Electric Trucks

[johnnyvw]

Interesting assessment of the true pollution of ice vs ev over their lifespan. Depending on the source of electricity, the "break even" point is around 68k miles

Volvo Says Manufacturing An Electric Car Generates 70 Percent More Emissions Than Its ICE Equivalent | Carscoops

However, over the course of 124,000 miles, the EV will have a 15–50 percent lower carbon footprint than the petrol car

www.carscoops.com

 

[AngryKoala]

I don't give a shit about them two. They are idiots. I don't listen to idiots.

Electrical energy can be made currently from energy sources that won't be exhausted for millenia and which create no CO2. The waste disposal issue isn't a technical one, but a political one.

In the very, very near future (<10 years) we will have on line nuclear fission reactors whose fuel is composed radically differently than what we do today. That difference increases the margin of safety by several orders of magnitude. Additional fundamental design changes increase the safety margin against catastrophic failure even more.

And once fusion is made practical, electricity is pretty much an inexhaustible resource.

To be fair, waste disposal is an issue only because it hasn't been resolved yet. The same could be said about turbine blades.

I've always said nuclear is the way to go. They just need to cut down on costs. People need to realize that IC is terribly inefficient, we have the capacity to do better.

 

[AngryKoala]

Interesting assessment of the true pollution of ice vs ev over their lifespan. Depending on the source of electricity, the "break even" point is around 68k miles

Volvo Says Manufacturing An Electric Car Generates 70 Percent More Emissions Than Its ICE Equivalent | Carscoops

However, over the course of 124,000 miles, the EV will have a 15–50 percent lower carbon footprint than the petrol car

www.carscoops.com

Another reason green hydrogen is being promoted.

 

[deersniper]

Huh? Exploring, drilling, refining, transporting relatively unstable fuel is magnitudes harder than adding 220 volt plugs to existing gas stations or any other building that provides parking? Like the Walgreens by me that offers free charging for electric vehicles.

It's not hard at all. All it requires is additional 220 charging stations. All that requires is some $$$. There's no real tech advancement needed. Just an increase in electrical energy added to the existing system to handle the increased demand. Which is increasing regardless of electric cars or not.

And nuclear is clearly the answer for the increased demand. But that's another thread.

Are you retarded?

California is already having rolling brownouts because the grid can’t handle the current load.

And the same people pushing electric cars are shutting down power plants.

 

[deersniper]

Do you think the state of the art today will be the state of the art 5 years from now?

It's a simple question. Just needs a yes or no.

I can’t believe you of all people support .gov forced electric vehicles.

This has zero to with free markets

And Tesla wouldn’t have got to square one of not for government forces extortion forcing car makers to buy credits from Tesla

 

[deersniper]

In the very, very near future (<10 years) we will have on line nuclear fission reactors whose fuel is composed radically differently than what we do today. That difference increases the margin of safety by several orders of magnitude. Additional fundamental design changes increase the safety margin against catastrophic failure even more.

You think the idiot greenie watermelons or the commies who want to control us will allow new nuclear ?

 

[308pirate]

To be fair, waste disposal is an issue only because it hasn't been resolved yet.

As as mentioned, the problems are political not technical.

 

[308pirate]

You think the idiot greenie watermelons or the commies who want to control us will allow new nuclear ?

You're assuming they will have control forever.

Bad assumption.

 

[308pirate]

I can’t believe you of all people support .gov forced electric vehicles.

Who says I support anything being forced? Go ahead, find somewhere where I said "I agree with the government push to force carmakers to build only electric vehicles" or anything remotely similar to that.

Take as long as you need.

Just because I recognize a superior technology doesn't mean I agree with the efforts to force it on anyone.

 

[deersniper]

recognize a superior technology

Do you support electric for agriculture or logging applications?



Speaking of that electric vehicles are still laughable with the current grid considering how many farmers can’t get 3 phase to their bin sites. Not enough juice in spot of places to run legs and gas dryers but everyone in those areas is going to plug their trucks in

 

[308pirate]

Do you support electric for agriculture or logging applications?

I'm neither a farmer nor a logger so I don't give a flying fuck what they do or want.

Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

 

[deersniper]

I'm neither a farmer nor a logger so I don't give a flying fuck what they do or want.

Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

You said it’s the “superior technology “

It doesn’t win in the somewhat free market so it’s being pulled out of our wallets and shoved down our throats.


Just another tool to cut America apart and steal more liberty and treasure. Just like healthcare and and global warming. And the useful idiots continue to gobble it up

 

[Deleted member 181377]

Electric cars are racist.

Race to the Future: What to Know About the Frantic Quest for Cobalt

A New York Times investigation examines the global demand for raw materials as the clean energy revolution takes off. This is what we found.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I'm by far not an expert. Recently I did my first time ride/drive in a Tesla.

My first impression was that the concept has merit but there are a lot of caveats to that.

First thing I thought was it depends really on where you live. If you are in the city or are just doing short (mile wise) trips then it's fine.

Also if you live along the Gulf Coast it will take one hurricane to teach you a lesson. The things take around 8 hours to charge so if you are out of power for a week you are screwed.

Also there are not many places to charge it up. You can plug it in at home but don't bank on that for overnight trips.

Basically on the one I tested it can go from Houston to Dallas but when you get there you need to charge it for 8 hours before you can drive back home.

In other words the range is limited.

Specifically for trucks I don't know but if you are using it in a work environment all it will take is to forget to plug it in one night and then your whole next day is potentially over.

Gas is completely buggered on the coast after a hurricane, too. In some cases, it's easier to drive to somewhere with power than it is to find somewhere with gas.

Tesla has a huge charging network already in the US. Road trips in a Tesla are pretty easy for much of the country, and their superchargers definitely don't need 8 hours to charge your car.

 

[...]

a few things ive gathered from reading this:

1) Electric power IS in fact a far superior technology to Combustion for vehicles....there is simply no denying that....Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari are all designing supercars with Hybrid drives that blow the water out of traditional combustion engines.....

Electric motors deliver peak torque damn near instantly......they also use their power much more efficiently....and its relatively easy to recoup that energy through regenerative braking.

2) Batteries suck ass....they are heavy and incredibly environmentally damaging to produce ..but that technology is improving, and will continue to improve.

3) infrastructure sucks ass....charging ports are limited....and batteries take too long to charge.....but again, that can be improved.

4) no one in this thread agrees with FORCED anything.....and ive not seen anyone advocating for such.


is electric power viable for most people in 2021?....no
is Hybrid drive viable for most people in 2021?....absolutely
will electric power be viable for most people by 2031?....ide bet good money electric vehicles are 50% of the market by then.



regarding the environmental side of it....i dont see electric vehicles as "greener"....as i mentioned, to make lithium batteries, you are destroying the environment.....most electricity is not coming from "green" power.....and electricity has to go through several power conversions to run that electric motor....honestly, i think they might as well run on fucking chopped dolphin.

 

[Threadcutter308]

a few things ive gathered from reading this:

1) Electric power IS in fact a far superior technology to Combustion for vehicles....there is simply no denying that....Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari are all designing supercars with Hybrid drives that blow the water out of traditional combustion engines.....

Electric motors deliver peak torque damn near instantly......they also use their power much more efficiently....and its relatively easy to recoup that energy through regenerative braking.

2) Batteries suck ass....they are heavy and incredibly environmentally damaging to produce ..but that technology is improving, and will continue to improve.

3) infrastructure sucks ass....charging ports are limited....and batteries take too long to charge.....but again, that can be improved.

4) no one in this thread agrees with FORCED anything.....and ive not seen anyone advocating for such.


is electric power viable for most people in 2021?....no
is Hybrid drive viable for most people in 2021?....absolutely
will electric power be viable for most people by 2031?....ide bet good money electric vehicles are 50% of the market by then.



regarding the environmental side of it....i dont see electric vehicles as "greener"....as i mentioned, to make lithium batteries, you are destroying the environment.....most electricity is not coming from "green" power.....and electricity has to go through several power conversions to run that electric motor....honestly, i think they might as well run on fucking chopped dolphin.

You might find “KERS” systems in Formula 1 cars to be of interest. Short story is that all Formula 1 cars are Hybrid and they have been for quite some time. Hybrids are quicker into corners (addition of Regen braking) and out of corners (electric motors/quicker application of acceleration torque).

 

[pmclaine]

But will it ever really be yours and yours alone?

Elon Musk apologises for Tesla app issue

The fault, attributed to an accidental network change by Tesla staff, struck worldwide, with complaints tweeted from countries including the UK, US and Korea.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

But will it ever really be yours and yours alone?

Elon Musk apologises for Tesla app issue

The fault, attributed to an accidental network change by Tesla staff, struck worldwide, with complaints tweeted from countries including the UK, US and Korea.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Other cars have similar potential issues due to app integration, and it's slowly coming to more and more of them. It's one of the reasons Teslas comes with backup key cards.

Edit to add - it also only affected people that didn't set up using their phone as a key (as opposed to remotely unlocking through the app) AND that didn't have a key card with them. As long as you had one of those two, you were fine.

 

[308pirate]

You said it’s the “superior technology “

I'll take you seriously when you can have an intelligent conversation about a technology/engineering topic without resorting to strawmen and out of context quotes.

Come to think of it, you don't seem capable of understanding this technology and the many vectors that it takes to commercialize it, nor the possible timelines that it will take which will vary with, among other factors, the particular market segment in discussion.

So I guess we won't have any more conversations around this topic.

 

[308pirate]

a few things ive gathered from reading this:

1) Electric power IS in fact a far superior technology to Combustion for vehicles....there is simply no denying that....Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari are all designing supercars with Hybrid drives that blow the water out of traditional combustion engines.....

Electric motors deliver peak torque damn near instantly......they also use their power much more efficiently....and its relatively easy to recoup that energy through regenerative braking.

2) Batteries suck ass....they are heavy and incredibly environmentally damaging to produce ..but that technology is improving, and will continue to improve.

3) infrastructure sucks ass....charging ports are limited....and batteries take too long to charge.....but again, that can be improved.

4) no one in this thread agrees with FORCED anything.....and ive not seen anyone advocating for such.


is electric power viable for most people in 2021?....no
is Hybrid drive viable for most people in 2021?....absolutely
will electric power be viable for most people by 2031?....ide bet good money electric vehicles are 50% of the market by then.



regarding the environmental side of it....i dont see electric vehicles as "greener"....as i mentioned, to make lithium batteries, you are destroying the environment.....most electricity is not coming from "green" power.....and electricity has to go through several power conversions to run that electric motor....honestly, i think they might as well run on fucking chopped dolphin.

You forgot one bullet point: several here don't seem to have the intellectual horsepower to understand what we're talking about.

 

[...]

the thing people need to realize....mass consumer electric cars are really only 20 yrs old..

to compare this to the combustion engine, in automotive history, you would be looking at the cars of the 1920-1930's...where 50hp and 8mpg were the norm....and there wasnt a fucking Shell station on every street corner....

also realize....usable Lithium batteries are really only 30yrs old...give it a few years and yall will be clamoring for that new 2000hp E-Mustang.

 

[Rthur]

You forgot one bullet point: several here don't seem to have the intellectual horsepower to understand what we're talking about.

Give me a dissertation on energy density of ice 20 gallon tank to equivalent battery requirements.

R

 

[308pirate]

Give me a dissertation on energy density of ice 20 gallon tank to equivalent battery requirements.

R

I will when you give me one comparing powertrain losses as a % of energy input for ICE, PM, and Cu induction powerplants.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Are you retarded?

California is already having rolling brownouts because the grid can’t handle the current load.

And the same people pushing electric cars are shutting down power plants.

No, I'm not retarded. I'm also not stuck in a political bubble where everything supported by the "other side" isn't immediately considered a stupid idea or that its benefits are purely political. Step out of your angry political bubble and discuss the pros/cons of electric vehicles vs. ICE vehicles. My one and only concern is "what is better for me.".

I clearly qualified my statement as well. I'm fully aware of the issues of supplying enough electricity. That IS a political problem and I'm not interested in that discussion. I'm concerned with "what is possible using real world solutions?". In my mind EVs trump ICEs in almost all use situations with some clear cons to the EVs. Particularly range and recharging infrastructure. Adding charging stations is "magnitudes" simpler than adding gas stations when the ICE engine driven vehicles overtook the horse and carriage. It's actually quite simple as I stated in my original post. It really is as easy as adding a 220 outlet with the proper plug(s).

Providing enough energy to power all those EVs is also pretty easy once you clear the political hurdles. IOW, it's possible. Quite possible.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Make me a list of all the states adding nuclear production in the next 5-10 years.
The plug in is the easy part, where it's generated and how isn't.

R

2023 according to this link.

Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide - World Nuclear Association

Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide. Information on the growth of global nuclear capacity with a table showing all under construction reactors.

www.world-nuclear.org

 

[AngryKoala]

So much dick measuring in here.....where's gayguns when you need him.

 

[Rthur]

2023 according to this link.

Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide - World Nuclear Association

Plans for New Nuclear Reactors Worldwide. Information on the growth of global nuclear capacity with a table showing all under construction reactors.

www.world-nuclear.org

By your list only one in the US.
Here is an article about the others.

The demise of US nuclear power in 4 charts

Commercial nuclear reactors provide roughly one-fifth of the electricity produced in the US. But they face grave threats to their continued operation.

theconversation.com

R

 

[Jefe's Dope]

By your list only one in the US.
Here is an article about the others.

The demise of US nuclear power in 4 charts

Commercial nuclear reactors provide roughly one-fifth of the electricity produced in the US. But they face grave threats to their continued operation.

theconversation.com

R

You asked for an example, I provided one. Keep moving the goal post.

 

[Rthur]

You asked for an example, I provided one. Keep moving the goal post.

If you would have read closely to my previous post it states directly in the "states".

R

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Make me a list of all the states adding nuclear production in the next 5-10 years.
The plug in is the easy part, where it's generated and how isn't.

R

If you would have read closely to my previous post it states directly in the "states".

R

I did read your post. The link shows one plant coming online in 2023 in the "Southern USA". One makes a list. Albeit a short one. 2023 is in two years, so I technically didn't reach your "5-10" year timeline. How many more semantics do you want to argue?

 

[dzander]

Here's a good one. A group of people from one of my accounts went to visit a company in California.
They pull into the parking lot and see a line of Electric vehicles all plugged into chargers. There is a log high bank behind the charging stations. As there walking past the line of cars they here a humming noise. One of the guys said I wonder what's making the noise. It's coming from behind the embankment. He walks around behind the mound and there are diesel engines running generators to provide the electric to the chargers.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Ford, watch their stock. It's been moving.

 

[TXAZ]

Here's a good one. A group of people from one of my accounts went to visit a company in California.
They pull into the parking lot and see a line of Electric vehicles all plugged into chargers. There is a log high bank behind the charging stations. As there walking past the line of cars they here a humming noise. One of the guys said I wonder what's making the noise. It's coming from behind the embankment. He walks around behind the mound and there are diesel engines running generators to provide the electric to the chargers.

A little more Kali-hypocrisy.
And ironically, that’s what it’s going to take to meet the Kali goal.

 

[Redmanss]

I did read your post. The link shows one plant coming online in 2023 in the "Southern USA". One makes a list. Albeit a short one. 2023 is in two years, so I technically didn't reach your "5-10" year timeline. How many more semantics do you want to argue?

15 years and $28B, and still won't be operational for a couple years, then only at 2302 MW for that amount of capital investment and delays? Yeah, that's going to save our power generation deficit...

 

[deersniper]

I'll take you seriously when you can have an intelligent conversation about a technology/engineering topic without resorting to strawmen and out of context quotes.

Come to think of it, you don't seem capable of understanding this technology and the many vectors that it takes to commercialize it, nor the possible timelines that it will take which will vary with, among other factors, the particular market segment in discussion.

So I guess we won't have any more conversations around this topic.

Get out of your lab. Your crap doesn’t work in the real world without a pile of extra money stolen from the tax slave

 

[beetroot]

Have you guys learned nothing from aerospace? Parker Aerospace is one of my customers. Their motors are running in the 6 - 12K RPM range in severe conditions.

Interesting you bring up aerospace.
I don't know much about a detailed material properties and that mechanical engineering crap but I do know a fair bit about civil aviation.
Specifically the 787 and it's move away from bleed air systems and towards electrification.

In short it's a big pile of shit.

Basically the whole air conditioning system is now electric motors running pumps and compressors and it is all garbage, basically every new part of the air conditioning system that replaces bleed air fails regularly. Compared to old school planes the 787 is an absolute nightmare and will keep me employed for a long long time. I know EVs are not the same thing as a Dreamliners air conditioning system, but it does shed some light on the realities of EVs once you step away from a Nissan Leaf.

I'm not anti EVs, if I could buy one that suited my needs I would save a lot of money on fuel. But I'm not convinced just because something is electric it's inherently better.

I think aerospace will be what saves the ICE, with current technology and anything that is currently suggested, long haul flying and carrying lots of people and freight will see the use of fossil fuels until an alternative liquid fuel is discovered. Once that works in aircraft and ships there's no reason for it not to work in cars and trucks.

I forsee EVs being used widely in cities and for commuters but I think PHEV is a better way to go for a lot of people and will likely be better for anything that travels long distance or operates in remote/rural areas.

 

[BAMAboy18]

A younger, hungry entrepreneur could start a network of support stations along interstates/Hwys to do quick change batteries. Still nothing I'd be interested in. Shit I still don't have stable access to internet at my home and it's 2021. I can jump in my truck here in LA (Lower Alabama) drive to brothers in Ashville NC on 1 tank of gas, with the added optional convenience of refilling in a few minutes, and drive back home on another tank of petro. Studies coming out show EV operating costs exceed petroleum. We're a ways away yet for them to be viable for a layman. Now what might be of interest is building a drag car/truck, My .02...

 

[308pirate]

basically every new part of the air conditioning system that replaces bleed air fails regularly.

There's zero correlation between what you say and what we're talking about here unless you want to get very specific.

 

[Major Wader]

Make a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car and have the current fuel stations dispense hydrogen.

Except that over 97% of the hydrogen produced in the USA is a byproduct of the hydrocracking process used to make fuel from crude oil.

Hydrogen from water molecules is a net energy loss with today's technology.

Where did all the gas stations come from?

Only a result of over 120 years of petroleum infrastructure.

 

[AngryKoala]

Except that over 97% of the hydrogen produced in the USA is a byproduct of the hydrocracking process used to make fuel from crude oil.

Hydrogen from water molecules is a net energy loss with today's technology.



Only a result of over 120 years of petroleum infrastructure.

I think they are labeling that "blue" hydrogen and there are some other ways such as methane conversion, biomass conversion ect. However, these are not "green" processes.

 

[Stevo86]

I thought about one for a minute...

Then I ordered an f350 with the 7.3 Godzilla engine and 4.30 gears...

We just purchased 2 F350 srw 4x4. What mileage you getting?

 

[308pirate]

Only a result of over 120 years of petroleum infrastructure.

And it might take that long to convert that HC fuel grid to something else, but I doubt that it will. I'll bet it'll take 50 years for the conversion to be complete and it will most likely be a mixture of electric and hydrogen.

 

[Guthwine]

As Kaiser Wilhelm once said: “I believe in the horse. The automobile is just a temporary phenomenon.”

Too many people know what's impossible without knowing all the facts. Don't be like Wilhelm.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

A younger, hungry entrepreneur could start a network of support stations along interstates/Hwys to do quick change batteries. Still nothing I'd be interested in. Shit I still don't have stable access to internet at my home and it's 2021. I can jump in my truck here in LA (Lower Alabama) drive to brothers in Ashville NC on 1 tank of gas, with the added optional convenience of refilling in a few minutes, and drive back home on another tank of petro. Studies coming out show EV operating costs exceed petroleum. We're a ways away yet for them to be viable for a layman. Now what might be of interest is building a drag car/truck, My .02...

Battery swaps would require the car being built for it to begin with. Tesla flirted with the idea at one point but scrapped it, likely due to complexity.

I call bullshit on the claims of EVs having higher operating costs than ICE. The couple of studies I have seen claiming it had an obvious slant and were adding in extra costs to the EV while ignoring the same thing on ICE.

Side note - Starlink is in the process of fixing your internet problem.

 

[pmclaine]

Except that over 97% of the hydrogen produced in the USA is a byproduct of the hydrocracking process used to make fuel from crude oil.

Hydrogen from water molecules is a net energy loss with today's technology.



Only a result of over 120 years of petroleum infrastructure.

Since when has any of this had to make sense?

Right now its all about lipstick on a pig.

If you want a car to push you into the rear seat from the front you want an electric vehicle.

That should be the selling point and damn the means to make that happen.

but now its being sold as a band-aid for something unrelated and while trying to hide the fact it will actually contribute to that which it is intended to cure.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Since when has any of this had to make sense?

Right now its all about lipstick on a pig.

If you want a car to push you into the rear seat from the front you want an electric vehicle.

That should be the selling point and damn the means to make that happen.

but now its being sold as a band-aid for something unrelated and while trying to hide the fact it will actually contribute to that which it is intended to cure.

Doing it to people that either aren't expecting it or don't know it is even possible is hilarious.

"Hey, is your head on the head rest??"

 

[deersniper]

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

<snip>

Yeah, because being a liberal or screaming about the environment are the only reasons people buy EVs.

Meanwhile, the enviro loons were the reason we don't have shitloads of carbon neutral power to begin with since they were the ones that protested nuclear power a few decades back.

 

[Bacarrat]

Being pro EV and being a tree hugger isn't mutually exclusive. Some people can't wrap their heads around that one. I know plenty of car people that drive around hot rods and race cars that drive a EV as a daily.

 

[rjacobs]

We just purchased 2 F350 srw 4x4. What mileage you getting?

0... dont have the truck yet. Probably not until March.

Im HOPING for 15 on the highway LOL...