End of the Internal Combustion Engine

[EddieNFL]

Spending time on various boats this week & when you look at runabouts, ski/wakeboard boats, bass boats, pontoon boats, midsize sailboats, Jetski’s, and cruisers under maybe 45’-50’ that run generators, I don’t see how these types of watercraft can ever go fully electric. Too much added weight with limited range compared to fuel.

Take a wakeboard boat where you have 8 people on board with ballast tanks full of water while wake-surfing plowing thru the water is not running efficiently similar to the article above of an electric truck pulling an RV. Electric is just not a practical application for these types of smaller boats.

Technology may work it’s way into Large yachts as there is more area under the deck plus weight may not be as much of a concern compared to smaller boats but are there going to be rapid charging stations at docks all over the world? Don’t think so.

So you leave Miami sailing to the Bahamas are there going to be rapid charging stations on all the islands in the Caribbean? Probably not.

Too many variables to consider and in a marine environment I would not want to risk my families safety on the hopes of finding a marina with a rapid charging station when your almost out of juice.

With the smaller boats it’s just not possible due to added weight, inability to recharge fast, cost, access to numerous marinas with charging stations along with not having the same performance compared to gas/diesel applications I don’t believe it will work.

Think you'll still be allowed to own a watercraft for pleasure?

 

[JR_77]

Think you'll still be allowed to own a watercraft for pleasure?

It could be one of two things. First similar to guns you can only have/use it if you live in a red state. I don’t believe the coastal red states from NC all the way down & around to Texas would allow marine boats/watercraft to be outlawed it would severely hamper their tourism, tax revenue, & livelihood.

Or two, you have to go to Mexico or the Bahamas/Caribbean to use or own one but I don’t think this will happen.

They tried to outlaw Jetski’s back in the late 90’s early 2000’s under the guise of 2-stroke engines are bad but weren’t successful. The industry moved to 4-strokes which made them heavier & more expensive but at least they still run on gasoline so it didn’t kill the industry.

Electric marine power plants in small boats/watercraft I don’t believe will work.
Of course most of us know this already but it still won’t slow down the long & heavy arm of government totalitarianism.

This is where the marine/RV/powersports industry need to lobby together to fight the government against this insanity.

 

[elwarpo]

Materials for making batteries are said to run out by 2050 which is about the time they stated that we will run out of fossil fuels. The only hope comes from childhood and HO Race Cars, nuclear power plants powering electric rails in the roads for electric cars.

Lithium, cobalt and nickel will not run out by 2050. These are the main raw materials for batteries. Source for your statement?

 

[UKDslayer]

The rebellious part of me wants to believe that if the amount of government subsidies and pure push that have been thrown at EV tech were at least shared with alternatives like Hydrogen, we would be sitting on technological leaps and breakthroughs there as well.

That would defeat the purpose and the immense opportunity to again provide millions & billions to "friends" via corrupt yet unsustainable companies like Solundra.

 

[UKDslayer]

Ya know getting rid of the ICE and yet depending on your view of things, Jet Turbines are ICE. Ain't NOBODY got a replacement for the Jet Engine. (and if you're allowed to have a turbine engine, a la M1 tank--sign me up! --just stay away from that exhaust!)

Was just watching a video on the "Superfast" Baglietto M/Y Panam - has three Rolls Royce jet turbines/16v-MTU's on it. Max speed 31 knots for a 40M yacht. Can't imagine its fuel bill even at cruising speed of 25 knots.

 

[UKDslayer]

Lithium, cobalt and nickel will not run out by 2050. These are the main raw materials for batteries. Source for your statement?

They won't run out but WE are making no effort to acquire the resources, despite spending 20 years, XXX trillion, and thousands of lives for one of those "sources" now taken over by China. if we aren't making smart moves to acquire unconditional access to raw materials we ill be screwed.

 

[n2ishun]

The largest resource of those materials was Afghanistan (google rare earth deposits then look in images).
Biden gave it to the Chinese, free.

 

[elwarpo]

All of those metals are common. The reason China produces most of them is because they do not mind destroying their environment. Without environmental protection laws, it is cheaper to mine them in 3rd world countries. If we had to, we could mine them here, but at a higher cost, and people will not pay more for us made batteries. Don't blsme the government, blame the people.

 

[candyx]

Lithium, cobalt and nickel will not run out by 2050. These are the main raw materials for batteries. Source for your statement?

3 technologies to improve renewable energy storage capacity | World Economic Forum

 

[elwarpo]

3 technologies to improve renewable energy storage capacity | World Economic Forum

Lithium is in the earths crust at 20pm, which means you have to process 25 tons of earth to get 1 pound of lithium. Unless you process all of the earth crust, you will not run out of lithium.
There are 7.2 million tons of known cobalt reserved. That translates to 1200 million ev car batteries, assuming no recycling. Add to that their are other reserves.
We will not run out of cobalt or lithium, it will just mean it will cost more as readibly available deposits are exhausted.

 

[candyx]

Lithium is in the earths crust at 20pm, which means you have to process 25 tons of earth to get 1 pound of lithium. Unless you process all of the earth crust, you will not run out of lithium.
There are 7.2 million tons of known cobalt reserved. That translates to 1200 million ev car batteries, assuming no recycling. Add to that their are other reserves.
We will not run out of cobalt or lithium, it will just mean it will cost more as readibly available deposits are exhausted.

Hey by 2050 I should be under the earth's crust anyway along with all the lithium, maybe I'll wind up in someone's car battery in the future.

 

[Soulezoo]

The thing that kills me is that if WE had decided back in the 1970's that this fossil fuel thing was only benefitting the Oligarchy ('cause they pull free dead plants out the ground and get $100 a barrel for it!) and had exploited Electric Cars and Battery Technology and all of this stuff that's considered to be "Alternative Energy" for the last 45 years we'd already have electric cars with 750 mile range that can charge in 20 minutes that are charged with 66% renewable energy/Wind/Solar/Nuclear...right now. Today. The technology and expenditure of R&D $ has been deliberately, time and again, redirected by people with More Money than God to keep raking in that triple digit profit generated by dragging dead plants from miles beneath the Earth and burning it instead of collecting billions of gigawatts of Solar Energy that passes the Earth every 24 hours supplied by Fusion - The Sun - without dumping tons of carbon back in the atmosphere and without radiation.

We had this down as an Electronics Engineering/Process Control Technician in 1976 and we are *still* fucking around trying to implement it. Because, can you say it Boyz and Girlz, The Global Oligarchy (who already has more money than God) wants another 50 trillion and the attached Power and Glory by dragging dead plants out the ground and burning them (to their profit and our Death) rather than to allow exploitation of something that does not generate trillions in profit for Billionaires. Electric cars and trains and aircraft, powered by Solar, Wind, Nuclear Fission and Fusion, is our only Hope going forward. The Oligarchy is betting we go back to 1956 and *Drill, Drill, Drill* to solve our energy needs 'cause they'll be dead when the chickens come home to roost.

And imminently , fabulously, without a doubt, so fucking rich they can buy anything while the rest of US choke on the fumes and kill each other for food and air conditioning. While sitting in line for $20 a gallon refined dead plants that sequestered trillions of tons of carbon out of the atmosphere (and left Life giving oxygen in return!) and took it to the Earth with them for billions of years. And now we spew all that carbon back into the atmosphere because, ya know, this electric thing is just coal fueling electric cars. Ya know?

VooDoo

You have a point. Even if your time-line is off a little. Battery powered cars goes back before WWI. There's a story about a young Eddie Rickenbacker nursing a car with dead Battery back to the shop. Imagine where we'd be if we had continued to pursue from back then.
You're correct in that an oligarch caused the situation we're in now with oil and he has a name:
Rockefeller
Do you recall when many cities had electric street cars? Rockefeller worked to place "his guys" (like Soros does today) on city councils and other decision making bodies to eliminate the street cars in favor of GMC diesel buses.... he even pulled this crap with hospitals in favor of certain pharmaceutical companies. Sound familiar?

 

[Soulezoo]

Ohhhh noooo, guess boats will just have to be illegal. - The government

Lost my boat in a gun accident.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Yes, cold weather reduces range on EVs.

The challenges are endless

Electric Vehicles May Present Major Problem During Natural Disaster Evacuations: Experts - American Partisan

The push to transition the national road fleet to electric […]

www.americanpartisan.org

 

[lariat]

The challenges are endless

Electric Vehicles May Present Major Problem During Natural Disaster Evacuations: Experts - American Partisan

The push to transition the national road fleet to electric […]

www.americanpartisan.org

I’m not criticizing you at all, but this is kind of a bullshit article. What it states is probably true, but not too many people are carrying extra gas jugs in their car. Gas pumps at a service station rely upon electricity to run, so a lot of this exposure still exists. If the power is out and there is no gas an empty tank isn’t going to get filled.

The article notes that short notice events are the ones they worry about in California, but those kind of emergencies will impact everyone, regardless of the fuel source for their cars. That’s not to say that it isn’t a valid concern for long warning events like hurricanes. EV just doesn’t have the supply chain to be viable. And I do wonder what a flooded EV would do.

 

[BullGear]

I’m not criticizing you at all, but this is kind of a bullshit article. What it states is probably true, but not too many people are carrying extra gas jugs in their car. Gas pumps at a service station rely upon electricity to run, so a lot of this exposure still exists. If the power is out and there is no gas an empty tank isn’t going to get filled.

The article notes that short notice events are the ones they worry about in California, but those kind of emergencies will impact everyone, regardless of the fuel source for their cars. That’s not to say that it isn’t a valid concern for long warning events like hurricanes. EV just doesn’t have the supply chain to be viable. And I do wonder what a flooded EV would do.

But let's talk about the availability of energy after these types of events. Is it easier to repair electric lines to 1 gas station then to repair electric lines to ever house in the area effected? Then let's look at how many cars can be serviced by that 1 gas station in comparison to the thousands of homes/businesses that must have for the EV car.

I guess in some emergencies, many won't be going anywhere. But what happens if the entire community must evacuate, those in EV cars are screwed. Imagine another hurricane in the gulf region. How many would not be able to get out of that area because their EV cars would need to charge ever 300 miles at best? There are so many reasons that EV's are bad so I'll stop here.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

In all fairness to every imaginable vehicle.... It only takes one vehicle to block an emergency exit road. Part of many evacuation plans is to designate tow trucks or Highway Patrol cars with push bumpers to simply push disabled vehicles out of the roadway. Unfortunately there are bridges and substandard roadways with no shoulder.... Precious moments are lost trying to get a push vehicle to a disabled vehicle.
It only takes one to create a disaster.

 

[W54/XM-388]

In all fairness to every imaginable vehicle.... It only takes one vehicle to block an emergency exit road. Part of many evacuation plans is to designate tow trucks or Highway Patrol cars with push bumpers to simply push disabled vehicles out of the roadway. Unfortunately there are bridges and substandard roadways with no shoulder.... Precious moments are lost trying to get a push vehicle to a disabled vehicle.
It only takes one to create a disaster.

Which is why in any true mega disaster and end of the world or collapse of civilization event, the highways will be one giant graveyard parking lot.

 

[EddieNFL]

I’m not criticizing you at all, but this is kind of a bullshit article. What it states is probably true, but not too many people are carrying extra gas jugs in their car. Gas pumps at a service station rely upon electricity to run, so a lot of this exposure still exists. If the power is out and there is no gas an empty tank isn’t going to get filled.

The article notes that short notice events are the ones they worry about in California, but those kind of emergencies will impact everyone, regardless of the fuel source for their cars. That’s not to say that it isn’t a valid concern for long warning events like hurricanes. EV just doesn’t have the supply chain to be viable. And I do wonder what a flooded EV would do.

Florida requires gas stations near interstate highways or evacuation routes, fuel terminals and wholesalers to have auxiliary power. I guess the Tesla ports could be powered as well, but you ain't walking to a gas station for a gallon of electricity.

 

[EddieNFL]

In all fairness to every imaginable vehicle.... It only takes one vehicle to block an emergency exit road. Part of many evacuation plans is to designate tow trucks or Highway Patrol cars with push bumpers to simply push disabled vehicles out of the roadway. Unfortunately there are bridges and substandard roadways with no shoulder.... Precious moments are lost trying to get a push vehicle to a disabled vehicle.
It only takes one to create a disaster.

I suppose if the drivers are all liberals they'll stand around waiting for help to arrive, but I'll bet one or two good 'ol boys could round up enough manpower to move most any wheeled vehicle to the side.

 

[Steve_In_29]

 

[Steve_In_29]

There was a recent test of an electric F150 towing a 6000 pound trailer. It started on a full charge and traveled just 86 miles before dropping below 10% battery remaining. Couldn't even make it the the first scheduled recharging stop and had to divert to another closer one.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Electric vehicles have ZERO to do with saving the planet and EVERYTHING to do with controlling the public's ability to travel freely outside of .gov oversight.

 

[W54/XM-388]

This guy makes an excellent, honest observation when doing their EV to the wilderness challenge.

Video is cued up to start at 13:01