Maggie’s Electric hot water heater

[Bryan W M]

I have had great luck with the brain trust that is the Hide.
Looking into replacing my 11 year old hot water heater . What I have now is a Richmond 50 gallon 240 volt 4500 watt .
With 4 kids and wife I don’t know if I should go bigger. Or just stagger bath time.
I thought about doing a heat pump water heater but not sure if it is worth it. House is all electric. Brands to look at brands to run from? Heat pump a good idea?

 

[LuckyLuke80]

I’m not familiar with a heat pump water system, unless you’re referring to a thermal type system. I’d suggest avoiding an on demand heater unless getting a big high dollar unit. The newer electric ones can be good, but stupid energy star standards have ruined appliances.

 

[rjacobs]

Where do you live?

Im in Texas and my 2 water heaters are in the garage. Ill be doing heat pump water heaters when the time comes since around 6-7 months out of the year I can take advantage of the hot garage for once.

 

[Bryan W M]

Northeast KS. Tank is in the basement.

 

[rjacobs]

Northeast KS. Tank is in the basement.

I am sure there is a place to check out if a heat pump type water heater makes sense in a basement that probably averages 60-70 degrees. Im sure they work in those temps, but is it the best way to go? I have no clue.

 

[bullseye13]

Hot water heater? Normally you heat up cold water.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

Hot water heater? Normally you heat up cold water.

Haha! That’s what I tell people too

 

[Aftermath]

Ok...so I am 100% off-grid solar. I have an expensive, top of the line, super efficient, electric tankless.
Let me tell you that was a real mistake.
It's a real electricity HOG. I would stay away from electric tankless even if I were hooked up to the main lines. As far as that goes, I would not use an electric hot water heater at all after this learning experience. In the not distant future, I am going to install a propane tankless. Plus more, but that is neither here nor there.

 

[RPN]

Ok...so I am 100% off-grid solar. I have an expensive, top of the line, super efficient, electric tankless.
Let me tell you that was a real mistake.
It's a real electricity HOG. I would stay away from electric tankless even if I were hooked up to the main lines. As far as that goes, I would not use an electric hot water heater at all after this learning experience. In the not distant future, I am going to install a propane tankless. Plus more, but that is neither here nor there.

I'm also 100% solar, and have a heat pump. Even in winter there is about 1.8 multiplier, and in summer it is closer to 3.4x. In winter we use a wetback on the fire though, as generation hours are less, and I save them for lights, computers, fridges etc.

Only way to go.

 

[Aussie Joe]

Ok...so I am 100% off-grid solar. I have an expensive, top of the line, super efficient, electric tankless.
Let me tell you that was a real mistake.
It's a real electricity HOG. I would stay away from electric tankless even if I were hooked up to the main lines. As far as that goes, I would not use an electric hot water heater at all after this learning experience. In the not distant future, I am going to install a propane tankless. Plus more, but that is neither here nor there.

Didn't gas tankless systems just get outlawed by Biden?

 

[Aftermath]

Didn't gas tankless systems just get outlawed by Biden?

I think he just attempted but failed. I might be wrong, in which case, I will go buy one tomorrow.

MSN

https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5070136-new-federal-rule-targets-certain-gas-water-heaters-heres-what-you-should-know/

Biden Quietly Bans Most Gas Powered Tankless Water Heaters

by Tyler Durden In a significant regulatory shift that took place quietly the day after Christmas, the Biden administration finalized new climate rules targeting natural gas-powered instantaneous w…

www.climatedepot.com

 

[Aftermath]

I'm also 100% solar, and have a heat pump. Even in winter there is about 1.8 multiplier, and in summer it is closer to 3.4x. In winter we use a wetback on the fire though, as generation hours are less, and I save them for lights, computers, fridges etc.

Only way to go.

I am planning to keep the electric installed, install a propane upstream and a solar upstream from that. Also use an insulated storage tank that circulates using convection. If everything is perfect, the solar will heat the water and it will just pass through everything else. Redundancy.

 

[chevy_man]

Just go bigger. If you can't go to gas, go at least 80 gallon, or if your current tank is still in good shape add a second 50 gallon.

Electric does suck for keeping up on them. Yearly cleaning and keeping the anode in good shape will stretch their life quite a lot.


My 80 gallon unit running on natural gas costs me about $15/month, and I haven't ever run it out. It also has a massive recovery rate compared to electric though.

Electric on demand is dumb. Most of them worth having need 200A 240v dedicated to them. You can get by with smaller ones, but only if you have a lot of line or a storage tank. Then you add a recirculation loop and a pump on a timer. Get a decent amount of water hot and running in the lines during the hours you'll be using it.

 

[packratt]

Heat pump hot water doesn't work well when installed in unconditional space.

For an 80gal nonheatpump water heater you are looking at atleast $2000 (FJB) and unit is 72x24x24. If I was looking for over 50gal and had the space and electrical capacity I'd look at installing a second 50 gal in parallel with isolation valves on each so that when one craps out there would still be one working.

 

[shotgunslade]

This. If/ when the heat pump feature croaks, you’re left with a standard 80 gallon electric. The heat pumps are expensive upfront & you’ll need to address condensation removal as well. Commercial 80 gallons are available w/ stainless liners. They’re expensive and, I believe, only give a 3 year warranty. Since the govt regulation removed residential 80, you’re best, most economical bet, is to do (2) parallel 50 gallons. Assuming you have the room. 6 year warranty, from the manufacturer, on the residential w. Heaters. Good luck

 

[Bullfrog08]

Hot water heater? Normally you heat up cold water.

Define hot.....

I'd bet my paycheck your water heater also heats up hot water!

 

[Ronws]

I'm also 100% solar, and have a heat pump. Even in winter there is about 1.8 multiplier, and in summer it is closer to 3.4x. In winter we use a wetback on the fire though, as generation hours are less, and I save them for lights, computers, fridges etc.

Only way to go.

What is the wetback's name?

See what I did there?

 

[Ronws]

Just go bigger. If you can't go to gas, go at least 80 gallon, or if your current tank is still in good shape add a second 50 gallon.

Electric does suck for keeping up on them. Yearly cleaning and keeping the anode in good shape will stretch their life quite a lot.


My 80 gallon unit running on natural gas costs me about $15/month, and I haven't ever run it out. It also has a massive recovery rate compared to electric though.

Electric on demand is dumb. Most of them worth having need 200A 240v dedicated to them. You can get by with smaller ones, but only if you have a lot of line or a storage tank. Then you add a recirculation loop and a pump on a timer. Get a decent amount of water hot and running in the lines during the hours you'll be using it.

Yeah, I have seen people want to get those Coates instant water heaters than need (3) 240 volt 40 amp circuits. And they may not have enough breaker space or ampacity in their service and need to upgrade to a 320 MB which requires a load calculation to Oncor in our area and then a permit, etcetera. Stick with gas or propane and be done with it.

 

[Ruff 364]

Don't do it.

I had one, it took three separate 20 amp breakers. Not cheap to run with kids and a wife running showers.

Three heating elements and they went out all the time. If one went out you had cold showers. They would replace them, but what a pain in the ass.

Final straw was one went out and melted the housing. I was backing out of the garage and noticed water flowing down my wall.

Again, they replaced the entire deal but I replaced it with a tank system. I sold it to a buddy for his shop WH. It's been fine for a shower and bathroom use. They just aren't enough for a whole house system IMO.

I have heard the gas fired ones are solid. Wouldn't hesitate with them but fuck the electric ones.

 

[B y r o n]

I think he just attempted but failed. I might be wrong, in which case, I will go buy one tomorrow.

MSN

https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5070136-new-federal-rule-targets-certain-gas-water-heaters-heres-what-you-should-know/

Biden Quietly Bans Most Gas Powered Tankless Water Heaters

by Tyler Durden In a significant regulatory shift that took place quietly the day after Christmas, the Biden administration finalized new climate rules targeting natural gas-powered instantaneous w…

www.climatedepot.com

I found this info: "The adopted standards, which are expressed in UEF are shown in table I.1. These standards apply to products with effective storage volumes less than 2 gallons and input ratings greater than 50,000 Btu/h (as listed in table I.1) and manufactured in, or imported into, the United States starting on December 26, 2029."

You can read more here.

 

[Bryan W M]

I have room for a bigger tank don’t have room for two. Tankless electric is a joke not interested in that. Did more reading on the heat pump hybrid heaters not not ideal for basement 60-70 degrees.

Any suggestions on brands?

 

[NoDopes]

I'm about to put one of these in my gas WH. Has a 20 year warranty and supposed to reduce scale buildup, and rotten egg smells if your water has it.

 

[GUNNER75]

Hot water heater? Normally you heat up cold water.

My brother n laws are plumbers when my electric unit quit I called on them for advice and I was educated.........Just 3 weeks ago I had to replace my COLD WATER HEATER..............

 

[rjacobs]

A.O. Smith and Bradford white I believe are going to be the top two "standard" electric brands to go with.

Looks like you can get a residential A.O. Smith with up to a 12 year warranty. Bradford White looks like max of 6 years(their warranty book eludes to a 10 year warranty product also, but I couldnt find any "standard" electric units in their catalog that offer it).

I would likely do one of the A.O. Smith 500 series with the long warranty. Available at Lowes. Their Pro-Line is only available at plumbing houses and has a 10 year warranty. Dont know if one is actually better than the other, but if you have a local plumbing house that sells them might be worth a quick trip.

 

[SWgeezer]

I am in the process of replacing my electric water heater, I have a 50 gallon, 2 element that is connected to the geo-thermal heat pump. It is at least 35 years old. The new 50's come with either one 5500w element that recharges quicker but requires a larger breaker. I decided on a dual element 50 gallon. It will run on the same breakers I have installed. Recovery time is equal to wattage. You might look at a supplemental demand tankless that is closer to where it will be used at. Smaller 120V systems might be an option that would help your recovery time. Cold water helps to shorten the amount of time in the shower as well.

 

[Millennium200]

After two short lived heat pump hot water heaters I went back to just a regular electric water heater.

 

[ironpony52]

as stated above go to Lowes and buy their longest warranty WH and install it, then forget about it. In 10 years it will start dripping and you repeat the cycle. None of them are magic. I have been an electric wh guy for a long time now. Another thing when installed keep it up off of the concrete.

 

[vh20]

Hot water heater? Normally you heat up cold water.

Yep. First thing I thought when I read the title - I could hear my Dad (now deceased) fussing when I was a kid: "It's not a "hot water heater". It's a WATER heater. It doesn't heat hot water!"

 

[BoilerUP]

Had to replace our NG hot water heater in early 2024, tankless wasn't an option for us without 1. upgrading our NG meter and 2. some horrendiously ugly white PVC exhaust/vent piping. The 50gal replacement we got works well, but there are times we need more hot water.

Anybody running one of these electric "hot water extenders"?

A 10-3 line to 30A breaker was already run to my utility room when I bought the house, which looks ideal for one of these.

 

[jr81452]

Yeah, I have seen people want to get those Coates instant water heaters than need (3) 240 volt 40 amp circuits. And they may not have enough breaker space or ampacity in their service and need to upgrade to a 320 MB which requires a load calculation to Oncor in our area and then a permit, etcetera. Stick with gas or propane and be done with it.

Tankless electric is only good if you:

A. Live in an area with supply temps above 70deg and
B. Install multiple smaller units at point of use.

In FL I run a 15kw at the spare bath (shower sink), 12kw at the kitchen (sink) , and 20kw in the main bath (dual head shower, tub, 2 sinks) (all Stiebel). On average we use 37% less power than the 80gal tank we had before used. Install costs would be a bitch for most though, so I only recommend it for new construction.

 

[SWgeezer]

Had to replace our NG hot water heater in early 2024, tankless wasn't an option for us without 1. upgrading our NG meter and 2. some horrendiously ugly white PVC exhaust/vent piping. The 50gal replacement we got works well, but there are times we need more hot water.

Anybody running one of these electric "hot water extenders"?

View attachment 8585911

A 10-3 line to 30A breaker was already run to my utility room when I bought the house, which looks ideal for one of these.

small capacity tankless electric water heater dressed up.

 

[BoilerUP]

small capacity tankless electric water heater dressed up.

Indeed...but do they actually work the way they are advertised to?