Rifle Scopes FFP Scope for LR hunting

[rommel500]

I’m planning on going hunting several times this year as it’s something I’ve not done in years. I lost my dad about 6 months ago unexpectedly and it made me realize I need to enjoy things while I can. Anyways I’m working on a lightweight build chambered in 300prc or 300wm for medium large game.

I really want FFP as it’s what I am used to from my time precision rifle shooting for 10+ years. My budget is 5k for the scope so I think pretty much anything is on the table. I’ve narrowed it down to the following specs.

Minimum 15x max mag
Short length 13 inches or less
Sorta low weight 32ish oz
Mils only

I think my top options are the:

S&B US 3-20
ZCO 4-20
Kahles 3-18
Tangent Theta 3-15 hunter

Anyone have anything else they suggest I look at or have been happy with any of the following on their hunting rifles? I’m kinda torn between the zco and the Schmidt US. I own a couple other S&Bs so I naturally want to go that way.

 

[sodakhunter]

F1 ATACR w MilR reticle. Can see it at low power. Nothing wrong w the rest of your choices either. Just look at reticles at low power. Sometimes the thin ones can be hard to see at dusk or dawn.

 

[uncle_smokey]

I have a TT315M on my lightweight 300WM hunting rifle. I would not change a thing. I think the TT is the lightest on your list and their Gen 2 Mil Dot reticle is perfect for hunting. I’m a few ounces over 8 pounds with sling and ammo and had zero problems humping it in the mountains. Hope this helps.

 

[Matches Malone]

Just use what you’re use to. No reason to switch it up because you’re killing instead of hitting steel, if you’re already use to precision shooting, and are relatively successful in the wind. Some dudes that pack hunt like keeping their shit light, I don’t. I carry the usually 12-15 lb rifle or so. I find it’s better to have field reliability then worry about a few extra pounds to carry that doesn’t bother me that much in the first place.

You’re mag range should be proportionate to the max range you feel comfortable taking game, with consideration to the vital zone radius. I recommend an illuminated reticle on whatever you choose since most of the time anything worth shooting is usually a good part of the time in the first 10 minutes of legal light or the last 10 minutes of legal light, usually both times are dark enough that id be worth havin.

 

[Glassaholic]

OP, you certainly picked the "best of the best" for options. Sorry to hear about your dad, lost mine in 2005, not easy, but I agree with you on enjoying life.

The 300 PRC is a great round that I think is better than the win mag, but both are more than capable for sure. I've used all the scopes you mention above (the ZCO only for a day but that's all I needed to determine it is the king of the hill for ultra shorts). The TT hunter would not be considered an Ultra Short but it would be the best optically/mechanically of the bunch but it also only goes to 15x and for me personally I like to have a little more on the top end. A friend on the Hide @etxccampbell started out with the NF ATACR 4-16, then TT315M, then Kahles K318i and now the ZC420 so I think he could provide a lot of field use knowledge for all of these. One thing I would point out is to look into the TT315M, the features of the Hunter model I just don't see warranting its considering over the M model, yes it has locking turrets, but I've never heard of a TT tactical bumping out of place.

If the reticle doesn't matter too much to you, one other scope I'd recommend would be the Blaser Infinity 4-20x58, it is a FFP scope with 8 mil turret (more than enough for hunting with the PRC/WM) and a bright dot reticle, if they'd come out with one that had wind holds I'd be all over it unfortunately I have spoken with Blaser and they have no plans to do so at this time. This scope was designed by GSO (formerly Optronika), pretty much the best in the business and boasts the largest objective of any short body design.

 

[koshkin]

I'd probably get either 3-15x50 Tangent (either M or H) or March 3-24x52.

I have both and like both. March is the lightest of the breed, so it is on my 280Rem. TT315M is usually in the Grendel.

Both are excellent.

ILya

 

[dirthead1]

I've had a March 3-24x52. It was a nice scope but I was underwhelmed with it optically. At around 20x, the image got a little distorted and dark. Also, the depth of field is very tight, meaning there isn't much of the image in focus as far as depth at a time, so you are constantly adjusting focus when scanning different ranges. I currently have a TT 315P, which I love. Image quality is fantastic and the depth of field is huge. From what I've heard, the optics on the 315P and 315M are exactly the same. So personally, I would get the TT 315 H or M, depending on if you want locking turrets or not, or prefer the Gen 2XR to the Mil Dot reticle. For a hunting scope, the large depth of field offered by the TT would make that the choice for me.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I am sorry for your loss. I agree life is too short and we all need to get more enjoyment in while we can.

IMO, the Tangent is the best of the best. If you'd like to give a call, 516-217-1000, to discuss this it's our pleasure to chat optics
Doug

 

[rommel500]

Thank you everyone for the kind words. Definitely still dealing with the gut punch of losing my dad.

I should have also prefaced I still own a Premier 3-15 with the gen2XR. Maybe that is even an option? I have it on my lightweight .308 hunting rifle at the moment.

I had looked at that Blaser scope but I don't like the reticles...

Sounds like everyone really likes the TT 3-15s... Why no love for the 3-20 S&B US or the ZCO 4-20?

 

[koshkin]

I've had a March 3-24x52. It was a nice scope but I was underwhelmed with it optically. At around 20x, the image got a little distorted and dark. Also, the depth of field is very tight, meaning there isn't much of the image in focus as far as depth at a time, so you are constantly adjusting focus when scanning different ranges. I currently have a TT 315P, which I love. Image quality is fantastic and the depth of field is huge. From what I've heard, the optics on the 315P and 315M are exactly the same. So personally, I would get the TT 315 H or M, depending on if you want locking turrets or not, or prefer the Gen 2XR to the Mil Dot reticle. For a hunting scope, the large depth of field offered by the TT would make that the choice for me.

I have the 3-24x52 and it does not get dark, but the eye relief is a little critical at high mag and depth of field is shallow. That's the price to pay for the magnification range in a package that light.

I use the March as a really good 3-15x scope that can also go up if I have a good steady position and time. If I plan to be spending a lot of time above 20x, there are easier scopes to use out there and I have a few.

TT315M is definitely a more forgiving scope to use, so it all comes down to what you are looking for.

I wanted light weight FFP scope with the most flexibility I could find on my 280, so I put a March on it. TT does something else for me.

When I want the ultimate in image quality at distance, I have a TT525P with Gen 3XR.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you everyone for the kind words. Definitely still dealing with the gut punch of losing my dad.

I should have also prefaced I still own a Premier 3-15 with the gen2XR. Maybe that is even an option? I have it on my lightweight .308 hunting rifle at the moment.

I had looked at that Blaser scope but I don't like the reticles...

Sounds like everyone really likes the TT 3-15s... Why no love for the 3-20 S&B US or the ZCO 4-20?

There is great love for the Ultra Short 3-20 and the ZCO ZC420, but they are heavier than others mentioned, if the weight does not concern you both are excellent options that have superb IQ, DOF and parallax. When I was doing the ultra short review last year during DOF testing I thought the ZCO was better and my friend though the Schmidt Ultra Short was better, all the scopes you mention will function excellently so a lot will come down to reticle and ergonomics. One thing I will mention about the Schmidt is I'd recommend to stay away from the 18 mil DT turrets, Schmidt has the new DT II turrets which I think are different and hopefully an improvement over the 18 mil version (not tactile enough and clicks too close together IMO).

EDIT: The Kahles is also an excellent choice, but its narrow FOV limits its usefulness, but it was my favorite Ultra Short before the ZC420 came out.

 

[A&8's]

ZCO or TT. You just can't beat the clarity. Especially when you're talking hunting. You'll notice the difference between cheaper glass when you start looking at game in the shadows or under less than favorable conditions. Neither of which will phase a ZCO or TT.

 

[CSTactical]

I’m planning on going hunting several times this year as it’s something I’ve not done in years. I lost my dad about 6 months ago unexpectedly and it made me realize I need to enjoy things while I can. Anyways I’m working on a lightweight build chambered in 300prc or 300wm for medium large game.

I really want FFP as it’s what I am used to from my time precision rifle shooting for 10+ years. My budget is 5k for the scope so I think pretty much anything is on the table. I’ve narrowed it down to the following specs.

Minimum 15x max mag
Short length 13 inches or less
Sorta low weight 32ish oz
Mils only

I think my top options are the:

S&B US 3-20
ZCO 4-20
Kahles 3-18
Tangent Theta 3-15 hunter

Anyone have anything else they suggest I look at or have been happy with any of the following on their hunting rifles? I’m kinda torn between the zco and the Schmidt US. I own a couple other S&Bs so I naturally want to go that way.

The ZCO is an excellent option and available, the Tangent Hunter is not officially released yet. Feel free to give me a call at 916-670-1103 and I'll be happy to discuss all the options over the phone

 

[BCX]

Hensoldt 4-16x56. NH-1 is a good reticle for hunting. Thick enough on 4x w FFP and good in low light.

 

[Glassaholic]

Hensoldt 4-16x56. NH-1 is a good reticle for hunting. Thick enough on 4x w FFP and good in low light.

Always loved the NH-1 reticle, but I don't think they offer the scope with this reticle anymore, don't see it on EO, do you know anywhere else they sell it?

 

[BCX]

They don't make it any longer. I have one and hands down my favorite reticle for a crossover scope. Not sure if Hensoldt will do reticle swaps.

 

[BCX]

Search the used market, I'm sure someone has one sitting in the safe.

 

[koshkin]

There is great love for the Ultra Short 3-20 and the ZCO ZC420, but they are heavier than others mentioned, if the weight does not concern you both are excellent options that have superb IQ, DOF and parallax. When I was doing the ultra short review last year during DOF testing I thought the ZCO was better and my friend though the Schmidt Ultra Short was better, all the scopes you mention will function excellently so a lot will come down to reticle and ergonomics. One thing I will mention about the Schmidt is I'd recommend to stay away from the 18 mil DT turrets, Schmidt has the new DT II turrets which I think are different and hopefully an improvement over the 18 mil version (not tactile enough and clicks too close together IMO).

EDIT: The Kahles is also an excellent choice, but its narrow FOV limits its usefulness, but it was my favorite Ultra Short before the ZC420 came out.

The new S&B turrets they had at SHOT were really nice. I played with them at SHOT and also used a slightly different version of the new turret on the 3.5-21x50 Exos during range day.

ILya

 

[Rerun7]

Not sure if you have any flexibility in length but the Vortex AMG is another solid choice that meets your criteria other than length.

 

[koshkin]

Not sure if you have any flexibility in length but the Vortex AMG is another solid choice that meets your criteria other than length.

I have that one too. If he is OK with 6x on the low end, it is a superb option.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

The new S&B turrets they had at SHOT were really nice. I played with them at SHOT and also used a slightly different version of the new turret on the 3.5-21x50 Exos during range day.

ILya

This is really good to know, I'd love to try the new DT II turrets

 

[rommel500]

I thought about the Vortex AMG but I am thinking I want a little more FOV down low? 6x on the bottom end seems like too much?

 

[Rerun7]

It really depends on where and what you hunt. I was worried about the same thing but I found that 6x was fine for 90% of situations because I primarily deer hunt (so no fast moving targets) and use it in spots where 50 yards is about the min distance I have to worry about.

When coyote hunting I take a different rifle because FOV and lower mag becomes essential when those little suckers pop out 30 yards from you.

 

[Proxemus]

Check out bushnell LRTS-i 4.5x18x44. Amazing hunting scope great glass for a good value. Im a schmidt and bender fan but for hunting id go with the bushnell all day long.

 

[rommel500]

I own a XRS that I do like but it doesn't excite me on its glass quality. It's not bad but it doesn't pop like what I've seen from S&B, Premier, etc.

The other one I forgot to add and I have no experience with them is the Nightforce NX8 in the 2.5 - 20? What's the verdict on those?

 

[Glassaholic]

The other one I forgot to add and I have no experience with them is the Nightforce NX8 in the 2.5 - 20? What's the verdict on those?

The Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 is impressive with its center resolution but the edge to edge distortion is quite profound and may bother some. I found the turrets to be mushy but I liked the Mil-C reticle and illumination. The finicky DOF/parallax and eyebox is what turned me away the most with this particular design.

 

[CSTactical]

The Nightforce NX8 2.5-20 is impressive with its center resolution but the edge to edge distortion is quite profound and may bother some. I found the turrets to be mushy but I liked the Mil-C reticle and illumination. The finicky DOF/parallax and eyebox is what turned me away the most with this particular design.

We had a 2.5-20x50 NX8 Mil-C for a short time, and our current batch of NX8's have better turrets and also have improved clarity than our previous test sample We have some of the Nightforce Optics NX8 2.5-20x50mm F1 Mil-C C623 and MOAR C622 ($1,950.00) is in stock! Call 916-670-1103 or order below: https://www.cstactical.com/nx8

 

[msstate56]

Not on your list- but look at the Leupold Mk5 3.6-18. I run the illuminated TMR reticle on my hunting rifles. I’ve got a lightweight 300 win mag in a XLR magnesium Element 3.0 that I’ve used to take elk and deer. I find that the Mk5 has excellent low light performance. It is only 26 oz, and short. I really like the locking elevation and capped windage turrets. I’ve had a non-locking turret move on me during a hunt. I’ll never hunt without locking/capped turrets again. The illuminated TMR is thicker than the standard TMR, and has a floating center dot. On low power it is perfectly useable as it looks like a standard duplex.

 

[Glassaholic]

We had a 2.5-20x50 NX8 Mil-C for a short time, and our current batch of NX8's have better turrets and also have improved clarity than our previous test sample We have some of the Nightforce Optics NX8 2.5-20x50mm F1 Mil-C C623 and MOAR C622 ($1,950.00) is in stock! Call 916-670-1103 or order below: https://www.cstactical.com/nx8

Can you send it to me so I can compare to the first one If it is true that they have improved turrets and glass I would be frustrated with their QC, similar situation with Burris and the XTR III, had to send my first one back and the replacement is outstanding.

 

[CSTactical]

Can you send it to me so I can compare to the first one If it is true that they have improved turrets and glass I would be frustrated with their QC, similar situation with Burris and the XTR III, had to send my first one back and the replacement is outstanding.

We had an XTRIII for awhile, I'd like to see another sample or two before making final judgement.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I own most of the scopes you asked about, except the Kahles K318i. All absolutely top tier alpha glass.

I would say, it will all come down to weight, reticle, and features.

I own three TT315M. Tangent Theta is lightest. But "only" has the Gen 2XR. Glass is ridiculous. 10 out of 10. Only has 12 MIL of usable elevation, but I can get out to 1500 with my 6CM & 105 Hyb with it. Lowest top end mag, but 15x is plenty for all but 1200 yard prairie dogs. 30mm rings are made by everyone. Easy mounting. Most expensive of the bunch though. $3770.

I own two ZCO 420. Heaviest of the bunch. Way worth the added weight though. Great reticles in the MPCT1 & MPCT2. Glass is 9.99 out of 10. Better turrets than TT315M, more elevation than you will ever need. FOV is crazy for the magnification. 36mm tube size is limited on mounting options, but there are a couple great ones available. I like the ARC M10s for mine. Locking turrets, and 20X top end. 2nd most expensive @ $3500

I own one S&B PMII 3-20x50US. Short, but the 5-20x50US is even shorter and lighter, don't discount it either. I have one of those too. Glass is 9.5 out of 10. Funny that it is even docked .5, but compared to ZCO & TT, I can see just a touch of difference, but only when looking at very detailed paper targets, can see no difference on game animals in the field. Best mag range of them all. Reticles are OK. If you get a MSR2, they are pretty nice. I have the H2CMR on all 3 of my S&Bs, and it gets very thin @ 3x to 5X on the 3-20s, but I love the .2 MIL holds. The 5-20x50US seems better at 5X than the 3-20US. Locking turrets are great. Mid weight between the others. 34mm rings are everywhere. It is a S&B, what more needs said. You can get new or used all the time, depending on what reticle you are looking for. So you could potentially be saving $1K over the TT or ZCO.

I don't have a Kahles K318i. I was SOOOO close to buying one last month, but bit the bullet and got a second ZCO 420 instead. I used to have a gen 3 K624i and loved it. I have also looked through a K525i, and it was slightly better than the K624i. So I don't think you can go wrong with the K318i. The SKMR3 is a great reticle too. Parallax is on the top, which takes a bit of getting used to. But not a deal breaker. You can get LSW or RSW too, which is cool I guess. But I don't dial windage, so I would rather have parallax on the left. Priced slightly lower than ZCO or TT, but they do not come up used very often.

For a true lightweight hunting scope, I would go TT315M (or H if you like).
For best all around scope, I would go ZCO, with S&B 3-20US a VERY close second. Plus, the S&B is slightly lighter.
With no experience with the K318i, I can't put it in it's place.

 

[rommel500]

I'm kind of surprised but I went with the ZCO 4-20. I thought for sure I was going to end up with S&B.

Just for fun I also ordered a TT 5-25 for another rifle.

Thanks Richard @ CS Tactical!

 

[CSTactical]

I'm kind of surprised but I went with the ZCO 4-20. I thought for sure I was going to end up with S&B.

Just for fun I also ordered a TT 5-25 for another rifle.

Thanks Richard @ CS Tactical!

You're welcome, you'll be very pleased with both items

 

[Glassaholic]

I'm kind of surprised but I went with the ZCO 4-20. I thought for sure I was going to end up with S&B.

Just for fun I also ordered a TT 5-25 for another rifle.

Thanks Richard @ CS Tactical!

Yes, that tends to happen when you talk to Richard

Please let us know what you think when you get the scopes.

 

[CSTactical]

Yes, that tends to happen when you talk to Richard

Please let us know what you think when you get the scopes.

 

[KnightCar]

I use and prefer ffp scopes, i started out with sfp scope though but after I got to try out an FFP scope a few years ago it began a long search for the benefits and drawbacks and the different options that were out there. Thankfully, for me at least, there are a lot more FFP scopes on the market now than ever.