Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

[Psycho-82]

So i got a call about 15 mins ago (2300L) from my platoon sergeant saying i have to turn in all my firearms because im "high risk". The only reason im considered "high risk" is because ive been diagnosed with PTSD. All my weapons are registered with post (even though i dont agree with this regulation), im not considered by any medical professionals i see regarding the above issue to be a threat to myself or anyone else, im a CHL holder so the state sees me fit to carry. The higher command (BN lvl) has made a call that all high risk soldiers are to turn in their weapons without making any actual informed decisions based on medical evaluations from current providers. I dont know if this is really illegal... however i do find it immoral as i am now unable to defend myself, my family, nor my property... of which i had a motorcycle stolen from right out in front of my place in broad daylight! Whats are your thoughts on this... and advice?

 

[jasonk]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats are your thoughts on this... and advice?</div></div>

I'd start by changing my screen name.....

PS...just trying to add some humor, I truly appreciate your service and the crap you endured to be diagnosed with PTSD.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats are your thoughts on this... and advice?</div></div>

I'd start by changing my screen name.....

PS...just trying to add some humor, I truly appreciate your service and the crap you endured to be diagnosed with PTSD. </div></div>

LOL... now at first i was expecting some bullshit, until i remembered what my screen name was then i laughed! Thanks that was a good laugh!

 

[jasonk]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

I'm glad you took it in the way it was intended, all in good fun my friend and thanks again.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

I'd be hitting up the JAG office first thing in the morning on this one. They're the only ones that can answer the legality issue.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[eddieo]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Unless doctors deem you a risk to yourself and others by having access to your firearms then the liklihood is that the management is acting outside their control. Is there any liklihood that the docs may have informed the management or the other way around. if so then there is a privacy and ethical and legal issue involved.

I was diagnosed with PTSD, and I still have all my firearms, and the cops here are bad.

 

[christian77]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

JAG/IG with a quickness (BEFORE YOU TURN THEM IN) and what were you thinking registering your POWs with the Provost Martial? Keep them off post and it's none of Uncle Sugar's business if you have blasters!

 

[USMCj]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

If all els fails, find a family member that doesnt live with you to "sell" all of your firearms to. If you turn them in, you may never see them again.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

By all means get a legal opinion from JAG. If you can do this off the record, so much the better. Hold off on any retalliatory charges, such actions could be considered a confirmation of their vague insinuations. Knowing your legal situation is good, acting on it can always wait for the most opportune time. Discussing the matter in a calm and disappointed manner with your Chaplain could lend just the proper air to your story should push come to shove.

Meanwhle, seek out your PTSD caregivers and push them for some manner of care and resolution of the PTSD issue. As long as there is any question of your competence, there will be questions that lead to the kind of draconian preemtions you are currently experiencing. The only people who can give you a clean bill are the PTSD caregivers.

UCMJ overrides the Bill of Rights where rights are concerned for sworn military personnel. Keep your responses to these events on a low key. That includes what you post on public forums.

Turning in the firearms is mandated, but to whom is the more interesting question. I would suggest you simply have them transferred to a 'disinterested third party' (i.e. FFL holder) offbase. Doing this yourself might have issues at the base gate in case a watch has been placed on you and/or your vehicle.

Greg

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

If you live on Post, I can see where the Commander has that authority (within reason). If you live off Post, I would think a trip to JAG is definately in order.

If the Commander thinks you are unfit to own/posess firearms, then the rule should also apply for duty weapons. Is he determining you are also unfit for battle????

Sounds like he is taking things waaaay too far and overstepping his authority.


Read this post:
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=183178;article=191445;title=Gary Reeder Custom Guns

Frank, I understand this link may be political (Because it mentions the current admin. My purpose here is to provide possible information to the OP. I have also heard rumors that PTSD troops are being targeted)

 

[Parallax]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Some things are just wrong no matter how you look at them. What a commander "can" do under current rules sure doesn't mean it's something he "should" do... PTSD is very misunderstood and the "liability" some associate with it's diagnosis is pure bull shit.

The rest of this post below is off topic but may be an important resource for someone....
---------------------------------------------------------------
Before I retired in July I hired a USMC veteran with a <span style="text-decoration: underline">duty related disability due to PTSD </span>as a Police Officer. He finished Academy last Fall and field training in June and is a solid officer... has a bright future. His PTSD may affect his sleep pattern and dreams, but has nothing to do with his ability to do the job. The diagnosis of PTSD is overly broad...

We are fortunate, in Wisconsin, to have one of the top experts in PTSD practicing as a Psychologist specific to evaluating law enforcement, military and other emergency services workers. I made damn sure to send my officer to this guy's firm, Tyre and Childs Public Safety Consulting (Dr Tim Tyre, Capt USN, Ret. was an expert in this field way before it was "vouge" to say you are...). Either Dr Tyre or Dr Childs are good. Since Psych evals became manditory in our State, every psychologist suddenly started doing emergency services evals and became experts in PTSD. This means... other Dr.'s in this State are giving automatic psych disqualification to anyone with diagnosed PTSD.

 

[Scatt_Nasty]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Sounds like it is justified as long as they are making it a requirement for ALL Soldiers.(IE they aren't saying YOU and ONLY you have to surrender your POW's).. Even if it is legal there are SOOO many ways to get around it.

Definitely go to jag though.

 

[christian77]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FYCN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like it is justified as long as they are making it a requirement for ALL Soldiers...</div></div>How is this "justified" to you when their are so many varying levels of PTSD? Sounds like a blanket punishment for a broad diagnosis.

FAIL.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Don't turn in jack or shit. Take them to a safe place to be stored then go to JAG forthwith

 

[Scatt_Nasty]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FYCN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like it is justified as long as they are making it a requirement for ALL Soldiers...</div></div>How is this "justified" to you when their are so many varying levels of PTSD? Sounds like a blanket punishment for a broad diagnosis.

FAIL. </div></div>

Don't get mad at me guy, get mad at the Army for entrusting commander's with so much authority. I don't think Battalion Commander's just pull shit out of their ass without checking to make sure it doesn't make them look like an ass.

Like I said, definitely consult with JAG. And there are many loop holes with the on post/off post scenario.

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats are your thoughts on this... and advice?</div></div>

I'd start by changing my screen name.....

PS...just trying to add some humor, I truly appreciate your service and the crap you endured to be diagnosed with PTSD. </div></div>

Now that was great, +1 to the second part too though

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

The problem with PTSD is it affects everyone to some extent, be it soldiers, cops, paramedics, and ER personnal. People should get help of one sort of another, mostly just talking to someone (peers help most in my opinion).

A sure way to prevent people from getting help is you come up with a blanket punishment for someone who wants help.

Yeah that'll work. Good way to get people to clam up holding it in making it worse.

I'm of the opinion that the army has no business knowing how many private guns one has. I know it's hind site, but I would never keep guns on post, or register them with the PM.

Seems odd, one has PTSD and is suppose to turn in his PW, but can remain in the military and use their weapons.

 

[Handloader]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

They are well within their ability to seize your weapons. This happens in more instances than you are most likely aware of. A high risk soldier is just that (high risk for injury to self or others). The military is experiencing unacceptable levels of suicide (if one can deem any suicide is acceptable), and I anticipate much more stringent programs and evaluations/briefings in the future. That said, I highly encourage you to speak with a health care/ behavior health care specialist to resolve these issues (be it factual issues, or assumed issues). That said, if you want more guidance, PM me, and I will talk to you offline, or point you in a direction were you can get to one of these health care providers. PTSD is real, nothing to be ashamed about.

 

[pappy42]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

On the face of this; it seems like a knee jerk CYA reaction by an O who is a politician instead of a leader.

However, I submitted P82's opening post to a former Army JAG O, who is now in private practice. His specialty in JAG was as an advocate of PTSD troops (VN era)who received unfair treament by the Army.

I will post his oppinion here when I hear back from him.

FWIW, I carried a gun(s) daily, as well as serving on tactical teams as a counter-sniper for 25 years as a LEO, after having been diagnosed as having PTSD.

 

[Crewdog135]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Folks pointed you to the JAG--right thinking, wrong target. You want to talk to the Area Defense Counsel (ADC). JAG is the commander's counsel; ADC is yours. Talk with the IG as well.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

FYCN,
You would be suprised how many individual's in Command Positions pull stuff out of their asses without checking regulations, but taking advice from other individuals who are pulling stuff out their asses. I think it's a condition concurrent with the suberversion of certain after hours social clubs.

JAG is indeed the place wehre Command goes, however if YOU get there first, they have to work with you.
Admin Law, Legal Advice Section are two places you can go. IG, well they will usually follow Command. Only go to IG if you have already checked with Admin Law(these guys will correct JAG real quick if they are giving a commander the wrong advice).

What a friend did who lived on base:
He went and found a very secure Self Storage facility, bought a really nice gun safe($700+) and bolted it to the floor of the SS with a Hilti Gun and magnum load length bolts. He then placed all his arms in there with the exception of one Ruger GP100 that his OL kept in her nightstand
Just a little info that usually works for Soldiers. Read it, think about it, use what you need, discard what you don't need.

Ask the question to Admin Law or anyone else: What CAN they(Command) Do? What CAN YOU Do?
Never ask what CAN'T be done. It is unproductive and rife with rhetoric

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

I don't want to go political eiher but there are some VERY STRANGE things going on in DOD right now.

Last week an admiral slipped and said they were ordered to begin getting rid of contractors, 15% at a time. I fall in that 15% range. I also know this is because there are so many double dippers in the pentagon and it's costing a mint but the rule applied DOD wide.

This is NOT the first time I've heard of strange things regarding weapons but I cannnot speak for fact, just that there is a Marine base nearby and that command has a very dire warning to marines with weapons, so I've heard.

There are some strange things going on, but unless you work at the pentagon with a TS/SCI and a need to know you, and I, don't know.

I just hear things around here sometimes that make me shake my head.

I do know I'm unemployed due to one of these DOD wide orders however...


Go to JAG.

 

[Strickland]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

I'm curious as to what in the hell they would do with them if you turned them in? Keep them until you transfer? Destroy them?

I'd sell them to a friend (close one) long before I turned them in.

 

[Handloader]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

If this is a post policy…you really have no options

You need to go to the legal service office for illegal actions by command. This should be in the JAG office. This is a legal service office that is set up for the enlisted and is for the soldier (not for the command).

You need to ask your health service provider if they made the request that your weapons be removed.

You need to ask you’re higher for a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">copy</span></span> of the post policy that your command is using to enforce the seizure of your POW’s.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

They own you and everything you do. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

I would suggest that you don't own any POWs if you don't want them to have control over them.

Now...what you buddy owns and let's you use any time you want, that's different...

 

[marduk185]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

unfortunately military service generally precludes alot of your otherwise constitutionally protected rights. im sure most would agree that your predicament is bs but oftentimes thats the deal when living on a military installation. dont fret tho, we civilians live under our own set of bs predicaments.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Sell them all, once you turn them in we all know you'll never see them again.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddieo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless doctors deem you a risk to yourself and others by having access to your firearms then the liklihood is that the management is acting outside their control. Is there any liklihood that the docs may have informed the management or the other way around. if so then there is a privacy and ethical and legal issue involved.

I was diagnosed with PTSD, and I still have all my firearms, and the cops here are bad. </div></div>

None of the docs i see think im a threat and again they would not give any information out to anyone due to HIPPA violations. I tried calling them over the phone to get them to explain to my command that im not a threat but they would not do it (as they need confidencialty release forms signed).

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JAG/IG with a quickness (BEFORE YOU TURN THEM IN) and what were you thinking registering your POWs with the Provost Martial? Keep them off post and it's none of Uncle Sugar's business if you have blasters! </div></div>

In a past experience with a similar issue i had my stripes taken from me for not registering my POW with post even though i did not have them on post. The post policy states regardless if they are on or off post youre required to have them registered within 72hours of acquiring them. Ive already gone to JAG and IG.... JAG wont see me until 13 Sep and IG is closed... And in order to not get in more trouble (trying to ensure i dont lose more rank) the weapons were taken from me last night.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all els fails, find a family member that doesnt live with you to "sell" all of your firearms to. If you turn them in, you may never see them again. </div></div>

The only person family wise that is near me is my wife and according to Ft Bliss Regs spouses firearms are required to be registered as well.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By all means get a legal opinion from JAG. If you can do this off the record, so much the better. Hold off on any retalliatory charges, such actions could be considered a confirmation of their vague insinuations. Knowing your legal situation is good, acting on it can always wait for the most opportune time. Discussing the matter in a calm and disappointed manner with your Chaplain could lend just the proper air to your story should push come to shove.

Meanwhle, seek out your PTSD caregivers and push them for some manner of care and resolution of the PTSD issue. As long as there is any question of your competence, there will be questions that lead to the kind of draconian preemtions you are currently experiencing. The only people who can give you a clean bill are the PTSD caregivers.

UCMJ overrides the Bill of Rights where rights are concerned for sworn military personnel. Keep your responses to these events on a low key. That includes what you post on public forums.

Turning in the firearms is mandated, but to whom is the more interesting question. I would suggest you simply have them transferred to a 'disinterested third party' (i.e. FFL holder) offbase. Doing this yourself might have issues at the base gate in case a watch has been placed on you and/or your vehicle.

Greg </div></div>

The sad part is i tried getting a hold of my docs, one went on vacation for 2 weeks and so i cant get in contact with him (the one most on my side that would actually help the most). The other i called and is to new to know what his job really is (i was transfered to him the other week since my old doc PCSd), and due to the weekend he was leaving and noon and wasnt willing to help much without a million different papers that couldnt be gotten in time. The weapons were put in my unit arms room for storage as i couldnt have them transfered to a 3rd party like an FFL/friend/etc according to FB reg.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you live on Post, I can see where the Commander has that authority (within reason). If you live off Post, I would think a trip to JAG is definately in order.

If the Commander thinks you are unfit to own/posess firearms, then the rule should also apply for duty weapons. Is he determining you are also unfit for battle????

Sounds like he is taking things waaaay too far and overstepping his authority. </div></div>

I do live off post in a civilian residence... so military jurisdiction technically shouldnt be authorized. On the other part, they have me draw my assigned weapon all the time... just went to weapons qual in August, as well as convoy live fire exercises, and close quarterr marskmenship ranges.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this is a post policy…you really have no options

You need to ask you’re higher for a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">copy</span></span> of the post policy that your command is using to enforce the seizure of your POW’s.
</div></div>

There is no post policy regarding this specific issue, this was a verbal order given by the BN commander so nothing in writing is available...

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

I'm curious as to if they allowed you to continue using weapons for work before or after the PTSD diagnosis. Were you given a profile when diagnosed? If so, what does the profile state about access to weapons?

I ask because I went through the same thing. PTSD dx, immediately wanted me to turn in my weapons. Only difference was I saw this coming and I sold, with a written contract, all my personal firearms to a friend off post and not in the Army. Being that he was a friend, he knew the contract was solely to appease my unit and as such did not keep a copy for himself.

When my unit wanted me to turn my firearms into the PMO I informed them with a copy of the contract that this would be unnecessary as I had taken the initiative of selling them to relieve the Army of any worry.

They knew what I did, but they couldn't prove shit.

Oddly enough, I was able to talk the Doctor into leaving off weapons in the profile. How I was able to convince a Psychiatrist to do that, I have no idea. It was before the Fort Hood incident though.

I know personally that I'd never use my weapons in an illegal manner or in a manner so as to bring harm to another human being unless my life was in danger- but my unit didn't.

If you have PTSD and can handle weapons- that's great, absolutely so!

However, the unit has to cover their ass. You may be just like me and probably thousands of other guys with PTSD- some issues but nothing weapons related. You might not be. Your Lt.Col. doesn't want to take the chance.

I'm sure that if you have no profile and get a letter from the Doc stating you are ok to have weapons, and they still allow you to have access to weapons for training- that you will get em back.

In the future- don't register shit at the PMO.

I lived in housing so I had little choice at the time of registration as I literally deployed 6 days after getting housing.

Just keep being a model soldier and don't have any incidents and you'll be fine.

 

[patsim]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

UCMJ overrides the Bill of Rights where rights are concerned for sworn military personnel. Keep your responses to these events on a low key. That includes what you post on public forums.


Greg </div></div>

Pretty ironic that one must give up one's own rights to fight for and defend those of others.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patsim</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

UCMJ overrides the Bill of Rights where rights are concerned for sworn military personnel. Keep your responses to these events on a low key. That includes what you post on public forums.


Greg </div></div>

Pretty ironic that one must give up one's own rights to fight for and defend those of others.</div></div>

I always thought that, that was the unspoken power of the volunteer Army. That a person can believe so much in a cause and Country that they would be willing to put their own self-satisfaction on hold to preserve and defend it. Sometimes spreading it and helping foster it, in the process.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

They allowed me to continue using weapons for training after my diagnosis. Ive bought weapons after the diagnosis as according to the 4473 how the question was written i was not in violation to my understanding and my FFL's. I do not have any profile what so ever regarding this issue yet they want to make decisions based on wrong information.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty ironic that one must give up one's own rights to fight for and defend those of others. </div></div>

I hear this a lot... but nowhere in my enlistment contracts did i agree or see anything about giving up my rights in order to defend others!

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty ironic that one must give up one's own rights to fight for and defend those of others. </div></div>

I hear this a lot... but nowhere in my enlistment contracts did i agree or see anything about giving up my rights in order to defend others!

</div></div>

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

You agreed to it. You even said it vocally, twice at the minimum (DEP and Swear in). As well as in any re-enlistments you have done.

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CavScout1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psycho-82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty ironic that one must give up one's own rights to fight for and defend those of others. </div></div>

I hear this a lot... but nowhere in my enlistment contracts did i agree or see anything about giving up my rights in order to defend others!

</div></div>

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

You agreed to it. You even said it vocally, twice at the minimum (DEP and Swear in). As well as in any re-enlistments you have done.

</div></div>

I know what i swore to uphold and defend but no where in there does it say i give up my rights... now if you do happen to know a reg that has that information then please give me the reg number, chapter, paragraph and ill look at it... and if it says that i gave up my rights then so be it. Im not trying to be a smart ass but i really want to see in writing where everyone gets this from! Or is it just another one of those "its how weve always done it" roles that really isnt right.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Any chance you may have been overheard saying something that was taken out of context?Pretty unusual they call you at 2300hrs to bring weapons in.Usually only the CQ and SDO on duty.

Are we hearing the whole story or just part of it?

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any chance you may have been overheard saying something that was taken out of context?Pretty unusual they call you at 2300hrs to bring weapons in.Usually only the CQ and SDO on duty.

Are we hearing the whole story or just part of it? </div></div>

There was nothing that was taken out of context as ive seen just what that can do in the past so i make sure i dont joke about that due to wanting to avoid just that misunderstanding. Sadly this is the whole story... im not much for holding out the truth just to make myself look good. The BN CDR made a rash decision that late at night and sent out the directive. My 1SG called me around 2315 to confirm what the PSG said since him and i go back.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

That sucks then.I got sent to a shrink in Italy over some BS,they were all freaked out as I had full access to the entire basic load for SETAF.My CO backed me on that one.The shrink,an 06,said I was not crazy,just stubborn,bullheaded and thought too much like a civilian.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

The guns are now lost to your wife in a bet. Draft up something on a napkin. Mention Grey's Anatomy in it. Let them make a copy.

They don't have any pull over spouses. Normally.

 

[MKSMN]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Talk to NRA-ILA...their lawyers are subject-matter experts and will probably be able to give you a more accurate opinion than anyone else. They're also taking on the issue of forced registration of personal weapons, IIRC.

 

[BountyHunter]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

tell your First Sgt that you are filing an Article 138 complaint against the Bn Commander and watch what happens. Ask for time to go to Jag to file it and tell the JAG you are considering it.

Google it. It is the most powerful tool and enables anyone under the UCMJ to file a grievance against the Commander. Must be investigated by higher command, goes in his official file and cannot be stopped locally by anyone. Goes to the highest level ie Sec of the Army for final disposition and approval. Pretty much a career ender if proven.

Brings on the instant sanity check to even mention it once the Commander call JAG and asks what is an Article 138 and can they really do that?

BH

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERXI.html#938.138


938. ART. 138. COMPLAINTS OF WRONGS

Any member of the armed forces who believes himself wronged by his commanding officer, and who, upon due application to that commanding officer, is refused redress, may complain to any superior commissioned officer, who shall foreword the complaint to the office exercising court-martial jurisdiction over the officer against whom it is made. The officer exercising general court-martial jurisdiction shall examine into the complaint and take proper measures for redressing the wrong complained of; and he shall, as soon as possible, send to the Secretary concerned a true statement of that complaint, with the proceedings thereon.

Make sure you insure that you cover every portion of redress as well as what you desire to be done with Admin Law or Legal Assistance.

This action will stop an entire command for days until it is resolved. Resolution MUST be given to you and official record will be placed in the commander's file. Make sure you have your shit wired tight and your OTV/ACH buckled well

 

[Psycho-82]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERXI.html#938.138


938. ART. 138. COMPLAINTS OF WRONGS

Any member of the armed forces who believes himself wronged by his commanding officer, and who, upon due application to that commanding officer, is refused redress, may complain to any superior commissioned officer, who shall foreword the complaint to the office exercising court-martial jurisdiction over the officer against whom it is made. The officer exercising general court-martial jurisdiction shall examine into the complaint and take proper measures for redressing the wrong complained of; and he shall, as soon as possible, send to the Secretary concerned a true statement of that complaint, with the proceedings thereon.

Make sure you insure that you cover every portion of redress as well as what you desire to be done with Admin Law or Legal Assistance.

This action will stop an entire command for days until it is resolved. Resolution MUST be given to you and official record will be placed in the commander's file. Make sure you have your shit wired tight and your OTV/ACH buckled well </div></div>

If i consider doing this whats your guys idea of "redress". Also i went in to see the CDR who made this decision on his open door policy and explained to him my side. According to my battery commander and PSG who sat in with me during this they claimed that it went down a lot better than they were expecting. Basically my LTC said if i had the docs letters showing i wasnt a threat he would return the weapons (which i cant get utnil tuesday due to the weekend). Im still upset over the fact that they went this route... but hopefully itll get turned around early next week.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

Go to the post Hospital and sign out your medical records. Copy everything in it. Every time you go again. Make copies of the new stuff.

If the docs are saying you're a nut job, it better be in the medical records. If they won't sign them out to you, fill out a release of information for so your lawyer can get access to the documents. A civilian lawyer will also cause quite a stir when it comes to the CC doing the right thing.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BountyHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tell your First Sgt that you are filing an Article 138 complaint against the Bn Commander and watch what happens. Ask for time to go to Jag to file it and tell the JAG you are considering it.

Google it. It is the most powerful tool and enables anyone under the UCMJ to file a grievance against the Commander. Must be investigated by higher command, goes in his official file and cannot be stopped locally by anyone. Goes to the highest level ie Sec of the Army for final disposition and approval. Pretty much a career ender if proven.

Brings on the instant sanity check to even mention it once the Commander call JAG and asks what is an Article 138 and can they really do that?

BH </div></div>


And if not proven, your dead! Going toe to toe with a BN Commander is not the best idea if you want to stay in the Army.

 

[pappy42]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pappy42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the face of this; it seems like a knee jerk CYA reaction by an O who is a politician instead of a leader.

However, I submitted P82's opening post to a former Army JAG O, who is now in private practice. His specialty in JAG was as an advocate of PTSD troops (VN era)who received unfair treament by the Army.

I will post his oppinion here when I hear back from him.

FWIW, I carried a gun(s) daily, as well as serving on tactical teams as a counter-sniper for 25 years as a LEO, after having been diagnosed as having PTSD. </div></div>

Direct quote from former JAG O and practicing Attorney:

"You could find an honest jag but a civ atty will work for him not uncle"

FWIW

 

[High Binder]

Re: Firearms taken by command due to PTSD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BountyHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tell your First Sgt that you are filing an Article 138 complaint against the Bn Commander and watch what happens. Ask for time to go to Jag to file it and tell the JAG you are considering it.

Google it. It is the most powerful tool and enables anyone under the UCMJ to file a grievance against the Commander. Must be investigated by higher command, goes in his official file and cannot be stopped locally by anyone. Goes to the highest level ie Sec of the Army for final disposition and approval. Pretty much a career ender if proven.

Brings on the instant sanity check to even mention it once the Commander call JAG and asks what is an Article 138 and can they really do that?

BH </div></div>
if you want to stay in the Army. </div></div>

Why would he want to stay in the Army after this..?