Electric Trucks

[308pirate]

Yeah, because being a liberal or screaming about the environment are the only reasons people buy EVs.

Meanwhile, the enviro loons were the reason we don't have shitloads of carbon neutral power to begin with since they were the ones that protested nuclear power a few decades back.

The guy you're talking to seems unable to evaluate anything through any lens that isn't politics. You're wasting your time.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

The guy you're talking to seems unable to evaluate anything through any lens that isn't politics. You're wasting your time.

I know, but maybe someone else will benefit.

 

[deersniper]

The guy you're talking to seems unable to evaluate anything through any lens that isn't politics. You're wasting your time.

Do what ever you want

Don’t force me to pay for it in the form of higher electric prices , brownouts, mileage taxes, higher priced vehicles because they are extorted to pay Tesla money etc

 

[W54/XM-388]

The Ford F150 Hybrid is also an interesting option if you wanted to get that now and wait 5 or so years until electric trucks are actually ready for prime time.
They have the all electric F150 but that's like many other things, range, recharge time, recharge availability etc...

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Do what ever you want

Don’t force me to pay for it in the form of higher electric prices , brownouts, mileage taxes, higher priced vehicles because they are extorted to pay Tesla money etc

In most of the country (Excepting places like Cali that have already had their power grid hosed by mismanagement and environmentalists), EVs aren't going to make a significant impact on power usage or prices. The mobile connector that comes with a Tesla maxes out at 240v/32a, and a significant number of people are charging on 120v/15a. You can get a high power wall charger that can theoretically pull up to 240v/80a, but I've not even heard of anyone going that high, and most owners either charge with the mobile connector mentioned above, or use public chargers.

Using the mobile connector on a 120v household outlet pulls about the same power as a high end gaming computer. Even if you're on a 40-50a 240v line, it pulls less than most people's ovens.

As for the "Tesla extortion" you can blame the federal government for that due to their tax credit system.

The Ford F150 Hybrid is also an interesting option if you wanted to get that now and wait 5 or so years until electric trucks are actually ready for prime time.
They have the all electric F150 but that's like many other things, range, recharge time, recharge availability etc...

The last info I saw on expected production of the all electric F150 was... well, ugly. As in it will take them something like 4-5 years just to get through their claimed preorders. I think the first year of production was estimated to only be something like 5k trucks.

 

[Eli17L]

I am sick of all the maintenance on my ICE vehicles and equipment and the government has stolen all joy out of them.
Ford and GM are woke so no more of those.
Tri-motor cybertruck on order.
500-750 mile range
14-20k towing.
Stainless steel thick enough to stop 9mm.
16 inches of ground clearance on 35 inch tires stock.
I have solar at the ranch and in town.
I can't produce gasoline but I can electricity.
I expect it will be my last vehicle.
I do have concerns of it being connected to a AI higher power but Musk is anti government so I hope he has a disconnect switch on that. I know its not required for the vehicle to function.
He did take that off as a requirement on his home solar systems.

 

[Tims]

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Yeah right, no children ever employed in the mining of coal in this country.

 

[Maxduty]

My biggest concern with EVs, particularly trucks is that their weight doesn't seem conducive to the off roading I do. I have a mountain trail about two miles long that needs to be crawled to get up or down it. Then there's the creek crossings. Add in a down pour and the trail becomes more difficult for a light truck, with heavier full sizes just getting stuck and left til it dries. As this is my hog hunting cabin, I go there fairly frequently.

My second concern is towing and hills. Oklahoma is not flat. I have no first hand experience, but general claims have been made that towing a boat to the lake up and down hills significantly affects driving range.

@308pirate What is your take on this?

 

[JuniperEyes]

lol.... go buy one! Like we didnt tell you

 

[Bacarrat]

View attachment 7746778

Tesla, Panasonic and Samsung has phased out cobalt from their batteries.

 

[308pirate]

My biggest concern with EVs, particularly trucks is that their weight doesn't seem conducive to the off roading I do. I have a mountain trail about two miles long that needs to be crawled to get up or down it. Then there's the creek crossings. Add in a down pour and the trail becomes more difficult for a light truck, with heavier full sizes just getting stuck and left til it dries. As this is my hog hunting cabin, I go there fairly frequently.

My second concern is towing and hills. Oklahoma is not flat. I have no first hand experience, but general claims have been made that towing a boat to the lake up and down hills significantly affects driving range.

@308pirate What is your take on this?

I have no take on any of that. I don't need nor own a truck.

You'll have to ask Ford.

 

[Eli17L]

The c

My biggest concern with EVs, particularly trucks is that their weight doesn't seem conducive to the off roading I do. I have a mountain trail about two miles long that needs to be crawled to get up or down it. Then there's the creek crossings. Add in a down pour and the trail becomes more difficult for a light truck, with heavier full sizes just getting stuck and left til it dries. As this is my hog hunting cabin, I go there fairly frequently.

My second concern is towing and hills. Oklahoma is not flat. I have no first hand experience, but general claims have been made that towing a boat to the lake up and down hills significantly affects driving range.

@308pirate What is your take on this?

The cybertruck weighs the same as a F250 but comes with 16 inches of clearance and comes with 35s from the factory.
Flat underneath with nothing to hang up and waterproof...
And if slide into a tree rock or fence no damage done!
Towing will be a factor on range. Musk had suggested it wouldn't be a problem but with inflation I bet there will be an upgrade required to get the towing range up there.

 

[Maxduty]

I have no take on any of that. I don't need nor own a truck.

You'll have to ask Ford.

Ok. Fair enough. How about the replacement costs of batteries? The equivalent of replacing a motor every 8 to 10 ten years. How does the cost offset the advantages of city driving?

 

[Desert_Racer]

Can anyone with an EV speak to how much their electricity bill went up charging their fagwagon every night?

 

[Eli17L]

They are at 1500 cycles at 500 miles each now.
2000 cycles expected out of new designs.
That's a lot of miles my current trucks are dead at 150k miles now although might get 200k out of my wifes f150 but it will need a lot of maintenance to get there.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Tesla, Panasonic and Samsung has phased out cobalt from their batteries.

And the base version of the Model 3 has gone to LFP batteries which use less lithium and can be charged to 100% on a daily basis. Down side is they're less energy dense, so you have more weight for the same capacity. That's no big deal on the base model 3s, though.

Can anyone with an EV speak to how much their electricity bill went up charging their fagwagon every night?

Depends on how much you drive, just like gas. My commute went from ~$10 gas per day to ~$2.50 in electricity.

And my "fagwagon" still smokes most muscle cars out of a stoplight.

 

[deersniper]

They are at 1500 cycles at 500 miles each now.
2000 cycles expected out of new designs.
That's a lot of miles my current trucks are dead at 150k miles now although might get 200k out of my wifes f150 but it will need a lot of maintenance to get there.

lol I have a couple trucks with 250-300+ on them

 

[Bacarrat]

lol I have a couple trucks with 250-300+ on them

Now if you add up the money on repairs (not maintenance) for a normal ICE vehicle with that many miles it's going to be more then a EV with a battery replacement. Unless you can work on your own vehicle. I see repair cost all day from around North America and can say it's not cheap always having to send your car in to shops for stupid little repairs. If I didn't know shit about working on cars, I would probably have gotten rid of my old beater Accord years ago. But it's at 320k miles, and about the only thing I haven't fixed myself is the transmission which let go right at 300k.

 

[Tims]

Yeah right, no children ever employed in the mining of coal in this country.

So it bothers you that kids are being exploited to mine lithium and cobalt for electric car batteries. It should.

Can anyone with an EV speak to how much their electricity bill went up charging their fagwagon every night?

Just do the math . For example if you have a 40 kilowatt hour battery in your electric car and charge it 5 times a month you will add 200 kilowatt to your electric bill. Then figure out what you pay per kWh . BTW I don't have an electric (coal powered) car.

 

[Jethro3898]

My biggest concern with EVs, particularly trucks is that their weight doesn't seem conducive to the off roading I do. I have a mountain trail about two miles long that needs to be crawled to get up or down it. Then there's the creek crossings. Add in a down pour and the trail becomes more difficult for a light truck, with heavier full sizes just getting stuck and left til it dries. As this is my hog hunting cabin, I go there fairly frequently.

My second concern is towing and hills. Oklahoma is not flat. I have no first hand experience, but general claims have been made that towing a boat to the lake up and down hills significantly affects driving range.

I agree about the weight. It was something I thought about too.

We don't really have a direct comparison quite yet (i.e. F-150 Lightning vs F-150 "normal" truck), but:
1. A Rivian R1T weighs approximately 7,100 lbs.
2. An F-150 Lightning is reported to have a curb weight of approximately 6,500 lbs.
3. An F-150 Supercrew 4x4 w/ 3.5L Ecoboost weights approximately 5,200 lbs with a full fuel load.
4. An F-150 Raptor Supercrew weighs approximately 6,100 lbs with a full fuel load.
5. A Chevy Crew Cab 4x4 Trail Boss weighs approximately 5,225 lbs with a full fuel load.
6. An F-250 SWB Supercrew 4x4 w/ Powerstroke weighs approximately 7,250 lbs with a full fuel load.

In other words: weight-wise, an all electric truck would be similar to an F-250, GM 2500, etc. I would think that the weight would be more centralized to the chassis, versus being nose-heavy like an ICE powered truck.

The Rivian R1T has a towing capacity of 11,000 lbs.
The Ford Lightning has a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs.
The Tesla Cybertruck supposedly has a towing capacity of 14,000 lbs.
And yes.....you can bet that towing would significantly impact the range.

The performance from each of these trucks should be pretty amazing. Let's face it, the VAST majority of truck owners rarely, if ever, tow anything. They just need something to pick up some bales of pinestraw, some lumber, a few bags of fertilizer, maybe throw a deer in the back, etc. Everyday performance from electric cars is already superior (IMO) to ICE-powered cars. Maybe not when we are talking about comparing a Tesla to a Porsche or Mercedes, but if you are comparing a Tesla to a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry, etc.....they are pretty amazing. Electric cars do have their limitations, but the gap is closing rapidly.

One thing is certain: At this time, an all-electric truck isn't the solution for everyone. Until technology catches up, ICE powered trucks will rule the market. But the technology and infrastructure is constantly improving and the gap is closing with every iteration. I doubt ICE powered vehicles will go the way of the dodo in my lifetime, but their market share will continue to decrease as electric vehicles improve and the performance benchmarks equalize between them and ICE. Right now, electric isn't the "seat for every butt" some people want to act like they are......but pretty soon they might be.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I agree about the weight. It was something I thought about too.

<SNIP>

One thing is certain: At this time, an all-electric truck isn't the solution for everyone. Until technology catches up, ICE powered trucks will rule the market. But the technology and infrastructure is constantly improving and the gap is closing with every iteration. I doubt ICE powered vehicles will go the way of the dodo in my lifetime, but their market share will continue to decrease as electric vehicles improve and the performance benchmarks equalize between them and ICE. Right now, electric isn't the "seat for every butt" some people want to act like they are......but pretty soon they might be.

Well said, my friend.

The biggest issues I have with most conversations around EVs are the amount of FUD that gets spread around either based on BS or old/irrelevant data, and the number of times you see people just slinging memes they found on the internet with no understanding of context or real world applications. I have no problems with legitimate criticism of EVs, and there's room for such criticism. However, the BS flinging gets old (and honestly, it's old across all topics for me, not just EVs).

EVs definitely aren't the end-all/be-all, and we're not going to be 100% away from fossil fuels for a LONG time. It'll be a long transition, but it will definitely be a beneficial one for a lot of folks. I made the switch earlier this year, and it's been amazing for commuting and road trips.

 

[MrSmith]

Does anyone make an EV that allows the vehicle battery to double as a storage battery that could be used to augment night power to a home and solar charged during the day? And driven as needed.

Thank you,
MrSmith

 

[Eli17L]

lol I have a couple trucks with 250-300+ on them

They fall apart on me. To much off road use. They finally stop and I decide to move on. They are lined up behind the barn for parts.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Does anyone make an EV that allows the vehicle battery to double as a storage battery that could be used to augment night power to a home and solar charged during the day? And driven as needed.

Thank you,
MrSmith

Cybertruck is planned to have it. I'm assuming it's going to use something similar to the controller for a Tesla Powerwall to manage it if you used it for Vehicle-to-Grid power. I think the F150 Lightning is supposed to, also, but no idea how the home interface is going to work on that.

 

[Eli17L]

Does anyone make an EV that allows the vehicle battery to double as a storage battery that could be used to augment night power to a home and solar charged during the day? And driven as needed.

Thank you,
MrSmith

I think Ford is the only one advertising that but all of them have 110 outlets.
It would be a big bonus feature in my book.

 

[308pirate]

Ok. Fair enough. How about the replacement costs of batteries? The equivalent of replacing a motor every 8 to 10 ten years. How does the cost offset the advantages of city driving?

I guess you got your answer already.

But if you were genuinely interested and not trying to play gotcha you would do your own research.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I guess you got your answer already.

But if you were genuinely interested and not trying to play gotcha you would do your own research.

Plus nobody considers the idea that when you do have to replace the battery in an EV (Well, at least in a Tesla...) due to age and use, you'll likely be getting a significantly better battery in terms of energy density and possibly capacity. It'll be a whole lot simpler than a complete engine swap, too.

 

[Eli17L]

Plus nobody considers the idea that when you do have to replace the battery in an EV (Well, at least in a Tesla...) due to age and use, you'll likely be getting a significantly better battery in terms of energy density and possibly capacity. It'll be a whole lot simpler than a complete engine swap, too.

That and those batteries at that point make fantastic home back up power.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

That and those batteries at that point make fantastic home back up power.

Yep. Plus Tesla is already over 90% reclamation on recycled batteries, despite how many people still think that dead batteries are just going to be filling up junkyards, landfills, or warehouses.

 

[Major Wader]

Yeah right, no children ever employed in the mining of coal in this country.

Not in the last 100 years or so. Child labor laws stopped that, but we all know that other countries, including China, don't have the same concerns that we do about child welfare.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Does anyone make an EV that allows the vehicle battery to double as a storage battery that could be used to augment night power to a home and solar charged during the day? And driven as needed.

Thank you,
MrSmith

Here’s How You Can Use the Ford F-150 Lightning to Power Your Home in the Event of a Power Outage

The Ford F-150 Lightning changes the game for Ford. Here's how one of its more interesting features works.

www.autoweek.com

 

[W54/XM-388]

doesn't really seem like the ford options are ready for the working man that is hauling tractor/bobcat/equipment yet just due to charging time. limited range, and limited availability of charging areas

i'm sure someone could rig up a generator to charge it if you really wanted to go electric if you wanted the tax incentives and potentially lower maintenance costs for a little light duty pickup

Well, if you want to be fair about "ready for the working man" you might as well cross the Tesla off the list first since it's nowhere near production and the price will be way out of what "the working man" can afford.

Also if you are hauling a tractor/bobcat around for work, you might be using something higher up the line than the F150, you are probably in the F250/F350 type user class.

 

[SouthFLShootin]

I have a camaro that will make just shy of 1k hp love ICE engines and I'd buy an electric truck tomorrow if they could make one with a 600 mile range and tow 10k lbs and charge in 5-10 mins. But I don't live in a rural area, and I rarely have to tow anything heavier than 7-8k lbs.

The main long term problem I see is with the current batteries and how to dispose of them. We need a better type of storage solution that charges quicker and is more energy dense. As far as recyling, Tesla actually does a pretty good job of this recently, but they are about the only ones doing it. Only 5% of lithium ion batteries globally are recycled. Same thing with solar panels and turbine blades. These may work well when only early adopters are using the technology. But when implemented to a mass scale, creates some issues.

I can't get over the look of the cyber truck, and I have a feeling many of the selling points of the prototype will not be part of the production vehicle, or will be available at much higher cost than initially reported. Tesla has a habit of making claims that it doesn't back up, or does so much further down the road. This truck was announced in Nov. 2019, not even scheduled for production until late 2022, and I wouldn't hold my breathe. Ask all the people with 2020 Tesla roadster reservations how much fun it is has been driving their cars the past two years. With the roadster, there isn't even actual video footage of the car producing the advertised numbers anywhere either. Not saying it is impossible, but what better marketing could you ask for than a roadster ripping off a sub 9 second pass with 0-60 under 1 second and spanking super cars at Nurburgring.

 

[TXAZ]

So it bothers you that kids are being exploited to mine lithium and cobalt for electric car batteries. It should.


Just do the math . For example if you have a 40 kilowatt hour battery in your electric car and charge it 5 times a month you will add 200 kilowatt to your electric bill. Then figure out what you pay per kWh . BTW I don't have an electric (coal powered) car.

Good point. I do have a 15KW solar array, installed for this purpose (and the 30% tax credit )

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm sort of thinking about somewhere like a building material business or a lumber yard where they mostly use the teledyne trucks with the forklift on the back for their deliveries to the builders/contractors

Charging time is going to be a big deal so you don't spend half your time during the day re-charging. You'd have to have twice as many trucks to get your deliveries out on time unless they really improve charging time.

I'm guessing for that use, Tesla will be pushing this:

Semi | Tesla

Tesla Semi is a fully electric semi truck with active safety features, massive range and a spacious interior designed for maximum visibility.

www.tesla.com

Which is like super far from production (if ever)

 

[Eli17L]

Well, if you want to be fair about "ready for the working man" you might as well cross the Tesla off the list first since it's nowhere near production and the price will be way out of what "the working man" can afford.

Also if you are hauling a tractor/bobcat around for work, you might be using something higher up the line than the F150, you are probably in the F250/F350 type user class.

Well the CT is a 3/4 ton and is cheaper than any 3/4 ton on the market I have found.

 

[Eli17L]

I'm guessing for that use, Tesla will be pushing this:

Semi | Tesla

Tesla Semi is a fully electric semi truck with active safety features, massive range and a spacious interior designed for maximum visibility.

www.tesla.com

Which is like super far from production (if ever)

They are delivering to Pepsi now but in very limited numbers.

 

[NovaHunter]

The Ford F150 EV truck with the ability to send power to your home as act as a backup battery is the first EV I've been intrigued with:

2022 Ford F-150 Lightning is an electric pickup that can power your house for days

Intelligent Backup Power can send juice from the Lightning's battery into your home's electrical system in a blackout, no extension cords required.

www.google.com

If I get a solar system, I can generate my own electricity. For potential off-grid applications it seems an EV truck such as this could be a very useful system.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Well the CT is a 3/4 ton and is cheaper than any 3/4 ton on the market I have found.

Hard to say considering the actual final price for the CT is still to actually be determined.
As I recall with their other models, the actual price of the ones you could get at production tended to be a fair bit higher than the "entry model starting cost" they advertised.

I'm pretty sure by the time they are actually shipping, they will cost a fair bit more than your average available standard F150/F250 models.

 

[Eli17L]

Hard to say considering the actual final price for the CT is still to actually be determined.
As I recall with their other models, the actual price of the ones you could get at production tended to be a fair bit higher than the "entry model starting cost" they advertised.

I'm pretty sure by the time they are actually shipping, they will cost a fair bit more than your average available standard F150/F250 models.

Tesla price increases typically in the 5% range but included more features. But everything I see shows F and GM going up in price just as fast.
I was shopping for a new truck this week and the prices are insane and way over MSRP I don't see them coming down anytime soon.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Tesla price increases typically in the 5% range but included more features. But everything I see shows F and GM going up in price just as fast.
I was shopping for a new truck this week and the prices are insane and way over MSRP I don't see them coming down anytime soon.

From my checking the reports on the backend production parts, I would suggest that in about 6 to 8 months you'll see the truck and SUV prices go back to where you can get them at MSRP or get deals below that.

Now the big unknown is of course inflation and the economy.

 

[Eli17L]

From my checking the reports on the backend production parts, I would suggest that in about 6 to 8 months you'll see the truck and SUV prices go back to where you can get them at MSRP or get deals below that.

Now the big unknown is of course inflation and the economy.

I thought ford was moving to a build to order model? I don't see that helping things.

 

[Bacarrat]

I priced out the top of the line 3 motor CT and it was 69k... add on FSD for another 10k. But they have taken down preorders. Good thing with Tesla is there is no dealer markup since they don't have any.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I thought ford was moving to a build to order model? I don't see that helping things.

They will have all their chip problems sorted out for good pretty soon.
The build to order system if they get it running well will actually make it a lot quicker / easier to get what you want.
Dealers will still stock what they know sells well for those not wishing to wait.

 

[Eli17L]

The future will be interesting. I decided never again for F or GM do to them going extreme WOKE.
Whent to Ram online built out a 2500 in a suitable configuration and they said 68k. Sent it to the closest dealer and said order it for me please and they said sure that will be 87k!!!
Called my mechanic and said schedule some time to go through my F350 plan on fixing everything. Probably 8k in stuff that was just going to put into a new truck and just use the old truck on the ranch but now I want 5 more years out of it.

 

[rjacobs]

I was shopping for a new truck this week and the prices are insane and way over MSRP I don't see them coming down anytime soon.

I thought ford was moving to a build to order model? I don't see that helping things.

Order from Granger Ford. Invoice -2%. I would have to look at my order sheet, but I think it was ~5k off MSRP on an F350 Lariat. Fly and drive. They dont force you into anything(financing, warranty, etc...).

 

[Maxduty]

I guess you got your answer already.

But if you were genuinely interested and not trying to play gotcha you would do your own research.

I guess if you don't really know then you don't know. And I still don't have my answer. A diesel F250 won't get to the cabin and back. Not even on 40s with an actual articulating suspension.

 

[Eli17L]

Order from Granger Ford. Invoice -2%. I would have to look at my order sheet, but I think it was ~5k off MSRP on an F350 Lariat. Fly and drive. They dont force you into anything(financing, warranty, etc...).

They are much cheaper than local...

 

[Eli17L]

I guess if you don't really know then you don't know. And I still don't have my answer. A diesel F250 won't get to the cabin and back. Not even on 40s with an actual articulating suspension.

Heck I thought my place was bad needing 35s LOL
The CT has better ground clearance so I expect better and it dosen't deferentials hanging down to drag.