DT or AI for LE
- Thread starter B4forever
- Start date
Yeah he’s comparing the SRS to the AXMC
again there’s nothing wrong with a SRS. I’m more accurate with my SRS than I ever was with my AI or a R700 with a aics chassis but over the years, I’ve felt that the SRS is just not as rugged, especially the magazine and the mag well design. Remember, the magwell on a SRS is mostly 2 plastic skins bolted together, it could get loose over time and if left unchecked and cause the mag to drop due to recoil. It’s also a pain to single round feed and if you have huge humongous hands like I do, when you fire a magnum, the back of your hand will hit the magazine which is quite unpleasant.
again there’s nothing wrong with a SRS. I’m more accurate with my SRS than I ever was with my AI or a R700 with a aics chassis but over the years, I’ve felt that the SRS is just not as rugged, especially the magazine and the mag well design. Remember, the magwell on a SRS is mostly 2 plastic skins bolted together, it could get loose over time and if left unchecked and cause the mag to drop due to recoil. It’s also a pain to single round feed and if you have huge humongous hands like I do, when you fire a magnum, the back of your hand will hit the magazine which is quite unpleasant.
The cost difference is really deceptive as while the guns themselves are about twice the cost the barrels for the AXMC are about half the cost of the SRS. The AXMC is also much higher quality with much, much better magazines.
Buying a new barrel outright is more money for sure. You take the old barrel extension and reuse on new barrel, price is the same. And the barrel extension isn't really a wear item so it will last. Downside is off the shelf availability.
Completely agree on build quality and mag system. The SRS is screwed together with like 15 screws and nuts that look like they were bulk purchased at Home Depot.
Hi,
Question(s) for those that recommend the DTA for LE work gun....
What happens when A) Your right handed shooter is forced to shoot weak side?. B) You have a left handed sniper that draws the callout that day?
Can you seriously testify in court that you maintained visual confirmation of the hostage situation IF (Hoping you never do) you need to cycle the rifle for immediate follow up shot?
Sincerely,
Theis
Question(s) for those that recommend the DTA for LE work gun....
What happens when A) Your right handed shooter is forced to shoot weak side?. B) You have a left handed sniper that draws the callout that day?
Can you seriously testify in court that you maintained visual confirmation of the hostage situation IF (Hoping you never do) you need to cycle the rifle for immediate follow up shot?
Sincerely,
Theis
That was my point exactly when I initially stated why I would never deploy with a DT in a LE capacity. and choose AI hands down.
Speaking of reliability. Is there one action that would be CRF and AW compatible that would be just as reliable as an AI. I know the TL3 can come with the AW cut but that doesn’t necessarily means they’re as bombproof reliable as the AIs.
I ran an AI Ae mk1 for 6 years before switching to an AT for 2 years and had zero complaints for LE/SWAT applications. Recently started shooting a H&H precision rifle and love it.
I have shot the the DT but was not a fan of the ergonomics of the bull pup design for a bolt gun.
Just my 2 cents.
I have shot the the DT but was not a fan of the ergonomics of the bull pup design for a bolt gun.
Just my 2 cents.
The AI's are more professional and probably reliable than the SRS, and their mags are built better, however as great as the AI mags are, they are too short for a properly seated (not SIP/SAMMI) 300 grain 338 Lapua!
I do believe the SRS barrel mounting is superior, and much like a barrel block mount of a bench rest gun, very stable. I Don't know about AI's support, but DTA is not very good at it, very frustrating! I do love my SRS though, compact, 1/4 moa, easy barrel / caliber changes!
I do believe the SRS barrel mounting is superior, and much like a barrel block mount of a bench rest gun, very stable. I Don't know about AI's support, but DTA is not very good at it, very frustrating! I do love my SRS though, compact, 1/4 moa, easy barrel / caliber changes!
Please elaborate as to what you would think a "properly" seated 300gr should be?
The CIP (what the heck is SIP?) production spec is already longer than SAAMI (what the heck is SAMMI?).
Accuracy International very likely gives zero F's if a handful of reloaders want a longer mag to experiment with.
Between the crew at Mile High and EuroOptic, Accuracy International has excellent support for their products within the U.S.
./
You know it all, so why ask me? But you did, so.
The 338 Lapua was designed for a 250 grain projectile, and was standardized shorter than the optimum length for the later 300 grain projectiles. You certainly understand the 300 grain projectiles have higher bc's, but must be pushed farther into the case, if magazines and throats don't allow for this extra length. This causes a lost of case capacity that further slows the heavier bullet down so the gain in bc is offset by lower velocity. When there is the ability to push the bullet out and maximize case capacity you get more velocity and range, simple. Except, the Lapua was standardized too short to get the maximum out of the 300 grain bullets. You are right about AI not caring about me, they want government contracts. The 338 Lapua has been left behind by most of them for lesser cartridges with less recoil and performance. I like the AI mags, but I would like them to be as long as my stupid simple DT mags so I can make the Lapua perform the way it should with the 300 grain Bergers!
The 338 Lapua was designed for a 250 grain projectile, and was standardized shorter than the optimum length for the later 300 grain projectiles. You certainly understand the 300 grain projectiles have higher bc's, but must be pushed farther into the case, if magazines and throats don't allow for this extra length. This causes a lost of case capacity that further slows the heavier bullet down so the gain in bc is offset by lower velocity. When there is the ability to push the bullet out and maximize case capacity you get more velocity and range, simple. Except, the Lapua was standardized too short to get the maximum out of the 300 grain bullets. You are right about AI not caring about me, they want government contracts. The 338 Lapua has been left behind by most of them for lesser cartridges with less recoil and performance. I like the AI mags, but I would like them to be as long as my stupid simple DT mags so I can make the Lapua perform the way it should with the 300 grain Bergers!
You need to give KMW serious consideration. We’ve had very good success and reliability.
I owned a DTA. My teammate for team competitions named it Dont Take Anywhere.
I mean, if you don't mind the factory bandaid firing pin bushing falling out. Or having to remove the bolt and recompress springs. And things going click instead of bang. One time, I looked in the dirt below my firing position and saw a DTA firing pin. I had secured a spare because I heard they were breaking.
I sold it and bought an AI. The AI is worlds better. I regret the time and money wasted with the DTA, their marginal customer service, everything across the board.
Most of these issues got fixed in like the 13th recall on the second generation of the rifle. But I paid over $4-5k to be a beta tester. It sucked.
I mean, if you don't mind the factory bandaid firing pin bushing falling out. Or having to remove the bolt and recompress springs. And things going click instead of bang. One time, I looked in the dirt below my firing position and saw a DTA firing pin. I had secured a spare because I heard they were breaking.
I sold it and bought an AI. The AI is worlds better. I regret the time and money wasted with the DTA, their marginal customer service, everything across the board.
Most of these issues got fixed in like the 13th recall on the second generation of the rifle. But I paid over $4-5k to be a beta tester. It sucked.
Or you can just switch to a more superior round in the 300NM.
Hi,
You certainly understand that there are lighter weight projectiles with better BC than those 300gr 338cal projectiles right?
So why take the reduction in MV and a reduction in BC value of going to those 300gr 338s?
The 338LM case itself was NEVER intended to use 300gr+ weight class projectiles....it just wasn't.
And just so nobody has to go searching for the numbers:
Berger OTM 300gr 338cal has G1 of .82
Badlands 265gr 338cal has G1 of .89
Badlands 285gr 338cal has G1 of 1.001
PVA 338cal has G1 right in line and/or slightly better than those.
Flatlines 256gr 338cal has G1 of .862
Flatlines 285gr 338cal has G1 of .968
Sincerely,
Theis
You do know, of course, that the .338 Norma was designed specifically to address the heavier bullets.
Hi,
And you can use that 338 in an AT-LE as the original poster listed that specific rifle in his discussion?
Sincerely,
Theis
Didn’t you have a old one though ? I think most of those issues are non existent in the A1 and newer ?
Some police depts have MRAPs and 50cals. 338 is child's play
www.officer.com
www.marketplace.org
SWAT Utilization of the Large Caliber Rifle
SWAT teams in the United States and Canada continue to acquire large caliber rifles to combat vehicular threats that may arise out of conventional SWAT operations or domestic ...
www.officer.com
How police departments got billions of dollars of tactical military equipment - Marketplace
The program that sends surplus weapons to local law enforcement has drawn criticism in the wake of nationwide protests against police brutality.
www.marketplace.org
Yep. Stored right with all the black, whisper-mode helicopters, right?
.338 and bigger guns don’t have any application in a normal LE sniper role. I know someone will throw out the “stopping vehicles” argument…. Ridiculous.
Whose deadly force policy allows for firing a weapon solely to stop a vehicle???? DOJ’s doesn’t.
You don’t need a .338 or .50 to shoot through a windshield.
FBI’S 20MM HARD-TARGET BLASTERS
Emerging threats in the Global War on Terror are likely to include those that are harder, and those that must
www.tactical-life.com
Are you dense?
And who are you to decide what LE needs to complete their mission. If you haven’t done it you don’t know what it takes and how hard their day is
Don’t think everything you read on the internet is accurate. HRT isn’t going down-range anymore. And BRF buys all kinds of whacky shit for research purposes.
Those rifles do not exist in the Field SWAT program of the FBI.
Those rifles do not exist in the Field SWAT program of the FBI.
Hi,
LOLOL Did you seriously cite Tactical Life as your information source?
Safe to assume you have not been around many 20mm shoulder fired weapon systems right?
Because there is ZERO chance that any of them are accurate enough for 4900 yards.
The worlds utmost authority on "precision" 20mm shoulder fired systems...Truvelo Armory and Denel Land Systems list the effective range at 1800m and this was proven decade ago by NSW Crane's "Reutilization of 20mm ammunition" research and testing project.
No way that enlarged pipe gun from Anzio is able to take the same ammunition and add 3000 yards to it, lolol
Sincerely,
Theis
LOLOL Did you seriously cite Tactical Life as your information source?
Safe to assume you have not been around many 20mm shoulder fired weapon systems right?
Because there is ZERO chance that any of them are accurate enough for 4900 yards.
The worlds utmost authority on "precision" 20mm shoulder fired systems...Truvelo Armory and Denel Land Systems list the effective range at 1800m and this was proven decade ago by NSW Crane's "Reutilization of 20mm ammunition" research and testing project.
No way that enlarged pipe gun from Anzio is able to take the same ammunition and add 3000 yards to it, lolol
Sincerely,
Theis
I said nothing about range. I said the FBI bought 20mms
what do you even know about LE weapon systems. Or rifle capability and manufacturing ??
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Just about knows everything regarding that topic.
Dude has no idea who he’s talking to, in several instances.
This place is just like arfcom. Full of blowhards bloviating about stuff like their experts when in reality they are just experts at Call Of Duty and Cheetos
at least there’s less cop haters here.
at least there’s less cop haters here.
To a certain degree, you are correct in this statement. With a gazillion visitors and members, you are going to get some of that.
However....in addition to those you so eloquently described above, there are also SMEs and people with A LOT of real world experience that walk through here from time to time. Now for real, they may be here to troll or start shit or just get a laugh during a break at work but they also collectively have a metric shit ton of relevant information to share and sometimes do share.
This forum is a unique environment that has a lot of resources available if you are patient and at least sort of pretend to not be a dick.
I don't know shit but I would encourage you to accumulate more reading and listening time in these sub-forums. This should be an enlightening experience for you in that you will slowly (probably very fucking slowly) start to learn the legitimacy of certain names here.
Apologies in advance to @B4forever as this post and my previous two have zero to do with your original inquiry.
./
I do occasionally partake of cheetos but I really like hot fries.
In regards to cop haters, there are several epic threads here bashing LE.
Someone told me those people and the industry people mostly left and been replaced by Arfugees
Lol sure.
what’d you say about people’s rifles they all need to move the scope back 1/2”and remove 1/2” from LOP?
that was helpful advice fir me. Glad some people like you are still here
Sounds interesting; I’ll read about it.
I can tell you for sure that I cannot fire on a vehicle for the purposes of disabling/stopping the vehicle. Even if I was lugging a .50cal, that round must go through the windshield, fired at the driver.
