FBI Sniper Rifles

[Random Guy]

I don’t know know about those (Secret Service) rifles, but I did note the Leupold scope in post 96 is actually a fixed power 10x scope with M1 turrets (not variable power). The 2nd picture sort of shows the large font logo on the bottom of scope, so it’s possibly an old scope, maybe even the old M1A Ultra? Just an FYI observation.

 

[j-huskey]

The scopes for these older Rem700/Win70 FBI rifles are nothing special.

Leupold 3.5-10x40 Vari-XIII Tactical. I think most had Mil-dot reticles but some had standard Duplex’s.

All of Ray's model 70 m40a1 clones that I saw, handled, fondled, shot had mil-dot. Dont remember a duplex. I think Urey's Red book showed the duplex though. Will dig one out and look. Also have Urey original issue data book. Pics will follow tomorrow.

 

[Skunk]

The only reason I know of the Duplex scopes is because there was one in the FBI Mobile vault up until about 4yrs ago. I doubt there were many as the mild-dot is much more useful.

Random Guy, your observation is correct, but I’m talking about FBI rifles. I don’t know why Secret Service stuff is being injected here. I have no idea what their stuff is comprised of.

 

[Random Guy]

Oops, yea, I was confused about what scope was being discussed.

 

[j-huskey]

All of Ray's model 70 m40a1 clones that I saw, handled, fondled, shot had mil-dot. Dont remember a duplex. I think Urey's Red book showed the duplex though. Will dig one out and look. Also have Urey original issue data book. Pics will follow tomorrow.

I had a duplex in the 700pss LE kit rimingtun sold. Traded around until I got a mil-dot like the ones on Ray's guns...
But, alas, even that scope is now gone.. so is the rimingtun that was then. It's still around the hood in a different place. Might be able to coax it out in its blue camo stock for a photo... might...

The rimingtun was replaced by a built 70, just like Ray's, it wore the 3.5-10 mildot, then the first 4.5-14-40 mildot (scope still present and accounted for...), then a 4.5-14-50 mildot that's still on it... hmm, I suppose yall want pics too...

And, I suppose yall want pics of the twin 70 as well that went from m40a1 to an A3 McM stock, and a 4-16 S&B pmII... that I carried at work 16 years...
And I suppose yall want to see the built 70 that went into the old m40 stock off the work twin, and the USMC cobbled cheek piece that got built on it...

Will they cooperate and pose for pics.. will they... reclusive creatures they are. All Ray Sweet approved though... not built by him, but, approved...

 

[Stevo86]

This thread has got me interested in using a pre war model 70 action I have to build one of these. The mcmillan stock looks very similar to there “Winchester hunter” just in urban Camo. I sent them an email asking. Hopefully I’ll hear from them in a few days.

 

[Masta_Gunz]

And, here's a Remington "kit" I'm putting together. This one will be pretty special. It's an original stock, barrel, scope, mount, rings, bottom metal and trigger. I just need to bed it and send for blue. This is going to be a retirement gift for a friend of mine this fall.View attachment 7347745View attachment 7347746

What kind of cheek riser is that? Very well done, nice build. Please and thank you.

--Masta Gunz

 

[njohn890]

The only reason I know of the Duplex scopes is because there was one in the FBI Mobile vault up until about 4yrs ago. I doubt there were many as the mild-dot is much more useful.

Random Guy, your observation is correct, but I’m talking about FBI rifles. I don’t know why Secret Service stuff is being injected here. I have no idea what their stuff is comprised of.

Sorry my bad, the subject came up and I contributed to a little thread drift there. Back to FBI stuff which is very cool. Again thanks for sharing all of this data and excellent photos.

 

[j-huskey]

What kind of cheek riser is that? Very well done, nice build. Please and thank you.

--Masta Gunz

Once upon a time, sniper went to a shoe or saddle shop and form cut a piece of leather and shoe-goo glued it on. Shoe-goo was the same stuff used to glue the canvas crawl plate pieces to the front of misguided children's school class made ghillie suits. Ive seen leather cut and glued looking like that.
Did it with a mouse pad....

And then there was the brownells cheek-eez, which when cut and fitted, looks like the fitted leather, and looks a lot like the picture.

@Skunk will have to tell us if it's any of the iterations I mention.

I dont see the fat Brownells Cheek-eez I used before I built a cheek piece out of bondo, or the one I made out of PVC pipe and micro-bed and sheet metal screws so I could take it off to clean the rifle. A pic of that one will appear sometimes tomorrow.

 

[j-huskey]

All of Ray's model 70 m40a1 clones that I saw, handled, fondled, shot had mil-dot. Dont remember a duplex. I think Urey's Red book showed the duplex though. Will dig one out and look. Also have Urey original issue data book. Pics will follow tomorrow.

Red book and later yellow book. By Urey Patrick.
Note the rifle on the cover is a R700 in FBI M40A1 configuration wearing a Leupold 3.5-10x40 target turret scope.

And attached is a screenshot of "the page where Patrick recommends the duplex"...

There was no reticle pic in either the red or yellow book.
Havent dug out the FBI data book yet, but it's in the que line.
And havent located the box of "other stuff" Ray sent me. Shits been stored the last 9 years.... more like buried..
Somewhere in there is that reticle pic.

And for @Skunk , I got dinged by my ace #1 guy who not so gently reminded me the scope on his rifle WAS a duplex, and wasnt until he got the HSP that he got a mildot 3.5-10x40.
I shot the rifle enough I should remember, but...
I remember hating the one on my LE rimingtun package, it may cloud my perceptions.
Some digression here,... But, as I dig further, there are things I do remember as I go through old training records and data books...
As @njohn890 spoke of the 10x scope relating to the SS rifle, I do remember that the only fixed 10 available to us was the MK4 10X, as the M1 10X Ultra was pretty much U.S. Army on the M24. And discontinued for some unknown reason.
The Unertl was unobtanium and those of us wanting to upgrade to mildots like the HRT rifle and to be competitive in the mil schools we finagled ourselves into, had the one choice of the MK4-10X.
Those of us in 200 and in training found out oh so very quick that the fixed 10 SUCKED with no field of view, fine for long range or long range mil schools, but not real world LE.
I do remember ditching the 10x and going back to the 3.5-10 duplex until the 3.5-10×40 mildot, then 4.5-14×40 mildot came out. And hating the duplex after shooting a Unertl and the MK4 mildots.
So much for the memories... data book pics next up, and hopefully finding Ray's big box of stuff...
And maybe the reclusive animal pics of those 70's...

 

[j-huskey]

^^^^^ Short explanation on some scope changes from 3.5-10×40 to 4.5-14×40.... still had some pretty good field of view with the 4.5 but, the 14x over 10x made identification easier, and the quality of targets used in training where an instructor penned in teardrop tattoos on copy machine targets, well, I wanted X... to see. And that led to the 4-16 S&B... had to have more X until the lost field of view with those combos bit me.
The infamous cigarette man qual target with ink pin for dimension. Imagine penned in tear drop tattoos..

Urey Patrick covered how critical FOV was in the red and yellow books. I should have paid much closer attention to that OLD guy... but, I was young and dumb... just sayin...
Until the night the full auto AK47 dumped a full mag, and 13 hours at 45 yards was a wake up education for a less young but still mildly retarded person on a sniper rifle.
Thank God for old Vets like Ray Sweet who knew how to build the best rifles AND adjust the headspace on a retard me..
Sorry for the digression...

 

[j-huskey]

So, once our clones are built, you can use this to do the FBI qual...

And if you have any doubt of the misguided children's influence on the FBI Sniper rifle or training...

 

[j-huskey]

Data Books 86 revision with old old old model 70 hunting rifle on front.. and 96 revision with an ugly on front.
I found my 94 data book...

Both 86 and 96 revisions show the reticle pic I was looking for.
86

96 (same stuff)

Along with .... which wasnt in the 86...

 

[j-huskey]

And more from 86

Pay attention to the scopes listed... all were in FBI service at some point.

And note, absolutely zero reference to the mil dot...

Will have to dig deeper.
Will I find a mildot data book. I dont know, I dont remember one. Finding my 94 book restored a bunch of memories.
@Skunk , have you ever seen a HRT specific data book or another variant including the mildot reticle ?

FBI freely gave us the red and yellow books, the data books, and a bunch of training. I still havent found Ray's big box. Still looking...

And then I found the 89 misguided children booklet that Ray issued HRT or some of them anyway, and it's the only mildot ref I CAN FIND, that I know he sent. Along with the m16a1 thing that Agents had in their bucars and we got from 10-33....

 

[D_TROS]

UMMM STICKY THREAD???

Awesome compilation ina mere 3 days!

DT

 

[Skunk]

Hmm. Data books.... I haven’t seen one of those paper ones in a bit, but they were being passed out at schools up until a few years ago.

Tony Glaze at Impact is a great supporter of the Bu and has been helping the Sniper Program on a data book. This project is in a somewhat evolving state. Moving toward a more customizable three-ring type book and Kestrels these days.

I’ll dig up some of my old stuff later tonight.

Also, apologies to the guys who were posting/talking about the Secret Service guns/scopes. I went and re-read my post regarding that and I kinda sounded like a dickhead. That wasn’t my intent. Sorry.

 

[njohn890]

Hmm. Data books.... I haven’t seen one of those paper ones in a bit, but they were being passed out at schools up until a few years ago.

Tony Glaze at Impact is a great supporter of the Bu and has been helping the Sniper Program on a data book. This project is in a somewhat evolving state. Moving toward a more customizable three-ring type book and Kestrels these days.

I’ll dig up some of my old stuff later tonight.

Also, apologies to the guys who were posting/talking about the Secret Service guns/scopes. I went and re-read my post regarding that and I kinda sounded like a dickhead. That wasn’t my intent. Sorry.

No offense taken at all it’s all good. Tone is always hard to interpret in text only but no worries I didn’t take it as such. Would hate to derail an awesome thread like this.

Enjoying the depth of material you have posted here, as I said earlier these rifles and others like the early NSWC rifles ( M86 etc ) pre date the internet so photos and details are scarce.

 

[Skunk]

Ok, I've got a Rev. 7-7-97 data book here. Has the Duplex and Widefield info in it still, so not sure what the differences would be from those @j-huskey posted. Probably info relating to the approved service ammo?? Dunno. And a pic of the current book...

As for the cheek pieces... Both of the stocks I have here have leather that looks pretty hand-made. Definitely two layers thick and dyed black. Glued on. The one on the Winny stock has come off, so I'll need to reapply it. Definitely leather and showing evidence of being shaped on a belt sander, I think.

 

[Skunk]

 

[Skunk]

The little Record Book should be easy to reproduce....

An original scope, rings and mount off a Remington. This one has a Duplex and the magnification ring actually clicks at each magnification reference as you twist it. Bottom screw rings and the mount says 700SA on the bottom. The mount is still polished blue on the bottom but is matte on the sides and top....like it was blasted and blued/parked after it came out of the pkg.

 

[Xcount]

Any use of McMillan M86 by any alphabet agencies? I believe some of these were used in the 80's by guys "hanging out" at beaches in Coronado and Little Creek.

Anything look familiar Skunk?

 

[Skunk]

Awesome! I miss that old scope sometimes. Glad it's still kicking!

 

[Xcount]

the scope is like a spring chicken compared to the age of the rifle. everything still works great though.

 

[Random Guy]

Wow, the last several posts on this thread have been really informative(!). I learned a lot in the last 10 minutes looking at those posts.

Didn’t expect to see an M86 rifle in this thread, that’s pretty neat too. I read 460 of them were delivered to USSOCOM in 1986-87 and I’ve seen a few pics of them being used by SEALS, but thats about all I know. (BTW, I have the same scope, but serial # T0193, so 101 units away from the one seen).

 

[Sierra770]

The only HRT specific data book that I seen have been recent productions.

 

[Masta_Gunz]

Once upon a time, sniper went to a shoe or saddle shop and form cut a piece of leather and shoe-goo glued it on. Shoe-goo was the same stuff used to glue the canvas crawl plate pieces to the front of misguided children's school class made ghillie suits. Ive seen leather cut and glued looking like that.
Did it with a mouse pad....

And then there was the brownells cheek-eez, which when cut and fitted, looks like the fitted leather, and looks a lot like the picture.

View attachment 7351757
View attachment 7351758

@Skunk will have to tell us if it's any of the iterations I mention.

I dont see the fat Brownells Cheek-eez I used before I built a cheek piece out of bondo, or the one I made out of PVC pipe and micro-bed and sheet metal screws so I could take it off to clean the rifle. A pic of that one will appear sometimes tomorrow.

Thank you

 

[j-huskey]

Thank you

Most welcome.

@Skunk posted later that one he has was leather and had come loose.

I remember those leather ones and how bad the black dye smelled. And how bad it could came off on the face on a really hot day when sweat was running like a river. Took days to get off the face. That would eventually stop bleeding out on you.
We dyed them, shoe polished them, and rattle can painted them. Paint dried the leather out pretty bad and could make it start to deteriorate and start shedding.

So, we wrapped bow tape around them, ace bandages, athletic tape, cut off bdu shirt sleeves with 550 cord lacing, elastic ammo sleeves, and in my earlier post, I settled on a mouse pad instead of leather.
Then the bondo or micro-bed cheek pieces because the tape, bandages, and cloth would get ripped off in a really rough stalk exercise.
Then, there was the Karsten Kydex cheek piece. The m40a1 and FBI McMillan stock butt area is hollow, and has a spray foam in it to keep the hollow thunk noises down. Drilling through isnt the best idea, over tightening a karsten cheek piece can crack a hollow stock butt. Ask me how I know... well, dont...
We have redone the spray foam inside with a thicker insulation foam, then glued the butt pad back on. Fair to say, we abused those stocks.
Happiness was the A3 solid butt stock with adjustable cheek piece.
This all was before the General Purpose was offered with an adjustable cheek piece. And then McMillan offered the improved version of the GP with a wider forend to put a fatter barrel in or install a NV imbed.

Promised pics will eventually get here.

 

[Toftwo]

Awesome thread, I picked up some very early Post 64 Model 70's for donor guns (late 64 early 65). The SN range may not be correct but couldn't beat the price. I also found an unused FN SPR action. This thread is going to be expensive, lol! Anyone happen to have FN Hinged bottom metal?

 

[j-huskey]

So, the surviving children wanted a re-union.

Pic 1 is the m40a1/Ray FBI clone that started with the 3.5-10×40 duplex, built cheek piece, went to 4.5-14×40, to 4.5-14×50, with Kydex cheek piece, still painted.
With the 4.5-14×40 laying btw ^ and ...
The rifle now wearing the original m40a1 stock with the PVC and bedding compound cheek piece... just to show evolutions.
2nd pic shows scopes closer..
Sorry none are original FBI like @Skunk 's

Followed by the evolution out of the M40a1 stock, into the A3, from the 3.5-10×40, to 4.5-14-40, to the Schmidt & Bender 4-16. Carried 14 years in one configuration or another until as pictured.
Pic 2 is scopes up close.

The blue 700 rifle, colored like Skunks is still elusive, may yet show up. Somebody else owns it.... but, I'm negotiating to try to get it back... might have to settle for pic..

And now, after no reference here, to the first Sniper rifle I ever carried, thanks to the influence of Ray and the AMU guys, Old Hook, and many who will stay nameless..
That rifle, now super cleaned, babied, and all that, with the rebuilt Unertl that had serious abuse...

Last pic shows an evolution in a career. Missing the 3.5-10×40 duplex I hated, and the MK4-10× that was a danger to itself and others.

I found enough data books to track rifles, scopes, stocks, and barrel years, but that isnt the point of this topic.

Now, the children and I slither back into some hiding places.

The rifle evolution could show the GA Precision AR10 with 3-12 S&B, brought on by the encounter with full auto AK at 45 yards,
To the AI AT and NF carried by my dept today, but, let's stay with @Skunk 's much more interesting FBI clones, on topic.

More @Skunk , More !!
Pleeeeeeze

 

[Random Guy]

Data Books 86 revision with old old old model 70 hunting rifle on front.. and 96 revision with an ugly on front.
I found my 94 data book...

Ok, I've got a Rev. 7-7-97 data book here. Has the Duplex and Widefield info in it still, so not sure what the differences would be from those @j-huskey posted. Probably info relating to the approved service ammo?? Dunno. And a pic of the current book...

I noted that both the 1996 book and Rev 7-7-97 book both show the Styer SSG-69 rifle on the front. However, I don't think the FBI used them, but wanted to inquire since those 2 books feature that rifle on the front. (The only federal US law enforcement entity that I read who used those rifles was a US Border Patrol unit/BORTAC?) Just wanted to verify if the image on the book covers was sort-of a random choice, or if some FBI SWAT teams may have used the SSG-69. Just curious)

 

[j-huskey]

I noted that both the 1996 book and Rev 7-7-97 book both show the Styer SSG-69 rifle on the front. However, I don't think the FBI used them, but wanted to inquire since those 2 books feature that rifle on the front. (The only federal US law enforcement entity that I read who used those rifles was a US Border Patrol unit/BORTAC?) Just wanted to verify if the image on the book covers was sort-of a random choice, or if some FBI SWAT teams may have used the SSG-69. Just curious)

I "THINK" it was just random choice, I dont know how many fed agencies might have used the book. Never knew any agents using the Steyr.

 

[j-huskey]

So, in Jimmy Buffetz song, the words "Temptation got the best of me, and I took a" AI AT pic... sorry guys.

 

[Toftwo]

So, the surviving children wanted a re-union.

Pic 1 is the m40a1/Ray FBI clone that started with the 3.5-10×40 duplex, built cheek piece, went to 4.5-14×40, to 4.5-14×50, with Kydex cheek piece, still painted.
With the 4.5-14×40 laying btw ^ and ...
The rifle now wearing the original m40a1 stock with the PVC and bedding compound cheek piece... just to show evolutions.
2nd pic shows scopes closer..
Sorry none are original FBI like @Skunk 's

View attachment 7353285
View attachment 7353286

Followed by the evolution out of the M40a1 stock, into the A3, from the 3.5-10×40, to 4.5-14-40, to the Schmidt & Bender 4-16. Carried 14 years in one configuration or another until as pictured.
Pic 2 is scopes up close.

View attachment 7353295
View attachment 7353296

The blue 700 rifle, colored like Skunks is still elusive, may yet show up. Somebody else owns it.... but, I'm negotiating to try to get it back... might have to settle for pic..

And now, after no reference here, to the first Sniper rifle I ever carried, thanks to the influence of Ray and the AMU guys, Old Hook, and many who will stay nameless..
That rifle, now super cleaned, babied, and all that, with the rebuilt Unertl that had serious abuse...

View attachment 7353303
View attachment 7353305

Last pic shows an evolution in a career. Missing the 3.5-10×40 duplex I hated, and the MK4-10× that was a danger to itself and others.

I found enough data books to track rifles, scopes, stocks, and barrel years, but that isnt the point of this topic.

Now, the children and I slither back into some hiding places.

The rifle evolution could show the GA Precision AR10 with 3-12 S&B, brought on by the encounter with full auto AK at 45 yards,
To the AI AT and NF carried by my dept today, but, let's stay with @Skunk 's much more interesting FBI clones, on topic.

More @Skunk , More !!
Pleeeeeeze

What one piece scope mount is that on the McMillan stocked 70's in this pic?

 

[j-huskey]

That, my friend, is what happens when nobody makes a mount for a pre-64 model 70. We made our own. Homemade.
For us, by us. Another history story.
Necessity, the mother of invention.

Now, Badger rails are what I buy.

 

[RTH1800]

@j-huskey
Are those Eagle seed beans?

 

[Skunk]

If the FBI ever used a SSG, I’ve never heard of it.

 

[sandwarrior]

So, what exactly was an M86? A Voere? The only M86 I know is the Parker Hale. Very different from the pics I'm seeing.

 

[Toftwo]

That, my friend, is what happens when nobody makes a mount for a pre-64 model 70. We made our own. Homemade.
For us, by us. Another history story.
Necessity, the mother of invention.

Now, Badger rails are what I buy.

That's awesome! I buy Badger also, but now I want one of those! Damn, the slope is slippery! I noticed one looks like it has more slots than the other. At first glance it made me think of a brookfield tool M14 mount. With all that being said, that Pre 64 Target in the Marksman stock is the sexy-est of the bunch!

 

[Random Guy]

So, what exactly was an M86?

Others will know more, but here's what I have read. The M86 was a 308W sniper rifle that used a 24" heavy profile 1/12 twist barrel (with 5R rifling) in a McMillan stock. The pics I have seen have tan camo pattern, and have 10X Leupold tactical scopes with a 1-piece scope mount. I think they were primarily used as US Navy SEAL 308W sniper rifles from the mid-1980s to the early 1990s. However, other entities apparently used some as well. There are numerous errors in the book by Joe Poyner, Collecting The American Sniper Rifle 1945-2000, however, his book is one of the very few with background info on the M86 rifle. He states that beginning in 1985, 460 rifles were delivered to U.S. Special Operations Command. Here's a curious excerpt on page 127:

"The M86 Sniper Rifle was first delivered to the U.S. Naval Warfare Command in 1985 and it became the issue sniper rifle for SEAL teams. A small number were also acquired by U.S. Marines to supplement their M40A1 sniper rifle. Other government agencies such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and several police departments also acquired the M86 over the years."(My note: only references I have ever seen re the last two statements).

I don't know anything about the veracity of that sentence, but thought I'd mention it since this thread is about FBI sniper rifles. The original M86 actions were made by G. McMillan and Company that was formed in 1984, but by 1990 the name changed to McMillan Gun Works and various other changes took place, as I think the company went defunct about that time. I have never seen an M86 rifle in person, only in books and a few pics on the net. The Navy replaced them in the early 1990s with the M91 rifle, which used a standard Remington M700 long action recevier....later those were converted to 300 Win Mag. That's about all I know.

Attached pics are I think of a Navy barge (note wooden deck) that was used in 1991 Desert Storm for I think overwatch of shipboard inspections in the Persian Gulf. The big rifle is the old single shot M88 /50BMG caliber. I have not seen any other references to the FBI acquiring M86s, so I'll defer to the experts on that topic....

 

[j-huskey]

@j-huskey
Are those Eagle seed beans?

Yes, large, forage beans. 26% protein, FAT deer....

 

[scharfschutze762]

So, what exactly was an M86? A Voere? The only M86 I know is the Parker Hale. Very different from the pics I'm seeing.

Im not aware of a M86 Parker and Hale. I thought it was M85. do you have a pic?

 

[Random Guy]

Digressing some, but quite sure that was a typo. He meant M85. (I don't own an M85, but I kind-of like this picture of them - the blue/gray/black camo on the bottom one is quite close to the camo job on the FBI sniper rilfes seen in this thread. Random observation.)

 

[scharfschutze762]

Others will know more, but here's what I have read. The M86 was a 308W sniper rifle that used a 24" heavy profile 1/12 twist barrel (with 5R rifling) in a McMillan stock. The pics I have seen have tan camo pattern, and have 10X Leupold tactical scopes with a 1-piece scope mount. I think they were primarily used as US Navy SEAL 308W sniper rifles from the mid-1980s to the early 1990s. However, other entities apparently used some as well. There are numerous errors in the book by Joe Poyner, Collecting The American Sniper Rifle 1945-2000, however, his book is one of the very few with background info on the M86 rifle. He states that beginning in 1985, 460 rifles were delivered to U.S. Special Operations Command. Here's a curious excerpt on page 127:



I don't know anything about the veracity of that sentence, but thought I'd mention it since this thread is about FBI sniper rifles. The original M86 actions were made by G. McMillan and Company that was formed in 1984, but by 1990 the name changed to McMillan Gun Works and various other changes took place, as I think the company went defunct about that time. I have never seen an M86 rifle in person, only in books and a few pics on the net. The Navy replaced them in the early 1990s with the M91 rifle, which used a standard Remington M700 long action recevier....later those were converted to 300 Win Mag. That's about all I know.

Attached pics are I think of a Navy barge (note wooden deck) that was used in 1991 Desert Storm for I think overwatch of shipboard inspections in the Persian Gulf. The big rifle is the old single shot M88 /50BMG caliber. I have not seen any other references to the FBI acquiring M86s, so I'll defer to the experts on that topic....

FYI Crane is giving these M86 rifles away as trophy rifles for the service rifle shooters. They are really cool rifles and some had B&L 10x scopes on them.

 

[Random Guy]

Neat, I didn't know that. Poyner's book does reference the B&L Tactical 10X scope on the M86, but no picture was provided.
That would be a very cool trophy rifle. (Attached is a old Popular Mechanics article from the early 1990s with an M86 rifle).

Regarding the FBI and mysterious reference to the M86, I'm not convinced it was used. It would seem quite odd given all the knowledge on this thread....

 

[RTH1800]

I have planted many hundreds of acres of them. Do you deal with Brad? Great product, great guy.

 

[Skunk]

A few other detail shots I have of the M70 I showed earlier in the thread.

 

[j-huskey]

I have planted many hundreds of acres of them. Do you deal with Brad? Great product, great guy.

Get them through local Farm Co-op. I'm way down the food chain. Great Product, much agreed, planted then several years. Love the results.

 

[sandwarrior]

Im not aware of a M86 Parker and Hale. I thought it was M85. do you have a pic?

There was an M82, which most have seen. The M84, single shot version, M86 between the single shot M84 and (what Canada adopted as the C3A1) M87. From what I have seen, the M86 is a blind magazine version of the box magazine fed M87. Not fact, just what I've seen it called. I've never handled one. It has the squared off top with a step-down where the rear scope base is mounted.

The M85 (which I want so bad, except it's .308) has a complete flat top with the escutcheon (no step down) for the rear sight. I might be with you on this, but that would be my favorite sniper rifle. If only it was chambered in a LOOOOONNG range cartridge instead of 7.62x51 NATO.

Added: I meant to mention the bolt shroud on the M86 pictured above is a big squared-off piece of metal. What's the purpose on that? Better guns with smaller shrouds have shot better. Unless I'm unaware of some super-secret SOUP record?

 

[Xcount]

FYI Crane is giving these M86 rifles away as trophy rifles for the service rifle shooters. They are really cool rifles and some had B&L 10x scopes on them.

well that hits me in the gut. I won seven trophy Garands in the early 2000's for pistol shooting, made P100 in '06. I would make sure I won one a M86 if I was still allowed to. There was a time when even retired Navy could earn a trophy rifle.

BTW, the M86 was followed up on the teams with the M89 in .300WM, then they went to building the R700 in 300WM. I knew the armorer at Crane that built them. He would come out to San Diego with the support van for the PACFLT matches every summer and also Camp Perry. The M86 has a 5P barrel, supposedly made by one of the McMillan's, maybe Rock? They might have used Bill Wiseman for a time. Mine has the original barrel, 5P. Still shoots well.

 

[scharfschutze762]

A few other detail shots I have of the M70 I showed earlier in the thread. View attachment 7353577View attachment 7353578View attachment 7353579View attachment 7353580

A few other detail shots I have of the M70 I showed earlier in the thread. View attachment 7353577View attachment 7353578View attachment 7353579View attachment 7353580

Must be nice to have extra thumbs.. are you one of those govt aliens the conspiracy people talk about?