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Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
- Thread starter Gunreaper
- Start date
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal.
The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
What distance were those targets? Looks to me like you should do more development around the neighborhood of the 43 grain load.
What distance were those targets? Looks to me like you should do more development around the neighborhood of the 43 grain load.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
sorry to kinda hi-jack, but i am going to be using that bullet weight and powder myself. i bought a load book for 308s and there are varying amounts listed as max. alot of these amounts are over what is listed as max in the tables. that amount does vary with bullet maker, even for the same weight (168) and style (hpbt). i was going to start down around 38 grains and work up. how do you know when your using too much powder beside blowing up your rifle?
sorry to kinda hi-jack, but i am going to be using that bullet weight and powder myself. i bought a load book for 308s and there are varying amounts listed as max. alot of these amounts are over what is listed as max in the tables. that amount does vary with bullet maker, even for the same weight (168) and style (hpbt). i was going to start down around 38 grains and work up. how do you know when your using too much powder beside blowing up your rifle?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass.
My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass. </div></div>
Military and commercial 308 brass are different in case volume. Military is much heavier, don't load it to commercial brass max or you'll have pressure problems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass. </div></div>
Military and commercial 308 brass are different in case volume. Military is much heavier, don't load it to commercial brass max or you'll have pressure problems.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harry Callahan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass. </div></div>
Military and commercial 308 brass are different in case volume. Military is much heavier, don't load it to commercial brass max or you'll have pressure problems. </div></div>
the load data book that i have uses info from several bullet and powder makers. there are only a few references to mil brass. most say to start at or below the minimum load and work up, or to reduce loads by 1-2 grains. only hogdon gives actual numbers stating a range of 37g/2388fps to 39g/2508fps for mil brass. i have loads for the 308/168g using 4895 starting from 35g up to 46g as a max using results from different powder and bullet makers. i have both mil and commercial brass so i will have to work up loads for both case types. i guess the only thing to do is work up and check for signs of excess pressure. next step, find out what the signs of excessive pressure are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harry Callahan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My book shows 43.3gn of IMR4895 as max load. Should I keep going up? It is in a gas gun if that matters. It's the DPMS LR-308 with 24" barrel. I had some LC brass and was shooting 2800fps with 42.5gr some I got rid of the LC brass and am using Winchester brass. </div></div>
Military and commercial 308 brass are different in case volume. Military is much heavier, don't load it to commercial brass max or you'll have pressure problems. </div></div>
the load data book that i have uses info from several bullet and powder makers. there are only a few references to mil brass. most say to start at or below the minimum load and work up, or to reduce loads by 1-2 grains. only hogdon gives actual numbers stating a range of 37g/2388fps to 39g/2508fps for mil brass. i have loads for the 308/168g using 4895 starting from 35g up to 46g as a max using results from different powder and bullet makers. i have both mil and commercial brass so i will have to work up loads for both case types. i guess the only thing to do is work up and check for signs of excess pressure. next step, find out what the signs of excessive pressure are.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal. </div></div>
Did that fit in the magazine? How far off of the lands was that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal. </div></div>
Did that fit in the magazine? How far off of the lands was that?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal. </div></div>
Did that fit in the magazine? How far off of the lands was that? </div></div>
In a Savage blind mag it did, and was at the lands in my Savage. 2.845" won't fit in a Remington short action mag though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quackaddict</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Savage I had liked 168 Amax's in Win brass at 43.9 IMR4895, 2.845 oal. </div></div>
Did that fit in the magazine? How far off of the lands was that? </div></div>
In a Savage blind mag it did, and was at the lands in my Savage. 2.845" won't fit in a Remington short action mag though.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Interesting, I measured my savage today and got 2.83 to the lands, did your Amax loads prefer no jump? What exactly were you getting for accuracy? I am getting .5 MOA at 100 and 200 with 43.3 IMR 4895, 168grn Amax, Hornaday Brass, and OAL at 2.800.
Interesting, I measured my savage today and got 2.83 to the lands, did your Amax loads prefer no jump? What exactly were you getting for accuracy? I am getting .5 MOA at 100 and 200 with 43.3 IMR 4895, 168grn Amax, Hornaday Brass, and OAL at 2.800.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Every rifle will be a little different, as far as where the lands are at and what exact powder charge they like.
168 Amax's at an OAL of 2.800 will give you higher pressure with the same load than a longer OAL load. 2.800" OAL with Amax's has a lot of bullet in the case.
I was getting sub-moa accuracy. I don't quote group sizes because its rare that I can hold a .5 moa group consistently with a full custom laser with the right loads. All my rifles have shot .5moa groups at one time or another, but I usually don't shoot that tight, and I get way too bored trying to shoot little groups.
I can usually get a better group when someone says "10 rounds on that dot, you have 60 seconds" than if you give me unlimited time to shoot a 5 shot group.........
Every rifle will be a little different, as far as where the lands are at and what exact powder charge they like.
168 Amax's at an OAL of 2.800 will give you higher pressure with the same load than a longer OAL load. 2.800" OAL with Amax's has a lot of bullet in the case.
I was getting sub-moa accuracy. I don't quote group sizes because its rare that I can hold a .5 moa group consistently with a full custom laser with the right loads. All my rifles have shot .5moa groups at one time or another, but I usually don't shoot that tight, and I get way too bored trying to shoot little groups.
I can usually get a better group when someone says "10 rounds on that dot, you have 60 seconds" than if you give me unlimited time to shoot a 5 shot group.........
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I went to the range again today. About 73 degrees and little windy(15mph), but got got some results.
top left- 42.3gn
Top Right- 42.8gn
Bottom Left- 43gn
Bottom Right- 43.2gn
I like the 42.3 and the 43.2gn. The 43.2 had 4 shots close and 1 through same hole. I think the 43.2 may be a lttle hot. I am taking the past targets in consideration on deciding which load to use. Any ideas?
I went to the range again today. About 73 degrees and little windy(15mph), but got got some results.
top left- 42.3gn
Top Right- 42.8gn
Bottom Left- 43gn
Bottom Right- 43.2gn
I like the 42.3 and the 43.2gn. The 43.2 had 4 shots close and 1 through same hole. I think the 43.2 may be a lttle hot. I am taking the past targets in consideration on deciding which load to use. Any ideas?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Here is a photo of all the brass used to shoot todays targets. I thought the 43.2gn is kinda hot, but maybe not. What you guys think?
Left to Right
42.3gn, 42.8gn, 43gn, 43.2gn.
The one by itself is a factory load brass for comparing.
Here is a photo of all the brass used to shoot todays targets. I thought the 43.2gn is kinda hot, but maybe not. What you guys think?
Left to Right
42.3gn, 42.8gn, 43gn, 43.2gn.
The one by itself is a factory load brass for comparing.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Your primers appear fine, but primer appearance means nothing.
How's the bolt lift in comparison to your factory ammo? Is it easy? Does it get sticky towards the top? Do you need a mallet?
Ooops. Forgot you have an auto... nevermind. I'd look at the extractor marks on the inside of the rim. Compare them to your factory case. Once the round gets sticky, the extractor mark will become more pronounced to the point where the bolt will try to peel the rim away.
Your primers appear fine, but primer appearance means nothing.
How's the bolt lift in comparison to your factory ammo? Is it easy? Does it get sticky towards the top? Do you need a mallet?
Ooops. Forgot you have an auto... nevermind. I'd look at the extractor marks on the inside of the rim. Compare them to your factory case. Once the round gets sticky, the extractor mark will become more pronounced to the point where the bolt will try to peel the rim away.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I just pulled the primers out of the 43.2gn and they are starting to flatten. So I think 43.2 is too hot. Will go with 42.3 or 42.8. The 42.3 in the last few testings have been fairly tight and consistent. In the picture of todays target I shot 6 rounds at the 42.3 target and 3 of them are touching and the other 3 are spaced out equally in the bullseye. The 42.8 groups is not touching but all in bullseye. what do You guys think?
I just pulled the primers out of the 43.2gn and they are starting to flatten. So I think 43.2 is too hot. Will go with 42.3 or 42.8. The 42.3 in the last few testings have been fairly tight and consistent. In the picture of todays target I shot 6 rounds at the 42.3 target and 3 of them are touching and the other 3 are spaced out equally in the bullseye. The 42.8 groups is not touching but all in bullseye. what do You guys think?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Like I said, primer appearance means nothing.
Like I said, primer appearance means nothing.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I see no other signs of pressure, like extractor marks. I do have some ejector swipes on the face of the cases, but it is even on the factory load. So you think I should go with the 43.2 or what?
I see no other signs of pressure, like extractor marks. I do have some ejector swipes on the face of the cases, but it is even on the factory load. So you think I should go with the 43.2 or what?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I always used 42.5grns of IMR 4895 with the 168 weight bullets and found it to give good velocity and accuracy. Gives me about 2655fps.
Also for powder charges for Hodgdon/IMR/Win powders go to www.hodgdon.com and use the reloading data center to get powder charges.
I always used 42.5grns of IMR 4895 with the 168 weight bullets and found it to give good velocity and accuracy. Gives me about 2655fps.
Also for powder charges for Hodgdon/IMR/Win powders go to www.hodgdon.com and use the reloading data center to get powder charges.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I run 168 Noslers at 42.3gr IMR 4895, LC Match brass, 2.800" or so. They run 2680fps (same as FGMM) in my Rock 5R.
I run 168 Noslers at 42.3gr IMR 4895, LC Match brass, 2.800" or so. They run 2680fps (same as FGMM) in my Rock 5R.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I am planning trying to stick with the 43.2. Out of the 5 shots only 1 of them had a flattened primer and it wasn't that bad. I chronoed 42.3 at 2525fps and 42.6 was 2575 and 43 chronoed 2625fps. I will have to try different C.O.L. This last test they were all seated to 2.810 C.O.L.
I really don't wast to go any higher than 43.2. My hornady book shows 43.3gr of IMR4895 as the max load. Let me know what the max imr4895 with 168 bullets is in other books. Speers, Lyman, others
I am planning trying to stick with the 43.2. Out of the 5 shots only 1 of them had a flattened primer and it wasn't that bad. I chronoed 42.3 at 2525fps and 42.6 was 2575 and 43 chronoed 2625fps. I will have to try different C.O.L. This last test they were all seated to 2.810 C.O.L.
I really don't wast to go any higher than 43.2. My hornady book shows 43.3gr of IMR4895 as the max load. Let me know what the max imr4895 with 168 bullets is in other books. Speers, Lyman, others
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
Hornady says 44 grains of Varget is max for the 168 Amax. Most people run 45 grains in fireformed brass. I think you should up the charge.
Hornady says 44 grains of Varget is max for the 168 Amax. Most people run 45 grains in fireformed brass. I think you should up the charge.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
The Hodgdon site I listed above lists the 168grn bullet and IMR 4895 at 41grns as the starting load and 45.4grns as the max and it's listed as a compressed load. That said you have to watch your set up for pressure and be safe.
The Hodgdon site I listed above lists the 168grn bullet and IMR 4895 at 41grns as the starting load and 45.4grns as the max and it's listed as a compressed load. That said you have to watch your set up for pressure and be safe.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am planning trying to stick with the 43.2. Out of the 5 shots only 1 of them had a flattened primer and it wasn't that bad. I chronoed 42.3 at 2525fps and 42.6 was 2575 and 43 chronoed 2625fps. I will have to try different C.O.L. This last test they were all seated to 2.810 C.O.L.
I really don't wast to go any higher than 43.2. My hornady book shows 43.3gr of IMR4895 as the max load. Let me know what the max imr4895 with 168 bullets is in other books. Speers, Lyman, others </div></div>
Hornady's loads tend to be a little more conservative than Hodgdons but that does not mean you should extrapolate from Hodgdon's published Varget load to assume you can bump the IMR 4895 load upward over the Max charge you see in the Hornady manual. Your request for additional published loads can be resolved online by going to the respective websites of the manufacturers you named. For general load info, it's tough to beat Lyman and Lee for the voluminous load data they provide.
Also, flattend primers tell you nothing unequivocal about the pressure of your powder charge. Primers get flattened by a variety of causes such as short head spacing, lube left on cases, relatively soft primer cups, etc.
Your caution is salutory.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunreaper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am planning trying to stick with the 43.2. Out of the 5 shots only 1 of them had a flattened primer and it wasn't that bad. I chronoed 42.3 at 2525fps and 42.6 was 2575 and 43 chronoed 2625fps. I will have to try different C.O.L. This last test they were all seated to 2.810 C.O.L.
I really don't wast to go any higher than 43.2. My hornady book shows 43.3gr of IMR4895 as the max load. Let me know what the max imr4895 with 168 bullets is in other books. Speers, Lyman, others </div></div>
Hornady's loads tend to be a little more conservative than Hodgdons but that does not mean you should extrapolate from Hodgdon's published Varget load to assume you can bump the IMR 4895 load upward over the Max charge you see in the Hornady manual. Your request for additional published loads can be resolved online by going to the respective websites of the manufacturers you named. For general load info, it's tough to beat Lyman and Lee for the voluminous load data they provide.
Also, flattend primers tell you nothing unequivocal about the pressure of your powder charge. Primers get flattened by a variety of causes such as short head spacing, lube left on cases, relatively soft primer cups, etc.
Your caution is salutory.
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
What are you going to test? The 43.2 grain load again?
What are you going to test? The 43.2 grain load again?
Re: Finding .308 load with 168 a-max and IMR 4895 powd
I am going to try 42.3/42.6/42.8/43/43.2
42.3 has beean real consistent, but velocity is was a little lower than looking for. Last trip 43.2 was best. I was a little concerned with the primers on 1 or 2 of the 43.2 were flat on the edge. Want to recheck them. 43gn was tight one trip and the next it was spread out more. Don't know eather to test at 200 yards or 100.
I am going to try 42.3/42.6/42.8/43/43.2
42.3 has beean real consistent, but velocity is was a little lower than looking for. Last trip 43.2 was best. I was a little concerned with the primers on 1 or 2 of the 43.2 were flat on the edge. Want to recheck them. 43gn was tight one trip and the next it was spread out more. Don't know eather to test at 200 yards or 100.
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