What is your favorite trainer round?
Looking for something other than 6mm or 6.5 as good ammo for those is over $1.00/RD
Looking for something other than 6mm or 6.5 as good ammo for those is over $1.00/RD
Favorite Trainer Round
- Thread starter RonBurgundyy
- Start date
Not really sure that in Centerfire the only semi match rifle would be a 223. Many use indie for trainers.
.223 by far.
Low cost, low recoil, gets blown around by the wind.
Low cost, low recoil, gets blown around by the wind.
308 for me. I like the recoil and it getting pushed around by the wind. Out of a 18" barrel I'm shooting 169s at 2580ish. Cost wise it's probably about equal to 6.5CM. I reload for it though so factory ammo costs aren't a consideration for me.
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223 but good 223 is over a buck a round too. The stuff that’s cheaper is shit.
Actually, all cheap factory ammo is shit.
Actually, all cheap factory ammo is shit.
^ that.
Loading your own ammo is the best way to deal with this, hard to do it any other way. I doubt you'll find any good cheap factory ammo.
Loading your own good .223 makes it work really well as a trainer. Rmr 69 or 75g bullets help keep cost down and shoot well enough for most things.
24 to 26g of varget or something cheaper helps too. Brass has to be the most common one there is and most is plenty good for practice.
It's also easy to set up a 223 rifle that is the same or similar to your main rifle. .223 let's you see wind drift inside 500 yards really well too. Works well for me!
Loading your own ammo is the best way to deal with this, hard to do it any other way. I doubt you'll find any good cheap factory ammo.
Loading your own good .223 makes it work really well as a trainer. Rmr 69 or 75g bullets help keep cost down and shoot well enough for most things.
24 to 26g of varget or something cheaper helps too. Brass has to be the most common one there is and most is plenty good for practice.
It's also easy to set up a 223 rifle that is the same or similar to your main rifle. .223 let's you see wind drift inside 500 yards really well too. Works well for me!
Of course there are shipping charges, but……Global Ordinance has ADI .223 69 grain SMK , 200 rounds, 149.99. 19.99 for 20. Excellent performance out to 500 yards through my Savage Model 12 LRPV, 7 twist but should do OK with a 9.
For 6.5 CM, PSA’s AAC 140 grain BTHP ( Hornady bullet ) 19.99 for 20, 21.99 for 20 of AAC 140 grain SMK. Also, there’s Hornady’s American Gunner 140 BTHP. My Super Varmint loves all of these.
For 6.5 CM, PSA’s AAC 140 grain BTHP ( Hornady bullet ) 19.99 for 20, 21.99 for 20 of AAC 140 grain SMK. Also, there’s Hornady’s American Gunner 140 BTHP. My Super Varmint loves all of these.
Another thing to consider, you have to shoot a mountain of rounds to even think about breaking even with a trainer.
Even buying a used tikka 223, scope, rings, mags, etc to get started with a trainer and then the ammo to feed the trainer, the cost savings would take a long time if ever for most people.
Might be better to just buy more ammo for what you have???
With that said I really enjoy my 223, 223ai and 22lr match rifles. Notice how I didn’t say trainers……. 223 with a long throat shooting heavies is a very competitive round. In my case I was running 88eldms in my last 223 and it was equal to my 6br with 108eldms so I sold the 6br.
Even buying a used tikka 223, scope, rings, mags, etc to get started with a trainer and then the ammo to feed the trainer, the cost savings would take a long time if ever for most people.
Might be better to just buy more ammo for what you have???
With that said I really enjoy my 223, 223ai and 22lr match rifles. Notice how I didn’t say trainers……. 223 with a long throat shooting heavies is a very competitive round. In my case I was running 88eldms in my last 223 and it was equal to my 6br with 108eldms so I sold the 6br.
I just went down this road myself. Reloading components are not inexpensive, and my time is limited. Reloading tools to speed things up cost $$ too. I just ordered some Rimfire ammo that should get me through the year, if I don’t practice constantly. Close to $3K. Practice reps matter, for precision on the clock when the shooter is good enough to see the limitations of substandard ammo, even shooting positionally. Unless you can burn $10K/yr on just practice ammo, Rimfire is the way to do volume. If you are (still) in uniform, join whatever team you can and be the cord committed guy until they cut you.
You are reading my mind.
Sometimes I wonder if the trainer purchase is a fig leaf for wanting another firearm.
-Stan
We had this discussion among my group of local shooters a few years back. We were all shooting 223ai for practice except for one guy, who didn’t build a “trainer”. He just used his funds to buy more barrels and ammo and shot his match rifle with a “practice barrel” when training. He ended up being the best shooter of our group and still is. We all sold or stopped shooting our trainer rifles after that lol
I was running them in a 223 with long throat mag fed.
I haven’t worn out a 223 barrel yet so not sure. And I don’t keep track of rounds fired but rough guess is my highest round count 223 has around 4000-5000 rounds through it and I just won a match with it last weekend so still shooting great!
I haven’t worn out a 223 barrel yet so not sure. And I don’t keep track of rounds fired but rough guess is my highest round count 223 has around 4000-5000 rounds through it and I just won a match with it last weekend so still shooting great!
I shot a lot of that Hornady American Gunner 65CM 140s when I started PRS. Was a great round for the money back then.
In my case - I like being able to load a bunch of 223 very fast and easy with a Dillon progressive versus my usual Dasher single stage process. I tend to use the 223 "trainer" at 300-600 yards. Also, all the components are so much cheaper.
Issue with 22LR trainers is "good" 22 ammo is so expensive and at times hard to find. I practice with my PRS22 rig also.
Idk how tariffs will affect this but PPU 75 gr 223 has historically been some of the most accurate 223 ever out of my guns.
Historically it was always right around 75 cpr.
Agree with @Lightning8, its nice to just throw charges quickly with a 223 using quality bullets costing nearly half the price. I shoot so much more now because of this.
Trainers are indeed a frequent excuse to get another rifle. However, they can certainly serve enough of a purpose to justify their purchase (besides "I just wanted it").
My .223 trainer is what got my in-laws out shooting rifles. Take a 65 year old woman (or 8 year old kid) and stick them behind something with recoil and/or concussion and see how much (more) time you spend reinforcing proper fundamentals. My F-I-L went from never shooting past 200 yards in his entire life, to shooting a 3" group at 400 yards on his first attempt...he came up from behind the rifle with a smile and new hobby.
Bonus that I'm using bullets and powder that cost 2/3 (or less). Extra bonus that I use the same setup as my crow shooting rig during the season to practice my hunting fundamentals.
My .223 trainer is what got my in-laws out shooting rifles. Take a 65 year old woman (or 8 year old kid) and stick them behind something with recoil and/or concussion and see how much (more) time you spend reinforcing proper fundamentals. My F-I-L went from never shooting past 200 yards in his entire life, to shooting a 3" group at 400 yards on his first attempt...he came up from behind the rifle with a smile and new hobby.
Bonus that I'm using bullets and powder that cost 2/3 (or less). Extra bonus that I use the same setup as my crow shooting rig during the season to practice my hunting fundamentals.
I buy Eley Match for about $0.40 a shot in Canada. 223 blaster ammo starts at $1/shot. “Match” 223 runs $2-$4/shot. Even projectiles end up being close to $1/
$289 all in, including shipping. Hard to beat for live fire training. Also a gateway cartridge for non-shooters.
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I quit thinking of my .22s (a Vudoo and a Rim-X) as "trainers," even though my Rim-X is set up exactly as my centerfire rifles. Recoil is a thing. In a 15+ pound .22, there ain't none. It's easy to get sloppy doing positional practice with a .22... then pick up a centerfire with even a little bit of recoil (.223, 6BR) and watch the reticle jump right out of view because you aren't squared up and stable on the prop.
I have never competed with my .223, but it's not because the platform isn't capable. I reload and, because I don't compete with it, I have settled pretty much exclusively on Hornady 75gr ELDMs, Starline brass, and CCI 400 primers. Even with these "budget" components, it hangs right in with my 6BR loaded with Berger/Varget/Alpha components out to 600-700 yards.
Powder? I've gone to Vihtavuori for everything. Hodgdon has just gotten too bleeping expensive for the popular powders. I just bought a jug of N150 for 6BR; shipped cost was $371. Shipped cost for a jug of Varget would have been $480. Charge weights are essentially identical for the two.
BOTTOM LINE is a .223 makes sense as a trainer, especially if (a) main match caliber is a 6BR that doesn't kick much and you shoot enough that a 20% powder charge reduction actually saves a little $, or (b) main match caliber is a real barrel burner.
Imo, a .22 doesn't get it as a trainer due to lack of rrecoil.
YMMV.
Edit: I tried the switch-barrel route; got a .378" .223 bolt to go with the .473" standard bolt for my Defiance action. It turned out to be too much of a pita for me. My centerfire rifles are in MDT ACC chassis; with the long foreend, I take the action out of the chassis to swap barrels because even 40-50 ft-lb of torque applied way out toward the muzzle is more than I want to do. Switch-barrel didn't work for me in my particular set of circumstances.
I have never competed with my .223, but it's not because the platform isn't capable. I reload and, because I don't compete with it, I have settled pretty much exclusively on Hornady 75gr ELDMs, Starline brass, and CCI 400 primers. Even with these "budget" components, it hangs right in with my 6BR loaded with Berger/Varget/Alpha components out to 600-700 yards.
Powder? I've gone to Vihtavuori for everything. Hodgdon has just gotten too bleeping expensive for the popular powders. I just bought a jug of N150 for 6BR; shipped cost was $371. Shipped cost for a jug of Varget would have been $480. Charge weights are essentially identical for the two.
BOTTOM LINE is a .223 makes sense as a trainer, especially if (a) main match caliber is a 6BR that doesn't kick much and you shoot enough that a 20% powder charge reduction actually saves a little $, or (b) main match caliber is a real barrel burner.
Imo, a .22 doesn't get it as a trainer due to lack of rrecoil.
YMMV.
Edit: I tried the switch-barrel route; got a .378" .223 bolt to go with the .473" standard bolt for my Defiance action. It turned out to be too much of a pita for me. My centerfire rifles are in MDT ACC chassis; with the long foreend, I take the action out of the chassis to swap barrels because even 40-50 ft-lb of torque applied way out toward the muzzle is more than I want to do. Switch-barrel didn't work for me in my particular set of circumstances.
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Just my opinion but....
My favorite training round is the same round you compete with. Learning recoil management, catching trace, reading wind, knowing dope in situations where you made a mistake in stage prep, etc are done the most efficiently by practicing with the same equipment you compete with.
The idea of training with lighter/heavier recoiling rifles or less ballistically efficient cartridges sounds good in theory but in reality you're training to became better with a system that acts nothing like what you're competing with.
If cost is your limiting factor spend a lot of time getting really good at all the skills needed to quickly build great shooting positions. If you're focused on saving few cents per shot try your best to build a gun that replicates your match rifle. Example being a 223 with 88gr elds/85.5gr bergers can pretty much replicate a 6br with 105gr hybrids in every way except energy on target within 1000yds. Recoil can be matched by simply using a less effective muzzle brake or suppressor depending on what you use.
Now if you just want a rifle that's cheaper to shoot so you can shoot more 22lr is king and it's hard to beat 223 with centerfires.
Truth. My 75gr .223 loads are so close to my 105gr 6BR loads ballistically that I once shot a whole match using my calculator's .223 profile instead of the (correct) 6BR profile, and did fine on all but the 800+ yard stages. The 6BR has minimally more recoil, of course, in otherwise identical rifles, but not much at all.
I shot a match several weeks ago with my 6.5CM barrel on the usually-6BR action just because I already had ammo loaded... I practiced enough that I was reacclimatized to the 6.5CM recoil, but I wouldn't have wanted to go from .223 to 6.5CM without at least a couple of practice sessions first.
Ive heard that the hornady match ammo is usually pretty good, the hunting ammo seems to be hit or miss depending on your rifle
Along the factory ammo lines, anyone use the s&b fmj for range fodder? It's about the least expensive I've seen anywhere. I saw reviews online that some people had issues with it being too hot, but I'm wondering if they fixed that issue.
Along the factory ammo lines, anyone use the s&b fmj for range fodder? It's about the least expensive I've seen anywhere. I saw reviews online that some people had issues with it being too hot, but I'm wondering if they fixed that issue.
IMO 80% of training can be achieved with cheap ammo like CCI Standard velocity, inside of 100yards I don’t think CCI SV give up anything for training purposes, and inside of 150yards you still have good enough precision.
This may be controversial but I don’t believe you need to build a trainer that perfectly matches your centrefire comp rifle.
Most people over think it, or probably more realistically (as above) use it as an excuse to build a new rifle.
General rifle handling, building a position, getting comfortable with rifle controls and gear can all be achieved with dry fire.
This probably makes up 70% of all your training requirements, probably even more.
22lr will teach you wind reading, trigger control (more so that dry fire IMO), breathing, and basic recoil management (not joking).
This doesn’t have to exactly match you comp rifle, if you can shoot a 10lb 22lr that is close to your main rifle well of barricades then when you shoot your perfectly balanced 24lb rifle if feels like cheating.
Most people over think it, or probably more realistically (as above) use it as an excuse to build a new rifle.
General rifle handling, building a position, getting comfortable with rifle controls and gear can all be achieved with dry fire.
This probably makes up 70% of all your training requirements, probably even more.
22lr will teach you wind reading, trigger control (more so that dry fire IMO), breathing, and basic recoil management (not joking).
This doesn’t have to exactly match you comp rifle, if you can shoot a 10lb 22lr that is close to your main rifle well of barricades then when you shoot your perfectly balanced 24lb rifle if feels like cheating.
I agree that the majority of training can be accomplished without shooting a round.
I disagree that training with a 22lr instead of a duplicate(or close to) centerfire training rifle will provide as good of training. Assuming you are competing in centerfire competition that is. It's definitely better than no live fire at all but there are nuances that training with a dramaticly different cartridge won't provide. Training is always better than no training but training with the exact equipment you're going to use is always going to be the most effective.
I kind of went through the sake evolution. If you load similar quality components in both the 223 and 6mm or 6.5mm you don't save much $. I sold my 223 and kids and wife shoot the 6mm just fine. I hated loading the little 223 cases anyways.
Same thing with the Dillon and everything else. Set it up to run "practice" ammo for your main gun and and it's a wash.
Now the 22LR is great for teaching trigger press and seeing drift and drop at close enough ranges. We shoot a lot of 22lr still.
I find in my stronger positions I’ll out shoot CCISV at 100. Even a good practice day in the low standing and low kneeling positions give me tight groups than CCI will shoot. Almost all my practice is on paper though, so I know where every shot goes.
I agree that using the same cartridge is better, but due to Range requirements and cost, that would end my competitive shooting. I also work out at home and save the membership cost. YMMV.
I dry fire often. It is a big part of my training. I also shoot 22LR regularly. It is a pretty effective training round, especially at 200 yards.
The only issue with training down in caliber is that your recoil management fundamentals will suffer. When I was down for the count on my 300 PRC while its scope was getting worked on, I did a lot with my 6 BRA. When I got the 300 back up and running, I was... a bit rusty. The 6 just bred bad habits.
My practice rifle now is a shorty 308 firing Berger 155s. It gives me a fair amount of recoil due to its lower weight from the short barrel, and allows me to get some good wind practice in when it's blowing.
My practice rifle now is a shorty 308 firing Berger 155s. It gives me a fair amount of recoil due to its lower weight from the short barrel, and allows me to get some good wind practice in when it's blowing.
I like shooting .308 for this purpose - enough recoil to keep you honest about your fundamentals.
I get sloppy too when I spend too much time shooting 6BRA. Shooting is absolutely a perishable skill.
I agree with the benefits of recoil management with the .308 as mentioned above a couple times.
I do find though that concentrating and trying to shoot small with smaller cartridges will keep me from getting complacent with my fundamentals. So instead of just trying to hit a piece of steel etc... I'm trying to keep a half-minute group on that piece of steel (which I frequently fail)
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Even though I'm a .223 guy, I still love the .308. That slow push is something like the equivalent of shooting a 1911 in .45.
I do find though that concentrating and trying to shoot small with smaller cartridges will keep me from getting complacent with my fundamentals. So instead of just trying to hit a piece of steel etc... I'm trying to keep a half-minute group on that piece of steel (which I frequently fail)
.Even though I'm a .223 guy, I still love the .308. That slow push is something like the equivalent of shooting a 1911 in .45.
I am getting sick of seeing 6.5 Creed 140 ELD-M over $40/box these days. I really need to consider a 22LR or 223 trainer. Fingers crossed AI drops the 223 conversions for the AT-XC, of course if they do it'll likely be 2028 and I will already be on the next gen SA AI lol.
22LR. Shooting it 250yds+ is challenging. Sharpens your mechanics and really have to be on your wind game.
I agree with the benefits of recoil management with the .308 as mentioned above a couple times.
I do find though that concentrating and trying to shoot small with smaller cartridges will keep me from getting complacent with my fundamentals. So instead of just trying to hit a piece of steel etc... I'm trying to keep a half-minute group on that piece of steel (which I frequently fail)
Even though I'm a .223 guy, I still love the .308. That slow push is something like the equivalent of shooting a 1911 in .45.
Why I wouldn't get too hung up on building and exact replica trainer, unless one what's to build a 22lr, 223, 6 Dasher and a 308 that are all exactly the same.
Use different cartridges for training different things, 22lr cheap trigger time/wind, 308 for recoil management, etc.
I'd you can manage recoil from a 14lb 308 and can shoot well from a barricade from a non-perfectly balanced 10lb 22lr, when you shoot your 22lb 6dasher it'll feel like cheating.
Have you given any of the more “ budget friendly “ 6.5 CM factory loads a try? Hornady’s American Gunner, 140 grain BTHP and AAC 140 grain SMK . Granted, they may not be competition rounds, but they’ve given me no reason to feel I need $40 a box ammo for recreational range shooting. Both easily sub MOA at 100 yards and very accurate on 3 and 4” gongs at 500 yards ( our range limit ) through my Tikka. Just a suggestion, if you haven’t tried them.
I have not tried either of those. I am not opposed to giving some cheaper stuff a whirl but I am usually playing in that 700-1000 yard range with the 6.5 Creedmoor and I need the ammo to be consistent enough to still hold 2moa at those distances. I'll see about picking up a box of those to give it shot next time I run across it.
Yep, can’t guarantee of course how successful they would be out of your gun but I’ve seen reports on both out to 1K. Worth a shot! I hope to be trying the American Gunner out to 1K this weekend.
Have you tried Norma? This stuff has been solid for the price. Good enough for practice for me.
PMC XTac Match loaded with 77 grain SMK. Very good out of my Savage Model 12 LRPV.
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