some 5.56 rails. In my case, like an above poster, I added a Nordic Components 15.5" rail to mine. The quad rail the SASS comes with weighed in at a hefty 23ozs. The Nordic rail I replaced it with weighs 11ozs. The could have trimmed some more fat off of it with a better rail selection. And of course, I simply unscrewed the existing quad rail, and screwed the 5.56 rail on in it's place. Last but not least I put a JP Precision muzzle brake on it. A must have for 3 Gun.
I also dolled it up some.
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That brings up a point I've been meaning to ask... Does anyone know if any of the existing 5.56 keymod rails will bolt right up to the G2 barrel nut?
For those whoes looking for Keymod Rail Upgrades on the Gen II DPMS.
Midwest Industries: DPMS .308 GII Rifle Products
I saw that one but not really a fan. I was hoping someone could post up their experience of fitment from some of the other rails on the market that weren't designed with the G2 in mind. Curious which ones fit and which ones don't.
It's because these "Fit" on the Gen II upper but not a Direct Replacement like some of the other ones above which only require twisting off the factury unit and twisting on the new tube. These MI Keymod units requires a different Barrel Nut so you'll need to remove the factury one and put on the new Barrel Nut then install the new rail on.
I just order one of these for my G2, in the description they say it comes with an Barrel nut wrench. Is this the barrel nut wrench to remove the DPMS handguard?
I have the AP4 G2. PRI adjustable gas block has it REAL close to a stiff 5.56 round, recoil wise. My experience with the Armalite version of this rifle, is that there is too much barrel whip on these pencil barrel .308s for the handguard to have that small of an inside diameter, causing contact between the gas block and the handguard during firing. I came to this conclusion when I tried to use a rifle length Armalite aluminum FF handguard on the AR10A4 carbine. The I.D. is almost 1.9" on that handguard, and I had to relieve up to .250" of clearance before I stopped seeing marks from the gas block hammering the inside of the aluminum handguard. I believe that this M.I. product will suffer this shortcoming. The .308s need a larger inside diameter HG.
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The recon should be alright, it's got a heavy enough profile behind the gas block.
I once went to a course where I was issued a DPMS SASS rifle. I fired 262 rounds on that rifle at the course and went through 2 extractors. Many of the other students were going through multiple extractors as well at similar round counts. They were somewhat accurate rifles that I would never in my wildest dreams consider ready for any type of defensive use. That experience led me to the conclusion that DPMS rifles had some marginal components in the original configuration. So I would really be wary of the G2 rifle which we can clearly see in the pictures has a BCG with 1/2 the wall thickness of the standard carrier.
Excellent marketing, but I'm not holding my breath for actual superiority in the product line.
Other statements I've heard such as KAC's 10,000 round suggested bolt life cycle on the existing Sr25 bolt make me believe the Ar10/Sr-25 platforms were not overbuilt to begin with. Eugene Stoner built the 6.35lb 20" barrel equipped M16A1. Obviously he knew how to optimize a firearm for weight and durability and that was a project he undertook prior to the Sr-25 program.
Excellent marketing, but I'm not holding my breath for actual superiority in the product line.
Other statements I've heard such as KAC's 10,000 round suggested bolt life cycle on the existing Sr25 bolt make me believe the Ar10/Sr-25 platforms were not overbuilt to begin with. Eugene Stoner built the 6.35lb 20" barrel equipped M16A1. Obviously he knew how to optimize a firearm for weight and durability and that was a project he undertook prior to the Sr-25 program.
I agree with the above post.
If DPMS wants to do something innovative, tame your overgassed rifles. Use an intermediate gas system on your 16", rifle length on your 18" and extended rifle length on your 20"+ barrels.
The commercial receiver extensions, cheesy handguards, and mismatched gas system lengths is what keeps the GII a DPMS. Nothing new or exciting IMO, just another DPMS.
If DPMS wants to do something innovative, tame your overgassed rifles. Use an intermediate gas system on your 16", rifle length on your 18" and extended rifle length on your 20"+ barrels.
The commercial receiver extensions, cheesy handguards, and mismatched gas system lengths is what keeps the GII a DPMS. Nothing new or exciting IMO, just another DPMS.
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In my opinion there is nothing innovative or radically new about this.
If you look at what the aftermarket has done with the existing parts one can easily create a lighter 308 totally compatible with exiting lowers.
Fluted and lightened carriers, fluted and lightened upper recievers, flutes/cuts for the lowers, medium and light barrel profiles with proper gas
setup and patterns.
I have one of them to hunt in 7.6lbs dry and it can be made even lighter. The lowers can be lightened w/o compromising their structural integrity and preserving
all contact dimensions. If you look at the AR15performance upper the whole idea lightening the entire upper makes a lot more sense and if one wants to reuse the
smaller brother tubes /handguards that is not a huge thing for me anyway.
They all feel and shoot as the AR15 (except recoil) as they observe pretty similar external dimensions. Also assures compatibility with existing platforms including the ones already
in service.
I feel this is where DPMS or anyone should be concentrating right now as it is demonstrated to work and is becoming the standard and this way people would have more
lither parts assortment, more affordable and w/o having to send anything to a mill.
DPMS/Remigton and Bushmaster are all from the same group and they have been doing the spaghetti approach for a while, you know throw it to the wall and see
if sticks. We cannot blame it others are doing the same thing. But if they only listened to their enthusiasts and worked with them and the experts and shooting
community they would be having more successes.
If you look at what the aftermarket has done with the existing parts one can easily create a lighter 308 totally compatible with exiting lowers.
Fluted and lightened carriers, fluted and lightened upper recievers, flutes/cuts for the lowers, medium and light barrel profiles with proper gas
setup and patterns.
I have one of them to hunt in 7.6lbs dry and it can be made even lighter. The lowers can be lightened w/o compromising their structural integrity and preserving
all contact dimensions. If you look at the AR15performance upper the whole idea lightening the entire upper makes a lot more sense and if one wants to reuse the
smaller brother tubes /handguards that is not a huge thing for me anyway.
They all feel and shoot as the AR15 (except recoil) as they observe pretty similar external dimensions. Also assures compatibility with existing platforms including the ones already
in service.
I feel this is where DPMS or anyone should be concentrating right now as it is demonstrated to work and is becoming the standard and this way people would have more
lither parts assortment, more affordable and w/o having to send anything to a mill.
DPMS/Remigton and Bushmaster are all from the same group and they have been doing the spaghetti approach for a while, you know throw it to the wall and see
if sticks. We cannot blame it others are doing the same thing. But if they only listened to their enthusiasts and worked with them and the experts and shooting
community they would be having more successes.
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In my opinion there is nothing innovative or radically new about this.
If you look at what the aftermarket has done with the existing parts one can easily create a lighter 308 totally compatible with exiting lowers.
Fluted and lightened carriers, fluted and lightened upper recievers, flutes/cuts for the lowers, medium and light barrel profiles with proper gas
setup and patterns.
I have one of them to hunt in 7.6lbs dry and it can be made even lighter. The lowers can be lightened w/o compromising their structural integrity and preserving
all contact dimensions. If you look at the AR15performance upper the whole idea lightening the entire upper makes a lot more sense and if one wants to reuse the
smaller brother tubes /handguards that is not a huge thing for me anyway.
They all feel and shoot as the AR15 (except recoil) as they observe pretty similar external dimensions. Also assures compatibility with existing platforms including the ones already
in service.
I feel this is where DPMS or anyone should be concentrating right now as it is demonstrated to work and is becoming the standard and this way people would have more
lither parts assortment, more affordable and w/o having to send anything to a mill.
DPMS/Remigton and Bushmaster are all from the same group and they have been doing the spaghetti approach for a while, you know throw it to the wall and see
if sticks. We cannot blame it others are doing the same thing. But if they only listened to their enthusiasts and worked with them and the experts and shooting
community they would be having more successes.
The stuff you listed that can be done by us to shave weight comes at a price. The stuff that we can't do nobody else is doing so.... that's why there is a market for GII's and they're selling so many of them. Continuing to match your parts to other pre-existing parts only goes so far until it's apparent that an overhaul is necessary to move forward which is where DPMS decided they were. The market will tell if it was a wise move or not and so far it seems as though those in the market are speaking with their wallets. I'm tired of paying 2x more and then needing to drop another 2x more in mods to get it where it should be out of the box. You talk about what 'could' and 'can' be done but nobody else is other than owners so this is a nice option for those looking for what it offers and don't mind being an early adopter of a somewhat new platform that only has partial backwards compatibility. The only real compatibility issues appears to be if you want to make their lower to a different upper but that is also readily prevalent in the segment anyway. So, just like all of the other options available.. choose wisely so you keep your uppers/lowers compatible. The difference is this system gives even MORE compatibility with the more popular AR15 platforms than the previous iterations.
If someone doesn't have any 308 they might choose to go this proprietary system but if if the decision is made based on weight alone it is not necessary, there are options.
But if someone wants to remain compatible with their current knights / dpms standard (including current service rifles) then one can choose to build a pretty light rifle.
The ARP performance is a better idea IMO and compatible with existing lowers and lightened uppers are compatible with the existing AR15 tubes.
I am sure this new system is just fine nothing wrong but also the opportunity is there for others to get lighter parts and make some more affordable lighter systems.
Still the prices are not that bad depending on expectations and what one wants to achieve. One will not spend a lot more in the 308s than in a quality smaller AR15.
But if someone wants to remain compatible with their current knights / dpms standard (including current service rifles) then one can choose to build a pretty light rifle.
The ARP performance is a better idea IMO and compatible with existing lowers and lightened uppers are compatible with the existing AR15 tubes.
I am sure this new system is just fine nothing wrong but also the opportunity is there for others to get lighter parts and make some more affordable lighter systems.
Still the prices are not that bad depending on expectations and what one wants to achieve. One will not spend a lot more in the 308s than in a quality smaller AR15.
Just about anybody's AR-15 free float barrel will fit the DPMS Gen 2. The gas block and tube are very compact and low profile. I went with a 13" Nordic tube because I prefer the 3-gun style grip, but the stock quad rail looks like YHM to me. The receiver set is slightly longer than standard AR, but definitely shorter than the large frame .308's on the market. The fire control group, buttstock , and all furniture are standard AR. The BCG is a monolithic billet design - no separate gas key. The extractor spring is polymer and there are TWO ejector spring/pin assemblies. There are three gas rings. It will feed and extract all day long without an issue provided you stay away from the Magpul Gen 3 PMAGS. The SIG 716 and the Ruger 762 don't like those mags either.
Everyone that handles mine says that it feels light and compact and very much like their AR-15, and the felt recoil is less than most are expecting.
Given that I paid $1400 for my Gen2 Recon, I am very pleased. The only bummer is the unique length of the charging handle ( shorter than other 7.62's) - so I put a Badger tactical latch on it when I went from the Eotech EXPS-2 to the Leupold VX-6 1-6x Firedot illuminated CDS.
I have no faith in putting all that offset pressure on a 1/16" roll pin. I offset milled the charging handle and Badger tactical latch for a 3/32" roll pin. I would love to put a BCM or Raptor charging handle on it. Only complaint.
It is certainly a marked improvement IMHO in terms of size and weight and standard AR parts compatibility over anything else in the AR .308 class AFAIK. There was a great deal of R&D done to optimize feed and extraction.
Everyone that handles mine says that it feels light and compact and very much like their AR-15, and the felt recoil is less than most are expecting.
Given that I paid $1400 for my Gen2 Recon, I am very pleased. The only bummer is the unique length of the charging handle ( shorter than other 7.62's) - so I put a Badger tactical latch on it when I went from the Eotech EXPS-2 to the Leupold VX-6 1-6x Firedot illuminated CDS.
I have no faith in putting all that offset pressure on a 1/16" roll pin. I offset milled the charging handle and Badger tactical latch for a 3/32" roll pin. I would love to put a BCM or Raptor charging handle on it. Only complaint.
It is certainly a marked improvement IMHO in terms of size and weight and standard AR parts compatibility over anything else in the AR .308 class AFAIK. There was a great deal of R&D done to optimize feed and extraction.
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Crankbait....
When you replaced your HG to the Nordic one on your RECON, did you see if the factory barrel nut had the slot/notches in it to except the anti-rotation screws on after market YHM HG's?
When you replaced your HG to the Nordic one on your RECON, did you see if the factory barrel nut had the slot/notches in it to except the anti-rotation screws on after market YHM HG's?
So, to my point, ALL 308 AR systems are proprietary. There is no one single standard like the AR15 platform so that is a null point.
Every option you suggest one do to one of the previous 308 AR platforms can ALSO be done to the GII making it even lighter still. Not really an apples to apples comparison especially since those lightweight mods cost money.
In the end your primary detractor seems to be compatibility with existing systems if I read accurately what you're saying when backwards compatibility to the most common AR platforms (read: AR15) is actually one of the primary selling points of this system.
I upgraded the pistol grip (BCM) (I like thinner and more vertical), buttstock (CTR - no wobbles), went ambi safety, and put in the ALG/ACT trigger group with JP 3.5# spring set - all out of the standard AR parts section of the Brownell's catalog. The free float tube I put on is a very narrow Standard AR spec piece.
That I did not notice. I can tell you that I simply swapped out free float tubes, left the DPMS receiver damned well alone, used a standard AR-15 barrel nut, and the standard AR-15 barrel nut tool worked fine. Used a micro- torch to heat it up a bit as the factory used red loctite. I would email DPMS tech support through their website and ask - they will get back to you within 24 hours. The factory quad rail did not have those screws you mentioned.
The current knights/dpms system is pretty popular and currently in service in both US troops and overseas/NATO.
Personally I like a system that is backwards compatible with this and my other 308 based lowers and uppers.
We know the system can be built light too and accurate compatible with existing lowers and uppers that come in many flavors. As true innovation companies grow like ARP they are including the lighter uppers with rails compatible with the AR15.
So I am not sure where there is a substantial advantage in yet another new system other than DPMS saying, hey! this is the new standard.
Anyone can say that. Only time will tell if a standard can be established based on the demand.
At the moment the current knights and DPMS is there in service and continues to grow and sell pretty well.
DPMS is making a new bet that is ok too. In the end this is a free country and there is a taste and a client for everything.
Pretty popular does not a standard make.
Also, it should be noted that within that 'pattern' of rifles some uppers & lowers aren't fully compatible and therefore it's tough to fully support any one as the standard when it's not even standard within it's own pattern. Everyone thinking they needed their own standard or pattern & refusing to adopt a previous pattern has served only to leave that door wide open and DPMS has thrown their hat in the ring and if they've done it right, this WILL be the new standard. Until then it's just another pattern that's even more compatible w/parts & accessories than existing patterns and in addition just happens to be lighter and less expensive. Not sure what there isn't to like about that. Just because US troops use something overseas doesn't mean squat to my buying decisions for various uses. We all know that just because it's in use by US Troops doesn't mean it's the best option hands down. Meets a need at a given bulk price is about all it says usually.
I don't have a crystal ball so I cannot see the future as others might.
At the moment I have lots invested in the current service platform and will continue to invest because there is no substantial benefit of any kind by moving away from it.
Others here shooting for fun or the leagues are in the very same boat. I am planning to get one of those ARP uppers with AR15 rails and I am not sure how much that will
save weight wise since the light versions are pretty light already.
Stocks, Gas blocks, triggers, springs, buffers I am using the same and a pivot pin is not a justification to throw everything else away. In the end the upper is dedicated
to that upper unit given receiver and shank until time to re-barrel.
I have to say I have the advantage of having a lathe and a mill and access to other folks that can also shave things, tune up and whatever is needed.
When I put this in the scale in the end of the day I think it is pretty decent given all options and circumstances.
And the US troops do not have the best system. The Brits and a few others do and it is also a knights baseline with lots of improvements and utterly reliable.
Anyway I didn't mean to derail this otherwise nice thread. I just wanted to give my personal view on the alternatives as others did before.
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Standard AR barrel nut and threading.
Very compact receiver - standard AR fire control and furniture fore and aft of the receiver
Very skinny Nordic standard AR 13" free float tube foregrip
I love this scope: Leupold VX-6 1-6x Firedot Illuminated Reticle. Helluva value for $900 and it's made in USA. At 1x I think I prefer it to my Eotech in fact.
Very compact receiver - standard AR fire control and furniture fore and aft of the receiver
Very skinny Nordic standard AR 13" free float tube foregrip
I love this scope: Leupold VX-6 1-6x Firedot Illuminated Reticle. Helluva value for $900 and it's made in USA. At 1x I think I prefer it to my Eotech in fact.
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My Gen 2 Recon lists for $1795 and I ordered it from a Northern Iilinois dealer for $1400. Took him a week to get it in. I figured a heavy 416SS 16" match grade barrel and a JP .308 BCG would set me back a grand - so in my own mind there wasn't much downside financially just in the parts count.
Audrey Shooting - YouTube
Here is a YouTube link to a clip of my dainty, petite, 5'6" Southern sister-in-law shooting my DPMS Gen2 with the Eotech EXPS-2. The guy laughing his ass off in the background is my brother Steve - who owns a SIG 762. When he first picked up my Gen2 he honestly thought it was a .223.
Here is a YouTube link to a clip of my dainty, petite, 5'6" Southern sister-in-law shooting my DPMS Gen2 with the Eotech EXPS-2. The guy laughing his ass off in the background is my brother Steve - who owns a SIG 762. When he first picked up my Gen2 he honestly thought it was a .223.
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