Sidearms & Scatterguns Duty pistol, could use some advice

#52
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mackay Sagebrush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mackay Sagebrush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Many of the posters above probably are in fact officers, some, likely are not. Would you want to take advice on what open class IPSC pistol to buy from a guy who has no experience shooting IPSC? </div></div>

I'd be reluctant to take advice from anyone who uses this as a hypothetical, since there is indeed no such thing as "Open class IPSC." </div></div>

Open class USPSA.

Since we are talking here in the U.S. where IPSC and USPSA are pretty much one and the same, I sure am glad you pointed that out there genius..

</div></div>

There is no such thing as "Open class USPSA" either.

Classes in USPSA are D, C, B, A, Master, and Grandmaster.

Like I said, I'd be very reluctant to take any advice from someone who obviously has no idea what he's talking about.

IPSC matches occur throughout the world, including the U.S., so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, other than to shove your foot further into your mouth.

Nor can I make any connection to the title, which is about duty weapons. </div></div>

yeah theres no point in brining up anything to do with competition guns as they are usually not suited as a duty pistol. but i think the class your reffering to is the ranking in each claass.. not sure what the correct wording is for them but theres classes and then theres ranking in those classes... for example i shot production class... and i was not ranked because i didnt shoot often enough. but had i shot often enough i could have been say a B rank in production class.

but again... Duty pistols and competition pistols dont overlap unless your shooting production class then maybe youve got a gun worthy of being a duty pistol. but even some guns in that class arent suited to be a duty pistol.
 
#53
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

There are divisions and there are classes. They are not the same thing and you obviously don't know the difference. There are no "rankings." Production is not a class; it's a division.

There are several divisions that use guns that would make perfectly fine duty firearms, but I'd begin with what is authorized and recommend from there, not the other way around.

I prefer single action to all else, but many departments won't allow a single action and thus one would have to begin elsewhere if the requirements are as such.
 
#55
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are divisions and there are classes. They are not the same thing and you obviously don't know the difference. There are no "rankings." Production is not a class; it's a division.

There are several divisions that use guns that would make perfectly fine duty firearms, but I'd begin with what is authorized and recommend from there, not the other way around.

I prefer single action to all else, but many departments won't allow a single action and thus one would have to begin elsewhere if the requirements are as such. </div></div>

right thats why i said im not sure of the exact terms. offer up the correct terms if you know them rather then bait the trap and wait for some one using the wrong term to say yes there is so and so. you know what is meant so just correct it. Division, Class... dont be a prick...
 
#56
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


-Springfield XDM - <span style="color: #FF0000">I've never seen these used for a duty gun. I personally like how they shoot, but holster options will be more limited from my observations.</span>

-SigSauer P220 - <span style="color: #FF0000">A fine firearm. Limited round count compared to the others here(8+1) Probably the priciest of the bunch too. Has the DA/SA which could be weird for you.</span>

-HK USP - <span style="color: #FF0000">I'm *personally* not a fan of HK, bu only because I think they feel weird. AWESOME guns, but just don't fit me.</span>

-FNP USG or FNX - <span style="color: #FF0000">FN has a nice smooth trigger for a DA/SA. Holster options will be extremely limited on this variety as well.</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Any of the name brands will be all the attributes you describe below. Glock, S&W MP series are also great contenders and have a fantastic array of holsters, accessories, etc.</span>

Looking for something very accurate, reliable, durable and wont completely break the bank. (will pay for quality, but I dont need a 1600 side arm!)

<span style="color: #FF0000">Best of luck!!!</span> </div></div>
 
#57
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are divisions and there are classes. They are not the same thing and you obviously don't know the difference. There are no "rankings." Production is not a class; it's a division.

There are several divisions that use guns that would make perfectly fine duty firearms, but I'd begin with what is authorized and recommend from there, not the other way around.

I prefer single action to all else, but many departments won't allow a single action and thus one would have to begin elsewhere if the requirements are as such. </div></div>

right thats why i said im not sure of the exact terms. offer up the correct terms if you know them rather then bait the trap and wait for some one using the wrong term to say yes there is so and so. you know what is meant so just correct it. Division, Class... dont be a prick... </div></div>

It's not about being a "prick." It is about demonstrating that advice from someone with ignorance about the most basic elements of the rules is probably not a reliable source.
 
#58
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I've come to the conclusion that the Glock 17 or 21 are the perfect LE sidearm options. Reliability, durability, weight, shootability and capacity are all combined into the perfect package in those guns. The 31 and 22 are also acceptable if you desire/require the .357 or .40. The only other guns I would even consider are the M&P, HK45/P2000/P30 or Sig P226. And those are distant seconds (and I carry a P226, I don't get to choose).
 
#59
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

Duty use = Glock

Reliability, durability & capacity.

Glock is the perfect combat handgun period!

I too was caught up in the glamor of the 1911 before I realized what was truly important to me. I wanted something that worked all the time regardless of the situation. I wanted something that was durable and simple. I wanted something with good accuracy. I want back to the Glock that I traded for a fancy 1911. After all the years of carrying that dangerous 1911, I returned to what mattered the most.

Don't be fooled by fools.
 
#60
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

Glock for duty use. It has the simplest controls, extreme reliability and lots of varieties to fit your hand size. In any stressful situation you fall to your lowest level of training and brain function. Glock = point and shoot. Its the modern revolver in some sense. Glocks are not the best guns ever made, they are however the best pistols ever made for LE and Combat.
 
#61
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

Here's my advice. Since you are just starting out, Prioritize.
Find out what pistol/calibers your department will allow you to use. Some are very limited, others less so. Until you know this, don't even start looking
Budget. Realize that a duty pistol is a system, just like an LR rifle system. You will need duty holsters, off-duty holsters, night sights, lights, 2 sets of magazines, pouches etc to go with it. As an officer, I recommend having 2 of the same gun, but wait til after the academy to buy another. If you pick a 'sexy' gun like an HK, plan on paying double or triple for magazines, and having to special order (and wait for)things like duty holsters and night sights.

For a long time, I was one of the 'anti-glock' gun snobs, (I carried an HK USP 45 for years). I got tired of not being able to find or afford HK 45 mags, ($75 each! if you could find 'em)I converted to a G35 because Glocks work, they always work, and you can always find mags, sights, holsters, and everything else you need. As a company, they bend over backwards to support the LE market, and give a nice LE discount. Once you're an officer, you will really appreciate that.

My recommendation is a Glock 35 (.40) long slide. In high stress SHTF situations, the extra sight radius really helps accuracy, and the extra length is not really noticeable. If your dept says no to the long one, a G22 full size is a great choice too. Pack a G27 as a back-up/off duty which can use the same mags and ammo. I love my HKs, and I still shoot IDPA with 'em, but my G35 is just better for a duty tool, IMO.

I would also say do not choose a 1911 as your first duty pistol. As a new officer, you should simplify your life as much as possible. If you have to have a 1911, wait a year or two until you get the job figured out before you transition.

Just my .02
 
#63
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I've carried a Glock 31, HK USP .40, and an HK45. I run the Glock just fine but have to break my grip to release the magazine. I think if you're considering a USP you should also look at the P30 or an HK45, extremely reliable and much updated ergonomics over the USP. In the HK world for duty use you should also consider the LEM trigger. Its easy to master and one of my favorite carry setup. Cons with HK are buying magazines...but I have a hard time going back after falling in love with their system. Once again I can run a Glock pretty well but I have better all around luck with the HK. Checkout www.pistol-training.com for some good reads on the M&P, HK P30, HK45, and the latest gen Glock.
smile.gif


On edit: HK45 magazines are about $46...yeah more expensive than Glock but not $75 either. Checkout CDNN or other sites...I haven't even paid $75 for the 16rd Jetfunnel .40 mags...
 
#64
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

7STW, The USP 45 mags were 75-80 bucks if you could find them, about 5 yrs ago. They are steel and cost more than the 9 and 40 mags. I have plenty now, so I haven't shopped them in a while. My point was that the entire Glock system is just easier to deal with than HK, in my experience.

I am not an HK hater. Like you, I prefer the HK mag release, and I own several and really like shooting HKs. For a new cop (like the OP), I would go with the evil G brand though.
 
#65
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

The trigger reset is more consistent on the DAO striker fired type pistols,compared to DAO/SAO and in my experience easier to master. Glock seems to be the right choice, as there are numerous holster options, and the availability of parts are pretty incomparable. I would say master the Glock and once you have the experience running the gun, decide what is right for you. I have carried Sigs, 1911's, etc, and though I love these guns, the Glock or the M&P is what I will always recommend for new pistol shooters, especially when carried on duty.
 
#66
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

Unfortunately itll be what hes stated he didnt want.... Glock. I know you stated you didnt care for them, but theres a reason that LEOs carry Glock more than any other.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at what other officers in the department are carrying, it would be really bad to be in a fire fight and need a mag or another in need and have to unload then load. </div></div>
 
#68
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

What jackdaniels said. For new officers, get a Glock as your first duty gun. You will have so much going on, and so much to learn, it will really help you to have a trouble free weapon system to start out. If you want to try other things later, fine, but make it as easy on yourself as you can.
 
#69
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

My department is Glock 22 for duty and personal choice off duty. I personally am not a huge Glock fan... If we had a personal choice for carry I would carry my Sig. It fits my hand better, more manageable, much brighter night sights, and more accurate for me. I would simply have more confidence if things went to hell in a hand-basket.. which is why I carry it off duty over my Glock.

The other big beef on the Glock is that the dang mag release is so stiff I have to rotate my hand to get a good push on it.

And that's really what it comes down to... gotta shoot a good variety of viable weapons and choose what fits you best. That includes caliber. Some guys swear by 'bigger is better' but if you can't hit crap with it, then a 45 or 10auto isn't going to do squat for you.
 
#70
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I carry a glock 31 in .357 sig. I love the round, and the gun. My only complaints are about the extreme cost of .357 sig, and it is not easy to load in a pinch if you had too so carry lots of mags. Glock provides a tool to help push the butts of the rounds down when loading, but I hate to think what would happen under pressure and without the assistance of the tool.
 
#71
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I started my LEO life with a Glock but have since changed. I now own 2 S&W M&Ps, one in 9 and one in 45. Glocks are the most bank for your buck, the M&Ps are coming on strong, Sigs are good guns but their QC has dropped some, don't care much for the XDs and the HKs are pretty solid but boxy. You can't go wrong with a 9mm don't get caught up in the 45 is better club. Shot placement is everything.

k9g
 
#72
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately itll be what hes stated he didnt want.... Glock. I know you stated you didnt care for them, but theres a reason that LEOs carry Glock more than any other.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at what other officers in the department are carrying, it would be really bad to be in a fire fight and need a mag or another in need and have to unload then load. </div></div> </div></div>

I think that reason has more to do with price and reduced need for operator maintenance than anything else.
 
#73
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

Based off your list the springfield XD, that being said you need to seriously consider Glock. They are very reliable and durable and very easy to replace parts on they are plug and play, no fitting required. The accuracy is good and you will have a hard time out pointing the pistol.
 
#74
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I used the Beretta 96 for several years but I recently switched to a Glock 22 I like the weight and the trigger pull of the Glock. My advice would be to ask other officers what they use. Some departments will have guidelines on what they want you to use if they don't issue a weapon. I'd stick with something common that you feel comfortable using. If you have the opportunity try some different firearms.
 
#75
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

All the weapons that you listed are fine. Like several have stated, find out what you are allowed to carry by your dept. Go to a gun shop and see what fits your hand the best, and not what someone else says to get. I carry a Glock. Glock makes up 60% of all hand gun sales...there might be a reason for it. Most important is what fits your hand the best as you will be responsible for all rounds you send down range.
 
#77
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TBannister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately itll be what hes stated he didnt want.... Glock. I know you stated you didnt care for them, but <span style="font-weight: bold">theres a reason that LEOs carry Glock more than any other</span>.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at what other officers in the department are carrying, it would be really bad to be in a fire fight and need a mag or another in need and have to unload then load. </div></div> </div></div>

Would that be because they were the lowest bidder?
 
#79
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, at my Dept. only real OLD cops carry revolvers!</div></div>


That's how they got to be OLD </div></div>

Good comeback !!
 
#80
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

As stated check what the local dept uses. Mine uses glock 22s (.40cal)

Most local gun shops offer great discounts to LE , MILT, & MEDICAL.

Budsgunshop.com under LE section

My local gun shop is generous enough to sell me a glock 22 3 high cap mags, and tritum night sights for $419 new.
 
#82
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I have always been a Glock fan myself carrying my 20 in 10mm with 6inch bbl. for hunting and for shotting but the other day I bought my first SIg. A P220R with night sights and I must say they make a dang good product I couldnt beleive the accuracy of it, though only a single stack 8 rounds of 45 is plenty. Just be aware of price my setup retail was $900.00 but since i am a dealer was able to save a few bucks. Good luck in your search!
 
#85
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

In my dept there is a fair share of M&P's now. Glock had a stronghold for the longest until they approved the M&P for carry. I'm still weary about the Gen4 Glocks. Too many revision going on right now with the RSA, extractor, and ejectors. I'm waiting this one out. My M&P40 has served me well to date and has never hiccuped.

I know this thread is a bit old but as already suggested, I would find out what your local depts carry and go with that. You can just transition right over without having to buy a new gun if you get a job with one of the depts. At least you'll know the gun you used in the academy has been broken in and works 100%.

Nothing wrong with the XD/XDm but I would skip it all together for duty purposes. They are fine on the range but I wouldn't bet my life on one. I'm not knocking the XD as I've owned a few but too much going against it for duty purposes. Striker retaining pin breakage and the grip safety...
 
#87
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magstang1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smith & Wesson. Made in USA, arguably the best warranty in the business. </div></div>

They also have probably the best customer service!
 
#89
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

I would put the SIG P226 or SIG P220 at the top of the list because if 1. they are great guns and 2. they can be changed to either the .40 or 357SIG just by purchasing the different barrels and mags. And either gun you could bet that they will work all the time.
 
#90
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

FWIW I carry the XDm. I read alot of AAR's involving OIS incidents. One that comes to mind the officer was issued the Sig P220. On a traffic stop he was shot at by two offenders. After all was said and done by the time back up arrived there were two dead turds and the officer had two rounds left. The capacity of the P220 is lacking. At that time I was carrying a Kimber TLE II. Although the 45 is a powerhouse round that kills human cockroaches dead, more ammo means more options and I like options. I am a firm beliver in effective suppressive fire on the target. So get the best of both worlds a MP 45 or XDm 45 ect ect may be the best choice for you. Or the 9mm may be the best for you. Personally I have no problem with the disabling potental of a 9mm +P+ hollowpoint some may perfer the .45. To each his own. Functionally wise, The XDm is one of the finest pistols I have ever owned and shot. Dead on accurate, high cap, functionally sound and ergo friendly.
 
#91
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tennessean</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glock 19 fits all of those requirements and it's small enough to effectively carry concealed with a proper holster. Don't get wrapped around the axle on the 9mm vs. 45ACP debate. No handgun round is great. Buy lots of ammo and seek proper training and PRACTICE what you learn. </div></div>

agree!
 
#93
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

You'll get sick of these "in MY academy" stories...but we carried G22's; I can remember getting smoked with mine--and having to shoot it with mud and crap crammed in it...NO malfunctions! I still trust it to this day! Whichever you decide-best of luch to you at your academy!
 
#94
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

First off the is the academy run by one police department or is it a generic county academy to get your POST.
Either way, I would get list from departments on approved duty weapons and go from that list.
that being said;
Glock 22 are the most widely issues US police firearm.
Glock 23s are great for both holster and concealed carry.
Of course you can buy the Glock 17 or 19 which is the 9mm equivalent and used the same holsters as the 40s.
Looking at the sidearms you listed, only the 220 and the USP gets my nod for duty pistol based on the department requirements I am familiar with.
 
#95
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

One more note, a huge factor in the selection of Glock pistols by LE departments is LIABILITY. For whatever reason (probably the rash of accidental dishcarges LEO's had just about the time the Glocks hit the market..), insurance companies consider the glock "safe", I saw a stat(Totally un backed) a while back that 1911 style pistols are banned in over half of all police departments even for off duty carry if you want coverage by the dept insurance and legal team.

Personally I don't like the glock style triggers, but its because I spend the bulk of my shooting with light target triggers. I find the multi stage feel of the glock odd, if I had to carry on the job I'd probably suck it up and practice enough to get used to it. I'd also prefer it if they could narrow up the back of the grip a tad..

I use a Para P14 as my all purpose shooter... And a little 9mm for carry if I need to..

Wonder,, does anybody build a trigger group for a AR15 that uses the safe trigger tech? Hmm,

Dave
 
#96
Re: Duty pistol, could use some advice

IMO I would go with a glock 22. Current versions have incredibly wear resistant coatings. More accurate than most of the people that shoot them. And since glock has worked the bugs out of the recoil spring assy's your good to go. Great price point also. I use glocks in USPSA and three gun. Since glock sent me my updated recoil spring I haven't had any issues (one light strike but I was testing a lighter than stock weight striker spring.)The only thing that needs help is the stock sights 10-8 makes good replacements.
 
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