Rifle Scopes FFP why ?

[Muskett]

I've used FFP scopes in the past and never liked them. I use a laser rangefinder, and never will need to be tactical again and even when I was never used the rangefinding facility.

So, other than for range finding, why would anyone want one? Anyone like them/prefer them?

 

[bth87]

Re: FFP why ?

They are nice if you want o be able to use your reticle for holds if, like me you dont dial wind.

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: FFP why ?

its nice not having to worry about what power you are on for holdovers..i find that to be a much bigger benefit than rangefinding imo.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: FFP why ?

Ranging is only one reason to use them...

The reticles have value, every bit the value a turret has, but only on one power with a SFP scope... with a FFP scope you can use that value to engage targets without having to come off the rifle to engage the turrets.

For example, wind holds, I use the reticle not the turrets, winds change to often to try and dial the change, using the reticle allows you to be dynamic in those holds.

Moving targets, I use the reticle to engage movers, which depending on direction of both the mover and the wind may require a different hold for different directions. The reticle must be valid and with some scopes, like a 20X the FOV is too narrow to use, so you want to dial down. Having the ability to have valid holds at lower power is important.

Night vision, or lower light situations, less magnification make it easier to see in such conditions, so again, valid holds.

You can use this for both windage and elevation, having a FFP scope ensure your holds are valid.

Ranging is the last thing I do with a reticle. In fact ranging is easier on a higher power. So it's not as important. However holds are...

 

[Muskett]

Re: FFP why ?

For rimfire I use only a few holdovers and judge those off the target not the reticule.

On my individual weapon system, 5.56 or 7.62, I used points of aim for fast shots and often adjusted to fall of shot; basically walked them in. Pretty fast and accurate enough. For the majority of the time I had fixed mag either 3.8?? or 10x.

Tiny targets at medium range or small targets at long range I have always clicked and liked as small a crass-hair as possible especially with higher mags. For medium range, under, 300m, either click or holdover work; for me beyond then clicks all the way.

 

[Remoah]

Re: FFP why ?

As lowlight said, the ability to do your holdovers without having to change to a certain power or engage turrets, or the ability to range targets without having to loose sight picture.

I can see why some people wouldnt like it however, but i think the benefits of FFP far outweigh the negatives.

 

[Muskett]

Re: FFP why ?

I can see some benefits for hold over as I would with a fixed mag scope. Even the heavier looking cross-hair at higher mag I could live with but only so long as the mag didn't go over lets say y10x .... anything over and that growing cross-hair really bugs me. For a lot of normal ranges then, combined with flat flying bullets, I can see where everyone is coming from.

What really finished me with FFP was the smaller targets I now go for and the very high mag I can utilize. The reason for SFP and clicking. However, looking at my armory I do have still quite a few fixed mag or tapped up to one setting scopes; if I'm expecting moving targets then it will one of these.

Its the very high mag FFP scopes I can't find a use for and there does seem plenty offered.

 

[Yasherka]

Re: FFP why ?

I like the ability to do my corrections off the reticle at any magnification. Shot went 1.2 mils low? Dial up 12 clicks. You may not want or need max magnification at "x" distance.

With my PH 5-25, I rarely go over about 15-17x at 600 yards (the longest distance at which I can shoot locally). However, as others here have pointed out, the mil values are still accurate at those settings.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: FFP why ?

If you're shooting KD/square range, then a FFP doesn't seem like a benefit and actually a liability (reticle thickness)(How many F-Class shooters run a FFP?).

However for UKD or timed multi distance stages, the FFP becomes a great asset, being able to holdover and hold for wind on the fly (with no worries about magnification).

 

[Aries64]

Re: FFP why ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're shooting KD/square range, then a FFP doesn't seem like a benefit and actually a liability (reticle thickness)(How many F-Class shooters run a FFP?).</div></div>
A FFP is useful on KD/square ranges as well as otherwise because the measurements are accurate at any magnification. Do you always dial for wind? I don't, because the wind can shift and/or increase or decease in a second's time.

And while most FFP reticles don't excel at shooting small targets some work <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> well. I have a Gen 2 XR reticle-equipped PMII 5-25X mounted on my Tac Ops X-Ray 51 (.308) and the Gen 2 XR's fine lines (.075") work great dialed all the way up to 25X.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However for UKD or timed multi distance stages, the FFP becomes a great asset, being able to holdover and hold for wind on the fly (with no worries about magnification). </div></div>
Like I said, a FFP is useful on KD/square ranges as well.


Keith

 

[head2h2o]

Re: FFP why ?

I like shooting at the lower end of the power range most of the time. I find it makes me focus more on my technique. Having FFP allows for me not to worry about the size of my reticle relative to the magnification. I can shoot at anywhere in the magnification range and still use the reticle for holds. I typically dial elevation and hold windage. All of this said, SFP does have a role, in fact most of my scopes are SFP. It just depends on the style of shooting that you are doing IMO

 

[Muskett]

Re: FFP why ?

Many thanks all for the input; and a Happy New Year to you all.

 

[radmcg]

Re: FFP why ?

Is there any truth to the fact that SFP scopes have a greater POI change through out their magnification range than FFP scope do? I understand quality is definitely a factor but say talking about a NF compared to a comparable quality FFP scope.
Rad

 

[Lindy]

Re: FFP why ?

A good scope, whether FFP or SFP - and Nightforce makes them - will not change POI with magnification.

If you buy cheap scopes, though, you may see that. When you buy a cheap scope, you get...a cheap scope.

 

[radmcg]

Re: FFP why ?

Thanks Lindy.

 

[jackh]

Re: FFP why ?

with ffp you can power your scope to whatever gives you the best sight picture. you can use a lrf or the reticle to range the target, but your reticle is accurate for holds no matter what power its on. with sfp, you would have to go to whatever power the reticle is accurate on if you wanted to hold rather than dial.

i have heard of ppl taking the time to map out what other power the reticle is accurate on in a sfp scope. with a 20x scope, i think its usually around 10x. it might be like 10.3x though, in which case the guy marks lines on the eyepiece and power ring so he can line them up to get to the right power.

 

[gugubica]

Re: FFP why ?

As far as I am concerned, the advantages and disadvantages of a FFP are theoretical bullshit.

I have yet to run into a situation where I wished I had a SFP scope, it really is a non issue.

If the target is so small that the reticle covers it at a really long range, you are not going to hit the fucker anyway.

 

[Muskett]

Re: FFP why ?

Well that doesn't leave much to debate.
Majority of my shooting has been done with fixed mag scopes and most with low power. They were good enough to reach out as far as my equipment and youthful eyes could. I just wanted to get out of this thread a little more just in case I was missing something.

However, times have changed for me. I sold a S&B the other year because it was FFP and couldn't get on with it. I've also upgraded my rifles and have SFP Zeiss Victories; love them. I now shoot smaller targets like fox (6 inch kill area) and magpies (2-3 inch). Its what works for me.

 

[Rob01]

Re: FFP why ?

You should have no problems shooting those with FFP scopes. We shoot at 5" dots at 1000 yards with FFP optics and don't have a problem getting a good sight picture.

I second what Gug said.

 

[Muskett]

Re: FFP why ?

I'll be back out this year on 1000m ranges after a long break (several years). I've missed the fact that rifles only get interesting over 300m. I'll definitely check out what others are using. I know SFP Leupolds, NF, S&B and Zeiss are popular with the gravel bellies but I will search out some FFP too.

The fast multi range advantage of FFP is a strong argument no doubt about it. Though with all the time in the world I am happy with my SFP.

Tell me if I'm wrong but it used to be the case that FFP scopes could be made with less moving parts over SFP. Is this true? Or is there just no real difference any more will parallax and all the other moving parts we have in scopes now? Call me old fashioned but I am still a strong advocate of fixed mag scopes and for anything more complicated spend as much as you can for the top most brands.