Favorite Stainless AR15 “Recce” Style Barrel?

[Constructor]

I'd go WOA over Rainer too. Back in the day early 90s there were 3 guys making custom high power match barrels. Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks, Frank White at CLE and John Holliger at WOA. There are many that make them now but I would bet WOA sells more highpower match barrels than anyone in the country.

 

[MontanaMan]

According to "what the pro's use" 5 of the top 6 barrels in PRS are cut rifled lol.

You missed the point...................the article was not intended to address cut vs button rifled barrels, but just to show that Kreiger, while obviously an outstanding barrel, is in 3rd place with about 1/3 the usage of the top barrel listed.

MM

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'd go WOA over Rainer too. Back in the day early 90s there were 3 guys making custom high power match barrels. Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks, Frank White at CLE and John Holliger at WOA. There are many that make them now but I would bet WOA sells more highpower match barrels than anyone in the country.

The third most accurate AR I’ve had was a WOA barrel. They use Wilson blanks which are great. Coincidentally the second most accurate AR I’ve ever had was a RRA Varmint which also used Wilson barrels, or sure if they still donor not. Both of those barrels shot absolute lights out.

 

[Jsp556]

Lothar-Walther 16in .223 Wylde Match Grade Barrel - LiFe HD®, NiB Extension - Custom AR-15 Sales

Direct from Lothar-Walther are these first rate 16in stainless Match Grade LiFe HD® barrels with mid-lengh gas systems. We had them drill & rifle the bore, and contour and thread the barrel prior to the LiFe HD® treatment. However, the barrel … Continue reading →

customar15.net

$269
I have a melonited 16” LW barrel that shoots good. I don’t have one of the
Li-Fe treated barrels.

Isn’t the LW-50 steel supposed to be really tough, as in lasts longer than 410 and 416/416R?

I’d still rather have one of Constructor’s 16” Socom profile 5/8x24 threaded barrels. 3r, 1-7.7 twist if I had my choice. Skip the Criterion profile.

 

[S197]

WOA and CLE, they carry the top of the line blanks and have a proven background for turning out match winners.

 

[roamin]

You missed the point...................the article was not intended to address cut vs button rifled barrels, but just to show that Kreiger, while obviously an outstanding barrel, is in 3rd place with about 1/3 the usage of the top barrel listed.

MM

No I addressed your point you just chose to edit that part of my post out of the quote in your reply.

 

[j3fff]

Lothar-Walther 16in .223 Wylde Match Grade Barrel - LiFe HD®, NiB Extension - Custom AR-15 Sales

Direct from Lothar-Walther are these first rate 16in stainless Match Grade LiFe HD® barrels with mid-lengh gas systems. We had them drill & rifle the bore, and contour and thread the barrel prior to the LiFe HD® treatment. However, the barrel … Continue reading →

customar15.net

$269
I have a melonited 16” LW barrel that shoots good. I don’t have one of the
Li-Fe treated barrels.

Isn’t the LW-50 steel supposed to be really tough, as in lasts longer than 410 and 416/416R?

I’d still rather have one of Constructor’s 16” Socom profile 5/8x24 threaded barrels. 3r, 1-7.7 twist if I had my choice. Skip the Criterion profile.

Who’s Constructor?

 

[Constructor]

The third most accurate AR I’ve had was a WOA barrel. They use Wilson blanks which are great. Coincidentally the second most accurate AR I’ve ever had was a RRA Varmint which also used Wilson barrels, or sure if they still donor not. Both of those barrels shot absolute lights out.

Yes Wilson Arms blanks...not Wilson Combat for those that may make a wrong assumption. I believe WOA just buys blanks and turns and chambers the barrels in house. I'm pretty sure Wilson Arms does all the work for RRA.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yes Wilson Arms blanks...not Wilson Combat for those that may make a wrong assumption. I believe WOA just buys blanks and turns and chambers the barrels in house. I'm pretty sure Wilson Arms does all the work for RRA.

Thats my understanding as well, RRA didn’t do any barrel making/finishing at all at the time (not sure if that has changed). WOA told me on the phone that they do all their own chambering when I was discussing a 224V barrel with them last year. Can’t speak to profiling though but I’d imagine they do.

 

[MontanaMan]

No I addressed your point you just chose to edit that part of my post out of the quote in your reply.

You still don't get it. Or maybe simply choose not to.

What I originally said was that the only difference between good buttoned & good cut rifled barrels (besides cost) is life, Got it?

So the link to what the pros use was to illustrate that in spite of your insistence that Kreiger is the best barrel in the world, it's not the barrel most used by the pros, not even really close, but a distant 3rd, in volume even lower.

But since pros also want long(er) life, the top most used barrels are dominated by those who only make cut rifled barrels, valid point & true.

So you, then, obviously, decided to draw the conclusion from that, that buttoned rifles are not as accurate which is not a valid assumption from the information.

So think what you want as you obviously have a one track mind. There's much more to the quality of a barrel than how it was rifled as you did point out in your original post; I just take exception to your stating in essence, that Kreiger is the only one doing those things.

MM

 

[Docsherm]

uuuuuuuuuuh, that's very open ended.

The simple answer is nothing worse will happen to the Krieger than any other barrel made out of the same grade of stainless and left raw. The other simple answer is that barrels are constantly degrading and wearing or "getting messed up".

For starters if you're planning on rapid fire then you should get a chrome lined barrel from the start. Buying a SS match barrel to do that is retarded. Also are you talking about 400 or 500 rounds, there's a 20% difference there... and over 1 hour or 2 hours, because that's twice at many RPM if it's 1hr. Also tossing in "rapid fire" are you talking about dumping half the ammo on an auto lower as fast as you can, taking a long beer break, and firing the rest, or firing it all at the same rate over the period of time?

Your question quite frankly doesn't make much sense.

I am not trying to be a jerk here. Just want to make sure that the correct terms are being used so that everyone is discussing the same topic.

The entire thread is about a RECCE barrel, correct? If we are discussing some competition match barrel then you would be 100% correct. The Recce barrel is intended to be a combat barrel. Because of that a precision match grade barrel is needed, but it also MUST have the ability to withstand sustained fire if need be.

I have nothing against Krieger barrels, they do exactly what they are intended to do. They are a slow fire, low round count life, and extremely accurate barrel. It is not intended to be a hard use barrel.

The Recce design is intended to be a combat rifle that can also sustain heavy amounts of firing. There are SS barrels that can sustain that, Krieger is not one of them. That is my point.


That is the reason that the Noveske barrels are a far superior "combat grade" barrel. They are capable of sustaining heavy use and yet can still maintain a solid sub MOA grouping for extended round counts. I can tell you from personal experience that I have had 3 Noveske SS barrels that have had well over 12K through them before they grouped over 1 MOA.

If I was going to to go to a slow fire target match I would use a Krieger. If I was going to go back to Afghanistan, I would take another Noveske. It is a Recce barrel and capable of preforming as a Recce barrel.

So yes, it was kind of a loaded question, because terms are not always interchangeable.

 

[Docsherm]

Like one said above, if you are going to do mag dumps don't buy a stainless barrel. Melonite(Nitride) treated will last much longer and be as accurate. Chrome lined will last longer but usually aren't as accurate. Stainless isn't a good choice for a duty/combat/carbine course barrel. I wouldn't even use one for 3 gun.
Years ago I was testing a piston system so I pulled a cheap stainless barrel out and built the upper. Went to the range and went through a can(820) in about an hour. The barrel turned blue like the exhaust on a bike. When I got back to the shop I borescoped it and the throat was fried/fire checked bad. Another hour like that and I think it would have started blowing chunks of lands out.

See above.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You still don't get it. Or maybe simply choose not to.

What I originally said was that the only difference between good buttoned & good cut rifled barrels (besides cost) is life, Got it?

So the link to what the pros use was to illustrate that in spite of your insistence that Kreiger is the best barrel in the world, it's not the barrel most used by the pros, not even really close, but a distant 3rd, in volume even lower.

But since pros also want long(er) life, the top most used barrels are dominated by those who only make cut rifled barrels, valid point & true.

So you, then, obviously, decided to draw the conclusion from that, that buttoned rifles are not as accurate which is not a valid assumption from the information.

So think what you want as you obviously have a one track mind. There's much more to the quality of a barrel than how it was rifled as you did point out in your original post; I just take exception to your stating in essence, that Kreiger is the only one doing those things.

MM

He has a point. Overall button rifled barrels have not been as accurate for me as cut rifled barrels. I've also had some that were clearly not properly stress relieved (top quality makers too) and would walk like crazy when they started warming up. Guess what happens when you get a bad tube spun up? You get in a three way pissing match with the gunsmith and barrel maker who want to blame you or the other guy because nobody wants to eat the barrel or barrel job. Then you end up eating both. It's a little different when the barrel maker is also finishing the barrel though, you have some recourse.

I've only ever had one bad cut rifled barrel, and I'm sure the blank was fine. The chamber job was absolutely fucked was the issue, tons of runout, like destroying brass and leaving it where you could see it with the naked eye runout. Had nothing to do with the barrel though. Other than that every single cut rifled barrel I've had has been a shooter and I've never experienced any issues with shots walking if firing 10 or 20 round strings.

IMO the issue with button rifling is the stress induced and then typical stress relieving procedures which obviously doesn't work 100% of the time. Supposedly Dan Muller has kinda reinvented that process and it's supposed to work or work better but I couldn't say one way or another and quite honestly I don't know much about it. What I do know though is that if I have my choice of button vs cut I'll go cut every time.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I am not trying to be a jerk here. Just want to make sure that the correct terms are being used so that everyone is discussing the same topic.

The entire thread is about a RECCE barrel, correct? If we are discussing some competition match barrel then you would be 100% correct. The Recce barrel is intended to be a combat barrel. Because of that a precision match grade barrel is needed, but it also MUST have the ability to withstand sustained fire if need be.

I have nothing against Krieger barrels, they do exactly what they are intended to do. They are a slow fire, low round count life, and extremely accurate barrel. It is not intended to be a hard use barrel.

The Recce design is intended to be a combat rifle that can also sustain heavy amounts of firing. There are SS barrels that can sustain that, Krieger is not one of them. That is my point.


That is the reason that the Noveske barrels are a far superior "combat grade" barrel. They are capable of sustaining heavy use and yet can still maintain a solid sub MOA grouping for extended round counts. I can tell you from personal experience that I have had 3 Noveske SS barrels that have had well over 12K through them before they grouped over 1 MOA.

If I was going to to go to a slow fire target match I would use a Krieger. If I was going to go back to Afghanistan, I would take another Noveske. It is a Recce barrel and capable of preforming as a Recce barrel.

So yes, it was kind of a loaded question, because terms are not always interchangeable.

That's a whole bunch of bullshit, I'm far from a metallurgist but I know enough to know that with the exception of some rifling profile changes that the same barrel material is going to wear the same across the board. I also know that the different rifling profiles make a very small difference on wear. I also know that most of the wear occurs in the throat area at the beginning of the rifling and no rifling profile or method is going to change that. So again, to say that Krieger wears any faster than any other barrel made of the same material is complete and utter bullshit.

As to being a Recce style rifle and that's what the thread is about... Guess what? The original/legit Recce barrels were Lilja match grade barrels made from 416 stainless.... THE SAME FUCKING MATERIAL THAT KRIEGER USES.

A Recce rifle obviously isn't a combat rifle in the normal sense of the term. We're not talking about the military doing a solicitation to equip all M4's with SS barrels, we're talking about the option for units to have a DMR accurate type rifle that handles like a carbine. That's what the Recce rifle was. If they got into a fire fight and dumped 300 rounds full auto and smoked the tube then so be it.

We're obviously talking civilian rifles here, not combat rifles so the point is even more moot. If someone is putting a SS tube on a carbine to go dump ammo then they are either retarded or have more money than sense.

 

[MontanaMan]

Can't disagree with you at all. i just said from the beginning that both the button & cut rifled barres have to be done right.

And there are only a very few really good button rifled barrels available & definitely fewer than good cut rifled barrels. Because of the cost of cut rifling, the people who make them generally tend to take more care with all steps.

MM

 

[Docsherm]

That's a whole bunch of bullshit, I'm far from a metallurgist but I know enough to know that with the exception of some rifling profile changes that the same barrel material is going to wear the same across the board. I also know that the different rifling profiles make a very small difference on wear. I also know that most of the wear occurs in the throat area at the beginning of the rifling and no rifling profile or method is going to change that. So again, to say that Krieger wears any faster than any other barrel made of the same material is complete and utter bullshit.

As to being a Recce style rifle and that's what the thread is about... Guess what? The original/legit Recce barrels were Lilja match grade barrels made from 416 stainless.... THE SAME FUCKING MATERIAL THAT KRIEGER USES.

A Recce rifle obviously isn't a combat rifle in the normal sense of the term. We're not talking about the military doing a solicitation to equip all M4's with SS barrels, we're talking about the option for units to have a DMR accurate type rifle that handles like a carbine. That's what the Recce rifle was. If they got into a fire fight and dumped 300 rounds full auto and smoked the tube then so be it.

We're obviously talking civilian rifles here, not combat rifles so the point is even more moot. If someone is putting a SS tube on a carbine to go dump ammo then they are either retarded or have more money than sense.

I am guessing you are speaking form first had experience having used both barrels and done exactly what I was discussing, correct?


Because if not then you should probably not speak about things you do not know about, like metallurgy.


It is not just what it is made out of..... it is also HOW it is made. If not then why spend the money on a KRIEGER when you can buy a BCM or PSA SS barrel?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I am guessing you are speaking form first had experience having used both barrels and done exactly what I was discussing, correct?


Because if not then you should probably not speak about things you do not know about, like metallurgy.


It is not just what it is made out of..... it is also HOW it is made. If not then why spend the money on a KRIEGER when you can buy a BCM or PSA SS barrel?

So are you a metallurgist then? If so explain to us all the how. You say it's a difference, but explain it since you're so knowledgable on the matter.

No I have not bought both barrels and burnt them down because I'm not a retard. I know that if you take a SS barrel out intent on doing this that you're going to fuck the throat.

If the button rifled Lilja's are so much better than the cut rifled Kriegers (that's the only difference and you're telling us their's something wrong with Kriegers) then why is there so many complaints from guys about the Lilja barrels on MK13's torching at fast rate. Yes the ammo they're running is hot but there's a lot of reports of the barrels being toast in 1K rounds or less, thats very very short for a 300WM even with hot ammo. So tell me why that is, or is there just something magical about a 30 cal hole vs a 22 cal hole that makes it all go out the window?

 

[Docsherm]

So are you a metallurgist then? If so explain to us all the how. You say it's a difference, but explain it since you're so knowledgable on the matter.

No I have not bought both barrels and burnt them down because I'm not a retard. I know that if you take a SS barrel out intent on doing this that you're going to fuck the throat.

If the button rifled Lilja's are so much better than the cut rifled Kriegers (that's the only difference and you're telling us their's something wrong with Kriegers) then why is there so many complaints from guys about the Lilja barrels on MK13's torching at fast rate. Yes the ammo they're running is hot but there's a lot of reports of the barrels being toast in 1K rounds or less, thats very very short for a 300WM even with hot ammo. So tell me why that is, or is there just something magical about a 30 cal hole vs a 22 cal hole that makes it all go out the window?

I could explain it, but from your posts you would still not understand. I am through with this conversation as I am not going to argue with you about something you admit you don't understand or have any experience in. I don't see the point.

Good luck with that.

 

[MontanaMan]

An interesting & informative (old) interview with John Noveske; not sure what, if anything, has changed since the time of the interview other than John is gone now.

And with the demise of PacNor's facility recently, no idea what Noveske is doing for barrels as part of their process was done at PacNor.

John Noveske Interview

MM

 

[Constructor]

Krieger at one time used 410, now 416. Noveske uses a high grade 416R. Some of BCMs barrels are made by Criterion and are 410 as a result. Steve told me buttons pull better through 410. 410 has a better wear resistance than any 416R. Lothar Walther uses LW50 which is very close to 410.
Stainless barrels as supplied run from 28-32 Rockwell that is all, CMV runs in the 30-32 range also. Melonite or Nitride barrels run 60-70 on the surface but retain the ductile core. The chrome lining is usually over 55 Rockwell but the core remains ductile.
See below the real Noveske RECCE barrels are chrome lined.
ETA- I can cut the chrome lining out of a chamber with a reamer, I can not take the same reamer and cut a melonite treated chamber. Melonite is harder than chrome.

Interview with Noveske-

Crane: Right, o.k., now you’re double-chrome-lining your barrels, or some of your barrels, not the stainless steel barrels, but the…
Noveske: The N4 Light Carbine and N4 Light Recce barrels.


Crane: What type of stainless are they using?
Noveske: Well, they use 416 project 70. I use a different type of material.
Noveske: Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.

Noveske Rifleworks N4 Light Recce Carbine: John Noveske Interview, Part One

By David Crane defrev at gmail dot com The following is Part One of the transcript from a phone interview that David Crane, owner/editor-in-chief of DefenseReview, conducted with John Noveske of Noveske Rifleworks, LLC a number of months ago about his gun builds (tactical AR rifle builds a.k.a...

www.defensereview.com

 

[Constructor]

Just my experience on stainless. When cutting a chamber with a floating reamer holder in a manual lathe it only takes about 10 seconds to notice the difference in hardness of the material. 410/LW50 is the hardest shit I've ever seen, heat it up just a little and it gets harder. It will rip the holder handle out of my fingers in a second. Most 416-416R can't tell the difference. Shilen SS blanks cut like butter.

 

[ccasanova]

Compass Lake

Customer service is excellent

 

[powdahound76]

My pecker is smaller!!!! ????

I know @padom had a recommendation.

I also remember he had excellent accuracy out of some Rainer UM barrels, but maybe not specifically a RECCE barrel?

 

[MontanaMan]

ETA- I can cut the chrome lining out of a chamber with a reamer, I can not take the same reamer and cut a melonite treated chamber. Melonite is harder than chrome.

I deal with chrome & nitriding on stainless everyday.

It's surprising to hear that you can "cut" the chrome out of a chamber with a reamer, but then again it's very thin.................usually grinding or lapping are the normal methods of finishing or dealing with chrome, not by cutting with a tool..............would not have thought that to be effective as it just usually chip like hell if you put a tool on it.

Yes, nitriding (meloniting / tuftriding) is harder than chrome & depending on the cross section of the part, it can leave the core soft as well on heavier, thicker parts, like barrels, or it can make thin section brittle if the case depth gets too deep as well. We mainly use 13 & 17% Cr steel for the products that we (gas) nitride. Meloniting & tuftriding are salt bath immersion process.

Got to see ID barrel plating on Colt AR barrels at one time, very interesting it was.

MM

 

[roamin]

Almost all of them are running 416r and they're running their own slightly different versions of 416r. So to say that one 416r barrel maker has better barrel life than another without providing test results to prove it is just an assumption.

As far as button vs cut rifled when you rifle a barrel by forcing a mandrel though it to form the rifling it's going to cause stresses in the barrel that cut rifling doesn't. This shit isn't debatable it's physics when you force a tool though metal to reshape that metal it's going to cause ununiform stresses in the barrel that shaving away thin layers at a time with a cutter doesn't cause. Also both Bartlien and Krieger agree that cut rifling produces a more consistent twist rate than possible with button rifling.

 

[MontanaMan]

As far as button vs cut rifled when you rifle a barrel by forcing a mandrel though it to form the rifling it's going to cause stresses in the barrel that cut rifling doesn't. This shit isn't debatable it's physics when you force a tool though metal to reshape that metal it's going to cause ununiform stresses in the barrel that shaving away thin layers at a time with a cutter doesn't cause. Also both Bartlien and Krieger agree that cut rifling produces a more consistent twist rate than possible with button rifling.

Yes, that's all true. It's also why there are not many really top flight buttoned barrels around compared to a fair number of good cut rifled barrels, relatively speaking.

MM

 

[j3fff]

The Lollar Walther is calling my name, but I’m also looking at the new Intergrity-Blackhole Weaponry Tack Driver.

LW seems like the perfect balance of accuracy and durability, but I’m intrigued by WOA and the integrity arms stuff.

 

[Constructor]

The Lollar Walther is calling my name, but I’m also looking at the new Intergrity-Blackhole Weaponry Tack Driver.

LW seems like the perfect balance of accuracy and durability, but I’m intrigued by WOA and the integrity arms stuff.

I'll bet that BHW barrel wears out in half the time.

 

[dms416]

Given that I've had Noveske, V7, and Douglas barrels shoot well along with some stellar Kreigers and Bartleins. Had some outstanding Colt NM barrels along with some very nice HK and Hodge/FN CHF chrome lined. Seems to me that how well is more important than how.

If you're all about the longevity in stainless, roll with a Bartlein blank as their hardness is at the top along with Noveske/V7.

I also suspect (and I know the internet will tell me if I'm wrong) that the chamber dimensions and ammo selection is also more important.
Centurion/Douglas uses whatever the Crane spec is....super secret squirrel Mk12 shit
Noveske chambers for Mk262 but with some relief for full-auto reliability
V7 is close to Noveske but leaves the above's FA tolerance tighter
You've got your Wylde, CLE, and Craddock has one kinda in between if my conversaion with him is correct

You can look at chamber dimensions until you're blue in the face.

If I had my way, I'd rock a Bartlein blank finished to V7 profile specs (which is just an ounce or 2 less than Noveske) to either the Centurion/Crane or Noveske chamber spec. And gas it conservatively...

Given that we've pretty much hit the method of rifling and rockwell hardness...can we talk about chambers now?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

ApparentlyI'm not hip to the lingo, What is a "recce" barrel?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I could explain it, but from your posts you would still not understand. I am through with this conversation as I am not going to argue with you about something you admit you don't understand or have any experience in. I don't see the point.

Good luck with that.

Noveske SS barrels are just proprietary Pac-Nor barrels. Nothing real special about them.

The HK 416 barrels that had such long life in testing was made outta this:
https://www.aubertduval.com/markets...earm-materials-barrel-gun-steel-wear-defense/

@Frank Green made some barrels recently out of the Aubert & Duval GKH steel. IMO if you want the longest lasting possible cut rifled barrel, get him to spin up some more.. its hard on tooling tho.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'll bet that BHW barrel wears out in half the time.

Are saying that BHW barrels don't last long, or that the LW lasts very long, or some of both?

 

[Docsherm]

ApparentlyI'm not hip to the lingo, What is a "recce" barrel?

It is basically a 16" SPRish carbine with a SS barrel and most had a 1-4 scope. They are kind of an in between a regular M4 and a MK12 SPR.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

It is basically a 16" SPRish carbine with a SS barrel and most had a 1-4 scope. They are kind of an in between a regular M4 and a MK12 SPR.

Thanks, as usual curiosity took me down the google rabbit hole.

Found this interesting article with some history of the recce. https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equipment/recce-rifle/

Looks like Centurion Arms makes a Recce barrel based on the originals.

https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/rb14.16.htm

 

[Jsp556]

The Lollar Walther is calling my name, but I’m also looking at the new Intergrity-Blackhole Weaponry Tack Driver.

LW seems like the perfect balance of accuracy and durability, but I’m intrigued by WOA and the integrity arms stuff.

Take a look at the Triarc barrels. They’re melonited 4150 cmv. I’d almost bet they’re turned off Fedderson blanks. The specs and profiles are strangely similar to the out of business Micro MOA barrels. They shot well with 62 grain and heavier bullets.

Off topic but if anyone doesn’t think google watches what you post check this out. As soon as I posted about the Triarc barrels, I got this YouTube notification. Creepy bastards.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Take a look at the Triarc barrels. They’re melonited 4150 cmv. I’d almost bet they’re turned off Fedderson blanks. The specs and profiles are strangely similar to the out of business Micro MOA barrels. They shot well with 62 grain and heavier bullets.

Off topic but if anyone doesn’t think google watches what you post check this out. As soon as I posted about the Triarc barrels, I got this YouTube notification. Creepy bastards.View attachment 7195869

I thought the same thing about the similarities to Micro MOA. Been thinking about a Triarc barrel for a while too, particularly the now discontinued 13.7" mid and 17.3" rifle.

And yes google is spying on you. My wife can be shopping online for blue curtains while I'm not even home, and sure enough my phone will get bombarded by blue curtain adds. Weird..

 

[MontanaMan]

And yes google is spying on you.

Get rid of all things Google. Get EPIC browser; it blocks all trackers, runs a VPN service (which says you are in almost anywhere in the world) & is the most secure browser available. anywhere at the moment other than maybe TOR.

Google is the devil.

MM

 

[MontanaMan]

The Lollar Walther is calling my name, but I’m also looking at the new Intergrity-Blackhole Weaponry Tack Driver.

LW seems like the perfect balance of accuracy and durability, but I’m intrigued by WOA and the integrity arms stuff.

If you are not going to get a cut rifled barrel, then forget the others & get a Rock Creek button rifled barrel chambered & turned by Craddock & thank me later.

WOA is excellent; the Rock / Craddock is better.....................Paul Craddock worked for WOA for years & is far more meticulous than where WOA is today. And I still really do like WOA.

MM

 

[Constructor]

Are saying that BHW barrels don't last long, or that the LW lasts very long, or some of both?

A little of both, there were several threads a few years ago on arfcom about the BHW wearing out quick.

 

[Constructor]

Just an opinion here. Don't buy stainless just because it's stainless, buy it because it's a better quality barrel. Many think every stainless barrel is a match grade barrel but they are not, many are produced just like every other OEM production grade barrel. Barrel producers know this and fool a lot of people. The material stainless does not make it a better barrel. Gunsmiths like stainless because it is easier to machine and we don't have to do anything to it after we chamber and turn it.
Related - many think those silver barrel extensions are stainless, they are not they are RAW untreated 8620 or 4140 and they would rust if it wasn't for all the oil used in an AR.
For a match barrel or long distance accuracy I'll use a Krieger, Broughton or Bartlein because of the quality. If available I would choose those same 3 but 4150 and Melonited.
Over the last 12 years Melonite has shown me it is much more corrosion resistant than stainless. Somewhere I have a photo of a couple of stainless fluted G2 barrels in a bucket, after 6 months they were rusted bad. Melonite treated barrels will last longer than stainless too.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

So what you're saying is that statements like "my $50 PSA SS barrel is just as good as your $500 top tier barrel" actually aren't true? #whowouldathunkit

 

[MontanaMan]

Just an opinion here. Don't buy stainless just because it's stainless, buy it because it's a better quality barrel. Many think every stainless barrel is a match grade barrel but they are not, many are produced just like every other OEM production grade barrel. Barrel producers know this and fool a lot of people. The material stainless does not make it a better barrel.

Great comments.

MM

 

[TonyTheTiger]

A little of both, there were several threads a few years ago on arfcom about the BHW wearing out quick.

Interesting, I'll have to look for those threads. I toasted a BHW throat in record time and just thought I was unlucky.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Just an opinion here. Don't buy stainless just because it's stainless, buy it because it's a better quality barrel. Many think every stainless barrel is a match grade barrel but they are not, many are produced just like every other OEM production grade barrel. Barrel producers know this and fool a lot of people. The material stainless does not make it a better barrel. Gunsmiths like stainless because it is easier to machine and we don't have to do anything to it after we chamber and turn it.
Related - many think those silver barrel extensions are stainless, they are not they are RAW untreated 8620 or 4140 and they would rust if it wasn't for all the oil used in an AR.
For a match barrel or long distance accuracy I'll use a Krieger, Broughton or Bartlein because of the quality. If available I would choose those same 3 but 4150 and Melonited.
Over the last 12 years Melonite has shown me it is much more corrosion resistant than stainless. Somewhere I have a photo of a couple of stainless fluted G2 barrels in a bucket, after 6 months they were rusted bad. Melonite treated barrels will last longer than stainless too.
View attachment 7196149

I think Rock Creek and Brux are the only ones offering 4150 cut rifled barrels. Though I'm 99% sure Krieger and Bartlein would be willing to spin up some 4150 barrels if asked..

 

[Jsp556]

I think Rock Creek and Brux are the only ones offering 4150 cut rifled barrels. Though I'm 99% sure Krieger and Bartlein would be willing to spin up some 4150 barrels if asked..

Obermeyer had them listed on their site also.

 

[dms416]

Looking forward to see how this one stacks up:

 

[Fishin6061]

Krieger and White Oak are known performers

 

[Jsp556]

Looking forward to see how this one stacks up:

Nice. Monte is top notch. I wonder if it uses the same chamber as his mk12 barrels. If so, it should hammer with 77gr smk’s

 

[Merle]

Nice. Monte is top notch. I wonder if it uses the same chamber as his mk12 barrels. If so, it should hammer with 77gr smk’s

After the way Centurion Arms jerked me around on one of their out of spec large framed receiver sets I wouldn't take their shit for free. Hope your barrel is a shooter but don't plan on them taking any blame for their product being a turd if it ends up being one.