Finland M39 Mosins

[awpk03s]

Anybody else here with one of these rifles? Like many others I have a small collection of Mosins acquired over the years when they were dirt cheap. Shooting is a blast, but accuracy due to the bores and crap trigger is usually only good for just that, blasting.

Well, low and behold, I came across this beautiful 1942 Sako M39 in a gun shop probably 7 years ago. It followed me home for $250. The trigger is good! Really good by comparison. The Finns do something there different for sure. I have shot surplus corrosive ammo with it and always been impressed - I’ve got some PPU 182gr brass case stuff to try someday as well and really see it’s potential. Just a neat rifle, and the history behind them is very interesting too. Not to mention - the wood.... that tiger stripe birch is amazing.... (to me).

 

[Nonad terry]

I had 2 one was chinease it shot good sokd it 2nd was russian barrell shot out sold it ; hope u have good luck with yours

 

[awpk03s]

I had 2 one was chinease it shot good sokd it 2nd was russian barrell shot out sold it ; hope u have good luck with yours

The Finnish rifles are actually very different than the original Russian and the copied Chinese carbine T53 designs. Finland captured Russian 91/30 Mosin Nagant rifles from the battlefield from dead Russians. They ground off the Russian crest, and basically only kept the action and bolt. They manufactured new barrels, had a new trigger sear design, new sights, and new stock furniture. They’re much more rare and hard to come by.

 

[ZG47A]

Also new barrels, in some cases and ... a long story of Civil Guard competition focus vs Army practicality. NB If you ever wondered why the SIG P210 has a single column magazine, it is because the first customer was a civilian controlled national shooting association (that in theory should have supported practical military considerations) in Denmark; which rejected the double column magazine prototype. When the Danish Army adopted the SIG P210 they bought the same version as the shooting association. I got the SIG P210 info via Forgotten Weapons.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Also new barrels, in some cases and ... a long story of Civil Guard competition focus vs Army practicality. NB If you ever wondered why the SIG P210 has a single column magazine, it is because the first customer was a civilian controlled national shooting association (that in theory should have supported practical military considerations) in Denmark; which rejected the double column magazine prototype. When the Danish Army adopted the SIG P210 they bought the same version as the shooting association. I got the SIG P210 info via Forgotten Weapons.

And what a dream of a pistol it would be!


Modern mag capacity, with the accuracy of a P210. What a pistol!

 

[delinquent pleb]

I hav one of these. I’m actually looking for advice on a load using 174gn pils.

 

[kujuak]

I hav one of these. I’m actually looking for advice on a load using 174gn pils.

 

[kujuak]

Go to Gunboards Forum, Mosin Forum and o search on loads, lots of good load info.

 

[Flint62a1]

I have one also, it is a great shooter! and a great looking rifle. I use graf brass mainly because I was handed 200 pieces of it. 45 grains of IMR 4895
150 gr .311 Sierra spitzer bullet with federal 210 primers. this load shoots lights out in my rifle. I have not tried the 174's in this rifle because this load worked so well, I save the 174's for my russian sniper.
That is a beautiful piece of wood on your rifle.

 

[Sooter76]

I’ve got a couple... Great rifles. I load D166 for mine and they shoot very, very well.

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

That stock is magnificent! True work of art... Have you done anything to maintain/restore it or did it come that way?

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Just the stock alone is beautiful.
What a very nice piece.
Congratulations.
I know a guy with a Finnish refurbed barrel on his.
Shoots really well.

 

[nagantguy]

The Finnish rifles are actually very different than the original Russian and the copied Chinese carbine T53 designs. Finland captured Russian 91/30 Mosin Nagant rifles from the battlefield from dead Russians. They ground off the Russian crest, and basically only kept the action and bolt. They manufactured new barrels, had a new trigger sear design, new sights, and new stock furniture. They’re much more rare and hard to come by.

The Chinese T 53 in my humble opinion is the sleeper hit of the Nagant surplus world; maybe not a s crisp and refined as the very pricey Finns but everyone I’ve ever had has been a shooter- can’t 100% back up the claim but I’ve often heard they had a very very short service life hence the number on the market with decent stocks and very good bores. I actually have one that I believe to be some type of “factory model “ as the steel was in the white -and the stock was still naked and needing final contouring and finish . I powder coated the mental OD green and finished the stock and dressed it in about 50 coats of true oil, it’s a shooter and spent some time as my walking around rifle. Now it sits in great grandpas gun cabinet with a few other “special” pieces.

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

The Chinese T 53 in my humble opinion is the sleeper hit of the Nagant surplus world; maybe not a s crisp and refined as the very pricey Finns but everyone I’ve ever had has been a shooter- can’t 100% back up the claim but I’ve often heard they had a very very short service life hence the number on the market with decent stocks and very good bores. I actually have one that I believe to be some type of “factory model “ as the steel was in the white -and the stock was still naked and needing final contouring and finish . I powder coated the mental OD green and finished the stock and dressed it in about 50 coats of true oil, it’s a shooter and spent some time as my walking around rifle. Now it sits in great grandpas gun cabinet with a few other “special” pieces.

Got any pics? Sounds like a beaut!

 

[Wannashootit]

I hav one of these. I’m actually looking for advice on a load using 174gn pils.

My universal "go to" with the 174 SMK is over 43.5 of Varget.

 

[awpk03s]

That stock is magnificent! True work of art... Have you done anything to maintain/restore it or did it come that way?

It came that way. Really beautiful.

 

[awpk03s]

The Chinese T 53 in my humble opinion is the sleeper hit of the Nagant surplus world; maybe not a s crisp and refined as the very pricey Finns but everyone I’ve ever had has been a shooter- can’t 100% back up the claim but I’ve often heard they had a very very short service life hence the number on the market with decent stocks and very good bores. I actually have one that I believe to be some type of “factory model “ as the steel was in the white -and the stock was still naked and needing final contouring and finish . I powder coated the mental OD green and finished the stock and dressed it in about 50 coats of true oil, it’s a shooter and spent some time as my walking around rifle. Now it sits in great grandpas gun cabinet with a few other “special” pieces.

I like the T53’s too man. If you get one that doesn’t have a sewer pipe for a barrel, they are really neat and good shooting compact rifles. I like mine.

 

[nagantguy]

I like the T53’s too man. If you get one that doesn’t have a sewer pipe for a barrel, they are really neat and good shooting compact rifles. I like mine.

Yep sure seems there are 2 categories of the 53 very nice and shit stick, hardly ever see a gently used one- raw beat up stock , more of a paint job than a finish and a bore that looks like a Roided out bung hole . Or I’ve seen several that are for sure “used” but don’t look have done a day in the hands of conscripts doing border duty in Mongolia and I’ve seen a few of those like mine unfinished never issued.

 

[Miller Tyme]

M39's, as well as most Finnish made Mosin's are excellent shooters, But the Czech's where no slouches when it came to the Mosin

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

M39's, as well as most Finnish made Mosin's are excellent shooters, But the Czech's where no slouches when it came to the Mosin

I can't decide if I love those or hate them... Are the scopes Czech as well?

 

[ZG47A]

I can't decide if I love those or hate them... Are the scopes Czech as well?

YES.

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

YES.

I guess post-WW2?

 

[Miller Tyme]

YES.

Yes and no, the VZ54 scope is a Czech design & manufacture, but the PSO-1 on the VZ54/91 is Russian design and manufacture

 

[ZG47A]

Fair enough. Past midnight here and I couldn’t be bothered looking too closely OR checking my CZUB publication. The process of producing those rifles was apparently a bit of a nightmare, due to gross discrepancies in Mosin receiver specs. They would have been far happier making the ZG 51 sniper rifle which was chambered for the 8x64 Brenneke cartridge, loaded with the Czech version of the German 198gr sS bullet. The same designer, Otokar Galas, was responsible for both rifles.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

Yes I have a small collection of M39's and other Mosin Variants out of findland. Excellent and uncommon rifles!

 

[crackerbrown]

YES.

Very nice!!!

 

[Buster0083]

I got this Sako a couple of days ago and with a bit of luck will get out down the range for testing this weekend. I've wanted one for a long while, so pretty rapt to finally tick one off the list.

 

[crackerbrown]

I got this Sako a couple of days ago and with a bit of luck will get out down the range for testing this weekend. I've wanted one for a long while, so pretty rapt to finally tick one off the list.

View attachment 7468667

Nice one!

 

[crackerbrown]

Here’s one of mine. Unissued “B” barrel.

 

[delinquent pleb]

While everyone is talking M39s, has anyone ever tried shooting .308 projectiles out of them? I have heard some will shoot .308 pils with a degree of success. Has anyone every tried this?

cheers

 

[crackerbrown]

Smith-Sights.com has a sale on a shim kit, trigger kit, and a pillar kit right now.

 

[ZG47A]

While everyone is talking M39s, has anyone ever tried shooting .308 projectiles out of them? I have heard some will shoot .308 pils with a degree of success. Has anyone every tried this?

cheers

It is my understanding that some of those rifles were fitted with barrels having a groove diameter of .308” or thereabouts (those barrels being purchased from SIG). I suggest that you check the standard reference works, i.e. buy a book.

 

[tomme boy]

The Finnish rifles are actually very different than the original Russian and the copied Chinese carbine T53 designs. Finland captured Russian 91/30 Mosin Nagant rifles from the battlefield from dead Russians. They ground off the Russian crest, and basically only kept the action and bolt. They manufactured new barrels, had a new trigger sear design, new sights, and new stock furniture. They’re much more rare and hard to come by.

Wrong and right. All of the hex receivers were bought from Russia. SOME of the 91/30 rifles were captured in the winter war. SOME of them met the accuracy standard of the Finns and were re-stocked. That was it. They have what they call the pot bellied stock and is a 2 piece like the M39.

And If I remember right it was the M27 that had the 0.308"x0.301" barrels.

 

[delinquent pleb]

Wrong and right. All of the hex receivers were bought from Russia. SOME of the 91/30 rifles were captured in the winter war. SOME of them met the accuracy standard of the Finns and were re-stocked. That was it. They have what they call the pot bellied stock and is a 2 piece like the M39.

And If I remember right it was the M27 that had the 0.308"x0.301" barrels.

With regards to the M27, that sounds about right because a friend Of mine has recently acquired an M27, after bore slugging it was proven conclusively to be .308

Additionally, I have tested my M39 with .308 projectiles and shoots quite well with Hornady 178gn ELD-Ms

 

[J0h1F]

It is my understanding that some of those rifles were fitted with barrels having a groove diameter of .308” or thereabouts (those barrels being purchased from SIG). I suggest that you check the standard reference works, i.e. buy a book.

The Civil Guard M28 and M28-30 had a .3082 (7.83 mm) barrel according to the specifications, and M24, M27 and Finnish barrel M91 and M91-30 a .3095 (7.85 mm), while the M39 was fitted with a .310 (7.87 mm) barrel.

Indeed the earliest M28 barrels were bought from SIG, and Sako and Tikkakoski continued with the same measurements.

 

[skl1]

Hey, what a great find! I paid way more for my M39 and it has way worse wood. But it's accurate. It'll shoot 1.25" consistently with PriviPartisan. And I'm sure it'll do better/is being held back by the shooter and iron sights. I haven't reloaded for it yet, but I don't shoot the corrosive surplus ammo I have for other Mosins in it just because I'm so impressed with it.

 

[skl1]

Also, forgot to mention, but part of the reason these are so accurate is the Finnish barrels they put on (VKT, Tikka, Sako) and part is that they used metal shims to bed the rifle. So don't take one apart and lose the shims!

 

[E-Tool]

OP that wood stock is beautiful.

 

[Calfed]

Anybody else here with one of these rifles?

I do have to admit to a certain weakness for Finnish rifles...

 

[AManWearingAHat]

Yes I have three or four...

 

[Calfed]

That stock is magnificent! True work of art... Have you done anything to maintain/restore it or did it come that way?

Hear! Hear!

 

[Hetzer]

I was up to four or five when I decided to sell them off because I never shot them. I only kept the one with the best trigger.
It happens to be the ugliest one too. So there's the ugly one and a M28/76.

I do really like them however. Nice collection Calfed!

 

[Calfed]

I was up to four or five when I decided to sell them off because I never shot them. I only kept the one with the best trigger.
It happens to be the ugliest one too. So there's the ugly one and a M28/76.

I do really like them however. Nice collection Calfed!

Thanks, Hetzer...there is something about Finnish military rifles (and Swiss, Swedish, US...)

Here are the M39's Finnish cousins...

 

[Hetzer]

What are you running for loads in the M39? I had been up to 40 gr of N140 with the D166 (?) bullet. It was leaving soot around the necks which was making me think it's a bit weak. I think I've read elsewhere that you have to get another grain or two up from that but I haven't done so. I think 40 grains of N140 is the max from Vihtavouri.

 

[Calfed]

I've had good luck with 53 grs of IMR 4350 and a Hornady 174gr .3105 bullet in my M39's. IMO, the Hornady #3131 is a good match for the M39's .310 bore.

 

[Hetzer]

I'll have to give them a try. If they can be found! Seems like every Hornady bullet is "Out of Stock" at the moment.

 

[Calfed]

I'll have to give them a try. If they can be found! Seems like every Hornady bullet is "Out of Stock" at the moment.

Yeah, reloading supplies are becoming like ammo...unobtainium.

 

[delinquent pleb]

I do have to admit to a certain weakness for Finnish rifles...

Sir...just...wow

 

[Squidder_K]

While everyone is talking M39s, has anyone ever tried shooting .308 projectiles out of them? I have heard some will shoot .308 pils with a degree of success. Has anyone every tried this?

cheers

Depends on the barrel. M27's have a tighter tolerance if they are "F" marked .3095" as opposed to some of the other rifles marked with a "D." The D is for the heavier D166 round 7.62 x 53R. Those with D's are supposed to shoot both, but slugging the barrel would be the best bet. Also M28/30's have a slower rate of twist then all the other Finns (I think it is 10:1 if I recall correctly).

I have few 39's, a 28/76 and a 27. So I get to see what works with what.

The only 7.62x53R I have come across for shooting or reloading is all Lapua. My 27 is safe queen right now till I can get some brass and bullets.

 

[Unknown]

Years and years ago when I owned a Finnish M39 I found an article discussing the accuracy requirements that the Finn's had for their rifles, and it was quite impressive. When using the cheap military ball ammo that came in a torquoise colored paper box with a diagonal silver stripe on the box, my M39 shot as well or better than my national Match M1 Garand...I was impressed with it, and wish I had kept the M39.

Any rifle that shoots the cheapest ammo can find as well as that M39 did is one I should have kept. Back then that ammo was around $4.00 per box of 20.