ELR - Not for everyone I guess

[Geno C.]

IMO, the whole point of precision rifle fire is....wait for it....to be precise. That can mean different things to different people, but "precision rifle fire" to most that I have met, means a hit with the first shot or with a follow up shot.

Most people who would consider themselves "riflemen" do this type of shooting with a rifle that is man packable by a single man. Again, that means different things to different people, but IMO shit has gotten so out of hand as to be a mockery to the original intent.

Any limitations you put on this type of competition are guaranteed to be called unnecessary and arbitrary by some... and applauded by others.

My preference would be to limit weight of the gun and accoutrements (gun as carried) to 25 lbs and the barrel to 30 inches. Caliber would be limited to 338 or smaller (again, arbitrary but this is my idea and nothing more). No front rests. Only bipod and bag, or tripod (tripod would count against the weight limit).

The course of fire would have a limit of 2500 yards (because this is about the limit most can direct dial range without equipment like the Charlie TARAC) with targets decreasing in relative size as you go out. (A KYL rack at a mile might be an interesting exercise).

Tie breakers maybe could be a 5 round group for score on paper at 1 mile as well. Because if the contest is about precision, maybe there should be at least one point where precision is actually quantifed and verified on paper.

Just my opinion, nothing more.

Limiting elr is dumb. Separate classes? Sure But there should be an unlimited shoulder fired class.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Limiting elr is dumb. Separate classes? Sure But there should be an unlimited shoulder fired class.

I would be all for classes.

Not saying the current state of stupid shit shouldn't continue, just don't let it be ALL that there is.

 

[Steel head]

I’m a bit of a nay sayer. But mostly to the “record” part of it. Bill himself said it wasn’t a record and recognizes the 2200ish record of the cold bore +2. While cool to hit an moa target that far out; for people to call it a record is what gets the laugh from most. Sure, the people that have never shot anything like elr have no clue what is possible, but those of us that do, know what it takes to make a hit. If you’re first or second round hitting moa targets at 3000 with some sort of regularity, then your a damn good shot. If you hit an moa target at 4 miles after 38 shots, then you’re shooting at a target. While fun, it’s not anything more than that. Pushing a system past what most think is possible is fun

I really enjoyed pushing my 260 and now 7 saum far beyond where they are considered effective.
It’s quite fun when you find some success doing so.

I haven’t set any records doing so

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

To me, it is far more impressive for someone to lay down with a field expedient, 16 pound or less, rifle and hit a full size IPSC target at 1500 yards cold bore or 2nd shot vs. lobbing projectiles way out with low single digit hit ratios. Having shot a LOT, over the last twenty years, of what is now coined "ELR" I have no interest in burning up barrels for a hope and a prayer shot. 2000 yards and in is where it is at, not further. No one has been able to prove to me, on demand, that they can repeatedly hit a 36"x36" target at 2000 yards cold bore. Currently, there are only four people that have successfully hit a 36x36 plate. three for three. cold bore past 2000 yards in an official competition. The ability to do this on demand is NOT repeatable and the statistics prove so. Why go further other than to waste bullets and burn up barrels. The whole "ELR" is becoming a real turn off. 1.4-2.5% hit ratios and calling it a "World Record", what a joke...............
YMMV
EJ

 

[steve123]

I've shot ELR but only to 2500 yards, basically wearing out my 375CT barrel and my 30-375RPR barrel, so I know a little about it and I mean exactly that, I'm no expert for sure.
I did win an ELR event once and hit the 2356Y plate on the first shot.

I have an interesting paradox to share which in a way is like ELR with a centerfire. I'm into PCP air rifles and various comps using them, please don't tune me out yet because I'm trying to make a point here, I'll do it quickly.
We attend a match known as the Extreme Benchrest Event/EBR that we go to once a year. The main event is the 100Y event which is getting a long way out for a PCP pellet gun using pellets. It's a 25 shot card for a max score of 250 points. The 10 ring is .5" but there is no rifle with pellets that is capable of a 250 which bugs me. In fact it's very rare for a rifle that can put all 25 shots into 1.2" at 100Y.
So what I'm getting at is there is a lot of luck involved in your score because the 9 ring is .9" so a competitor is just as likely to get a 9 as a 10 if he guesses the wind right and centers the impact.

To me ELR is the same way as far as the "luck factor" involved. Except guessing the "winds" in ELR is much harder. Basically you make a guess on the where to aim, look for your miss, then compensate accordingly. I see the same thing with the pellet guns, the vertical isn't good enough in ELR matches, because of various reasons, to hit the steel consistently.

Is it fun shooting ELR, well of course it is! But it isn't like some comps like F-class or other BR events that allow for the best shooting rifles and competitors to score a 100% if they do everything perfectly.

I'd like to at least see a much higher hit ratio in ELR. Targets too small and too far away so lobbing shots until you hit it is only fun because you can say you did it. If that's your goal then good for you.

Sure I am impressed that something can be hit that far away! That's one heck of a gun and cartridge.

I can set out a steel at 500Y and pop away at it with my PCP's using pellets and I'll hit it eventually but it wouldn't mean anything to me other than to tell my friends I did it. I've already done that at 289Y on a 7" diamond, yeah it was fun hitting it but if the vertical isn't there then the luck factor is there.

If hitting something farther than anyone else has brings you joy then go for it.

 

[jasent]

I just don’t understand why any one gives 2 shits what anyone else does. Who gives a shit if they wanna call it a record. It’s not like it’s an official record. Hell if it bothers you so much just go do it in less shots and say hahaha. Give me a brake. Shoot how ever you want to, at what ever range you desire. When I get impacts on the moon I’m going tell the whole dam world about it.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I just don’t understand why any one gives 2 shits what anyone else does.

Because they keep assaulting our intelligence and sense of propriety with the incessant posting, and the re-telling from amazed simpletons in every forum.

Who gives a shit if they wanna call it a record. It’s not like it’s an official record.

Except, the aforementioned simpletons keep insisting that it is. And the shooters themselves say that it isn't a record...yet they felt the need to publicize it as if it were (wink,wink)

Hell if it bothers you so much just go do it in less shots and say hahaha.

I'm sure someone is already planning that very thing

Shoot how ever you want to, at what ever range you desire.

Yep, just shut the fuck up about it. You are only impressing retards anyway.

When I get impacts on the moon I’m going tell the whole dam world about it.

Of that, we have no doubt.

 

[jasent]

you won’t get a rise out me. I’m just here to give my worthless opinion just like you. At the end of the day no one will remember it. I’m just happy to have powder to burn and primers to ignite it.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

you won’t get a rise out me. I’m just here to give my worthless opinion just like you. At the end of the day no one will remember it. I’m just happy to have powder to burn and primers to ignite it.

We are in the same boat. Nobody really gives a fuck what I think either.

 

[jasent]

It could be worse... we could be in one of those wacky liberal states run by a lunatic governor wanting to ruin the economy...... oh... wait... ya we are there too. Damit any way.

 

[acudaowner]

I have to admit in the past I would have scoffed at the idea I have to try and shoot more than a mile , I loved shooting I did not care at what range or distance it was just pulling the trigger and hitting the target was good enough for me . But I have to admit I can see after shooting 600 yards and loving it that 1000 yards would be fun . Well it is fun but as fun as it is . I want more now looking forward to shooting a mile or so and I am positive once I do that I will again want more . Dam you people lol you all got me hook line and sinker I am the fish on the line . Shooting 2 miles or more sounds like a pipe dream to me but I do love dreaming then finding a way to make those dreams happen when I can . I guess its the same with speed and power in a car 300 hp was fun , So 600 hp had to be more fun and 1000 hp sounds like a trip so then 2000 hp has to be a rush and the need for speed goes on life is good like that , if you can dream it chances are you can do it . I see and watch video's of people shooting from beautiful locations shooting at distances I can only dream about making incredible shots . Life is wonderful thanks you all for the pics and sharing of your experiences . I guess the quest for more continues . If you love doing something who cares if other people don't get it its your thing / enjoyment that matters who needs others approval when you are your only judge .

 

[eastexsteve]

I love ELR shooting and everything associated with it. It is my main hobby after family time and work. It's not for everyone though. Some shooters are into PRS, F-class or just shooting groups at 100 yards. When someone posts a pic of a little tiny group in the .1's or .2's does anyone ask.... yeah, but how many groups did it take you to get that one group? If you do really well in a PRS or F-class match, does everyone jump on your post and ask.... yeah, but how matches did you have to shoot to finally win one? IMO, it doesn't matter. It's what you love doing and that one group or match is an accomplishment that was worked hard for. So next time you hear about a guy that just made a 7000 yard shot, who cares that it took 69 shots to do it. The guy did it! No one else in the world has done it. I bet he had a blast letting go of the other 68 shots before that!

Congrats Paul!

I don't know the details, but one has to ask how big the target was. I can consistently hit at 1,200 with my iron sight guns. However, the steel gong I'm shooting at is 48" in diameter. Plus, there are so many variables that are in flux at 7,000 yards that you can't possibly be consistent enough to call it skill. A one MOA shift at that distance is over 70 inches. The fact that it was only 1 hit out of 70 tells me that there was a heck of a lot of luck involved. Show me that you can do it at least one out of five, and you've got my attention. But, like I told my neighbor once that hit the lottery for several thousand dollars: congratulations, dude. Now, let's see you do it again LOL!

 

[eastexsteve]

Holy shit! A legitimate excuse to name drop the coriolis effect and I missed it! Damn!

You missed gobs of spin drift, too.

 

[Hawkeyemm]

You missed gobs of spin drift, too.

But , spin drift doesn’t sound nearly as sophisticated as “corialis effect”.

 

[RTH1800]

It’s actually marketing by the folks who manufacture metal barn roof materials used for targets.

 

[lash]

It’s actually marketing by the folks who manufacture metal barn roof materials used for targets.

I thought it was barn siding...

 

[Hawkeyemm]

I thought it was barn siding...

Ruth800 is probably right. At that distance it’s probably coming from above you rather than from the side.

 

[brianf]

im thinking of shooting a world record this weekend.

ill take out the old 308

shoot it at a 45 degree angle and launch 100 rounds in the air (it should run out of gas at about 5500 yards)

after that ill walk down range and spray paint a 12" circle around one of the impacts

"world record" 308 hit a 12" circle at 5320 yards ..........LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[RTH1800]

The “target” seems to be facing predominantly upward.

 

[Hawkeyemm]

This actually raises an interesting question. I wonder what the approach angle of the bullet actually was. If it was steep enough the profile of the target had to of been drastically reduced.

 

[Geno C.]

This actually raises an interesting question. I wonder what the approach angle of the bullet actually was. If it was steep enough the profile of the target had to of been drastically reduced.

Read the post above yours.

 

[Steel head]

This actually raises an interesting question. I wonder what the approach angle of the bullet actually was. If it was steep enough the profile of the target had to of been drastically reduced.

Mark and Sam on YouTube caught pics of a bullet at target at some pretty good distances.

 

[Enough Said]

Predictable, Repeatable Precision and Accuracy. All else is plinking.

 

[dimar1492]

Predictable, Repeatable Precision and Accuracy. All else is plinking.

Don't forget..."World Record" plinking !!!

 

[Steel head]

Tactical volley fire.

 

[StLPro2A]

I love ELR shooting and everything associated with it. It is my main hobby after family time and work. It's not for everyone though. Some shooters are into PRS, F-class or just shooting groups at 100 yards. When someone posts a pic of a little tiny group in the .1's or .2's does anyone ask.... yeah, but how many groups did it take you to get that one group? If you do really well in a PRS or F-class match, does everyone jump on your post and ask.... yeah, but how matches did you have to shoot to finally win one? IMO, it doesn't matter. It's what you love doing and that one group or match is an accomplishment that was worked hard for. So next time you hear about a guy that just made a 7000 yard shot, who cares that it took 69 shots to do it. The guy did it! No one else in the world has done it. I bet he had a blast letting go of the other 68 shots before that!

Congrats Paul!

Practice makes perfect......even if only once out of a several 1,000 tries. Took Edison over 10,000 attempts to solve the light bulb. Glad he did for I can have my "air caption" idea moments. It's the discipline to continue trying that I find produces success in life. Sadly, most lack that discipline today.

 

[steve123]

Mark and Sam on YouTube caught pics of a bullet at target at some pretty good distances.

Those videos are what I think of with ELR.

Below is paraphrased for the heck of it

Mark takes a shot and Sam says you hit way the F up there. Mark corrects, Sam says hey you hit way the F down there and way the F over there, Mark corrects again, uh I didn't see where the F that went at all. 30 shots later... you hit it Mark, I'm glad because my eyes and ass are tired as hell, let's go home I'm getting hungry and you could use a shower.

 

[TripleBull]

Those videos are what I think of with ELR.

Below is paraphrased for the heck of it

Mark takes a shot and Sam says you hit way the F up there. Mark corrects, Sam says hey you hit way the F down there and way the F over there, Mark corrects again, uh I didn't see where the F that went at all. 30 shots later... you hit it Mark, I'm glad because my eyes and ass are tired as hell, let's go home I'm getting hungry and you could use a shower.

LOL, right on, except she calls him "mate".

They are getting better at their first shot hits, so I applaud their dedication.

 

[Tempest 455]

I've shot ELR but only to 2500 yards, basically wearing out my 375CT barrel and my 30-375RPR barrel, so I know a little about it and I mean exactly that, I'm no expert for sure.
I did win an ELR event once and hit the 2356Y plate on the first shot.

I have an interesting paradox to share which in a way is like ELR with a centerfire. I'm into PCP air rifles and various comps using them, please don't tune me out yet because I'm trying to make a point here, I'll do it quickly.
We attend a match known as the Extreme Benchrest Event/EBR that we go to once a year. The main event is the 100Y event which is getting a long way out for a PCP pellet gun using pellets. It's a 25 shot card for a max score of 250 points. The 10 ring is .5" but there is no rifle with pellets that is capable of a 250 which bugs me. In fact it's very rare for a rifle that can put all 25 shots into 1.2" at 100Y.
So what I'm getting at is there is a lot of luck involved in your score because the 9 ring is .9" so a competitor is just as likely to get a 9 as a 10 if he guesses the wind right and centers the impact.

To me ELR is the same way as far as the "luck factor" involved. Except guessing the "winds" in ELR is much harder. Basically you make a guess on the where to aim, look for your miss, then compensate accordingly. I see the same thing with the pellet guns, the vertical isn't good enough in ELR matches, because of various reasons, to hit the steel consistently.

Is it fun shooting ELR, well of course it is! But it isn't like some comps like F-class or other BR events that allow for the best shooting rifles and competitors to score a 100% if they do everything perfectly.

I'd like to at least see a much higher hit ratio in ELR. Targets too small and too far away so lobbing shots until you hit it is only fun because you can say you did it. If that's your goal then good for you.

Sure I am impressed that something can be hit that far away! That's one heck of a gun and cartridge.

I can set out a steel at 500Y and pop away at it with my PCP's using pellets and I'll hit it eventually but it wouldn't mean anything to me other than to tell my friends I did it. I've already done that at 289Y on a 7" diamond, yeah it was fun hitting it but if the vertical isn't there then the luck factor is there.

If hitting something farther than anyone else has brings you joy then go for it.

Glad to hear someone else that likes pellet guns! They will teach you a lot with regards to wind.

I shoot 1,000 FTR and have done ELR out west with a .338 LM but shooting a pellet gun farther than it should is something you can do at home.

 

[NoLegs24]

ARS definitely knows how to stir the pot....

 

[Geno C.]

ARS definitely knows how to stir the pot....

View attachment 7403908

They tore that shit up on Facebook

 

[Bradu]

Lol
The spotters probably had reticles in spotting scope to give precise calls and getting wind data at shooter and a forward position is a big help.
Plus They are dealing with winds high up in the air that are tricky(almost impossible for most) to read but there are correction factors to get an idea depending on terrain.
I have found correction factors really helped me be more consistent.
I mostly shoot across steep valleys with the bullet being effectively 1000+ feet higher in the air than a similar shot on flat land.

I personally find ELR extremely fun and challenging.
I’m just doing it with a small magnum.

That would definitely be tricky shooting in the hills and valleys. I've been going up to 125' in boom lifts this year and it's interesting to see how much different the wind is up there compared to on the ground.

 

[roostercogburn98]

With all this talk of missing the target, it sounds like a sport I could get behind with as much as I miss now! Guess I should have kept my 50

 

[Steel head]

That would definitely be tricky shooting in the hills and valleys. I've been going up to 125' in boom lifts this year and it's interesting to see how much different the wind is up there compared to on the ground.

That wind up there is what makes it interesting.

 

[eastexsteve]

ARS definitely knows how to stir the pot....

View attachment 7403908

Before anyone asks, I DO NOT know them LOL!

 

[Northman623]

ELR is in its infancy. The equipment is just starting to shift. Just as it does everytime a new segment of the shooting sports developed
. In time you will see cold bore 4k shots. It will take time, it will take lots of money. And most of all it will take a lot of first attempts. But it's going happen. To all the haters and naysayers, you can go stand in line with oh wait a minute that's right nobody remembers you guys. Have a good one.