Email from Q - ATF issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol *UPDATE*

[JLP83]

Q has pissed off more people inside and outside of the industry then I can count. When you put the company in that position everyone is looking for a way to get back I am sure..

Which would be extremely dumb on their part.

 

[iktomi]

Good call for the ATF.

60 days to see what happens after the Election.
60 days to see if Barrett is confirmed to the Supreme Court.

If Barrett is confirmed, she may well sit on cases that challenge the Constitutionality of the NFA37, GCA68, and the extra-judicial actions of the ATF.

Someone may be thinking strategically in there.

Remember when the legal world woke up and realized that AR-pattern lowers do not meet the criteria of a receiver and therefore cannot be treated as the serialized part of firearms?

What happens to the ATF's clout when the legal world wakes up and realized that "shall not be infringed" means just that?

If Barrett is confirmed, I'll be watching for a general reluctance on the part of the ATF to initiate any cases that might make it to the Supreme Court and could result in rulings that undermine their current "authority".

 

[TDFT1]

Which would be extremely dumb on their part.

Not agreeing with, just stating it happens, but who really knows? Only the alphabet boys.

 

[_Windrider_]

Good call for the ATF.

60 days to see what happens after the Election.
60 days to see if Barrett is confirmed to the Supreme Court.

If Barrett is confirmed, she may well sit on cases that challenge the Constitutionality of the NFA37, GCA68, and the extra-judicial actions of the ATF.

Someone may be thinking strategically in there.

Remember when the legal world woke up and realized that AR-pattern lowers do not meet the criteria of a receiver and therefore cannot be treated as the serialized part of firearms?

What happens to the ATF's clout when the legal world wakes up and realized that "shall not be infringed" means just that?

If Barrett is confirmed, I'll be watching for a general reluctance on the part of the ATF to initiate any cases that might make it to the Supreme Court and could result in rulings that undermine their current "authority".

They don’t care about the Supreme Court. The amount of time required for a case to make its way through the system and get to the Supreme Court could be years. By that time the damage is effectively done. This shit will continue until we have a decision on what infringe actually means.

 

[TDFT1]

They don’t care about the Supreme Court. The amount of time required for a case to make its way through the system and get to the Supreme Court could be years. By that time the damage is effectively done. This shit will continue until we have a decision on what infringe actually means.

“SHOULD” be very easy and clear, but we know it will get picked apart!

 

[digitalshooter]

The Supreme Court will never strike down the NFA or GCA. That's a pipe dream just like the HPA and Constitutional Carry.

 

[TDFT1]

The Supreme Court will never strike down the NFA or GCA. That's a pipe dream just like the HPA and Constitutional Carry.

i always say the same thing, but if we got JR into office, we would have a chance!!

 

[TheOE800]

They don’t care about the Supreme Court. The amount of time required for a case to make its way through the system and get to the Supreme Court could be years. By that time the damage is effectively done. This shit will continue until we have a decision on what infringe actually means.

If legislature were held accountable for passing unconstitutional laws instead of simply slamming the judiciary with cases, maybe we’d get somewhere. Until then...

 

[_Windrider_]

If legislature were held accountable for passing unconstitutional laws instead of simply slamming the judicial with cases, maybe we’d get somewhere. Until then...

Agreed. I actually think the constitutunality should be determined before it ever goes into effect.

 

[Blutroop]

I agree with the with pretty much everything you just laid out, but i would offer an observation or two

I've been shooting NFA items for almost 20 years now... Damn.. it almost hurts to say that, lol. I have never been questioned about any of my SBR's while i have been in PA,MD and VA. In that time, I have never even seen an account online of the ATF shaking down an individual without a long list of other crimes as well.

We are living in this weird time where a few dozen jerk offs can literary spend weeks trying to burn down a federal court house and the federal government pretty much stood there and took it.

We are living in this weird time where a 17 year old goes to a protest, puts out a fire near a gas pump, gets jumped, defends his self and is charged with murder 1.

We are living in the weird time where local governments are local are letting rioters loot and burn down the cities and refusing to press charges.

So I really don't think it matters what the ATF lays out in regards to pistol braces, practically speaking, one could throw a regular stock, never file a form 1 and in reality nobody would ever care.

Not saying that anybody should break the law, only that nobody really cares what definition your SBR may fall into. The only time that the NFA works in controlling items is with silencers since one pretty much has to go to a dealer to get one.
[/QUOTE

 

[TDFT1]

Agreed. I actually think the constitutunality should be determined before it ever goes into effect.

I agree, SCOTUS should be involved in any new Legislation before it hits the Senate floor or POTUS’s desk.

 

[AllenOne1]

Question: Should Q consider sending ACB a Honey Badger for a confirmation gift? Or might this disqualify her if the case did make it that far?

 

[hlee]

Question: Should Q consider sending ACB a Honey Badger for a confirmation gift? Or might this disqualify her if the case did make it that far?

Should consider sending a Honey Badger to Roberts, Kagan, Breyer, and Sotomayor. Let them recuse themselves...

 

[digitalshooter]

i always say the same thing, but if we got JR into office, we would have a chance!!

No we wouldn't. Just for the reason you sa,id. It's always if this or if that happens then it'll happen. It hasn't happened yet because too many people still think it's someone elses job to get this done and sit on their asses and do nothing about it. The left on the other hand do the things necessary to get what they want done. That's why they're winning. It isn't until we are about to loose something that the community gets up and starts acting, just like now. We are always on the defensive and never on the offensive.

Take a look at Antifa/BLM right now. They want police defunded and they are getting it. Why, because they get out and break shit, they get violent. Which they know is what is needed to achieve their goal. They know that by getting violent the city counsels and mayors will eventually give in. The NYPD lost a billion in funding, Seattle and I think Portland defunded their police departments as have others and police are quiting in droves. Why, because they're not being lazy, they're doing what's required. I'M NOT SAYING WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS RIGHT BECAUSE IT'S NOT, JUST SAYING THAT'S WHAY THEY'RE DOING.

But what do we do to get what we want? We depend on someone else to do it for us. We sit here and wait for it to happen doing nothing to make it happen. Why isn't anyone talking about getting the NFA and GCA repealed right now? Why isn't anyone in these big groups telling people to start flooding their representatives with letters saying to repeal these damn laws? Why aren't they saying to go out and protest for these things? Why haven't we started organizing something to get all the new gun owners together with us so we can talk to them about these laws and how they're bad and should be repealed. Why aren't we doing the work of these people on the left that we make fun of. At least they are getting what they want done. That's a hell of a lot better than we're doing.

But you know, as long as we can have AR and AK pistols then everything is A-OK. We're idiots.

 

[iktomi]

But what do we do to get what we want? We depend on someone else to do it for us. We sit here and wait for it to happen doing nothing to make it happen. Why isn't anyone talking about getting the NFA and GCA repealed right now? Why isn't anyone in these big groups telling people to start flooding their representatives with letters saying to repeal these damn laws? Why aren't they saying to go out and protest for these things?

To have laws overturned on a constitutional basis, they must be challenged in court.

To challenge the constitutionality of a law in court, you must have standing.

The ATF cease and desist order (now suspended) gave Q standing.

Q might have been ornery enough to go all the way.

If they (or any other sufficiently autonomous party) can get a case in front of an Originalist Supreme Court, there is an opportunity to legally affirm the Second Amendments' transparent memorialization of the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

-

So: Get $$$$, a solid legal team, and get ornery. Then get yourself standing by having your right to bear arms interfered with by anyone in the federal government, lean into it, and stay alive until you can get your argument in front of the Supreme Court. (Legal Path)

--

Or, try and buy the politician's votes. I've heard Congressional votes cost between $10,000-$30,000. (Political Path)

-

Or go burn trash in the streets. ("Revolutionary Path").

-
Or quietly take personal responsibility to defend those things you hold dear. Feed and house your family. Do your work. Be nice to people. Follow through on your promises. Leave other people alone to live their lives. Support those you respect when you have the opportunity. Understand the dark consequences of confrontation, and avoid them for as long as possible. (Adult Path.)

 

[Longshot231]

 

[TDFT1]

I offer an alternative interpretation of this particular cease and desist order…

BLUF: The cease and desist order is not addressing SB Braces, but Q's design-intent for the use of the Honey Badger and Sugar Weasel.

CAUTION: If you are an Originalist, you must overlook the phrase "shall not be infringed" in the Second Amendment, and by extension overlook the fact that the National Firearms Act of 1934 and Gun Control Act of 1964 are lawfully vacant.

…I'll give you a second to get yourself in that state of mind…

…Okay…

Here we go:

(1) By statutory definition (GCA68):

The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

• a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);
• and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

(2) By statutory definition (GCA6):

A rifle is defined, in part, as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

(3) The statute defines the nature of a rifle not-in-terms-of use, but in-terms-of-design-and-manufacture (‘made or remade’).

(4) Brace variants are (by conspicuous design features) intended to assist the shooter in using pistols one-handed. When a designer/redesigned or a maker/remake includes such a brace on a pistol, they have designed-and-made a pistol.

(5) "Designing and making" is different from using. When someone picks up a Glock XX shoots it two-handed, the GCA68 is silent. The Glock XX has not been designed or redesigned, made or remade. It was made as a pistol and remains a pistol. This is equally true of an AR-15 pistol that was designed and made to be used one-handed.

(6) Q is the designer and maker of the Honey Badger and the Sugar Weasel.

(7) The ATFE's cease and desist order specifically references the description of the firearms from Q's website.

(8) Q's website specifically compares the form and function of the Honey Badger to an MP5 configured as an SBR.

(9) Q's website specifically represents the Sugar Weasel as an alternative to the Honey Badger.

(10) The ATF is inferring their design intent not based on the physical characteristics of the parts involved, but how they were designed to be used by the designer and maker based on their comparison to the function of the MP5 SBR.

To the ATF (if you’re reading this): All pistols that I design, redesign, make or remake are intended for one-handed use. (If you could read my mind, you'd know that.)

They definitely seem to be going after Q not Braces currently. It doesn’t help that one of the owners continues to push the buttons of Local and Federal LE Agencies. Photoshopping himself holding a HB on steps of Business with a sign in other hand taking digs at ATF doesn’t help. If I am not mistaken he still can’t be in possession of a firearm. IDK, but the fact the pic is photoshopped kinda confirms that.

Poking the Bears doesn’t end well for the person poking usually. I fear it will lead to them coming after all of them, I hope I am wrong.

 

[TDFT1]

To have laws overturned on a constitutional basis, they must be challenged in court.

To challenge the constitutionality of a law in court, you must have standing.

The ATF cease and desist order (now suspended) gave Q standing.

Q might have been ornery enough to go all the way.

If they (or any other sufficiently autonomous party) can get a case in front of an Originalist Supreme Court, there is an opportunity to legally affirm the Second Amendments' transparent memorialization of the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

-

So: Get $$$$, a solid legal team, and get ornery. Then get yourself standing by having your right to bear arms interfered with by anyone in the federal government, lean into it, and stay alive until you can get your argument in front of the Supreme Court. (Legal Path)

--

Or, try and buy the politician's votes. I've heard Congressional votes cost between $10,000-$30,000. (Political Path)

-

Or go burn trash in the streets. ("Revolutionary Path").

-
Or quietly take personal responsibility to defend those things you hold dear. Feed and house your family. Do your work. Be nice to people. Follow through on your promises. Leave other people alone to live their lives. Support those you respect when you have the opportunity. Understand the dark consequences of confrontation, and avoid them for as long as possible. (Adult Path.)

That Adult Path is too much to ask certain people! I would like to see it go all the way to SCOTUS with ACB now approved. Robert’s is/was the wild card and reason nobody wanted cases in front of SCOTUS. Q’s Owners have the $$ and Political connections to take it all the way.