Firing squad this Friday?

[Fx51LP308]

Well, Trump is now supporting the mandatory death penalty for anyone who shoots a cop.

To be honest, I have some serious "justice" concerns about that. I'm not in favor of any Capital sentencing factor that takes into account who the victim was and what they chose to do for a living. If I and an LEO are walking down the street together and two BG's approach us... one shoots/kills me and the other shoots/kills the LEO, my BG will get Life without Parole and the LEO's BG will ride the needle? NFW! Total miscarriage of justice. The status of the victim should have no role in sentencing. Murder is Murder, no matter who the victim... no matter who the BG.

Now, that said, I do realize the role LEOs play in society. And I would like to offer this as an alternative that I think solves everyone's problems. I offer a new "aggravating factor" called the "justice" factor. That is, "It shall be an aggravating factor for Capital Punishment when a murder is committed under the following circumstances:

1) The actor was attempting to evade justice or due process of law

2) The actor was acting in retaliation for an act of justice or due process of law against the actor;

3) The actor displayed a willful and wanton hatred or bias against anyone involved in the justice system or its processes. "

I think that should cover everything. 1) would cover LEOs being KIA'ed but also cover court personnel, lawyers, primarily witnesses that might testify against the BG, etc, etc, 2) would cover the same people for already committing an act of justice against the BG (witnesses testifying, the jury returning a verdict or the judge imposing sentence, etc. or LEOs locking them up, etc. etc. 3) would be the "bias crime" factor... ie. people who just plain hate LEOs, Judges, court personnel, etc. etc.

What this new factor does, though, is remove the focus on the "victim" when imposing sentence, and places it back squarely on the shoulders of the BG and the BG's motives. It should always be he BG's motives as the primary factor in sentencing, not anything else.

 

[W54/XM-388]

To be honest, I have some serious "justice" concerns about that. I'm not in favor of any Capital sentencing factor that takes into account who the victim was and what they chose to do for a living. If I and an LEO are walking down the street together and two BG's approach us... one shoots/kills me and the other shoots/kills the LEO, my BG will get Life without Parole and the LEO's BG will ride the needle? NFW! Total miscarriage of justice. The status of the victim should have no role in sentencing. Murder is Murder, no matter who the victim... no matter who the BG.

Now, that said, I do realize the role LEOs play in society. And I would like to offer this as an alternative that I think solves everyone's problems. I offer a new "aggravating factor" called the "justice" factor. That is, "It shall be an aggravating factor for Capital Punishment when a murder is committed under the following circumstances:

1) The actor was attempting to evade justice or due process of law

2) The actor was acting in retaliation for an act of justice or due process of law against the actor;

3) The actor displayed a willful and wanton hatred or bias against anyone involved in the justice system or its processes. "

I think that should cover everything. 1) would cover LEOs being KIA'ed but also cover court personnel, lawyers, primarily witnesses that might testify against the BG, etc, etc, 2) would cover the same people for already committing an act of justice against the BG (witnesses testifying, the jury returning a verdict or the judge imposing sentence, etc. or LEOs locking them up, etc. etc. 3) would be the "bias crime" factor... ie. people who just plain hate LEOs, Judges, court personnel, etc. etc.

What this new factor does, though, is remove the focus on the "victim" when imposing sentence, and places it back squarely on the shoulders of the BG and the BG's motives. It should always be he BG's motives as the primary factor in sentencing, not anything else.

I can't really agree with that.

Especially your number 3

Every day, those who are not willfully blind are shown multiple examples of people "involved in the justice system or it's processes" doing evil, displaying hatred and contempt for the common citizens, acting with impunity and showing them just how "superior" they feel and how unaccountable they think they are.

So YES if some Uniform hanger killed, assaulted, brutalized, or tyrannized someone I love or care about you can bet your ass I'm going to have full on hatred and bias against them, and anyone that supported them, worked with them, covered for them, employed them, gave orders to them, excused them or was in any way complicit in them getting away with it.

Once again it sounds like the boot lickers creed for "just bow down and lick the boots of the oppressors and beat up anyone who doesn't"

As to your number 1
"Due process of law"??

Do you mean when the Uniform hangers just go murdering someone for no good reason on beating up old folks because "well officer idiot felt disrespected" or such.

As to your number 2
At this point in time it's becoming clear to lots of folks there is zero justice in the courts or "process of law" for the citizens who are victims of the Uniform hangers... What you call "retaliation" might just as easily be called "righteous street justice"...

As to lawyers and judges, well if you want to make them also some special class of untouchables, well you deserve the society you'll get.

 

[MK20]

To be honest, I have some serious "justice" concerns about that. I'm not in favor of any Capital sentencing factor that takes into account who the victim was and what they chose to do for a living. If I and an LEO are walking down the street together and two BG's approach us... one shoots/kills me and the other shoots/kills the LEO, my BG will get Life without Parole and the LEO's BG will ride the needle? NFW! Total miscarriage of justice. The status of the victim should have no role in sentencing. Murder is Murder, no matter who the victim... no matter who the BG.

Now, that said, I do realize the role LEOs play in society. And I would like to offer this as an alternative that I think solves everyone's problems. I offer a new "aggravating factor" called the "justice" factor. That is, "It shall be an aggravating factor for Capital Punishment when a murder is committed under the following circumstances:

1) The actor was attempting to evade justice or due process of law

2) The actor was acting in retaliation for an act of justice or due process of law against the actor;

3) The actor displayed a willful and wanton hatred or bias against anyone involved in the justice system or its processes. "

I think that should cover everything. 1) would cover LEOs being KIA'ed but also cover court personnel, lawyers, primarily witnesses that might testify against the BG, etc, etc, 2) would cover the same people for already committing an act of justice against the BG (witnesses testifying, the jury returning a verdict or the judge imposing sentence, etc. or LEOs locking them up, etc. etc. 3) would be the "bias crime" factor... ie. people who just plain hate LEOs, Judges, court personnel, etc. etc.

What this new factor does, though, is remove the focus on the "victim" when imposing sentence, and places it back squarely on the shoulders of the BG and the BG's motives. It should always be he BG's motives as the primary factor in sentencing, not anything else.

Nope, because 2 and 3 are still basically qualified immunity.

An ATF raid with shoot to kill orders on Randy Weaver was considered "due process of law"

My good friend owned the property next to Randy Weaver.

 

[Makinchips208]

My good friend owned the property next to Randy Weaver.

This wasn't the neighbor involved with the land dispute with Randy, was it??

 

[MK20]

No. He was a friend.

 

[fx77]

I guess it depends on how strong a defense team this guy has and if he can get all the stays defense attys usually try to get. Assuming all those are exhausted, then I guess it will happen... the first "Firing Squad" in SC (historically, they were always the Electric Chair).

I still don't understand why the prison systems in death penalty states don't come together collectively and fund a "compound pharmacy" that will produce the needed drugs for them. I think Texas gets their Pentobarbital from a "confidential" compound pharmacy. The original 3 drug cocktail was best but, sadly, I think Sodium Thiopental (Pentothal) is still under patent by Hospira Corp. Florida uses a drug called "Etomidate" as it's unconsciousness drug.

I hope they get it together because, no matter what people say, lethal injection is the most humane method, if it's done properly (i.e if they can establish a proper IV line without it blowing). I don't know why a condemned person isn't evaluated for that a few days prior to the execution. And, if they can't find one, then consider an alternate like Nitrogen hypoxia.

All they need is cheap fentanyl in greatly available supply

 

[fx77]

So you say. Being a SCUBA diver, I have a bit of knowledge/experience on the effects of excessive Nitrogen on the body. It actually has a "narcotic" like effect. One gets "narced" if they dive too deeply on just "air." It would seem that the condemned also gets "narced" before passing out. Not as humane as lethal injection, but definitely not "torture."



No, they can't. The drugs have to be "Commercial Grade" and come from a reputable company or compound pharmacy. They have to be tested as much as possible to ensure they work correctly. They can't use "street fentanyl" as they cannot guarantee its purity. If they did, and something were to happen to the condemned (i.e they suffer before they die), the corrections people could be sued silly. For the same reason, they also have to establish and maintain sterility when starting the IV lines. just in case the execution is called off just prior to them pushing the drugs.

Morphine ...tested, efficient, cheap, readily available, commercial grade

 

[Fx51LP308]

I can't really agree with that.

Especially your number 3

Every day, those who are not willfully blind are shown multiple examples of people "involved in the justice system or it's processes" doing evil, displaying hatred and contempt for the common citizens, acting with impunity and showing them just how "superior" they feel and how unaccountable they think they are.

So YES if some Uniform hanger killed, assaulted, brutalized, or tyrannized someone I love or care about you can bet your ass I'm going to have full on hatred and bias against them, and anyone that supported them, worked with them, covered for them, employed them, gave orders to them, excused them or was in any way complicit in them getting away with it.

Once again it sounds like the boot lickers creed for "just bow down and lick the boots of the oppressors and beat up anyone who doesn't"

As to your number 1
"Due process of law"??

Do you mean when the Uniform hangers just go murdering someone for no good reason on beating up old folks because "well officer idiot felt disrespected" or such.

As to your number 2
At this point in time it's becoming clear to lots of folks there is zero justice in the courts or "process of law" for the citizens who are victims of the Uniform hangers... What you call "retaliation" might just as easily be called "righteous street justice"...

As to lawyers and judges, well if you want to make them also some special class of untouchables, well you deserve the society you'll get.

Nope, because 2 and 3 are still basically qualified immunity.

An ATF raid with shoot to kill orders on Randy Weaver was considered "due process of law"

My good friend owned the property next to Randy Weaver.

So, what's the alternative, then? Keeping things "Status Quo?" Allowing Pres. Trump to implement the death penalty for cop killers? Or. alternatively, allowing LEOs to be murdered willy-nilly, without any repercussions? God help you if you ever actually need one in real life.

Do I think all cops are as "pure as the driven snow?" Of Course not! I can't stand it when I see cops on the tube trying to downplay the level of corruption and asshattery ("Oh, it's only just a few...") and trying to manipulate the media and the public. I abhor it when I see corrupt cops trying to get away with things like "Civil Asset Forfeiture" or using ERPOs to disarm the public, permanently. Those could affect me directly! But that doesn't make me want to kill them... or want them dead. C'Mon! Nonetheless, I don't think they're all the Devil's spawn, either. As an EMT, I've worked with many. They are very good and want to do the right job. Sometimes, they are subject to management issues, even when they might disagree with it. But they do try, generally. They deserve some respect.

For those LEOS that are good and deserve respect, I offer my justice factor. Those that aren't should be stripped of their badges and/or face worse punishments, including capital punishment if they are convicted of unjustly killing a citizen under color of authority... especially under color of authority. Because of that color of authority, they must all be held to a higher standard. Will that happen? Probably not. For the same reasons the "Woke" have the media wrapped around their little finger, LE has the same. Just like liberals, etc., LEOs are extremely loud, vocal, in your face and demonstrative and know precisely how to manipulate the media to get what they want. You're not going to stop them from preaching 'death penalty for cop killers." You're not going to get them to admit to all the asshatery and corruption! They're going to dp all they can to marginalize all the bad cops. How do we fix that? Maybe civilian review baords and the like. But the thing is, the more you discipline cops in general, the more they quit the force. And then what do you have? Chaos? Anarchy?

All I'm saying is, take care of the good ones, while preserving justice for everyone. That's why my amendment does.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Morphine ...tested, efficient, cheap, readily available, commercial grade

One must be careful with Morphine. If too much is administered too soon, the condemned can hurl like crazy. It's a slow process. I know, I've had to do it. These other opioids work much faster and are as risky for barfing.

 

[W54/XM-388]

So, what's the alternative, then? Keeping things "Status Quo?" Allowing Pres. Trump to implement the death penalty for cop killers? Or. alternatively, allowing LEOs to be murdered willy-nilly, without any repercussions?

The issue is that so many "good folks" are totally propagandized and brainwashed about "The King's Men" being somehow superior to the subjects, based on old tyrannical feudal systems and rules, and forget about how we started a new country so "all men could be equal". Folks forget we aren't supposed to be serfs and slaves hoping our betters don't do bad things to us.

King's Men / Uniform Hangers / Police/ military / government officials / anybody else are no better and no worse than any other citizen and deserve no less or more rights or protection than anyone else.

The immediate answer is to tell Trump to pound sand and stop pandering.
He would be well off shutting his piehole about that stuff until he fixes the unaccountability of the Uniform Hangers and government as a whole.

The long form answer of the correct solution is that there must be equal justice for everyone.
Regardless of the status/occupation/race/sexuality/gender/ability/mental status etc. of the "perpetrator" or the "victim".

There should be NO "extra special people" or "extra special occupations" in the eyes of official justice and law.

The standards of what is allowed should also be the same regardless. (This also means all that B.S. about "hate crimes" laws are also invalid".

The "good police" are easily protected just the same as the "good citizens", since they are essentially nothing different just having a different job.

If you wind up harming or killing one of the police, well you can go to court and tell it to the jury just the same as if you did the same to any other citizen, with the same range of punishments available as for any other citizen, no less, no more. The same burden of proof as would be on the police, to proved you acted lawfully and had no reasonable choice but to do as you did (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If the police wind up harming or killing someone, they get to go to court the same way any other citizen would have to, and tell it to the jury, with the same range of punishments, the same burden of proof and the same burden to prove they acted lawfully, and had no reasonable choice but to do what they did. (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If a local Grand Jury is allowed to look at the evidence and dismiss a case against a citizen for something because the facts appear to be so overwhelming in their favour, then as long as they use the exact same standards, the same could apply to the police since the police have the same right as everybody else to not be killed or injured (including not by the police).

If you are worried about endless frivolous lawsuits, well then change the laws to be that before anyone can file a civil suit, it also has to go to a Grand Jury and they can see the information and decide if there is possible merit to it or if it's just pretty cut and dry and nope out you go, no case. That would need to apply pretty much exactly the same to the Police and everyone as it is to the Citizens.

The overlying and overwhelming problem of the "good folks" allowing the government to become a tyranny and oppress the citizens because they spent so long gleefully forging chains they thought would only be used on "those people we don't like" isn't going away like maybe ever. "The Good" people never ever seem to ever understand proper freedom (the founding of our country is a start example of the blindness of "the good folks")

The consequential problem of the corrupt / unaccountable Uniform Hangers is not something easily solved until the good folks have had enough and are willing to stop licking boots and get up off their knees That's not happening anytime soon...

Now I totally agree there are very many good police.
I also argue that in the end you pretty much always have to have some form of government and some form of "police" in one way or another once you move beyond a small tight knit tribe.
I think the police should be treated with respect and courtesy, the same as every citizen should be treated.

If you don't have Police, you will eventually have "police" with another name and citizens dishing out their own brand of justice and law gets really bad really fast if it becomes the norm instead of the rare case.


Something some folks might want to ponder on is, quite often on SH here how many folks are all either good with or cheering for wiping out Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs or whatever?
Most of whom are just simple backwards folks trying to live life in whatever rotten place they happen to be born into.

What is the usual excuse on SH for being good with mass killing and genocide of them all?
Well yes only a couple "bad apples" did the bad deeds, but the people allowed it, protected them, supported them, didn't stop it and didn't overthrow their governments...

 

[Mongo68]

As long as it saves one child…

 

[Tempest 455]

I vote .50 BMG with 750g AMAX.

 

[akmike47]

I vote .50 BMG with 750g AMAX.

 

[Fx51LP308]

It's done.

https://nypost.com/2025/03/07/us-news/double-murderer-brad-sigmon-becomes-first-death-row-inmate-to-die-by-firing-squad-in-15-years/

 

[Im2bent]

For his last words, Sigmon cited four Bible quotes that he said revealed that “nowhere does God in the New Testament give man the authority to kill another man”

Too bad he didn't practice what he was preaching at the end.

 

[Fx51LP308]

The SCDOC News Conference:



Skip to 18:00 for the conference to begin.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Russian men who knew the victim did this with a pedophile a while ago.

He was caught, taken to a cabin in the woods, and his dick was nailed to the floor. He was given a dull knife and the cabin was set on fire.

After he emerged dickless they took him and cut his guts open and left him for the wild boars to eat alive.

That seems satisfactory to me.

 

[Pharmseller]

When they executed Gary Gilmore in Utah in 1977 they used Mod. '95 Winhesters in 30-06. Not sure the bullet weight but sure it was FMJ.

He was seated in a chair facing a curtain and blindfolded and a white mark or bullseye was pinned on his heart.

The curtain was then raised exposing a firing squad seated at a rifle bench a short distance away. The order was given and he was executed, the curtain was immediately dropped again as the members of the firing squad lay their rifles down and were led out.

Don't remember how many were in the firing squad but they were local men and they practiced for days prior getting the single volley synchronization and accuracy down as one. I remember they did well for the most part and punched a single fist size hole with the exception of one flyer.

I read they used .30-30s.

Google agrees.

Gary Gilmore, the first person executed by a firing squad in the United States since 1967, was executed using a firing squad equipped with .30-30 caliber rifles and Winchester 150-grain SilverTip ammunition.




P

 

[BytorJr]

The issue is that so many "good folks" are totally propagandized and brainwashed about "The King's Men" being somehow superior to the subjects, based on old tyrannical feudal systems and rules, and forget about how we started a new country so "all men could be equal". Folks forget we aren't supposed to be serfs and slaves hoping our betters don't do bad things to us.

King's Men / Uniform Hangers / Police/ military / government officials / anybody else are no better and no worse than any other citizen and deserve no less or more rights or protection than anyone else.

The immediate answer is to tell Trump to pound sand and stop pandering.
He would be well off shutting his piehole about that stuff until he fixes the unaccountability of the Uniform Hangers and government as a whole.

The long form answer of the correct solution is that there must be equal justice for everyone.
Regardless of the status/occupation/race/sexuality/gender/ability/mental status etc. of the "perpetrator" or the "victim".

There should be NO "extra special people" or "extra special occupations" in the eyes of official justice and law.

The standards of what is allowed should also be the same regardless. (This also means all that B.S. about "hate crimes" laws are also invalid".

The "good police" are easily protected just the same as the "good citizens", since they are essentially nothing different just having a different job.

If you wind up harming or killing one of the police, well you can go to court and tell it to the jury just the same as if you did the same to any other citizen, with the same range of punishments available as for any other citizen, no less, no more. The same burden of proof as would be on the police, to proved you acted lawfully and had no reasonable choice but to do as you did (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If the police wind up harming or killing someone, they get to go to court the same way any other citizen would have to, and tell it to the jury, with the same range of punishments, the same burden of proof and the same burden to prove they acted lawfully, and had no reasonable choice but to do what they did. (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If a local Grand Jury is allowed to look at the evidence and dismiss a case against a citizen for something because the facts appear to be so overwhelming in their favour, then as long as they use the exact same standards, the same could apply to the police since the police have the same right as everybody else to not be killed or injured (including not by the police).

If you are worried about endless frivolous lawsuits, well then change the laws to be that before anyone can file a civil suit, it also has to go to a Grand Jury and they can see the information and decide if there is possible merit to it or if it's just pretty cut and dry and nope out you go, no case. That would need to apply pretty much exactly the same to the Police and everyone as it is to the Citizens.

The overlying and overwhelming problem of the "good folks" allowing the government to become a tyranny and oppress the citizens because they spent so long gleefully forging chains they thought would only be used on "those people we don't like" isn't going away like maybe ever. "The Good" people never ever seem to ever understand proper freedom (the founding of our country is a start example of the blindness of "the good folks")

The consequential problem of the corrupt / unaccountable Uniform Hangers is not something easily solved until the good folks have had enough and are willing to stop licking boots and get up off their knees That's not happening anytime soon...

Now I totally agree there are very many good police.
I also argue that in the end you pretty much always have to have some form of government and some form of "police" in one way or another once you move beyond a small tight knit tribe.
I think the police should be treated with respect and courtesy, the same as every citizen should be treated.

If you don't have Police, you will eventually have "police" with another name and citizens dishing out their own brand of justice and law gets really bad really fast if it becomes the norm instead of the rare case.


Something some folks might want to ponder on is, quite often on SH here how many folks are all either good with or cheering for wiping out Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs or whatever?
Most of whom are just simple backwards folks trying to live life in whatever rotten place they happen to be born into.

What is the usual excuse on SH for being good with mass killing and genocide of them all?
Well yes only a couple "bad apples" did the bad deeds, but the people allowed it, protected them, supported them, didn't stop it and didn't overthrow their governments...

Holy smokes sir…..

YOU GET IT!!!!!!!! Totally get it. Count me as impressed and that’s not an easy feat!!

 

[TexPatriot]

I read they used .30-30s.

Google agrees.

Gary Gilmore, the first person executed by a firing squad in the United States since 1967, was executed using a firing squad equipped with .30-30 caliber rifles and Winchester 150-grain SilverTip ammunition.




P

Ok. Im relying on almost 50 yr. old memory. I remember they used Mod. '95s and being that rifle ushered in that new flagship caliber, I automatically assumed it was the '06.

They shot GG with a hunting round? 30-30 150 gr. Silver Tips were my old deer hunting round I used in my Mod. 94 Winchester. I remember carrying a box of 20 in my Levi back pocket when I was in jr. high.

 

[TexPatriot]

Russian men who knew the victim did this with a pedophile a while ago.

He was caught, taken to a cabin in the woods, and his dick was nailed to the floor. He was given a dull knife and the cabin was set on fire.

After he emerged dickless they took him and cut his guts open and left him for the wild boars to eat alive.

That seems satisfactory to me.

That took some creativity.

 

[Pharmseller]

Ok. Im relying on almost 50 yr. old memory. I remember they used Mod. '95s and being that rifle ushered in that new flagship caliber, I automatically assumed it was the '06.

They shot GG with a hunting round? 30-30 150 gr. Silver Tips were my old deer hunting round I used in my Mod. 94 Winchester. I remember carrying a box of 20 in my Levi back pocket when I was in jr. high.

Model 64s, so they had class.



P

 

[TexPatriot]

Model 64s, so they had class.



P

Wow. I'm way off then. I remember seeing the rifles laying on the bench and the chair the condemned was sitting in, at carnival gallery range, and thought the rifles were '95s and therefore 30-06, it's flagship caliber.

I remember thinking, I hope that chair is bolted to the floor.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Yep, that mofo ded...

Next in line, Chris Watts and THIS fucker here:



This shit is worse than the most disturbing creepypasta stories ever written.

 

[Govt Mule]

George was way ahead of his time....

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The issue is that so many "good folks" are totally propagandized and brainwashed about "The King's Men" being somehow superior to the subjects, based on old tyrannical feudal systems and rules, and forget about how we started a new country so "all men could be equal". Folks forget we aren't supposed to be serfs and slaves hoping our betters don't do bad things to us.

King's Men / Uniform Hangers / Police/ military / government officials / anybody else are no better and no worse than any other citizen and deserve no less or more rights or protection than anyone else.

The immediate answer is to tell Trump to pound sand and stop pandering.
He would be well off shutting his piehole about that stuff until he fixes the unaccountability of the Uniform Hangers and government as a whole.

The long form answer of the correct solution is that there must be equal justice for everyone.
Regardless of the status/occupation/race/sexuality/gender/ability/mental status etc. of the "perpetrator" or the "victim".

There should be NO "extra special people" or "extra special occupations" in the eyes of official justice and law.

The standards of what is allowed should also be the same regardless. (This also means all that B.S. about "hate crimes" laws are also invalid".

The "good police" are easily protected just the same as the "good citizens", since they are essentially nothing different just having a different job.

If you wind up harming or killing one of the police, well you can go to court and tell it to the jury just the same as if you did the same to any other citizen, with the same range of punishments available as for any other citizen, no less, no more. The same burden of proof as would be on the police, to proved you acted lawfully and had no reasonable choice but to do as you did (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If the police wind up harming or killing someone, they get to go to court the same way any other citizen would have to, and tell it to the jury, with the same range of punishments, the same burden of proof and the same burden to prove they acted lawfully, and had no reasonable choice but to do what they did. (or convince the jury well the person really had it coming and I did the world a favour).

If a local Grand Jury is allowed to look at the evidence and dismiss a case against a citizen for something because the facts appear to be so overwhelming in their favour, then as long as they use the exact same standards, the same could apply to the police since the police have the same right as everybody else to not be killed or injured (including not by the police).

If you are worried about endless frivolous lawsuits, well then change the laws to be that before anyone can file a civil suit, it also has to go to a Grand Jury and they can see the information and decide if there is possible merit to it or if it's just pretty cut and dry and nope out you go, no case. That would need to apply pretty much exactly the same to the Police and everyone as it is to the Citizens.

The overlying and overwhelming problem of the "good folks" allowing the government to become a tyranny and oppress the citizens because they spent so long gleefully forging chains they thought would only be used on "those people we don't like" isn't going away like maybe ever. "The Good" people never ever seem to ever understand proper freedom (the founding of our country is a start example of the blindness of "the good folks")

The consequential problem of the corrupt / unaccountable Uniform Hangers is not something easily solved until the good folks have had enough and are willing to stop licking boots and get up off their knees That's not happening anytime soon...

Now I totally agree there are very many good police.
I also argue that in the end you pretty much always have to have some form of government and some form of "police" in one way or another once you move beyond a small tight knit tribe.
I think the police should be treated with respect and courtesy, the same as every citizen should be treated.

If you don't have Police, you will eventually have "police" with another name and citizens dishing out their own brand of justice and law gets really bad really fast if it becomes the norm instead of the rare case.


Something some folks might want to ponder on is, quite often on SH here how many folks are all either good with or cheering for wiping out Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs or whatever?
Most of whom are just simple backwards folks trying to live life in whatever rotten place they happen to be born into.

What is the usual excuse on SH for being good with mass killing and genocide of them all?
Well yes only a couple "bad apples" did the bad deeds, but the people allowed it, protected them, supported them, didn't stop it and didn't overthrow their governments...

Animal Farm was required reading when I was in school along with 1984. It wasn't when my children went to school so I bought copies for them.

 

[Rthur]

Pronouns: Was/Were


R

 

[Fx51LP308]

The issue is that so many "good folks" are totally propagandized and brainwashed about "The King's Men" being somehow superior to the subjects, based on old tyrannical feudal systems and rules, and forget about how we started a new country so "all men could be equal". Folks forget we aren't supposed to be serfs and slaves hoping our betters don't do bad things to us.

King's Men / Uniform Hangers / Police/ military / government officials / anybody else are no better and no worse than any other citizen and deserve no less or more rights or protection than anyone else.

I totally understand and agree. And, believe it or not, I also feel that "The King's Men" are not superior. They are "equal" (or are supposed to be) to us. They just have a certain job to do. Unfortunately, this particular job is often at odds with our sense of freedom and liberty. What other job allows it's employees to deprive the citizenry of "life, liberty & Property" and where the only "Due Process of Law" is an instantaneous brain impulse in the employee's head? Trust me, I totally get that. But, again, what's a viable alternative that would work, today?

If we really want to get back to the point of where our society was. right after "The Revolutionary War," and the freedoms we enjoyed at that point, we'll have to be ready, willing and able to initiate another one! Are we? Can we handle all the shedding of that "red liquid?" And, is it even possible to do it the same way, given the present population and the sophistication of weaponry, etc.? I tend to think the Founding fathers had a bit of an advantage as the society as a whole wasn't all that large and the weapons not as "destructive," relatively. Now? Imagine if the Founding Fathers had "Nukes," and a large enough population to require them.

Ask yourself, how did the new post-revolutionary society handle LE, crime and criminals... It's not like they didn't have those problems, right? Maybe not as much/severe, but they did have them.

The immediate answer is to tell Trump to pound sand and stop pandering.
He would be well off shutting his piehole about that stuff until he fixes the unaccountability of the Uniform Hangers and government as a whole.

The long form answer of the correct solution is that there must be equal justice for everyone.

So, how do you "enforce" that? Because it's human nature for some to think they're superior to others. Is it right? Absolutely not. But it is reality.
If you want to ensure the society is equal, you'll have to keep those "Superior sumbitches" in check. How do you do that?

Regardless of the status/occupation/race/sexuality/gender/ability/mental status etc. of the "perpetrator" or the "victim".

There should be NO "extra special people" or "extra special occupations" in the eyes of official justice and law.

And that was what I was trying to do with my "justice factor..." as a "first step" at least. I attempted to strip away the "inertial motion" from the "victim" (i.e. the victim receiving "more" justice because of who they are or what they did) and put it squarely back onto the defendant and their motives. Punishment should always be about what the defendant did and why. Not to whom they did it. And the other part of my justice factor is just that. "Justice." By doing things like murdering LEOs or judges or witnesses, etc., one is showing a compete and utter disrespect for Justice. And it's that disrespect for Justice that, to me, makes these crimes worth of being an aggravating factor... not who the victims were.

I guess it comes down to how you feel about Justice and how strong are your feelings.

The standards of what is allowed should also be the same regardless. (This also means all that B.S. about "hate crimes" laws are also invalid".

The "good police" are easily protected just the same as the "good citizens", since they are essentially nothing different just having a different job.

Agreed. Unfortunately, society doesn't see it that way. They hoist LEOs on a pedestal. And, maybe, LE has "engineered" that sentiment via their media presence, etc. But it is, what it is.

If you want to compare it with something, look at the Military. With the exception of the Viet-Nam era, how does society feel about the avg. Soldier (not the top Brass)? I think the fact that the Military aren't supposed to take actions against the US Citizenry is a huge factor. Where they ever had to (read: Kent State), they were treated by our society, just like LE.

The consequential problem of the corrupt / unaccountable Uniform Hangers is not something easily solved until the good folks have had enough and are willing to stop licking boots and get up off their knees That's not happening anytime soon...

Agreed. Again, not unless/until the citizenry is ready to do RV2.0 with today's parameters in mind.

Now I totally agree there are very many good police.
I also argue that in the end you pretty much always have to have some form of government and some form of "police" in one way or another once you move beyond a small tight knit tribe.
I think the police should be treated with respect and courtesy, the same as every citizen should be treated.

If you don't have Police, you will eventually have "police" with another name and citizens dishing out their own brand of justice and law gets really bad really fast if it becomes the norm instead of the rare case.

Again, chaos and anarchy. And that has a fairly close chance of happening if LEA;s "de-fund themselves" by quitting en-masse. I hope we're all ready.

Something some folks might want to ponder on is, quite often on SH here how many folks are all either good with or cheering for wiping out Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs or whatever?
Most of whom are just simple backwards folks trying to live life in whatever rotten place they happen to be born into.

I'm not in favor of wiping out anyone. Not unless they want to wipe me or mine out! Again, I do reserve the right to HD/SD. Otherwise, I would hope that the world's populations could get along, but I know that's not possible, given the Human Nature of "Superiority" and the need to defend/enforce that. It then becomes a matter of "threat assessment" and dealing with those threats.

What is the usual excuse on SH for being good with mass killing and genocide of them all?
Well yes only a couple "bad apples" did the bad deeds, but the people allowed it, protected them, supported them, didn't stop it and didn't overthrow their governments...

Once again, is our society ready for that overthrow? Are we ready for RV 2.0? Because I think that's what will be necessary to do the "equality reset" you're looking for. And, given the size in population now vs, colonial times, I'm not sure that's even possible. So, what to we do? We try to do things on an incremental basis, just like my justice factor.

 

[Long_Action]

Do Fauci next, then the Epstein clients... and so on! And... fuck this 30-06 bullshit. If I have to take the day off work to be part of a firing squad, give me a pellet rifle. I've got nowhere to be for the rest of the day.

 

[fx77]

Animal Farm was required reading when I was in school along with 1984. It wasn't when my children went to school so I bought copies for them.

Don't forget Brave New World and Animal Farm for the kids

 

[Fx51LP308]

Don't forget Brave New World and Animal Farm for the kids

There's an animated version of Animal Farm on YouTube. It was animated by the same WB studio animators that did Looney Tunes.

 

[ChezJfrey]

Don't forget Brave New World and Animal Farm for the kids

Yeah, for me, we were required to read 1984 and Brave New World in school (mid to late 80s). Animal Farm was not part of any curriculum, but my dad said he had to read that when he was in school, and since I was now familiar with Orwell and 1984, I then got my own copy of Animal Farm and read that on my own. My kids' schools (well, before they ditched out and were homeschooled) did not have any of these 3 on their reading lists, despite being the same schools I had gone to when I was young.

 

[Holliday]