Feds collecting garbage in Portland

[W54/XM-388]

Since we're playing make-believe...If an unmarked van rolls up on a 2nd rally and arrests a convicted felon carrying a firearm...I'm okay with that.

And that's why we have already lost the plot and are way behind the curve, because too many folks gladly relegate the 2A to a second or third class right or not even a right at all but rather a privilege that can be revoked indefinitely with little recourse for such simple things as having too many bullets in your plastic holder, having your metal tube just a touch too short, selling your unused corporate theme park tickets because your family couldn't make it......

 

[seanh]

Let's keep things equal.

If Second Amendment Rally's start blocking traffic, destroying emergency vehicles, assaulting police officers, burning buildings, looting, assaulting people, going out of their way to create fear, panic in trying to stop people from there right to life liberty Pursuit of Happiness, taking care of their family...THEY ARE ARMED TERRORISTS- TREAT THEM WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE

 

[Steel head]

the irony of people advocating for communism complaining about being thrown in unmarked cars and being taken away

 

[EddieNFL]

And that's why we have already lost the plot and are way behind the curve, because too many folks gladly relegate the 2A to a second or third class right or not even a right at all but rather a privilege that can be revoked indefinitely with little recourse for such simple things as having too many bullets in your plastic holder, having your metal tube just a touch too short, selling your unused corporate theme park tickets because your family couldn't make it......

Ah, a believer in automatic rights restoration.

 

[seanh]

Nothing wrong with having rights restored. Once they've paid their debt to society, proving that they're not repeat offenders or break the law in any relevant capacity... sure they can have the rights back.

 

[EddieNFL]

Nothing wrong with having rights restored. Once they've paid their debt to society, proving that they're not repeat offenders or break the law in any relevant capacity... sure they can have the rights back.

In certain cases. In others, nothing right with it. I do not agree with automatic restortation.

 

[W54/XM-388]

In certain cases. In others, nothing right with it. I do not agree with automatic restortation.

Ask yourself this, does the other side let their folks have their 1A rights abridged for any reason, or for that matter any other rights they care about?

You've totally fallen into the whole labels trap and the other side laughs at you as you go "what about muh felons...."

Have you ever stopped to actually research all the things that you can get a "felon" label hung on you for that shouldn't even be crimes at all or may be things you do without knowing? Park in the wrong spot, get lost in a snow storm and drive down the wrong road, all kinds of stupid things, even things that are totally legal in many states but some politician in some little corner got paid off to make it illegal.

Once you agreed that your GOD given, Inalienable rights, that the government was specifically prohibited from infringing on could actually be taken away from you, well you pretty much went from rights to privileges.

The bill of rights does not say after each right... shall not be infringed unless you can catch them in something and then well you are good to take them away.
You'll notice the left wing side vehemently argues that point home for everything..... except the 2A... I wonder why?....

There are folks with all kinds of tags hung around their necks, I would gladly trust, and lots of folks with squeaky clean pages that I would never trust.

Take a look for example at some of the high profile mass murders... done by "felons" with a long rap sheet?..... Nope done by someone without any significant criminal record.

I fully understand that it's pointless to try to convince most "good" folks that ALL free men should have ALL their rights according to the constitution.
Just remember, when they find something to hang around your neck, especially when they actually go as far as to lie and change your testimony to mess you up and you now have to live with that tag.... You were one of the ones all in worship of the government overlords.

 

[EddieNFL]

Have you ever stopped to actually research all the things that you can get a "felon" label hung on you for that shouldn't even be crimes at all or may be things you do without knowing?

Yes.

See my above post mentioning different cases. I'm sure you disagree, but I do not believe everyone should own a firearm.

ETA: Clumsy attempt at insulting.

 

[308pirate]

Ah, a believer in automatic rights restoration.

Restoration should be automatic. Those who think it should be otherwise should have the burden to convince a jury for every person they wish to deny restoration.

The opposite is a perversion of liberty.

So which side are you on again?

 

[EddieNFL]

Opposite of yours. Anyone who believes all criminals should automatically have all rights restored upon release should be held responsible for the future crimes many of those released WILL commit.

 

[steelsnob47]

totally support removing the terrorists. my complaint is it took too long and isnt happening on large enuf scale.

 

[seanh]

Restoration should be automatic. Those who think it should be otherwise should have the burden to convince a jury for every person they wish to deny restoration.

The opposite is a perversion of liberty.

So which side are you on again?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please review the defendants criminal records indicating their history of violence...

Please see that no attempt has been made to modify their behavior and decision making process to become a peaceful, nonviolent productive member of society.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Opposite of yours. Anyone who believes all criminals should automatically have all rights restored upon release should be held responsible for the future crimes many of those released WILL commit.

Perhaps those that call for limiting of constitutionally guaranteed natural rights in manners that were not specifically allowed in the bill of rights , should be held responsible directly for all future government abuses of rights.....

Bet you don't like that idea.....

 

[308pirate]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please review the defendants criminal records indicating their history of violence...

Please see that no attempt has been made to modify their behavior and decision making process to become a peaceful, nonviolent productive member of society.

LOL you would be destroyed on cross

 

[EddieNFL]

Perhaps those that call for limiting of constitutionally guaranteed natural rights in manners that were not specifically allowed in the bill of rights , should be held responsible directly for all future government abuses of rights.....

Bet you don't like that idea.....

You would make an excellent lawyer or politician. Your ability to take a snipet of an argument and spin platitudes and loaded statements is impressive.

These is a huge difference between immediately restoring the rights of someone who violated an obscure SEC regulation and a guy who beat his neighbor to death with a hammer. No different than children taken from unfit parents. You don't give the kids back to a mothert or father who snuffed out cigarettes on a 10 month old just because he completed his prison term....or maybe you would.

 

[W54/XM-388]

These is a huge difference between immediately restoring the rights of someone who violated an obscure SEC regulation and a guy who beat his neighbor to death with a hammer. No different than children taken from unfit parents. You don't give the kids back to a mothert or father who snuffed out cigarettes on a 10 month old just because he completed his prison term....or maybe you would.

That is a very logical point.
(but of course I can't pass up the opportunity to ask if the guy who got out of jail after finishing his sentence for beating his neighbour to death with a hammer is going to be somehow prohibited from going to the local hardware store and buying as many hammers as he wants? Will there be any ban on him carrying his hammers? I don't seem to recall anybody loosing a metaphorical right to keep and bear hammers despite them actually being a very common murder weapon.)

The problem however is it never actually goes down like that in the law when it comes to 2A rights, if it did, then it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

But we don't get that because in the end it's all about power and control, so the government sells you on let's do a blanket ban for "felons" because well everybody knows "felony" is only if you like are a brutal murderer, armed robber, child molester or such......

Give it some years and next thing you know you have 6th degree "felonies" for stupid things and "felonies" for things some corporate overlord didn't like, or because somebody wanted more taxes from someone else. Or apparently choosing to express your 1A rights by wearing a mask while walking down the street got made into a "felony" and there goes your rights........ Then as fate would have it, several months later, it's a crime in the same place (VA) to NOT wear a mask in public.

Then they sell you on a blanket ban for "domestic violence," because... it's only about those evil folks that beat their wives and children to a bloody pulp......and next thing you know tossing your car keys on the counter in an "angry manner" is grounds to strip you of some of your rights for life....

Getting your 2A rights back is near impossible even for the smallest of things and usually takes either a huge amount of money or significant political clout.

Now if you could get the laws changed to be specific individually named offenses and not some broad "class" as well as the specific degree of the offense in a rational manner, combined with the state needing to prove that such an ongoing restriction on one's rights was absolutely necessary, coupled with automatic regular appeals, then we are talking something very different from the current system and much more workable..... which pretty much becomes automatic restoration of your rights unless a court specifically determines that you can't have them for some good reason.