ELR on FB

[ELR researcher]

ELR on FB

Seems ELR is taking off on Facebook. My current count is (alpha order of sites that seem to have an ongoing presence or are new and promising):

E.L.R. - https://www.facebook.com/groups/610558832611190/

ELR Central/ELRC - https://www.facebook.com/ELRCentral/

ELR Extreme Long Range Shooters - https://www.facebook.com/groups/261263037837539/?notif_id=1546396746795053&notif_t=group_r2j_approved (a closed group)

Extreme Long Range Shooter Association/ELRSA - https://www.facebook.com/groups/938512272979578/ (a secret group – the rename of a prior group)

Extreme Long Range Shooting Organization/ELRSO - https://www.facebook.com/elrso/?ref=gs&__tn__=%2CdK-R-R&eid=ARBXc0DkqDmotbyz3zS0_BXMBM0cGPSe9FLBTBDY1noUoB-I6F85mOqRaZ3TXkem4q7Z4lEfq9m_zjQh&fref=gs&dti=610558832611190&hc_location=group

I did an FB search on “extreme long range shooting” and came up with a few others that seemed possible until I ran through their posts. Are there others in the same “class” as the five shown above? Links, please. Thanks.

 

[ELR researcher]

BTW, there is also a new "local" group in MT but not yet on FB - Elite Long Range Competition/ELRC - https://www.elitelrc.com/

 

[AIAW]

I enjoy your content, website and posts here, but if anyone posted anything on Facebook and wanted me to believe it they'd be wasting their time. Pictures are pretty though. My modus operandi is to never log back into that POS marketing platform. The less revenue those ass-hats get the better. There aren't too many here that would disagree with me I estimate.

Someone wants to take it serious, get it the hell off of Facebook in my opinion.

 

[badassgunworks]

There is still no true elr association group that is announced as of today. a true llc /insured association. elrso is focusing on smaller caliber guys with factory smaller caliber guys who feel left out ( even though there not true elr rifles or shooters ) the elr extreme long range shooters page was a brake off from the E.L.R. page . cause some one got pissed off, and there group is open door to creed and 308 and 300 wind bag shooters the only page that tries to focus on what E.L.R is The E.L.R. face book page and soon that page name will change. and change is needed cause elr central has never created a true association with rules that make common sence there rules pair with the direction of the ko2m match or should I say the k02m has and is changing to match the direction of where elr central has gone. I could and see in the near future a true association coming into place a true LLc association based on zones across the country with rules that make sence based on ranking in zones that allow for a fair chance to earn a place in the world finals that will replace what is now known as the k02m.
You are correct Oscar it has taken off. off in all directions . From what I see the mass majority notice elr as big boomers in a liberal un limited /limited class not a true unlimited like what you guys are doing bring and shoot what you built . that will never grow into a big sport and it need its own class and its own name,

 

[IntoTransonic]

More time is spent on worrying about the rules and organizations or organizational type concerns. I, for one, either accept the match rules and abide by those, or I don’t enter. Maybe I just spend more time concerning myself with what really matters .... having my ELR system prepared for when the bell rings. More work; less talking about the politics surrounding ELR.

I refuse to favor one side over another. I have a personal opinion, but that doesn’t really matter. In my opinion, a shooteris either prepared, qualified, accepted in a event or not. If I am accepted into a particular event then great; if not, then I need to work harder, work smarter, practice more, compete more and win more. In my mind, it’s really that simple.

Good luck and great shooting
Chris Schmidt
Tennessee
Team JJ Rock

 

[Bandit320]

There is still no true elr association group that is announced as of today. a true llc /insured association. elrso is focusing on smaller caliber guys with factory smaller caliber guys who feel left out ( even though there not true elr rifles or shooters ) the elr extreme long range shooters page was a brake off from the E.L.R. page . cause some one got pissed off, and there group is open door to creed and 308 and 300 wind bag shooters the only page that tries to focus on what E.L.R is ........

Badass,

You seem awful judgemental and condescending about those who chose to use or can only afford to use smaller weapons. Compared to the weapons I’ve used in the military the weapons you’re delevoping would be considered little more than toys. Should I make fun and belittle your efforts? I think respect for all shooters / aspects of the sport while still being proud of what you’re doing would be more appropriate.

Mile

 

[badassgunworks]

Badass,

You seem awful judgemental and condescending about those who chose to use or can only afford to use smaller weapons. Compared to the weapons I’ve used in the military the weapons you’re delevoping would be considered little more than toys. Should I make fun and belittle your efforts? I think respect for all shooters / aspects of the sport while still being proud of what you’re doing would be more appropriate.

Mile

That what elrso is doing. Making a chance and match for guys shooting the smaller stuff to shoot elr-ish type matches and that's a good thing but it does nothing for advancing what is ELR. you guys have lots of matches you can show up at f class benchrest and prs for example. I just don't think the true sport should be hindered from advancements by the smaller stuff.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

and change is needed cause elr central has never created a true association with rules that make common sence there rules pair with the direction of the ko2m match or should I say the k02m has and is changing to match the direction of where elr central has gone.

Lol... we have? Keep in mind that before they kicked me out for calling bullshit, I wrote most of what became their rules for the world record stuff. As far as I know, that is the only thing they have under their banner. They have at times approached us and asked us to change things and were essentially told every time, "no".

We are doing some major revisions to our scoring system and the details will be released today or tomorrow but AB / ELR Central has never influenced how we run our match.

I could and see in the near future a true association coming into place a true LLc association based on zones across the country with rules that make sence based on ranking in zones that allow for a fair chance to earn a place in the world finals that will replace what is now known as the k02m.

The FCSA is moving towards taking on this role but we have approached it cautiously as the sport is still evolving and we are still figuring out what we think really works as a match framework. We are now ate a place where the refinements are more iterative and less sweeping (well... after tomorrow anyway) so generating a set of match standards is something we are comfortable with. This year is the first year the FCSA is sanctioning ELR matches and we will have between 4 and 11 sanctioned matches this year.

Oscar, if you are wondering, sanctioning of matches is simply the discretion of the national match director.

As part of this effort, we will be releasing a ranking of shooters based upon their best performance at any compatible match we have records from. This ranking uses a fairly simple system to generate scores that are at least somewhat compatible. For Ko2M this year, we essentially used this ranking for acceptance criteria so we are pretty much doing what you are asking for already.

-Alex

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

There is still no true elr association group that is announced as of today. a true llc /insured association. elrso is focusing on smaller caliber guys with factory smaller caliber guys who feel left out ( even though there not true elr rifles or shooters ) the elr extreme long range shooters page was a brake off from the E.L.R. page . cause some one got pissed off, and there group is open door to creed and 308 and 300 wind bag shooters the only page that tries to focus on what E.L.R is The E.L.R. face book page and soon that page name will change. and change is needed cause elr central has never created a true association with rules that make common sence there rules pair with the direction of the ko2m match or should I say the k02m has and is changing to match the direction of where elr central has gone. I could and see in the near future a true association coming into place a true LLc association based on zones across the country with rules that make sence based on ranking in zones that allow for a fair chance to earn a place in the world finals that will replace what is now known as the k02m.
You are correct Oscar it has taken off. off in all directions . From what I see the mass majority notice elr as big boomers in a liberal un limited /limited class not a true unlimited like what you guys are doing bring and shoot what you built . that will never grow into a big sport and it need its own class and its own name,

Bro, show me on the doll where Ko2M hurt you.

If some of you put half as much effort into actually trying to achieve your ELR goals rather than bitching about the politics of other peoples ELR agendas and rules you'd probably be a lot happier and spare the rest of us from the negativity. Forgive me if this feels personal, but literally every other time I see you post about ELR, its mostly you being passively aggressive to down right combative about how "ELR" as some of us see it doesn't focus on what you feel is important. Honestly if we disagree that's fine, but it you'd probably bring a lot more folks over to you side if you simply put more effort into being the change you want to see.

 

[Lowlight]

can I ask a serious question

Why they fuck are you promoting Facebook on my site ?

 

[badassgunworks]

can I ask a serious question

Why they fuck are you promoting Facebook on my site ?

ask Oscar

 

[Lowlight]

ask Oscar

He tends to do the wrong thing once too often around here, it's becoming a stone in my shoe.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

I'm not sure he was promoting those so much as pointing out how fractured it all is. He notably didn't mention FCSA or URSA, both of which he is a member.

-Alex

 

[badassgunworks]

Bro, show me on the doll where Ko2M hurt you.

If some of you put half as much effort into actually trying to achieve your ELR goals rather than bitching about the politics of other peoples ELR agendas and rules you'd probably be a lot happier and spare the rest of us from the negativity. Forgive me if this feels personal, but literally every other time I see you post about ELR, its mostly you being passively aggressive to down right combative about how "ELR" as some of us see it doesn't focus on what you feel is important. Honestly if we disagree that's fine, but it you'd probably bring a lot more folks over to you side if you simply put more effort into being the change you want to see.

I understand you getting upset with my comments. Its just I am willing to always bring up questions and comments that others are not willing to say. Get angry if you want. It wont change the perception that many have. Involved or not. Like it or not . Agree with it or not. Many have opted to not be directly involved in the current system for many reasons. Unless your willing to hear peoples concerns . Is the current system working ? yes Could it be better yes. I understand you guys are working on it. But are the changes being made based on doing what makes common sence or is it due to that enough people complained? Elr will continue to grow with out the k02n or with out it the FCSA. like I stated before and there is not hard fealing the FCSA is not ELR. I like the doll comment though that's funny lol Sorry Rudy if I hurt your fealing in any way that was never my desire.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

The only feedback we ignore is from people that haven't been to our match. Why would we care what they think? People that shoot our match and come to us with suggestions get listened to and if we don't take their suggestion, we alway try to explain why. The people that come at us with anything I would qualify as a complaint all do so from the perspective of having been waitlisted. They have been quite colorful this year I assure you...

-Alex

 

[SIDS01]

Its just I am willing to always bring up questions and comments that others are not willing to say.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one.

Your comments are rude and come off as an ignorant asshole promoting a vision of ELR that only supports what you're trying to sell.

I am curious to see how many people are willing to buy your setup though. I think you got the 12 dumbest on the internet with the Mercenary, and it doesn't sound like they're coming back.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Talk about an interesting thread

I said it multiple times you spin back 5-6 years and there was not anything said much as far as extended range shooting. I still remember the chatter the first year when Walt, Alex and Eduardo were planning the new event the King Of 2 Mile it was exciting with out a doubt, back then folks would look at you as if crazy for wanting to hit a target at 1760 yards seriously. Thanks to the crew they have made an event that has shown folks we can push the limits of what folks say can’t be done. In turn it has push our industry to look beyond what their engineers were comfortable with and break these limits in order to be innovative.

Anyone here you remember those days? You were a wack job for mentioning that you were hitting steel at a mile those days.

Frankie you’re doing an excellent job as always keeping this going, the Hide has went through how many changes through the years but its been a good trip. You do a great job promoting the skill level and knowledge to the shooters of many disciplines.

Bad ass, Fox or Pro you’re no different then the Dave Viers & Kirby Allen days, you are as others trying to think outside the box pushing the limits and looking ahead and I will say you took the heat as did Dave Viers who was highly respected in the day with issues you had no control of quality of the brass - what you had in RnD was not what was not the same and supplied at the end, Pro had this with the Mercenary and Dave Viers had this with the 375VM2. It’s sad but we all move on. Keep pushing the limits and proving success. You just can’t ever think you’re at the top it will only crush you at the end, stay focused on pushing the envelope and good things will follow.

At the end everything thing tends to settle out and I guarantee you it will only get better, look what has excelled in the last three years, ELR is evolving fast and in many directions and I still say a lot of credit goes towards a few folks that had a great idea. Thanks KO2M and its crew


Oneshot.onehit
JHeeg

 

[badassgunworks]

Talk about an interesting thread

I said it multiple times you spin back 5-6 years and there was not anything said much as far as extended range shooting. I still remember the chatter the first year when Walt, Alex and Eduardo were planning the new event the King Of 2 Mile it was exciting with out a doubt, back then folks would look at you as if crazy for wanting to hit a target at 1760 yards seriously. Thanks to the crew they have made an event that has shown folks we can push the limits of what folks say can’t be done. In turn it has push our industry to look beyond what their engineers were comfortable with and break these limits in order to be innovative.

Anyone here you remember those days? You were a wack job for mentioning that you were hitting steel at a mile those days.

Frankie you’re doing an excellent job as always keeping this going, the Hide has went through how many changes through the years but its been a good trip. You do a great job promoting the skill level and knowledge to the shooters of many disciplines.

Bad ass, Fox or Pro you’re no different then the Dave Viers & Kirby Allen days, you are as others trying to think outside the box pushing the limits and looking ahead and I will say you took the heat as did Dave Viers who was highly respected in the day with issues you had no control of quality of the brass - what you had in RnD was not what was not the same and supplied at the end, Pro had this with the Mercenary and Dave Viers had this with the 375VM2. It’s sad but we all move on. Keep pushing the limits and proving success. You just can’t ever think you’re at the top it will only crush you at the end, stay focused on pushing the envelope and good things will follow.

At the end everything thing tends to settle out and I guarantee you it will only get better, look what has excelled in the last three years, ELR is evolving fast and in many directions and I still say a lot of credit goes towards a few folks that had a great idea. Thanks KO2M and its crew


Oneshot.onehit
JHeeg

thanks Jeff we will never quit designing and introducing new products to the industry that's who we are. will we compete ? yes... when and where it makes sence and when we are ready. you are correct there was nothing wrong with the mercenary other then the brass produce by the manufactor being not what was ordered or paid for. SIDS01 who are you give your real name so I can tell the guys like Adam, tom and Daniel that you called them dumb. The mercenary is back and will be bigger then it was the last time.

 

[Lynn Jr]

The only feedback we ignore is from people that haven't been to our match. Why would we care what they think? People that shoot our match and come to us with suggestions get listened to and if we don't take their suggestion, we alway try to explain why. The people that come at us with anything I would qualify as a complaint all do so from the perspective of having been waitlisted. They have been quite colorful this year I assure you...

-Alex

I don't agree with this only because something you are doing might be keeping more shooters from attending.
Listen to all of it then pick what makes the most sense and ignore what you can.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Actually they have been shooting one mile matches for atleast 10 years now they just didn't post about them here.
And there was a group from Pennsylvania that used to long-range hunt for the past 20 years at even further distances.
Do a Google search for Bruce Artus and if I spelled that right it goes back even farther.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Lynn Jr
I have no need to pick apart the past, I am just an average joe and am glad we have the opportunity to pursue and push our dreams in extending the distance of what is impossible and with that meeting many new friends with the same goals. Good Luck in 2019 Cheers

Oneshot.onehit
JH

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

I understand you getting upset with my comments. Its just I am willing to always bring up questions and comments that others are not willing to say. Get angry if you want. It wont change the perception that many have. Involved or not. Like it or not . Agree with it or not. Many have opted to not be directly involved in the current system for many reasons. Unless your willing to hear peoples concerns . Is the current system working ? yes Could it be better yes. I understand you guys are working on it. But are the changes being made based on doing what makes common sence or is it due to that enough people complained? Elr will continue to grow with out the k02n or with out it the FCSA. like I stated before and there is not hard fealing the FCSA is not ELR. I like the doll comment though that's funny lol Sorry Rudy if I hurt your fealing in any way that was never my desire.

Forgive me the sardonic comment and let me speak plainly. Anger is not the base of any rebuke I've given, it is more so that your antics are becoming a drain on this community. Every step you take forward in engineering and development is being undermined by your lack of social aptitude and blatant partisanship. You seem to project through your commentary that there is an imbalance with the ELR community that needs to be corrected but I'll dare to say it's just thinly vailed bullying of those that you perceive to be a hinderance to your agenda. I'm guessing this behavior has gotten you through most of your adult life, and I harbor no desire or fantasy to correct it beyond simply addressing it as unproductive and unhealthy for the community as a whole.

Believe it or not, I do have a degree of appreciation for the faction of ELR you champion, and I am aware that a segment of the population takes issue with some of the current systems and styles of competition. Now as I see it, any change or progression of those systems is most likely to come from within, through the energetic merit of participating members. Beyond that it is necessity (perceived or actual) that will shape the future of this sport. Rest assured without adding value to this community " Involved or not. Like it or not. Agree with it or not..." it's going to move on with you and with little consequence.

 

[Swamplord]

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this one.

Your comments are rude and come off as an ignorant asshole promoting a vision of ELR that only supports what you're trying to sell.

I am curious to see how many people are willing to buy your setup though. I think you got the 12 dumbest on the internet with the Mercenary, and it doesn't sound like they're coming back.

No clue who you are and what created the butthurt and don't care ....

You publicly call the owners of Manners Stocks, Cutting Edge Bullets including the others who participated in the original brass order that we got screwed on, I bet these gents will take offense on your ignorant statement calling them "the 12 dumbest on the internet with the Mercenary", screenshot will be forwarded to all , thank you

aside from that bs .. yes we did experience a year plus long setback with the 375 Mercenary due to the shitty brass, we are past that now and moving forward ...

The 375 Mercenary is going public and the entire planet now has access to it, brass can be ordered from RCC in 50 pc quantities and they will also make you 2 die or 3 die sets at the same time ...

Reamer prints will be released next week and you can order reamers direct from reamer mfg

you can take off your shoe and put that foot into your polesmoker now

 

[Lynn Jr]

Lynn Jr
I have no need to pick apart the past, I am just an average joe and am glad we have the opportunity to pursue and push our dreams in extending the distance of what is impossible and with that meeting many new friends with the same goals. Good Luck in 2019 Cheers

Oneshot.onehit
JH

Actually I was just answering your question.
And if they get this BLM opened up after all the NorCal fires closed us down we can still salvage 2019.

 

[badassgunworks]

Forgive me the sardonic comment and let me speak plainly. Anger is not the base of any rebuke I've given, it is more so that your antics are becoming a drain on this community. Every step you take forward in engineering and development is being undermined by your lack of social aptitude and blatant partisanship. You seem to project through your commentary that there is an imbalance with the ELR community that needs to be corrected but I'll dare to say it's just thinly vailed bullying of those that you perceive to be a hinderance to your agenda. I'm guessing this behavior has gotten you through most of your adult life, and I harbor no desire or fantasy to correct it beyond simply addressing it as unproductive and unhealthy for the community as a whole.

Believe it or not, I do have a degree of appreciation for the faction of ELR you champion, and I am aware that a segment of the population takes issue with some of the current systems and styles of competition. Now as I see it, any change or progression of those systems is most likely to come from within, through the energetic merit of participating members. Beyond that it is necessity (perceived or actual) that will shape the future of this sport. Rest assured without adding value to this community " Involved or not. Like it or not. Agree with it or not..." it's going to move on with you and with little consequence.

You are the one that made this personal you are the only one that feels threatened I am not a drain on the community and the advancements we make and take speak for them self . you don't know me and your attempt to judge my personality and label me is wrong . I have no agenda other then keeping the sport from being limited and hindered with an agenda. we all want to see the sport grow and benefit and reward all involved in all capacities .

 

[Lynn Jr]

Sandow
You said the FCSA will be running elr sanctioned matches?
Is that info on the FCSA homepage?

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Sandow
You said the FCSA will be running elr sanctioned matches?
Is that info on the FCSA homepage?

They are listed on the matches page, I need to get with Randy and Brett but we may also list non-sanction matches as well just to help get the word out a bit.

I don't agree with this only because something you are doing might be keeping more shooters from attending.
Listen to all of it then pick what makes the most sense and ignore what you can.

The top random requests from non-shooters and their answers are:

Why don't you let everyone shoot every target?
Because it would take too much time so we would have to reduce our shooter count significantly and it would increase wear on targets and increase the rest of cameras getting shot by people that can't hit at closer ranges.

Why don't you let us shoot this as benchrest?
Because we are interested in encouraging development of systems that can eventually be used in the field and because a benchrest system than can change between a 10 degree arc from side to side and a 3 degree arc vertically sounds like an artillery piece.

Why don't you have different classes for weight, caliber, factory, etc...
Because we want everyone on the same playing field competing for one thing. Prove what works and demonstrate what doesn't.

My personal favorite...
I'm some guy you've never heard of and because of my experience at something completely unrelated, you should let me run your match because then it will be done right.
Here is a mallet and a bag of sand...

I'm not going to say that a non-competitor will never make a suggestion that is worthwhile. I'm just saying that they never have in the past 4 years.

-Alex

 

[Hoffer]

Why don't you let us shoot this as benchrest?
Because we are interested in encouraging development of systems that can eventually be used in the field and because a benchrest system than can change between a 10 degree arc from side to side and a 3 degree arc vertically sounds like an artillery piece.

-Alex

My setup with a linear guide bushing bipod encourages development of systems that will eventually be used in the field. Limiting setups to "a bipod and a bag of sand" seems contrary to development

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

My setup with a linear guide bushing bipod encourages development of systems that will eventually be used in the field. Limiting setups to "a bipod and a bag of sand" seems contrary to development

Sounds like it is potentially legal within our rules. Show me.

-Alex

 

[Hoffer]

Sounds like it is potentially legal within our rules. Show me.

-Alex

Here is a similar setup