Hunting & Fishing Elk Hunters

[lightsareout]

I've been thinking/researching for quiet some time on this and just cannot make up my mind. I am looking to put together an elk gun. I've always lived in the midwest; and now Tennessee so some of my analysis may be incorrect as I've never hunted elk before.

I am under the assumption that most shot opportunities will be under 300 yards; however part of me is fighting the notion that I need to be ready for a longer shot in both caliber and skill (range time).

My goal is to keep the set up under 8lbs.

I have narrowed it down to 3 calibers

308 - Randy Newerg swears by this round for elk; with good ammo it looks like it has the needed knock down power based on my criteria above
6.5 CM - Very mixed reviews on this round for elk; some people swear by it and others won't touch it. Again I believe this comes down to quality ammo/projectile. Very appealing when looking at wind drift.
7 mm mag - Just can't go wrong with the 7mm, but this may end up pushing my weight goal and also reduce range time.

I am not in a position to buy multiple guns right now. I am in the market to build a nice gun with these goals in mind.

Thanks for any input on this!

 

[coldboremiracle]

I am under the assumption that most shot opportunities will be under 300 yards; however part of me is fighting the notion that I need to be ready for a longer shot in both caliber and skill (range time).

That is a safe assumption, but depending on where you will be hunting, that could easily double, or perhaps triple.

308 - Randy Newerg swears by this round for elk; with good ammo it looks like it has the needed knock down power based on my criteria above

No idea who that is, but according to your listed criteria, he is right. A 308 is plenty of elk medicine if you plan on shooting 5-600 yards.

6.5 CM - Very mixed reviews on this round for elk; some people swear by it and others won't touch it.

Any of the SA 6.5's will work just fine on elk provided the next issue is addressed:

Again I believe this comes down to quality ammo/projectile.

Almost... shot placement far outweighs the type of ammo/projectile. Your skill and ability to put the shot in the right spot is far more important than the type of bullet. Your ability to practice and become proficient may also have much to do with your caliber choice.

 

[COlongrange16]

Of those three keeping weight in mind I would go with the 6.5. I live in Colorado and prefer a.300 wsm but my friend took a bull this year with a 6.5 using 140 grain Bergers at 370 yards. One shot high shoulder. Coldbore is right on about shot placement. Good luck on the build.

 

[big_matt_duq]

If you reload the 6.5 saum is pretty nasty but brass and dies aren't cheap. Saw a post somewhere that a guy was killing everything with it including some big bears. I also have a lightweight 7wsm that fits with what you are talking about. I wouldn't pick 7wsm now since brass is almost nonexistent but factory ammo is around. 300 wsm would make a great do all rifle in my opinion. Coldboremiracle knows how to lay out some elk so I would definitely listen to what he weighs in with. Both of these guys know more than me. Lately I only take rifles on long walks. Haven't had much luck finding animals I want to shoot the last few years.

 

[lightsareout]

Almost... shot placement far outweighs the type of ammo/projectile. Your skill and ability to put the shot in the right spot is far more important than the type of bullet. Your ability to practice and become proficient may also have much to do with your caliber choice.

well said, thank you

 

[264win]

Any of the listed calibers can do the job. For elk I lean towards 7mms and up.
280 rem, 7mag, 308, 3006, 300 mag.
Personally I would choose a 280 if I was going to reload and a 3006 if I wanted to shoot factory

 

[coldboremiracle]

Especially 264WM ^

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I wouldn’t be scared to use a 7mm08 with a quality 140 grain bullet either. That rifle would work great for deer in TN also.
mayb3 even use the 120 TTSX

 

[kurt]

I have used my 6.5 creed for the last two years problem is i havnt shot an elk as i have found finding them is way more of an issue than shooting them. Unless you are on private land or have the public stuff figured out. When the opportunity does come i have no doubt the gun will do its job i just hope i dont blow it as i will be so excited it will like shooting a unicorn

 

[dirthead1]

I'll throw my .02 in here. I've shot exactly 1 elk in my life, and it was last Friday. I had an Arizona late bull tag and anguished for months over which rifle to take (7mm RM, 300 Win Mag, 308, or 6.5 Creedmoor). I shot all of them extensively at long range, the 7mm and 300 well past 1000 yds, so I was comfortable with long range shots. I think I changed my mind on a daily basis. Along with that, bullet selection was a tough one for me. Should I shoot a Berger or an Accubond, a TTSX or ELDX............... On and on and on.

I finally decided to hunt with my 7mm RM shooting 180 Berger Hybrids. It's a custom R700 that is fairly heavy, but it's extremely accurate and I felt most comfortable with it "if" i was presented a long shot. After hiking about 10 miles over ridges and through canyons, and seeing only rabbits, we decided to sit over a water tank the last 2 hours of shooting light. A little before sunset, 3 bulls came in at 130 yds. I shot one of them in the crease just behind the shoulder. He was standing perfectly broadside. 180 grain Berger Hybrid going 2940 out of the muzzle. Vertically the shot was perfectly centered. When the bullet hit, the bull hunched his back and stood there a second. The other two bulls ran about 30 yards and stopped. The bull I shot followed and stopped with the other two. Then he got wobbly and fell over. He was laying on the ground with his head still upright, looking right at me. I sat there for a couple seconds and put another one through his neck just below his chin to finish him off. The entire episode lasted less than 10 seconds.

When we field dressed him, the entrance wound in the hide was very hard to see, but on the inside of the rib cage (entrance side), it was enormous. Probably about the size of a baseball. Heart and lungs were completely shredded. I did not see an exit wound or really any damage to the other side of the rib cage. I'm pretty sure I could have hit anywhere within a 6" radius of that impact point and had the same result. Heart and lungs destroyed and a dead elk.

Now I realize that I made the entire rifle/caliber/bullet selection WAY to complicated. I have no doubt a 6.5 CM, 308, or virtually any other cartridge in that same class will kill an elk just as dead and a 7MM, 300, or 338. Yes, the magnums will extend your range a bit, but they are also more expensive to shoot, have less barrel life, are less pleasant to shoot, and can be more difficult to shoot as accurately (especially in a lightweight hunting rifle).

The next time I get drawn for an elk tag, I'm taking either a 6.5 CM or a 308. It will be a light weight rifle that is easy to pack and carry. It will be one that I like to shoot a lot and have practice with a ton.

I had been practicing a lot off a tripod before the hunt, so I took it and my rifle was setup on the tripod, pointed in the general direction that I thought the elk would come in from. Luckily, that's exactly where they came to. From there, since I had practiced so much with that rifle and tripod, there was no thinking. My only regret was lugging that 13.5 pound rifle 10 miles through the hills/canyons. But I did learn a valuable lesson that at least in that particular area, a shot over 500 yards would be extremely rare, and a rifle that can be carried comfortably all day, and one that I have confidence in being able to hit what I'm aiming at out to around 500 yards is the most important criteria for me.

If I had shot that elk with a 6.5 and 140 Hybrid/Elite Hunter/Accubond or 308 with 165 accubond/Berger/etc, the result would have been the same. Maybe the entrance wound would be different. Maybe the bullet would have exited. Either way, the heart and lungs would be toast and the elk would be dead.

 

[psinclair]

I've killed 50+ elk in my hunting career, using just about every round under the sun. Choose the rifle you shoot the best, practice with it often, know where and when to shoot and rest will take care of itself...FWIW, my crew killed four elk this past fall with my GAP 6 Creedmoor, all one shot kills from 215-480 meters.

 

[psinclair]

I mostly hunt bulls with archery gear, but fill the freezers with cow elk every year.
Bull from the fall of 2017...

 

[psinclair]

Part of the "Motley Crew", with a few for the freezer. These were taken from 480 meters with a 6.5 SAUM,(George)and my 6 Creed, shared.....

 

[COlongrange16]

Lots of great content here. Good posts.

 

[Ankeny]

Lots of conversations and opinions on the web about elk rifles and bullets. I am blessed to have killed 40+ elk through the years. I hunt in some barren country that isn't typical forest type hunting. Distances can be long and one has to be willing to turn down a lot of shots. Of course shot placement is king, but if a person hunts with OTM bullets and some of the "marginal" calibers, they must be willing to wait for that perfect shot under good conditions. I don't know a lot of folks who will watch a 380 point bull lumber off while waiting for a perfect broad side shot.

A few years ago I asked one of our local game wardens if the change in regulations to allow 224 caliber center fire (essentially 223 and up with 60 grain minimum) for deer and antelope had caused any problems. His reply was, "Not as much as people who think a 6.5 Creedmoor is a 600 yard elk rifle". I have shot thousands of rounds through my 6.5 Creedmoor, but I wouldn't use it on elk unless it was the only option available.

 

[kurt]

Those same people probably should not be shooting a 300 rum at 600 yards.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Those same people probably should not be shooting a 300 rum at 600 yards.

^ Correct

 

[knuckleballz]

I have 2 buddies that live out west and have hunted elk for many years. One shoots a 7mm mag and the other shoots a 30-06. Neither one of them can place a shot on an animal with any certainty at any distance and they feel 300 yards is an impossible shot. They roll their eyes at my jp lrp-07 6.5 creedmoor. They are offended by AR platforms, and are more irritated when I get one shot kills on elk and deer out to 600 yards. Some people are unwilling to accept that many calibers/rifles are capable of doing the job. As was stated above, the ability to put the shot in the right spot for a clean kill, knowing you and your rifles abilities and limitations, waiting for a realistic opportunity are key. Some people are just stubborn. They do things the way they have always known them to be done. I think 6.5 is a better choice than 308 or 7mm08 because they wind is always blowing out west and the 6.5 bullets are less effected by wind and shoot flatter trajectories. Also the heavier recoil of a 7mm mag can make follow up shots harder, introduce flinch, limit range practice time, and kick like a mule in a lightweight configuration. The tikka ultra light is a 6lb rifle, is offered in all the calibers you listed, and can be purchased from sportsmans warehouse for 750$ or less. The 7mm08 is often listed for less for some reason, but would be a capable option as well. I picked up the 6.5 creedmoor and it has shot under moa out to 600 yards with 120 amax, prime and norma 130, and has grouped best with 123 amax so far. Testing 143eldx next time out.

 

[shields shtr]

Elk are tough critters and it seems like every one reacts slightly differently after they are shot. I've seen elk just stand there seemingly unaffected when shot with a .338 Lapua, and I've seen them absolutely pancake after being shot with a .243. Obviously, massive amounts of variables involved in most scenarios. I think the larger calibers do afford one a little more leeway on a less than ideal shot placement, but I would still go with whatever caliber you feel most confident shooting. Elk are tough, but I have yet to see one get away when a bullet is placed through BOTH lungs.

 

[MarkCO]

35 elk on my tags, present when about another 150 ish have been shot. The caliber that has lost more elk than any other of those almost 200 elk was the 7mm Rem Mag, some with what appeared to be perfect shots. Elk are tougher than people think and that big target I think lulls people into poor shots. Placement is certainly important, but bullet construction is as well. I have seen 7mm Mag pencil right through Elk at close ranges and some pencil right through at long ranges with well placed hits. 7mm Mags seem to be to work best from 200 to 300. My boys have tags this year, one is shooting a .30-06 and the other likely a 6.5CM. Both shot their first elk with .308s, one at 350 yards. I am a fan of heavier and larger diameter bullets for elk because they can cover a LOT of ground even wounded. Heavier and large diameter bullets give you a wider effective window for that shot that is not perfect...and it will happen. I use a .338-06 and I am an absolute fan of it. It is highly unlikely to see Deer and smaller game go any further than 50 yards or so...not true with elk. I have tracked center chest hit elk well over 5 miles (with easy to follow blood trails) and all of those were 7mm or less.

Most of my elk have been between 100 and 200. A few inside 100 (10mm 1911 at 80, .41 Mag on one closer) and several from 300 to 505.

If I was only choosing between the three the OP listed, probably would go with .308. A bump up to something a little faster or with a bigger bullet extends the range, the ability to take a less than perfect shot and the choice of bullets. If buying new, .30-06, .280, 300Mag or some flavor or a 33 or 35 caliber would be worth considering for elk IMHO.

Oh, BTW, with scope and sling, my .338-06 Weatherby is under 7 pounds, a joy to carry.

 

[spaniel]

Elk are big, tough animals often living in tougher country. I would not go with the minimum that can get it done. This year I watched a guy put four 7mmMag rounds through a herd bull at under 200 yards to put him down. Took perhaps 30 seconds and he was at risk of getting places where recovery would have been much more difficult than it already was. The herd moved away from him, and I anchored a satellite bull with my 338 Edge from 715 yards. I've also used a 300WM a bit closer than that and taken 3 shots to put the animal down. These are all chest shots above.

I see no reason to go under 30 caliber on elk. You want them down and if they are not you want two holes and a blood trail. Limited to 300 yards a lot of guys use 270s with good success. I have heard a lot more horror stories from 6.5s than any other caliber, even from experienced shooters who know what they are doing. They are confident in their shot placement abilities so go with 6.5-284 or similar they are confident with and lose animals.

 

[Mullhead]

Part of the "Motley Crew", with a few for the freezer. These were taken from 480 meters with a 6.5 SAUM,(George)and my 6 Creed, shared.....

Pat what's your 6 creed load ?

 

[powdahound76]

My vote is you can kill it if your wearing a Stormy Kromer.
Anything else is for pussies.

 

[Ankeny]

Those same people probably should not be shooting a 300 rum at 600 yards.

I agree. If someone pushes a 6.5 beyond its limits, they would probably do the same with a howitzer.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I agree. If someone pushes a 6.5 beyond its limits, they would probably do the same with a howitzer.

The comment was about people pushing their limits, not that of a 6.5. People who cant hit targets at X distance should not be hunting at that distance, whether its a 6.5 or 338.P

 

[mi223]

That is a safe assumption, but depending on where you will be hunting, that could easily double, or perhaps triple.



No idea who that is, but according to your listed criteria, he is right. A 308 is plenty of elk medicine if you plan on shooting 5-600 yards.

Any of the SA 6.5's will work just fine on elk provided the next issue is addressed:

Almost... shot placement far outweighs the type of ammo/projectile. Your skill and ability to put the shot in the right spot is far more important than the type of bullet. Your ability to practice and become proficient may also have much to do with your caliber choice.

Coldbore. What do you consider perfect shot placment? From what i see there tends to be the people that say just behind the shoulder. Then there is the high shoulder shot crowd.

I remember watching long range pursuit on tv and they were talking about the "high shoulder shot" that was vertical crosshair in line with front leg 2/3 of the way up the body. I know some poeple call them guys reckless but a lot of what they put on their show is drt. Obviously they probably dont put their bad experiences on tv but they kill a lot of animals on film very humanely.

Just curious what group you fall in? I take a lot of stock in what you say about hunting because unlike others you back up your opinions with lots of pictures of some great animals.

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[coldboremiracle]

Coldbore. What do you consider perfect shot placment? From what i see there tends to be the people that say just behind the shoulder. Then there is the high shoulder shot crowd.

I dont watch Long Range Pursuit (I dont even have cable), but if you've seen one hunting show, you've seen most of them. I imagine they spend a lot of time talking about their sponsors equipment, and as you mentioned they edit the videos to only show the best results. I cant blame em for that, you just have to know that going in.

Perfect shot placement depends on a whole bunch of things in my opinion, I'm no expert, or a professional or anything, this is just my understanding of it based on what I have seen and done.
Every body knows where the vitals are, a perfect shot is to choose the path to those vital organs that maximizes the bullets energy. The chosen path is based on "the rest" of the details, such as; can I hit that spot? How far away is it and will my bullet have enough residual energy upon impact?
Straight up the leg 2/3 of the way is a great spot often called the "off switch", but if you are shooting a 257R from 500yds out on a 6X6 bull, that may not be the best target. Because you may run out of ass before you get there, and not have sufficient energy to cleanly drop the bull. This isn't a reason to discount 1/4 bores, I killed my first elk with one. The point is, in that situation, all things considered that wouldn't be the ideal shot. While the bullet may not have the power to break through the shoulder, spine, lungs etc. it would probably have plenty of power to break the neck. But can you hit that?
Perfect shot placement is a constantly evolving decision. As I follow an animal through the scope, I put on my X-ray vision glasses and look through the animal so to speak, constantly analyzing the cleanest path to and through the vital zone. Depending on your situation, that may not be a shoulder shot.
If you'd like to hear the long-winded version of my humble and true opinion, I wrote it out in a long and gory article on my website. I'd invite you to give a read if you have a few minutes of life you dont mind trading

Website Article

Article here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/coldboremiracle/shot-placement-bullets/1899360273640798/

 

[mi223]

Great read as always CBM. You always do a great job of backing up your claims. Far to many people make bold claims that only a big magnum will kill a bull elk. You obviously prove them wrong and provide evidence to back it up.

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[coldboremiracle]

Great read as always CBM. You always do a great job of backing up your claims. Far to many people make bold claims that only a big magnum will kill a bull elk. You obviously prove them wrong and provide evidence to back it up.

I dont know about proving anybody wrong, I just do my thing. The take away here should be that there are many right answers, but whats right for you may be different than whats right for me.

 

[MarkCO]

TOF is a BIG factor many people do not consider as well. On a standing animal inside 200 yards, mostly irrelevant. Otherwise, it is an issue. If the animal takes a step, turns, etc., the perfect shot can become the tracking of a wounded animal, or worse. It takes a considerable amount of time to predict animal behavior and a lot can change in 1/2 (400 to 500 yards depending) a second between ignition and impact. A larger faster caliber mitigates that issue some. If it were otherwise, we would all use .22LR pistols to kill Elk.

 

[Ankeny]

The comment was about people pushing their limits, not that of a 6.5. People who cant hit targets at X distance should not be hunting at that distance, whether its a 6.5 or 338.P

I absolutely agree. Fact is, there are probably more people pushing their own limits than pushing the limits of the rifle. FWIW, I have shot 3 elk that were DRT with my 7mm-08 stoked up with 120 TTSX. A couple of months ago, a friend of mine was in a pinch and he needed to borrow a rifle for his son's first elk hunt. They let me tag along. His son (not a kid but late 20's) dropped a nice 6X6 bull at 350 yards with one shot. I wouldn't have shot the animal facing head on, but he damn sure made it work. I suspect a 6.5 Creedmore would have worked as well.

 

[Baron26]

For Elk and Africa plains game I’ve had great success with the 300WM, especially with 200gr TBBC or Barnes TTSX.

 

[Bosshoff]

I like the 7 mm Remington magnum with a Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 170 grain (?) round. I would have to check, my hunting rounds might be 175 grain. Shoots flat and fast. I read about the post where the author said that the round pencils through animals. I think shot selection as well as bullet selection are equally important. Just buying a crappy green and yellow box of ammo is not the answer. Additionally, 7mm Rem mag is not an exotic. In a pinch, Every local gas station that sells ammo will have it in stock.

 

[Dr59860]

Smaller 6mm bullets will kill elk at distance. But you can't cheat the physics...larger magnums (7mm, 300, 338, etc) obviously have more kinetic energy. If the thought of wounding an animal bothers you, then do all you can to mitigate that risk, starting with using a larger caliber. Go with the largest caliber that you are comfortable with (recoil, your accuracy, etc) and that you can afford to buy & practice with.

Additional details would help. And what is the best gun for a hunt in wide open Missouri breaks might not be the best for stomping through the woods in Southern Idaho/Montana. I hunt an area in Southwest Montana where the strategy is to push the elk through pinch points, where the shot(s) are 150 yards max and 30 miles down the road at the pass, my brother sets up on a ~400 yard shot every year, waiting for ATV's to flush elk out into the open. Point being, your strategies can help you decide if its really that difficult a choice. If money is not a concern and you can handle the recoil, why not shoot a 300?

Another thing to think about is how you will react when you see your first elk. Most guys are going to be pretty jacked with their heart racing, so being supremely confident with your rifle will be a huge benefit...ideally, you want a little bit of autopilot to kick in. I've seen several guys on $5K guided hunts lose their shit when they see their first elk. By the time they are off their horse or setup, the elk are hauling ass. Your chance of success is much much greater if you can execute in mere seconds (this really applies to specific types of strategies/methods, and doesn't always apply to most long range spot & stalk type hunts).

I don't consider myself an expert elk hunter, but I do have plenty of data points for what works and what doesn't in given conditions.

 

[Jackomason]

There are some very good points here! And very valid opinions. I've landed on the magnums for Elk but ive been struggling between the 7mm rm and the 300 wm. For quite some time i decided to just choose one and go because either way will end in a dead elk if I do my part to make a good shot.
Where I differ from the OP is that I want to try taking a long shot in the colorado mountains but obviously if I walk up on one I'll shoot it. Now I'm just waiting for my rifle to hit the market! It's a bergara ridge rifle 8.1lbs.
This is my list of pros vs cons for the two calibers.

300 win mag:
Pros
- energy at closer ranges (minor)
- bullet mass
- bullet diameter
Cons
-recoil
-price of projectiles & powder
- often more than 70grn of powder (doesn't let you get 100 rounds out of a pound)
- energy loss at longer ranges

7mm rem mag:
Pros
- Energy slightly better at extended ranges
- less recoil (debatable but generally less)
- price of bullets and powder
- more forgiving wind drift
Cons
- smaller bullet diameter
- smaller mass
- possible shot placement compromises

If you have any input or opinion on this matter I'd love to hear! I've only got a month or so before this gun will be in my hands, at the end of the day both will and have killed elk but as it turns out I like to worry about bullets.

 

[Dr59860]

Both are excellent. Put a muzzle break and get the 300.

 

[psinclair]

Pat what's your 6 creed load ?

Hornady brass
105 B-HY
42.2grs H4350
Tula LRM primer

 

[Sako76]

The last two bull elk that I shot in Colorado (near Meeker) were shot at 300 yards with a 270 WSM (150 Nosler Partition) and 489 yards with a 7mm Rem Mag (168 Berger). I suggest that you be prepared to shoot to 500 yards and hope for a closer shot. Good luck.

 

[psinclair]

Bull I killed a few years back with a GAP .308, 155gr Scenar at 320 meters. Bullet broke both front shoulders leaving a 2" exit on the off side.

 

[DetroitRearView]

I have killed them with just about every caliber, however I do favor the 300 win in a traditional hunting rifle.

Certainly lesser calibers will work fine, as already noted bullet placement in number one. The main reason I favor a 300 or better is because of my frequent Griz encounters.

Also I shoot a lot all year just for the upcoming Fall, so on some hunts I do take my 338L or 300N AI’s just because it is what I want to enjoy. Other times I take my old 30-30.

What a great animal! I can hardly wait to go after them again!

 

[CharlieNC]

I use a 300WM and 175 or 185 Bergers. Shooting a lot of prone, I have learned decent recoil management skills and have no problem shooting the WM prone either. If I can get a steady prone position I would feel comfortable shooting elk at 750yd, 550 is my longest actual. I would have no concern shooting a 308 to 500yd. Most important is having sufficient skill and familiarity with your weapon of choice, confidence in your dope, and a bullet up to the task. Its more about the capability and preparation of the shooter than the round.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I'm in the 300WM crowd shooting 200gr pills. For my lightweight rig I use a 300 WSM with 178gr. I have found over the many years of elk hunting that the larger caliber, heavy pills, work better on big CO bulls. Sure you can have good shot placment with about anything and take large game down. Elk are just big animals that are heavy in weight and dont lack toughness toughness. I personally wouldnt use anything less then an 30-06 with 165gr pills for Elk. Why even chance it? You spend thousands and thousands on gear, camp, rifle, optics, vacation time, away from family, all to just go take an elk. Why would you skimp on your caliber choice, when you actually have a choice from the start? Just my opinion. Either way, stay safe and enjoy the hunt!

 

[Caveman0101]

I can only tell you this, I've been elk hunting for 27 years never kept up with how many I've killed until the last few years when my sons' started hunting with me. The last 4 years we've taken 14 elk mostly bulls, all between 350-617 yards. None of them took more than a couple of steps, I watched them all fall. The last 11 of those elk have been taken with a 280rem with 150gr ABLRs or 260 rem with 142 ABLRs. I've killed elk with 340 WBY, 300 WBY, 300 Win, 30'06, 7mm Rem mag, archery and muzzleloader. But last year when my brother asked me to build him an elk rifle, we built a 280 Rem with a 28" barrel. My brother took a 6x6 at 550 yards, one shot, elk never took a step. I love my 30 cals but I'll take the .284s every day. I can lay prone behind the rifle and watch the bullets impact, something you will not do with a magnum. If you choose any 30 cal non-magnum, you have to be very picky about the bullets, as per manufacturer recommendation, the effective range on animals will be limited to 400 yards or less (this is a product of velocity and bullets performance requirements).

 

[DHwreckage]

I can only tell you this, I've been elk hunting for 27 years never kept up with how many I've killed until the last few years when my sons' started hunting with me. The last 4 years we've taken 14 elk mostly bulls, all between 350-617 yards. None of them took more than a couple of steps, I watched them all fall. The last 11 of those elk have been taken with a 280rem with 150gr ABLRs or 260 rem with 142 ABLRs. I've killed elk with 340 WBY, 300 WBY, 300 Win, 30'06, 7mm Rem mag, archery and muzzleloader. But last year when my brother asked me to build him an elk rifle, we built a 280 Rem with a 28" barrel. My brother took a 6x6 at 550 yards, one shot, elk never took a step. I love my 30 cals but I'll take the .284s every day. I can lay prone behind the rifle and watch the bullets impact, something you will not do with a magnum. If you choose any 30 cal non-magnum, you have to be very picky about the bullets, as per manufacturer recommendation, the effective range on animals will be limited to 400 yards or less (this is a product of velocity and bullets performance requirements).

i have to say your last statement on 30 cal non-magnums is incorrect. where do you get this 400 yd max range from? Its all about bullet placement then MV and E and with out know what those are at different elevations, with different loads you cant just throw an arbitrary number like 400yds and say that is a max. just some food for thought.

 

[Caveman0101]

Just take Barnes, for example, they state that to make the bullet perform as designed it must be traveling at 1800fps, that's right about 400 yards for a 180 grain bullet out of a 308 with a MV of 2600fps. My numbers may be off a bit it's been awhile since I ran the calcs for a buddy's 30'06 but its pretty similar. There are other bullets and weights with similar requirements, do some checking. That why I was so interested in the ABLR and ELD-X they require much less velocity to perform as designed.

 

[DHwreckage]

Just take Barnes, for example, they state that to make the bullet perform as designed it must be traveling at 1800fps, that's right about 400 yards for a 180 grain bullet out of a 308 with a MV of 2600fps. My numbers may be off a bit it's been awhile since I ran the calcs for a buddy's 30'06 but its pretty similar. There are other bullets and weights with similar requirements, do some checking. That why I was so interested in the ABLR and ELD-X they require much less velocity to perform as designed.

not all hunting bullets have a minimum velocity threshold of 1800fps, ELD-X's and Accubond LR's are 1600 and i believe the new federal TLR is a bit lower ~1400fps (hard to find actual data on them since they are so new). with a 185gr pill at 2500fps im looking at 550yds for 1800fps threshold, 178gr ELD-X's @ 2550fps hit the 1600fps expansion threshold at 799yds, this is all for a .308. Just saying that powders and bullets have come a long long way from what they use to be, there is no magically wall at 400yds that sends .308 projectiles in the dirt.

 

[Caveman0101]

As per Nosler ABLR minimum is 1300fps, I've been loading and shooting them since they came out. Just pointing out like in my buddys case he had been hunting with a Barnes bullet for a long time and until I showed him the calcs he did not know he should not have been shooting it at an animal over 400 yards or so. But yes the newer bullets have much better BC than their predecessors and allow for extended range shots at slower velocities. This information is paramount when considering a rifle and load for long range hunting. After which you have to be able to make the shot no matter what your shooting except maybe a 50cal Barrett.

 

[Caveman0101]

But I think you made my point for me ABLR, ELD-X, Berger maybe a couple more, that's a pretty small field to choose from, hence my picky comment.

 

[DHwreckage]

But I think you made my point for me ABLR, ELD-X, Berger maybe a couple more, that's a pretty small field to choose from, hence my picky comment.

i knew one of the bullets were 1300fps minimum expansion velocity...cough cough and $80 a box hahaha! cheers man i just hate when people throw around arbitrary numbers, got into an argument last week cause some guy said .308s tumble past 1400yds no matter what and didnt want to listen to anyone about it... anyways hopefully these numbers help someone figure out what to use and how to use it, all calibers have their place!

 

[Caveman0101]

Right around 1300 - 1400 yards is where a lot of loads will slow down enough to go subsonic and they can experience stability problems while breaking back through the sound barrier. But longer bullets are supposed to help with this problem. By the way, I usually get 30cal ABLRs @ $50 per 100, Cabela's or Midway will have them on sale a couple of times a year for $47 a box.