Rifle Scopes Economical scope with FFP moa/moa?

[DCS]

Greetings!

I'm a noob to LR game. I have many rifles & calibers, but no dedicated LR scope with ranging capability and exposed turrets.

So I'm shopping for a scope.

Budget - $700.

Required features: variable in the 4-16 neighborhood. AO. Moa or Mil reticle. Turrets match reticle. ROA: at least 60moa or 20 mil.

Strongly desired feature: FFP for ranging at any power.

Desired features: Side focus. Medium turret height (because huge turrets bang into stuff and won't fit in normal rifle cases). Zero stop.

Don't need: illuminated reticle.

I've narrowed the field to:
Weaver Tactical 4-20x50 or 3-15x50 FFP mil/mil or SS 3-15x40 FFP mil/mil.

I also looked at Vortex 4-16x44 moa/moa, but it's SFP. But it's moa/moa!!

MOA comes naturally to me, so the moa/moa feature sounds really good.

Have I missed any obvious brands or models?

What's more common today at friendly sniper matches: moa/moa or mil/mil?

Does anyone make an FFP moa/moa scope for less than $700?

Thx!

 

[Crosshair]

Only FFP moa/moa in that mag range under $700 I know of:
Falcon Menace 4-14x44 Tactical 30mm Riflescope


Or, save another $100 for a FFP moa/moa Vortex PST 4-16x, or find a used one.

 

[ridenrunwv]

Mil/mil or MOA/MOA is debated constantly. I prefer and see much more mil/mil but as long as your reticle you won't have a problem learning. The big learning curve that is very hard to overcome is when people buy a mil dot reticle scope with mil knobs. They will spot there miss and think, well I need to come up around 1.5 mils and then be left to calculate how many MOA that is.

 

[GhostFace]

If you are nit set on ffp you can get a PST (6-24) for $750. You can range at all powers but the math is a lil different for the lower power.

 

[Monmouth]

I'm very happy with my SWFA 3-15 on my .308

 

[DoctorBen]

I'll vouch for the Weaver. It's taken me to 1000 yards on a 308 repeatably. I've never handled high end glass, and I'm not willing to call myself more than a novice with only 2000 rounds down the tube, but it works for me. Passed the box test when I got it.

 

[Okie Gordon]

Greetings!
......
Budget - $700.
.....

For that budget you will probably be compromising on your wish list.
Good quality tactical scopes with all the bells and whistles are in the $2000 to $3500 price range.

......
Required features: variable in the 4-16 neighborhood. AO. Moa or Mil reticle. Turrets match reticle. ROA: at least 60moa or 20 mil.
Strongly desired feature: FFP for ranging at any power.
Desired features: Side focus. Medium turret height (because huge turrets bang into stuff and won't fit in normal rifle cases). Zero stop.
Don't need: illuminated reticle.
.........

First Focal Plane is essential for ranging at multiple magnifications (as you mentioned) but is also essential to shoot moving targets effectively. Holdoffs on movers is "mostly" dependent on target speed, not yardage. If you are shooting close range movers you need to be at a lower power to locate and track the target on follow-up shots, which messes with the reticle hold-off amount on second focal plane scopes. With a first focal plane scope if you know your holdoff for a given speed it works properly no matter what magnification you are utilizing.
Zero stop is a good feature but is actually pretty easy to do on your own. For scopes that do not have a zero stop feature I use calipers to take a couple of measurements in order to buy washers to stack underneath the turrent cap. Simply figure out what OD and ID and total thickness you need and buy a packet of washers at the hardware store that are the correct OD. You will probably need to drill out the ID and will not be at exactly zero when the cap is bottomed out but you can get plenty close by using combinations of varying thickness washers.
I haven't personally found any need for a lighted reticle in 12 years of participating in tactical matches.

I've narrowed the field to:
Weaver Tactical 4-20x50 or 3-15x50 FFP mil/mil or SS 3-15x40 FFP mil/mil.

I also looked at Vortex 4-16x44 moa/moa, but it's SFP. But it's moa/moa!!

MOA comes naturally to me, so the moa/moa feature sounds really good.

Have I missed any obvious brands or models?

What's more common today at friendly sniper matches: moa/moa or mil/mil?

Does anyone make an FFP moa/moa scope for less than $700?

Thx!

You might want to consider widening your search to include MIL/MIL scopes.
Mils are real easy to pick up. The main thing is to have knob adjustments that match the reticle. Back in the old days when reticles were mils and knob adjustment was in MOA, I spent way too much time pulling my hair out remembering to keep the two separate and mentally adjusting a follow up correction from the MIL reticle to MOA clicks on the scope.
There might be a few MOA/MOA scopes being utilized by competitors but I have not personally seen any in the top half of the field in several years.
Switching from MOA to MILS is super easy. Once you do a bit of practicing you will start mentally making corrections in MILS.
One thing I like about Mil adjustments is that scopes are normally 1/10 of a mil per click adjustment, which is 3/8" at 100 yards. I prefer the coarser adjustment and find that for quick adjustments it entails a lot less turning than 1/8 or 1/4 moa clicks. I actually got a blister on my finger at a match from turning the knob so much on my Nightforce MOA scope several years ago before switching over to a USO scope.

For your price range I would suggest that you look real hard at the SWFA 3-15 SS scope
SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope
Other than being MIL/MIL it has all the features you are asking for and is within your budget.

 

[flatland1]

Look on Optics Planet or anywhere else that carries the Weaver #800382, which is a 3-15x50 FFP mil/mil model with .1mil clicks. Not sure what the deal on this scope is, as their #800363 has very similar specs, yet is priced $20-$30 higher. Maybe the higher priced model is the illuminated one?

Whatever - I bought a 3-15x50 Euro Super Slam 'tactical' model several years ago, and it's been an extremely solid scope, with pretty decent glass - only downside it it's got mil dot reticle, and MOA knobs. Ordered it out of the JSC catalog without taking time to go to Weaver's website to confirm exactly what I was getting. Whatever - it's been sitting on a J-D Machine Snipers Hide AR10 chambered for an improved 7-08, and is still a very solid scope. Locking knobs, but no zero stop, and I don't know how a homemade zero stop would work on a scope with pull-up knobs.

 

[Dfarmer786]

I love my weaver tactical 3-15x50 it's ffp red and green illumination locking turrets and great glass. Definitely worth the money. The pst line is nice too. I looked through both and like the feel of the weaver


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[Jethro21]

I also have the Weaver tactical 3-15 illuminated mil/mil. I am not any great long distance shooter by any means but it has done everything I have asked. If I had the budget to get something more expensive I certainly would, but I don't feel that I am at a disadvantage at all with the Weaver.

 

[flatland1]

I think it's a shame Weaver's marketing people haven't managed to get their tactical line of scopes in front of more shooters - they're pretty good scopes, with a choice of several FFP reticles, and at a price point that makes them a good value. Back when I bought my first CF rifle - in 1968 - steel tube Weaver K-series scopes were the standard that others were compared to.

 

[DCS]

Thanks for the feedback. After doing some more reading (here and other sources) I'm leaning more towards mil/mil now. It certainly opens up more options. If you're spotting for another shooter, it's probable that he'll be working in mils as well, so that may be a factor.

I did look at the Falcon 4-14x44 FFP, and that led me to also check out the similar Primary Arms and BSA-Midway models. They have some haters but also some good reviews & happy owners. I wonder how much actual difference there is between those three models?

I'm gonna mull it over. Prior to this week, I was mostly unfamiliar with FFP vs SFP, exposed turrets, mil ranging and adj, resettable zero knobs, zero stops, and the box test. So it's been a lot to digest.

FWIW to future readers: FFP mil/mil AO scopes in the 3-15X neighborhood, non-illuminated, under $700, available Dec 2013 (none have zero stops, but you may be able to fab something with shims for some models):

Weaver 3-15x50 - $700 - mil-dot reticle. ROA - 20.3mil.
SWFA SS 3-15x42 - $700 - mil-quad reticle. ROA - 36mil.
Falcon Menace 4-14x44 - $360 - mil-hash reticle. (moa/moa also available). ROA - 26mil.
BSA-Midway 4-14x44 - $250 - mil-hash reticle. ROA - 26.5m elev, 23.5mil wind.
PA 4-14x44 -$230 - mil-dot reticle. ROA - 17mil.

I'm sure I missed one or two others, but it's a start.

 

[rayrevolver]

You can get the Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12x G2DMR Reticle, FFP, Mil/Mil, for less than $735 shipped.

I am a long range noob. The only magnified optic I am familiar with is a ACOG and I ended up focused on Bushnell Elite Tacs due to my own perceived requirements. Lots of learning for me to do.