Finally shot my first 1000 yard group.

[Srgt. Hulka]

After getting qualified for the 1000 yard range a few weeks back, I finally made it out there.
I've been working up a load for my JHR for a while now, and have been very pleased with the results so far.
Two weeks ago, I took my first shot on the the 500 yard range. (The 1000 yard range was closed that day.) After checking my velocity, I entered the data into my ballistics calculator, set my scope and made my shot on a 4" diamond.

To say the least, I almost fell off the bench. I couldn't believe it.
I thought it must be a fluke, but I put 10 more on the head of a IPSC target also at 1000 yards.
So that was a darn good day for me.

The next weekend, last Sunday, I finally made it to the 1000 yard range. I just skipped over the 6, 7, 8, and 900 yard ranges and went for it all, jsut to see how how I do.
I checked my velocity, entered it into the ballistics calculator and took my shot. It hit about 5' low. I stopped, checked all my data, and everything looked correct. Took two more shots to get on target. I ended up 1.7 mils higher than my BC said. I haven't figured out why yet.
Drove down and painted the target, came back and shot my first 5-shot group at 1000 yards. There was a little wind, maybe 5 mph, left to right.

Again, I was very pleased with my rifle and my reloads.
I forgot to bring anything to measure my groups with, and all I had in the truck was this Ice Breakers cup. It measures 2 1/2" in diameter.
When I got home, I scaled it off the cup, and got a measurement of just over 5", or just under .5 MOA. Now, I am really happy with my rifle and my ammo.

Now I need to find out why the BC was so far off, when it was dead nuts on at 500 yards just a week earlier.

I know I still have a long way to go, and a LOT to learn, but I feel I have broken a barrier that for so long seemed so hard for me to achieve.
I want to thank everybody here at Snipershide that have helped me, directly or indirectly, with load development, and everything else, to get to this point.

Now...I get to start figuring out the wind.

Thanks again,
SH

 

[morganlamprecht]

cant see the group but sounds like good work

being on at 500 and off 1.7 mils at 1k sounds like compounding issues unless using the wrong BC for an uncommon bullet, as long as your zero hasnt shifted since the prior 500 yd shots

could be some slight tracking error and/or environmental error in there

bullet type, velocity, and DA would help narrow it down quick

 

[RegionRat]

Agree, check the pressure as well as the temp in that ballistic calculation. 1.7 Mil off means something else is wrong, but that assumption is based on the concept you had good correlation earlier. You will probably want to walk out and paint all the gongs to run a quick check at several distances below 1k to see if those are tracking. If you have it all correct, you should be able to run all the other distances in terms of the vertical. Wind takes some experience and that will take many more sessions.

Also, I can't see that second photo either....

 

[acudaowner]

congrats ,

 

[Steel head]

Congrats!

I was pretty jazzed when I shot to 1000 the first time.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Thanks guys.

cant see the group but sounds like good work

being on at 500 and off 1.7 mils at 1k sounds like compounding issues unless using the wrong BC for an uncommon bullet, as long as your zero hasnt shifted since the prior 500 yd shots

could be some slight tracking error and/or environmental error in there

bullet type, velocity, and DA would help narrow it down quick

Fixed the picture...I think. Never sure on my phone.

I’ve looked at the BC, and haven’t found it. All the data was the same, except 2 FPS on velocity, and the weather. I’m using Ballistics AE, and it imports the weather, so I’m not sure what else to check.

Here is a screenshot of all my settings:

I’m going to tinker with it next time at the range. Like Regionrat said, I’ll walk it out a 100 yards at a time.

 

[Snuby642]

Well you had spin drift and coriolis turned off, at 1000yd hum?

Also looks like a g1 bc is listed but set to use g7 ? Hum?

Check those I may be reading it wrong.

 

[Campguy308]

^^^What he said, except for coriolis. I leave that off

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Well you had spin drift and coriolis turned off, at 1000yd hum?

Also looks like a g1 bc is listed but set to use g7 ? Hum?

Check those I may be reading it wrong.

Yep, that was it. Changed it from the G7 to the G1, and it put it about 0.1 mil off.
I’m going to have to play with that, because I had G7 chosen at 500 yards.
Lots to learn still.
Thanks Snuby.

 

[Steel head]

Well you had spin drift and coriolis turned off, at 1000yd hum?

Also looks like a g1 bc is listed but set to use g7 ? Hum?

Check those I may be reading it wrong.

This.

Also you may want to use MRAD instead of .1mrad

I do use spin drift but not Coriolis.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Nice shoot'n Tex!

Maybe the powder in your rounds heated up causing an increase in pressure thus an increase in velocity. Was it really hot out? And I understand that your ballistics calculator would adjust for current conditions but it won't account for ammo that has "hot" powder due to heat sink from the brass. Especially if it's been in direct sunlight.

Just a thought. ?

 

[wapiti16b]

Very nice!, who would have thought a Big Toe could do all that!

 

[morganlamprecht]

Yup, looks good...and like g1/g7 mix up was the cause of error...should be good to go now

With it corrected, shoot at 500 and adjust velocity until it matches real dope, then shoot back to 1k and adjust BC til it matches

Small BC changes at 500 won’t matter much but they’ll show at 1k

646 g1 seems pretty high for anything 140 gain (guessing 6.5) so it’ll prolly have to come down some...most 140 6.5s avg out in the 610-620 range

 

[ShtrRdy]

That sounds awesome!

Did you run a tall target test to confirm the scopes tracking scaling?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

That drag coefficient would cause it (although I'd actually expect it to cause more of an issue). You also need to keep in mind that conditions will change hourly/daily, and can have significant impact on your come-ups at 1,000; much more so than say the 500 yards you've been shooting.

As a recent example, I shot a 1,000 yard F-Class match last week where I had a 1.5 MOA elevation difference between my first and third relay (from ~8:30AM to ~11:30AM). All due to rising temps, changes in air density, and light conditions.

Unless you're shooting at big (2 MOA) plates, you're probably not going to consistently first round hit a half MOA or even MOA target daily. Even the guys who are in contention for state and national titles drop 8s and 9s on their first couple of sighters.

Kestrels help though.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Nice shoot'n Tex!

Maybe the powder in your rounds heated up causing an increase in pressure thus an increase in velocity. Was it really hot out? And I understand that your ballistics calculator would adjust for current conditions but it won't account for ammo that has "hot" powder due to heat sink from the brass. Especially if it's been in direct sunlight.

Just a thought. ?

Thanks JD.
I thought of that, but conditions at 500 were real similar to the 1000. About 5-6 degrees warmer and about 15% more humidity at 1000. Not 5’ worth of difference.
Plus, we just cot a new cover over our 1000 yard line. It’s really nice. Otherwise, it’d just be too hot in the direct sun. I’d probably become unstable before the powder would.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Very nice!, who would have thought a Big Toe could do all that!

I certainly had my doubts.

Yup, looks good...and like g1/g7 mix up was the cause of error...should be good to go now

With it corrected, shoot at 500 and adjust velocity until it matches real dope, then shoot back to 1k and adjust BC til it matches

Small BC changes at 500 won’t matter much but they’ll show at 1k

646 g1 seems pretty high for anything 140 gain (guessing 6.5) so it’ll prolly have to come down some...most 140 6.5s avg out in the 610-620 range

The .646 bc came from the bullet in the library.
Ok...I’m a dumbass. I let the ballistics calculator set the numbers for me, where all I needed to do was pay closer attention to the box that the bullets came in. The bc for a 140gr ELD-M with a G1 BC is .646. The G7 BC is .326. I plug that number into my calculator, and it’s less than a tenth from my scope setting.

I will play with bc next trip and try to fine tune it, now that I know what to look at and look for.

That sounds awesome!

Did you run a tall target test to confirm the scopes tracking scaling?

I did not, but it sounds like fun. The wind came up after that first group, and gave me a hard time. I’ll try that on one of my next trips though.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

That drag coefficient would cause it (although I'd actually expect it to cause more of an issue). You also need to keep in mind that conditions will change hourly/daily, and can have significant impact on your come-ups at 1,000; much more so than say the 500 yards you've been shooting.

As a recent example, I shot a 1,000 yard F-Class match last week where I had a 1.5 MOA elevation difference between my first and third relay (from ~8:30AM to ~11:30AM). All due to rising temps, changes in air density, and light conditions.

Unless you're shooting at big (2 MOA) plates, you're probably not going to consistently first round hit a half MOA or even MOA target daily. Even the guys who are in contention for state and national titles drop 8s and 9s on their first couple of sighters.

Kestrels help though.

I’d love to get a Kestrel, but that’s just not in the budget right now. My daughter starts pre-vet animal science at Louisiana Tech University right after Labor Day.

 

[Snuby642]

Hope that's not in NOLA lots of freaks down there.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well you had spin drift and coriolis turned off, at 1000yd hum?

Also looks like a g1 bc is listed but set to use g7 ? Hum?

Check those I may be reading it wrong.

No need for either at 1000. You’re talking .2 or less for each.

Problem would definitely be the .6+ set at g7.

 

[RegionRat]

Glad that is clearing up. Just curious, what is the LOS Angle that shows 61.9 degrees?

 

[McHaggis]

I’d love to get a Kestrel, but that’s just not in the budget right now. My daughter starts pre-vet animal science at Louisiana Tech University right after Labor Day.

Have you looked into a Weatherflow?
https://weatherflow.com/weather-meter-for-shooting/

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Hope that's not in NOLA lots of freaks down there.

LOL, no kidding. I would NEVER send my one and only daughter down there to that freak show.
La Tech is in Ruston, La. up here in the northern part of the state. It's a great small school. It's where I graduated from. too.

Glad that is clearing up. Just curious, what is the LOS Angle that shows 61.9 degrees?

I haven't looked into it yet, but I think that's the line of sight to the target. You would enter an angle if the target is up or down hill. The 61.9 just happened to be the angle I was holding my phone at the the time I took the screen shot.

Have you looked into a Weatherflow?
https://weatherflow.com/weather-meter-for-shooting/

I haven't looked hard at them yet, but I may in the future. I've seen a couple of them for sale in the PX, and I've considered it, but again, I haven't done any research on them.

 

[DukeGSP]

LOL, no kidding. I would NEVER send my one and only daughter down there to that freak show.
La Tech is in Ruston, La. up here in the northern part of the state. It's a great small school. It's where I graduated from. too.



I haven't looked into it yet, but I think that's the line of sight to the target. You would enter an angle if the target is up or down hill. The 61.9 just happened to be the angle I was holding my phone at the the time I took the screen shot.



I haven't looked hard at them yet, but I may in the future. I've seen a couple of them for sale in the PX, and I've considered it, but again, I haven't done any research on them.

the LOS angle is 0. lol 61.9 must be your local temp because you would nearly be shooting into the sky at that angle lol. if 61.9 is your temp then i'm jealous. good shooting.

 

[morganlamprecht]

The .646 bc came from the bullet in the library.
Ok...I’m a dumbass. I let the ballistics calculator set the numbers for me, where all I needed to do was pay closer attention to the box that the bullets came in. The bc for a 140gr ELD-M with a G1 BC is .646. The G7 BC is .326. I plug that number into my calculator, and it’s less than a tenth from my scope setting.

I will play with bc next trip and try to fine tune it, now that I know what to look at and look for.

yes the 646 is for the highest possible velocity band, not averaged over the entire curve or scaled in the program...BC isnt a set in stone number...link below explains it

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

using the g1 bc in a g7 profile, your dope at 500 should have been off a good .2-.4, but if you hit dead center that means something else is off there and the 646 bc is correcting it as you go out further...something to look into next trip so your curve matches for the entire trajectory

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

yes the 646 is for the highest possible velocity band, not averaged over the entire curve or scaled in the program...BC isnt a set in stone number...link below explains it

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

using the g1 bc in a g7 profile, your dope at 500 should have been off a good .2-.4, but if you hit dead center that means something else is off there and the 646 bc is correcting it as you go out further...something to look into next trip so your curve matches for the entire trajectory

I definitely have some homework and fieldwork to do.
Thank you for the link. I will be reading it in the near future.

 

[Sheldon N]

Glad that is clearing up. Just curious, what is the LOS Angle that shows 61.9 degrees?

In that app the LOS angle shown in blue is a live readout of how the phone is being held. He was holding the phone at a 61.9 degree angle when he took the screenshot. The LOS was set to zero so it didn’t affect his dope.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

In that app the LOS angle shown in blue is a live readout of how the phone is being held. He was holding the phone at a 61.9 degree angle when he took the screenshot. The LOS was set to zero so it didn’t affect his dope.

This is correct.

 

[Steel head]

I’d love to get a Kestrel, but that’s just not in the budget right now. My daughter starts pre-vet animal science at Louisiana Tech University right after Labor Day.

I use a kestrel drop with a phone app.
No complaints and far cheaper than a 5700.

I definitely have some homework and fieldwork to do.
Thank you for the link. I will be reading it in the near future.

Try a G7 BC between .312-.318.
That value always worked well for me and my shooting partners with a few barrels and that bullet out it 1300ish.
Further than that and you’ll have monkey with it to get a good true.