| I have a Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creed with the full length 1" thick bull barrel (26" bbl). It's my best shooting rifle, putting 5rds in less than 1/2" more often than not. But it is heavy and doesn't have a threaded muzzle. I don't really enjoy shooting unsuppressed anymore, so I want to make it handier and throw my can on it. I realize there are probably a lot of variables involved, but would I likely be able to achieve the same precision (as unmolested) after chopping the barrel to 18-20" and having it threaded for the can? Or is that a bad idea and I shouldn't mess with a great shooting gun? Thanks for any advice. |
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Effect on precision by chopping down and threading muzzle on known shooter
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
I'm using handloads with 140gr Berger VLDs and H4350. I would do and have done a Savage prefit myself (did one with a Criterion and another with a Rock Creek prefit), but I'm trying to save money. New barrel ~$500 vs $75 for thread job.
$75 is a good price. I was thinking $150, and would just buy a new barrel at that point.
I had my 12FV. 223 chopped down and threaded 5/8-24. The rifles balance was much better and the groups shrunk by 40% YMMV. I'll gladly give away the small amount of speed for the other benefits.
Mentioned a new barrel in your post at AR15.com but if you don't want to do that then chop and thread but expect less velocity. You can just redo the load to work in an 18-20" with a can hanging off it.
What are you going to use the rifle for?
Short range target practice? Long range? Hunting? Competitions?
If you go as short as 18-20", you may find yourself abandoning the 140's for a lighter projectile that still has decent velocity at that barrel length. For example, I intended to use 140's with my 18" hunting 6.5 Creedmoor, but the velocity just wasn't there so I went to 123 Scenars.
And precision shouldn't be effected, just get someone who does quality work to do the job.
Short range target practice? Long range? Hunting? Competitions?
If you go as short as 18-20", you may find yourself abandoning the 140's for a lighter projectile that still has decent velocity at that barrel length. For example, I intended to use 140's with my 18" hunting 6.5 Creedmoor, but the velocity just wasn't there so I went to 123 Scenars.
And precision shouldn't be effected, just get someone who does quality work to do the job.
That's a good question.
Mostly clanging steel out in the desert with buddies or shooting small groups at the range. I doubt I'll hunt or compete with it, but you never know. From what I can tell, I'll only be losing about 100-150 fps with the barrel chop, so my drop at 1,000 yds should be increased about another mil.
I would think you'd be fine, my reasoning, the barrel would have less wag (flex up and down) with a shorter barrel. As long as the muzzle is finished off nice i don't think you'd have an issue. Also there was a test done maybe 10 years ago or so, i think it was in a long range magazine, where they took a precision rifle abs shortened the barrel in 1"increments using a hack saw. That test was for velocity loss (which was minimal) however i can't recall them saying anything about accuracy/ precision. So if they didn't say anything I'm going to take that as a good thing seeing as how there's no way they were just blindly shooting into the dirt doing a test with a high end rifle (iirc it was an aics1.0) in a printed long range magazine. I'll try to find the article i read but no promises.
Side note, i shortened the barrel on my mosin nagant from 26" to 20" and it shot way more accurately. Take that as you will, i know it doesn't mean much to this thread, but i concluded that was because of the barrel becoming stiffer and putting a better than factory crown on the muzzle.
Side note, i shortened the barrel on my mosin nagant from 26" to 20" and it shot way more accurately. Take that as you will, i know it doesn't mean much to this thread, but i concluded that was because of the barrel becoming stiffer and putting a better than factory crown on the muzzle.
I chopped and rethreaded a Bergara BMP 6.5 from 24” to 19” specifically to improve the handling/weight with a can. The accuracy was unchanged and it’s actually nice to carry and hunt with now.
I’m shooting the 123s so bumping my velocity back up didn’t take much. I’m a believer in the lighter projectiles for easier velocity gains and better brass life.
LRI did the work. They had a solid turn around, as well as quality work.
I’m shooting the 123s so bumping my velocity back up didn’t take much. I’m a believer in the lighter projectiles for easier velocity gains and better brass life.
LRI did the work. They had a solid turn around, as well as quality work.
IMHO, consider that threading the barrel at 26" vs chopping to 20" are (perhaps) two completely different questions.
Q1 is will threading wreck a known shooter. This is question for a gunsmith or barrel maker.
Q2 is will chopping 6inches off a creedmoor wreck your 140 load. This question is answered by your ballistics calculator.
As mentioned above, the slower speed 140 loads under-perform higher-speed 130 loads, unless you are shooting >1,000 yard ranges where your now-too-slow-140 won't hold 1MOA of inherent accuracy anyway. So the question answers itseld: there is no point to keeping a "known shooter" of 140 grain class bullets if you chop to 20".
Q1 is will threading wreck a known shooter. This is question for a gunsmith or barrel maker.
Q2 is will chopping 6inches off a creedmoor wreck your 140 load. This question is answered by your ballistics calculator.
As mentioned above, the slower speed 140 loads under-perform higher-speed 130 loads, unless you are shooting >1,000 yard ranges where your now-too-slow-140 won't hold 1MOA of inherent accuracy anyway. So the question answers itseld: there is no point to keeping a "known shooter" of 140 grain class bullets if you chop to 20".
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That whole "shorter is more accurate due to less "wag" is old BR thinking. Plenty of very accurate long barrels especially with the heavier contour. Lots of accurate long range rifles have 26"+ length barrels.
That was probably the Rifle Shooter test and it was seriously flawed for their velocity results as it showed the bullet slowed down after 26". They used a new barrel that was speeding up and the whole test is not worth reading. Been gone over many times.
The Mosin was probably more accurate as you cut off the beat up muzzle and recrowned it more so than being shorter as you mention.
Based off my opinion/ experience
. I'm not a ballistician and was about 14 when i read that article. I'm not saying a long barrel is inherently innacurate, and he starts this thread by saying his long barrel is accurate. I run 25-27" m24 barrels on all my stuff so I'm definitely not going against long barrels. Just saying less wag is a benefit of a shorter barrel, that's a fact no matter what, will it make the barrel more accurate probably not especially when you are hand loading and running in a node.Thanks for asking. I decided that even though it shoots wonderfully as is, I don't enjoy shooting it anymore because I just don't really want to shoot without a suppressor anymore. It was 26" with an unthreaded muzzle, so it didn't have a lot of utility other than being able to shoot wallet-worthy groups. So my gunsmith is cutting it down to 19" and threading it 5/8x24.
Looks good to me! My 6.5 CM hunting rifles are 20" and 18", both shoot fine, both will move 130gr - 147gr along at useful speeds with RL16 or Staball. I also just had a 300 WSM cut down to 18", lost ~150 fps, vs 24" but still has plenty of ass. Like you, I don't have much use for rifles I can't suppress anymore.
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