Ear Pro Problems

[JayjayUK]

Sorry if this is the wrong section of the forums.

I've been shooting Bolt Action .308s for around 2 years now. Always used SureFire ear plugs with Peltor Sport Tacs over the top.

Recently I have shot two PRS competitions each with around 100 rounds fired and I have found myself coming away with tinitus and minor hearing loss in my right ear (right handed shooter). The left ear has been fine on both occasions.

The first one went after a day or two, the second occasion its been over a week and whilst the tinitus has mostly gone and the hearing almost fully returned, I am starting to get a little concerned, particularly because I already double up on ear Pro.

I've had two suggestions as too what may be causing it.

1. I have started shooting with a new Muzzle Brake with aggressive ports in them which may be sending all the pressure and sound waves back at me. The issues do sort of coincide with the change of Muzzle Brake, but I had shot it a few times zeroing etc before the matches and from recollection had no issues.

2. The shock wave is resonating through the chassis of my AI and up into the cheek causing damage from the inside.

I've tried having a bit of a Google to try and find respectable research or testing in these areas but not really having any joy... does anyone have first hand experience with this or know of any literature around it?

I'm going to try my AI Muzzle Brake with 90 degree ports to see if that resolves the issue, if not I may have to shoot with a Moderator.. assuming it's not a resonance issue.

 

[Nik H]

I have tinnitus since I have been shooting for most of my life, riding motorbikes and listening to loud music. My case isn't bad and I have learned to live with it.

I think it is something that isn't really preventable but I am interested to see what the others say. A suppressor will most certainly help. I wish I lived somewhere that would allow me to own one

 

[kthomas]

A suppressor would probably help greatly.

 

[JayjayUK]

A suppressor would probably help greatly.

The only thing that makes me think it might not is that I already double up on decent ear pro... and its only one ear... which says to me its something other than the volume

 

[kthomas]

The only thing that makes me think it might not is that I already double up on decent ear pro... and its only one ear... which says to me its something other than the volume

It will be way less concussive than shooting a brake.

 

[JayjayUK]

It will be way less concussive than shooting a brake.

Very true

 

[acudaowner]

double plugs , if one pair won't protect you enough try two . one tiny pair in the ear another over the ear . hope if you try it , it works for you if not what ever you try best wishes .

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

The only thing that makes me think it might not is that I already double up on decent ear pro... and its only one ear... which says to me its something other than the volume

You are making assumptions that might not hold true.

I don't know what chassis, but a neoprene pad on the cheek piece would help with dampening vibration. And a can will absolutely make a difference, concussion and volume.

Or, as I was always told in the Corps, hearing protection: the less you use it, the less you need it!

 

[kthomas]

I don't believe any vibrations transmitted through a chassis would cause such issues.

Concussion from muzzle brakes absolutely can though.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

The only thing that makes me think it might not is that I already double up on decent ear pro... and its only one ear... which says to me its something other than the volume

Concussion from a brake will pass through your facial bones and into your ear, and can damage your hearing even when using plugs+muffs.

This is especially true of brakes on other shooter's rifles (for instance if you're waiting near the line to shoot next, or if you're lying next to a couple of braked rifles during a prone stage), but can also be true of a brake on your own rifle.

A suppressor can help a lot, simply by eliminating the concussion coming back towards your face from the muzzle (I have no issue keeping my eyes open during a shot when shooting with a can, not the case with a brake). But that still doesn't help with brakes on other shooter's rifles.

If only PRS matches would have suppressor only squads!!!

 

[kthomas]

Concussion from a brake will pass through your facial bones and into your ear, and can damage your hearing even when using plugs+muffs.

This is especially true of brakes on other shooter's rifles (for instance if you're waiting near the line to shoot next, or if you're lying next to a couple of braked rifles during a prone stage), but can also be true of a brake on your own rifle.

A suppressor can help a lot, simply by eliminating the concussion coming back towards your face from the muzzle (I have no issue keeping my eyes open during a shot when shooting with a can, not the case with a brake). That doesn't help with brakes on other shooter's rifles.

If only PRS matches would have suppressor only squads!!!

100%

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Concussion from a brake will pass through your facial bones and into your ear, and can damage your hearing even when using plugs+muffs.

This is especially true of brakes on other shooter's rifles (for instance if you're waiting near the line to shoot next, or if you're lying next to a couple of braked rifles during a prone stage), but can also be true of a brake on your own rifle.

A suppressor can help a lot, simply by eliminating the concussion coming back towards your face from the muzzle (I have no issue keeping my eyes open during a shot when shooting with a can, not the case with a brake). That doesn't help with brakes on other shooter's rifles.

If only PRS matches would have suppressor only squads!!!

I mostly agree, but have to disagree on the whole, just because you are an aggie.

Carry on.

 

[Namekagon]

The nice part about a suppressor is you get a good deal of recoil reduction from them too. Probably not as much as a good brake, but you get reduction of blast/sound AND recoil reduction. They really are awesome. So stupid how they are regulated/demonized.

 

[JayjayUK]

The nice part about a suppressor is you get a good deal of recoil reduction from them too. Probably not as much as a good brake, but you get reduction of blast/sound AND recoil reduction. They really are awesome. So stupid how they are regulated/demonized.

Luckily in the UK were allowed them for the most part.

I don't think I've been stood particularly close to others rifles on stages so I can only assume it was my own rifle causing the damage.

Im guessing going back to the AI Brake where the port Angle is 90 degrees should I'm theory help but maybe not eliminate the problem then?

I may just buy an ATEC PRS Moderator and have a bit of both.

 

[6.5SH]

Perhaps try a -33 dB foam plug in your right ear. You may be unseating the right ear cup when on the rifle. The SureFire plugs are a lower rating even on the non valved model.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Human hearing has three mechanisms to stimulate the final pathway to the brain to appreciate sound.

Air conduction: Sound entering the ear canal to rattle the tympanic membrane (ear drum) that via one more sound window, transforms the acoustic signal to your cochlea (common final pathway) that broadcasts magnitude of the sound signal via auditory cranial nerve to the brain.

• Mechanical bone conduction, the air filled mastoid bone directly behind your ear , that causes vibrations to rattle the cochlea system.
• 
  
• Cartilage conduction via vibrations of the cartilage framework of the external ear that stimulates the cochlear system.

A tuning fork is still commonly used as screening tool to assess relative hearing capacity. First to the ear canal to hear (air conduction) the tuning fork vibrations, when the patient signals they no longer can hear the fork vibrating, the examiner places the fork on the mastoid bone to allow the patient to appreciate further hearing (conductive) beyond that offered by the ear canal. The tuning forks are available in high / low frequency to further define the auditory deficit range.

It is quite common for the shooter to have their external ear pro displaced from its protective position about the ear when pressed against the buttstock to establish the cheek weld. This leads to reliance on secondary ear pro plugs to prevent air conduction hearing loss however the bone / cartilage conduction stimuli to the cochlea are not protected by ear plugs. In the OP’s situation explains the buttstock side hearing to be manifest hearing damage, e.g. tinnitus.

 

[JayjayUK]

Well.. good news. My hearing is starting to come back slowly and the tinnitus is subsiding slowly!

I've swapped my muzzle brake back to the Tactical AI Brake with 90 degree ports to stop the concussion and i'm going to use foam earplugs instead of the SureFire plugs on my next shoot and hope it doesn't cause any issues. Going to make sure I've got my offsets recorded for my moderator too so i can change to that if i need too mid match.

 

[JayjayUK]

Further good news!

Swapping Muzzle Brake and using Foam Ear Plugs under my Peltor SportTacs whilst shooting 50 rounds today resulted in no temporary hearing loss or tinnitus.

Hoorah!

 

[beetroot]

Further good news!

Swapping Muzzle Brake and using Foam Ear Plugs under my Peltor SportTacs whilst shooting 50 rounds today resulted in no temporary hearing loss or tinnitus.

Hoorah!

I had similar experiences when swaping to a 90° brake. The rear ported brake I had was horrible and I definitely needed double hearing protection.

Out of interest how does the AI brake compare with your other brake recoil wise?

 

[OREGUN]

Jeepers. You can’t undo hearing damage. Just run the moderator already. Enjoy your grandchildrens’ voices.

 

[JayjayUK]

I had similar experiences when swaping to a 90° brake. The rear ported brake I had was horrible and I definitely needed double hearing protection.

Out of interest how does the AI brake compare with your other brake recoil wise?

It was noticeable.. but I couldn't but a % on it.

 

[JayjayUK]

Jeepers. You can’t undo hearing damage. Just run the moderator already. Enjoy your grandchildrens’ voices.

It's more the wife's I'm trying to bloke out now

But in all seriousness my Moderator is coming with me to every match now and if I start getting any sign of it I will switch.

 

[Timo Turl]

Bud, just run with the mod from the start. Switching mid match is never a great plan.

 

[Missalot]

Find an audiologist to get some expert non internet advice and buy a suppressor (approx $1500 investment for both). If you have an ENT, he can refer you or he may have one in his office. You only have one set of ears that has to last your entire life. I can tell you it totally sucks to have moderate hearing loss at middle age and then it gets worse. You owe it to your ears and your family.

 

[kthomas]

Bud, just run with the mod from the start. Switching mid match is never a great plan.

Exactly.

Swapping to a suppressor mid match and having to deal with POI shift would be a nuisance, and the last thing you should have to think/worry about in match conditions.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Further good news!

Swapping Muzzle Brake and using Foam Ear Plugs under my Peltor SportTacs whilst shooting 50 rounds today resulted in no temporary hearing loss or tinnitus.

Hoorah!

Your issue is somewhat puzzling to me as I've never found it necessary to use both muffs and ear plugs, assuming either type of protection is of good quality.

I really wonder if your cheek weld is breaking the seal between your muffs and your skull and the ear plugs aren't sealing correctly either.

I never found foam plugs effective. For over 30 years, I have used custom molded earplugs made by a gentleman who used to make electronic-equipped ones for the Special Forces people down at Fort Bragg. These things are all-day comfortable and, once they seal, provide the best possible in-ear protection. When I had mine made MANY years ago, I was too cheap to have the electronic bits included so they're solid with attendant difficulty understanding speech while using them. I use them for PRS matches when I want to wear a wide-brimmed hat (I have had more than enough experience with sun-damage-related skin cancer). For regular range use where I'm on a covered firing line, I use the muffs. I've never used both together.

You can buy kits to make your own molded plugs, but all the guys I know who tried to go that route went through at least two kits and still ended up not using the results of their effort.

I wish you luck in resolving this. I've on the downhill side of 70 and have been shooting since I was in grade school. Back in the 1960s and even into the early '70s, hearing protection just wasn't a "thing" but all my shooting then was with either shotguns or .22s. I am so very fortunate that my hearing is still in good shape and I have zero or, occasionally, extremely mild tinnitus. I now use hearing protection for ANYTHING that makes a lot of noise, like running gasoline-powered lawn equipment.

 

[JayjayUK]

Yes it was puzzling to me also.

I failed to mention in the OP but I also shoot .223 Carbines at work and we double plug for them too and I'd never had even the slightest issue with hearing.

It was only on the two occasions and the only thing now thinking back that had changed was the Muzzle Brake.

Part of the reason I used the SureFire plugs was because we are issued the same set at work and I've never had a problem so I figured sticking to what I know works would be a good idea... I have since found out they've stopped issuing them too new people as they were found not to be as effective as foam ear plugs... but they forgot to tell those of us already issued them that bit

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Your issue is somewhat puzzling to me as I've never found it necessary to use both muffs and ear plugs, assuming either type of protection is of good quality.

Just to have a different experience, if I don't double up on earpro and someone is shooting with a brake around me I almost immediately get a ringing in my ears. Sometimes even without a brake (bare muzzle) I get the ringing. I'm fairly young and have pretty good hearing and intend to maintain it.

I use foam plugs, Peltor Tac 500s over the plugs and a can for hearing protection 100% of the time. When inserted properly, it's hard to beat a foam plug. In fact I turn my Peltors all the way up to be able to hear voices. The muffs really cut the concussion from brakes.

 

[Turkeytider]

At the range, if someone sets up with a brake in the next bay over, I`ll try to move. If I can`t move ( no bays available ), my shooting day is over. I won`t freak out, get in an altercation, etc. I wear plugs and muffs, but I`m not taking the risk with the hearing I have left at 75 and having been around firearms about 65 of those 75. Never forget the first time I experienced a muzzle brake next to me. I thought for sure my fillings had fallen out and both retinas detached!

 

[CK1.0]

Use good ol' foamies under your muffs, or better yet, get custom molded plugs to go under them (either/both provide more NRR and a better seal than those SureFire plugs).

Using double ear pro is the only way to go around these guns no matter what (if you want to keep your hearing).

Many guys get confused as to what is what with ear pro and NRR... but try to remember this:

"Wondering how the efficiency of double protection translates to higher decibel levels? All it takes is a simple calculation to determine the level your double hearing protection is providing: Add 5 dBA to the highest noise reduction rating of the higher-rated hearing device. For example, if you’re using an earplug with a 30 NRR and an earmuff with a 26 NRR, you would add 5 dB to the 30 NRR for the earplug. Your protection level would then increase to 35 dB, assuming the earplug is worn properly. This simplified method of calculating double protection dBA is based on OSHA recommendations." - https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/19104-double-hearing-protection#:~:text=One downside to wearing double,carefully considered for certain worksites.

Sound pressure levels aren't measured linearly, decibels are logarithmic, so 5dB is actually A LOT.

I use custom plugs with 31dB of NRR with Sordin muffs for an added 5dB of NRR (and the electronics, so I can hear range commands and talk to peeps at a semi-normal volume).

That said, you can't hide from a concussion blast, it literally rattles one's bones, shaking our inner ears to death... so as has been mentioned above, be careful around other people's brakes, especially if they're positioned next to you or when you find yourself off-axis to them.

At a match, the safest/quietest place is right behind the shooter most times.

I use these and they are worth it, I can keep them in all-day (or both days for a 2-day) without any discomfort and forget about them... without ever worrying about the seal being compromised or working loose: https://1of1custom.com/products/total-block

 

[hlee]

Some comments in this thread are comical. Like “I’ve never doubled up on ear pro and my hearing is great. And, I did a ton of shooting as a kid without hearing protection.”

I have tinnitus, though not from firearms- damaged ear drums horsing around in a swimming pool. That said, I can clap my hands loud enough to cause an audible ring in my ears. I double up on ear pro when shooting, and wear at least one set of ear pro when doing the yard. And, I can tell an obvious difference in sound attenuation when using plugs vs plugs and muffs.

I had some custom ear plugs made a couple of years ago. They were very comfortable, and my preferred plugs for being a spectator at a shooting event- or doing the lawn. I even wore them to a rock concert. But, they were not as good as the orange foamies for actual sound attenuation. My son shoots sporting clays and shot exactly one station with his custom molded ear plugs before switching back to foam plugs. The custom plugs (actual ear protection professional custom molded, not the DIY kit) just aren’t as good as the foam plugs.

If you like the molded plugs great. If you think there is no benefit to doubling up, you have probably already lost a considerable amount of hearing.