ELR what percentage is mental?

[Hoffer]

There was a comment on a another thread I interpreted as ELR being a mostly mental game.

Never really thought about it before ( yes I get the irony)

Thought it might make a good Poll

 

[Hoffer]

I would say 20% mental 80% preparation

 

[Fursniper]

Any weakness in your fundamentals will be exposed ten fold in ELR so there's that. Assuming a decent firearm the rest of it is really good ammo and the ability to make really good wind calls. If you want to include the ability of understanding and making good wind calls in the "preparation" catagory, then of the catagories you list, I'd have to go with box #3 as the ability to call the wind is the lions share of it.

 

[Tempest 455]

I've shot a lot at 1,000 and 1,250 but never beyond until recently. Went to shoot out to 2,000 recently. I agree with the 80% preparation part. We started at 1,000 and as I expected (because we shoot F class often) was on the target in the 1st shot. Went to 1,500 and was a nightmare because where the target sat in relation to the wind. We never did hit it after many, many rounds. I was starting to worry we were not going going to get it done. We decided to move onto the 1 mile target. I had detailed notes prepared in advance. I made some corrections based on my velocity and temperature change. My youngest son and I were on the 1 mile target in the 1st shot, my other son in 2. Moved onto the 2,000 and youngest hit the 2,000 yard target on the 3rd shot. Not saying we are experts by any means but thought we did pretty good 1st time out at that distance. I never could have done it without my notes that I keep. The mental part was getting to me a bit at the 1,500 yard target, however. But the data I collected prior to this helped significantly.

 

[vh20]

Mental? Or Intellectual? I don't think ELR is any more "mental" than shooting for groups at 100. It is definitely a LOT more intellectual, however.

 

[Kingair001]

Mental? Or Intellectual? I don't think ELR is any more "mental" than shooting for groups at 100. It is definitely a LOT more intellectual, however.

There's way more 'space' for errors . . .

 

[lash]

As the OP hinted at, you have to be mental to engage in the sport of ELR shooting...

I do think however, that ELR is like almost any other sport in that to succeed beyond just having fun, your head has to be in it.

 

[northern50]

If you have verified and confirmed your equipment to know the mechanical part as well as the ballistics i.e.: bullet, and computer all work and are proven the rest is the game we play. Communication between spotter, shooter, as well as the shooters ability to understand conditions and make a correct decision between shots is the biggest battle on the line. An event is not the time to be testing gear, that needs to be done before hand. Failures on the line will ultimately put you out of the game before you realize it. Mechanical reliability needs to be 100% and you need to have a confidence level in it that you don't think about it on the line. You don't have time or capacity to worry about the mechanicals, the line is where you focus on shooting and working with your spotter to utilize the data you are working with.

 

[MontanaMarine]

I don't know what 'mental' means exactly.

I see ELR as a combination of art and science. That is what makes it interesting to me.

The science, well, that in essentially the gear, and physics.

The art, that's the individual understanding of the science, paired with the skills that comprise building a shooting position, reading the wind, and the knowledge that drives building the rifle and ammunition that will deliver out there.

How much is one, how much the other? Hell, I don't know. 50/50?

 

[MontanaMarine]

When someone puts their child behind a LR rig, and they hit a LR target, deer, whatever, it doesn't mean much to me at all. The child doesn't comprehend what went into the shot.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I'll try to throw a few ideas into the mix as to shooting well

Somewhere in here the mental game plays its part.

Equipment and the understanding of it is the primary element in the process
You can only squeeze so much out of a bullet everything has it's limits but yet can be pushed, a 6.5 has its dead end that can't compare to a 338LM and then to a 375, 416 and 50. So be realistic about your goals as far as extended ranges.

Quality in the smith work - chamber, barrels stock can all make or break a good shooter.
Understanding and being able to utilize ballistics programs - good info inputs = good corrections and results.

Most important - combining ballistic corrections to actual drops and knowing how to correctly adjust the programs to give the shooter valid information that contributes to its maximum useable distance that leads to success.

All of the above if addressed correctly and not taken for granted will build confidence in the system --- This is the most important part in the productive mental game - confidence!

The skills developed
quality reloading skills contributes to consistency in accuracy and tighter vertical spreads down range
Wind reading and corrections - time behind a spotting scope or rifle scope studying the effects of mirage and learning how much mirage can help in wind calls and corrections.
Trigger time - the more time spent behind the trigger the better you can learn your system. Some folks cannot handle recoil-so down size your system - flinching is a result of fear which results in bad habits and walking away from the sport.

Again mental
Get in the scope and shoot in a offense mode - you are aiming with the intent to hit your target to many folks get into position and over aim trying not to miss the target - thus a defensive mode, this normally causes a shooter to start to break down and struggle.

Pay attention to all the little things from reloading, rifle setup, good proven ballistics data and attitude we all have bad days once in a while but don't loose your head - it's not over untill the last round is sent. All the little things add up when shooting under pressure be it a fun shoot, heavy competition or a buck of a lifetime in your crosshairs.

I hope some of this helps

Cheers
oneshot

 

[Kingair001]

I hope some of this helps

Cheers
oneshot

Wise words !

 

[Tempest 455]

When someone puts their child behind a LR rig, and they hit a LR target, deer, whatever, it doesn't mean much to me at all. The child doesn't comprehend what went into the shot.

Depends on the situation. My "kid" is 18 years old and been competitive F class shooter for 5 years that now shoots at the Master level. Makes his wind calls based on mirage, will sit and wait 2-3 min sometimes through a boil before he takes a shot which often comes up an X. In his case, I'm often extremely impressed!

 

[Kingair001]

Depends on the situation. My "kid" is 18 years old and been competitive F class shooter for 5 years that now shoots at the Master level. Makes his wind calls based on mirage, will sit and wait 2-3 min sometimes through a boil before he takes a shot which often comes up an X. In his case, I'm often extremely impressed!

Nice !

 

[Clearlight]

All about wind for me . I'm happy with my SD's and shooting , it's that unseen opposite wind
downrange that bites me on the ass at ELR distances . Mirage is my friend too , consistenly
get better results with some mirage to dope the wind . It's winter here in Aus , one of my ELR
spots had zero mirage but 12 mph winds the other day . Just had to wag it based on wind at
firing point and watching the wind cycles in the tree tops mid distance .

 

[FuddLord]

I would say it just depends on the shooter.

ive noticed anytime I push out further than I have before I start getting in my head a lot more.

 

[Fursniper]

Good grief, I think people make way too much on this "mental" thing when it comes to ELR. Sure, you have to have your equipment & ammo dialed in but there's nothing "mental" about that. That's just good preparation. The only difference between short range and ELR are enviormentals, ie, WIND, mirage, temp, humidity, ect, and oh yeah, WIND. Yes, you need good fundamentals but again, nothing "mental" there, just training & practice. When you lay down to take a 200 yd shot do you go "mental"? At 400yds? At 800 yds? At 1200yds? What do you do different at 1500yds than what you do at 200? WHEN do you go "mental" lol. I put the same effort into a 200 yd shot with my 308 as I do at at 2000 with my 338. The only difference is the wind call and related hold. I address the rifle the same. I set up for the shot the same. I pull the trigger the same. I follow through the same. Calling the wind for a really long shot is a combination of experience, good observation skills and a good deal of luck. Sometimes I think people mix up the concept of "concentration" and "mental". I think what's "mental" is spending the money we do on this "sickness for distance" addiction!

 

[lash]

Good grief, I think people make way too much on this "mental" thing when it comes to ELR. ...

Sometimes I think people mix up the concept of "concentration" and "mental". I think what's "mental" is spending the money we do on this "sickness for distance" addiction!

Yes. Hello?!? That's what I said back in post #7. Well, sorta anyway.

 

[Fursniper]

Yes. Hello?!? That's what I said back in post #7. Well, sorta anyway.

Lol! You got it right the 1st time Lash. I just felt like a rant!

 

[brianf]

ELR is math and statistical data.
thats why a person with the same skill set (properly trained) will have a higher hit probability using ballistic software compared to pen and paper.
add in there is a standard deviation for all components and processes involved (stability of front and or rear rest, stability of material that rest are "resting on" etc.)
mean radius of POA - POI.
accuracy in measurement of environmental conditions.
you get the idea...

the smaller the deviations the more "accuracy" (deviation in POA - POI) there is.

every step or process that a human is involved (generally) increases deviation...increasing POA - POI difference.
that is where the mental part comes in. if the shooter is unable to remove the mental part (which is a percentage of the human portion of the process) the POA - POI radius may increase.

sorry guys, math geek/operations guy.
Also did some aerodynamic data churning for uncontrolled flight project some years back as a add on consultant. same as a bullet in theory.

 

[TripleBull]

ELR is math and statistical data.

Except that a large part of calling the wind is dynamically interpretive - it takes experience to get intuitive on timing. Technology exists that could make wind calls more of a math/statistics exercise but that's mega-expensive technology to employ at a scale that could cover the path of an ELR bullet. With the elapsed time of a 2 mile shot, you'd need to know what's going on over a large volume or air.

 

[Matches Malone]

I think ELR is more academic and preparation. Maybe throw shooting under fire, or being carlos hathcock might add more of the mental to it but thats besides the point i suppose.

 

[fdkay]

It's 90% mental, the other half is physical

 

[Neff991]

I think there is a huge mental preparation involved with shooting at longer ranges.

 

[secondofangle2]

If by mental you mean

Ignoring your target is huge
Forgetting it took you 12 shots to connect
”forgetting” entire strings that didn’t connect
”remembering” the awesome shots that connected with the huge target when the wind was just right
Always going to where the wind is low or constant velocity

then Id say it’s 80% mental, LOL

 

[IanHusaberg]

When I think of real ELR, I think of 1-2 MOA target for distance. 1000 y=10"-20" target, 2000y=20"-40" etc...

This is rarely the case. Did anyone see the King of 2 mile target? Its was like ten feet tall and 6' wide. Not sure on exact measurements.

I think its your belief in you entire system. Rifle, scope, caliber, bullet, on and on, ect.....It starts with the careful selection of every component in said system. Then its on to load development. Then practice, practice and some more practice. KO2M team had 2 labradar's to confirm bullets velocity. Teams were made up of 3 guys, shooter, spotter, wind adjuster of scope. Rifle, scope, caliber, bullet, on and on, ect.....

When things start to go wrong then it becomes mental game of making a correction and not going crazy making adjustment.

More like 10% mental, 90% equipment/experiance.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

When I think of real ELR, I think of 1-2 MOA target for distance. 1000 y=10"-20" target, 2000y=20"-40" etc...

This is rarely the case. Did anyone see the King of 2 mile target? Its was like ten feet tall and 6' wide. Not sure on exact measurements.

I think its your belief in you entire system. Rifle, scope, caliber, bullet, on and on, ect.....It starts with the careful selection of every component in said system. Then its on to load development. Then practice, practice and some more practice. KO2M team had 2 labradar's to confirm bullets velocity. Teams were made up of 3 guys, shooter, spotter, wind adjuster of scope. Rifle, scope, caliber, bullet, on and on, ect.....

When things start to go wrong then it becomes mental game of making a correction and not going crazy making adjustment.

More like 10% mental, 90% equipment/experiance.

Just to eliminate this from getting out of hand the King of 2 mile target at the farthest target was not 10 feet tall - it was 4'


Knowing and believing in your system and very good communication skills within the team while under pressure and a time restraint is a key in the success of shooting well in the conditions and wind that are handed to you versus being able to wait for the best time of the day and weather to shoot ELR


Cheers

 

[IanHusaberg]

Just to eliminate this from getting out of hand the King of 2 mile target at the farthest target was not 10 feet tall - it was 4'


Knowing and believing in your system and very good communication skills within the team while under pressure and a time restraint is a key in the success of shooting well in the conditions and wind that are handed to you versus being able to wait for the best time of the day and weather to shoot ELR


Cheers

Thanks for correcting me. The KO2M is most legit event there is out there in the shooting community. Those guy are the ones taking ELR to the real next level.