Suppressors First 1911, need advice

Cerebus

Cerebus

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 3, 2008
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Frederick, MD
#1
So I am ready to buy my first 1911. I was initially going to go el cheapo and get an RIA, but decided to spend a little more and get a quality (I hope) pistol. I've decided on an S&W and I think I have it narrowed down to these two:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/s...playErrorView_Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/s...playErrorView_Y

Im seeing them for around $800 and $1050 respectively. So my first question, is the S&W a good choice in general? I've read lots of good, very little bad. Second, is the Pro model worth the extra? From what I'm reading it has a nicer trigger, the fiber optic sights, ambi safety, crowned muzzle, and more ...which makes me think the extra cost will be worth it for what I'm getting.

As a 1911 newb, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
#2
Re: First 1911, need advice

I might seriously consider a Dan Wesson instead if it's the convenience and relative thriftiness of a factory gun that you're looking for.
 
#7
Re: First 1911, need advice

Here is the truth about 1911s.... they are a hobbyist gun. As a general rule, they are high maintenance and low on reliability. Everytime I see malfunctions on the range/IDPA match, it's most likely a 1911. We are not talking about Rock Island 1911, mostly mid grade Springfield/SW/Kimber.

If you want a serious home defense/duty .45, might be more cost efficient and sensible to get something else, consider a M&P 45 worked on by Bowie tactical runs about 700 or a HK45 about 1100-1200. If you only want a 1911 just to have one, SW/KImber/Sprinfield/Sig same price range=about the same "quality"
 
#8
Re: First 1911, need advice

An HK45 should be under $1000.

But back to the 1911. Good choice in not going cheap. But be aware that most of the stock pistols sill contain MIM parts. If you plan on going this route and want a truly reliable gun plan on replacing some stuff.
 
#9
Re: First 1911, need advice

What are you looking for in a pistol? What's the intended use and budget?
Sure its nice to have a pistol with all the bells and whistles, but is it enough to justify the cost depending on your budget.
You cant go wrong as long as you go with a reputable company and remember that you can always easily add features to a 1911 if need be.
I say figure out the use and let that drive your choice along with your budget. JMHO

+1 on Kimber
 
#10
Re: First 1911, need advice

not_this_shit_again.jpg


If I can still read, I don't recall the thread being titled "talk me out of my decision to get a 1911".....


I love the "1911's aren't reliable" and "MIM parts" comments that always pop up.
If a production pistol doesn't have MIM parts these days they are stampings. MIM parts rarely break (if ever)-the issue is an internet fiasco.

Most 1911's break down for the same reason most Harleys break down-because the owner has customized something or other and it doesn't fit witht he intended parts and pieces.
I'm guilty making both have problems personally.

I also have a 3" scary accurate Micro Compact that runs port up, port down, upside down in my weak hand holding it loosely enough I'm almost dropping it. Oh, and it runs FGMM WC's and CorBon flying ashtrays just fine too....

Cerebrus-rock on with your badd self, 1911's kick ass. I would personsslly pass on SW's and the like.

Springers are one of the only production 1911's that have not been dicked up with firing pin safeties and the. They run great, and in case they don't they have excellent CS. They are also a quality platform that down the line you can build on.
 
#11
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cerebus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I am ready to buy my first 1911. I was initially going to go el cheapo and get an RIA, but decided to spend a little more and get a quality (I hope) pistol.

As a 1911 newb, any advice would be greatly appreciated. </div></div>
Since you didn't specify budget or intended usage and did say you didn't like the SA Range Officer, here are some thoughts.

< $700 Springfield Armory "NM serial #" Mil-Spec
< $900 Colt S70 repro - current manufacture
< $1.5k Dan Wesson (2010 or later) or Springfield Armory
< $2k Ed Brown or Les Baer* Crazy John

The "NM" Mil-Spec will have been finished in the US. It will come with a one-piece barrel and match bushing. I believe they are hard to find. It appears the Range Officer is being made in that fashion. The Colt will make a great base gun and nothing has been messed with from the factory so it's a blank slate. However, it will need some work to get where you want it (once you figure out what that is). Both should have good resale should you decide you don't like 1911's.

You will need to have a good idea of what features you want for the last four before buying. Maybe someone at your local range/club will let you try some out. The DW and EB will have the advantage of coming with Ed Brown grip safeties which accommodate a very high grip.

Yes it's crazy to spend more than $1k for a first 1911. However, if you catch the bug, you may end up spending considerably more either modifying one just the way you want or buying a second one with the features you desire. There is also a huge selection of models between $1000 and $1500.

I would skip used until you have more experience or a mentor to help. Since they're so easy to mess with, you don't always know what you're getting until it's too late...

Try this thread 1911 Reviews over on GlockTalk for an in-depth description of most models on the market from a single owner, start at post #17.

*I would not get a Les Baer as a first 1911. However, the bang per buck is substantial.

HTH
 
#12
Re: First 1911, need advice

1911's are one of those things like bolt guns people get into and then modify alot or have work done to. for that reason i will always reccomend guns that smiths like to work on which is mainly colt and springer now if you find a gun built on a caspian or STI frame they are also good and alot of really good smiths are building their "house" guns off those frames.

for a resale point, i would stick with colt primarily followed by springer as a second choice. But thats more of a purist point. i am firmly behind buy once cry once. Kimber's quality has fallen off a bit as of late, their older stuff is REALLY good although kimber is NOT known for their customer service. Springer is reknown for having incredible customer service and their custom shop is top notch. I would put the springer custom shop up against just about any smith for the money, the guns i have seen from them have been awesome.

Dan wesson from everything i've seen puts out some really nice blasters too and is another good choice.
 
#13
Re: First 1911, need advice

I would get the RIA if its your first 1911. I have one in 38 super that is filling a hole until one of you smucks responds to my WTB 38 super colt ad.

Quality is Meh, but it works 100% of the time. Bone stock with no mods. I have several colts and a couple kimbers. For some reason the kimbers dont feel like my colts and not sure why.
for the price diff between the RIA and what I have paid for my last 2 LRM Colt series 70's you can buy 1k rounds and get some good trigger practice on the platform.

1911's are great pistols if you know a bit about them. They are however not like a glock as far as pick up a mag from anywhere and go run it and expect 100% functioning. Most problems with the 1911 platform come from 3 items Magazine, Extractor, and Dremels.
 
#14
Re: First 1911, need advice

I guess some more details would have been helpful. I am definitely buying a 1911, so no point in talking me out of it.
smile.gif
My budget is in the $1000 range, but I could spend a little more ($200?) if that gets me a good jumping in quality and/or features. The only purpose for it right now will be a range gun.
 
#15
Re: First 1911, need advice

Springer TRP. if you don't like it down the road it will be much easier to sell.............

CDNN had NIB for 1299 or less. other dealers may be able to get better...

Dan Wesson? Fusion? other options. Baer Premier II
 
#16
Re: First 1911, need advice

1911s not reliable...My first one was a Remington Rand made in 1945. My Dad bought it well used and I have put thousands of rounds through it. It is now semi retired in a stand on my desk. Since that first one, several Series 70 Colts have been added to the lot and a couple have been customized. Have Springfields, Kimbers,STIs and Dan Wessons. The only 1911s I have had problems with are used ones I purchased that the owner said just would not function. After taking off all of the self-gunsmithed crap that guys had put on these things, they ran like a Singer sewing machine. Some form of 1911 is on my hip most of the time I am up and out and about. They have served me well while in the military and in civilian life.
Get what you can afford right now and learn to shoot it well. You may just decide that you do not need anything else.
 
#17
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the "1911's aren't reliable" and "MIM parts" comments that always pop up.</div></div>

Internet experts, Sobr. You can learn all you need about any subject without ever leaving the comfort of your own home.
 
#18
Re: First 1911, need advice

never had a malfunction with scores of different brand 1911's ive owned over the years. reliability my ass. ive seen other folks have gads of shooter induced problems but thats not an engineering fault. anyway my 2 cents is never buy smith and wesson anything simply on principle. they cave to libs. that and ive never really seen them to do anything original in recent history. bunch of followers they are.
 
#19
Re: First 1911, need advice

I disagree, i shoot my Kimber Classic in USPSA singlestack. In the last 2 years I have run 4000 rounds through it without a single stoppage. One of the most overlooked component is the Magazine. There are too many magazine choices, and this is an often neglected component.

The bottom line:
Clean, quality, well maintained mags= flawless performance
cheap, dirty, and old mags=problems that people blame on the 1911

I personally run 8rd Chip McCormick Power + mags and love them





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BX1129</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the truth about 1911s.... they are a hobbyist gun. As a general rule, they are high maintenance and low on reliability. Everytime I see malfunctions on the range/IDPA match, it's most likely a 1911. We are not talking about Rock Island 1911, mostly mid grade Springfield/SW/Kimber.

If you want a serious home defense/duty .45, might be more cost efficient and sensible to get something else, consider a M&P 45 worked on by Bowie tactical runs about 700 or a HK45 about 1100-1200. If you only want a 1911 just to have one, SW/KImber/Sprinfield/Sig same price range=about the same "quality" </div></div>
 
#20
Re: First 1911, need advice

I have never had an issue with my 1911 but I've had my Glock stove-pipe a couple times and my XD did it quite often. I've ran a few different types of ball and hollow point through my 1911 and it never had a single issue. I sold the damn thing a couple months ago to fund a bolt gun build. Turns out I should have kept it and I'm gonna get another one asap. I will take a 1911 any day over any of my other pistols. Mine was a Kimber and I'm with a couple of the other guys when I say I'd stick with Colt, Springfield, Kimber or Sig. I've not shot a S&W 1911 but I've never been too impressed with anything they have made in the recent years aside from revolvers. The prices are all pretty close to the same and between the 4 above named manufacturers you shouldn't have trouble finding one with the options you want.
 
#21
Re: First 1911, need advice

Anyone who says 1911 isn't a reliable gun doesn't know a whole lot about weapons. Any malfunctions come from what everone else have already said.....mags, extractors, or poorly shaped barrel ramps.

I own several of them. My favorite is my custom built Fusion .45 Tac-5....I picked everything out on it like buying a hand built car. About 2k and a six month wait and you get the gun of your dreams made just for you. Go cheap = expect no so perfect performance, tricky mags, what ammo it eats relaiably, extractors, etc. Go up just $300-$400 and you can get into Springfields custom line up...

I got plenty of pics so feel free to see them or range pics & targets.
 
#22
Re: First 1911, need advice

Although I have seen tons of different problems and failures with 1911's from nearly all the popular manufacturers out there, I still wouldn't say that is the number one problem. Honestly, the number one problem I've seen is a lack of understanding by the user, and a corresponding lack of proper maintenance and preventative maintenance by those same people. I look at the 1911 as much more of a custom built high performance machine than a lot of the CNC'd, CAD-designed, mass produced stuff you typically see. It's like giving a 911 GT3 to the average daily driver. Don't be surprised when they blow the motor.

Even though the 1911 is much more of a hand-fitted design that doesn't lend itself well to mass production, and that can be much more finicky, I still say the number one problem is the end user not having a clue about the platform and what they are doing. Honestly, it is not hard at all to do regular maintenance and preventative maintenance on a 1911. Worst case, even if you get a factory defect part or something out of spec (improper extractor tension for example, seen that a bunch), a knowledgeable user can replace or adjust components back in spec to some degree. The problem is, lots of end users aren't capable of running anything more complicated than a Glock. The funny thing is the sheer number of people I have seen that can't even properly lubricate their guns! I swear, there was one week where I had to lubricate something like 14 or 15 1911's for people in a 4 day period because NONE of them had any lube on their guns.
wink.gif
 
#23
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig_Fiend</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Even though the 1911 is much more of a hand-fitted design that doesn't lend itself well to mass production, </div></div>
Tell that to my re-arsenaled Colt with a slide from Remington Rand and internals from a big bin....

When StJohn's design is stuck to where the moving parts are concerned a 1911 is actually pretty hard to mess up.
 
#25
Re: First 1911, need advice

Check out this 18 page thread I started on 1911forum.com. I got too busy to keep up with it and another gentlemen took over. Of course the results are highly objective and only as honest as the folks that reply. That said, there are enough replies (both in people and number of firearms (in the thousands)), that it gives what is likely a fairly accurate picture. The question I posted was for out of the box reliability, all semi-autos, both 1911 and non-1911. I asked for data on newly purchased guns only, not second owner. I asked people to list how many guns they'd owned of a type, and of those, how many had experienced a non-ammo induced malfunction during the first 300 rounds.

Some would think that the results would be skewed because it is a 1911 forum. I found that wasn't the case. People were very open to reporting 1911 problems (one major manufacturer has consistently held a 40+% failure rate...starts with a "K").

Keep in mind that out of the box reliability is only one of many traits of a pistol to be concerned with. Quality of fit, quality of parts, accuracy, longevity, etc. are also very important. Keeping all those in mind, I think your choice to go with a S&W 1911 for a factory gun is outstanding (their history in the new 1911 market speaks for itself). Put it this way, not to sound like a braggard, but I own a full custom 1911 on a Caspian frame and slide, with Wilson, Ed Brown, and Caspian internals, built by the Springfield Custom Shop to my specs. With parts and labor it is a 3,000 dollar gun. If I were to buy a factory 1911 in the sub-1,000 range it would be a S&W hands down. In the 1.5-2k range it would be a Les Baer.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=252140
 
#26
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BX1129</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the truth about 1911s.... they are a hobbyist gun. As a general rule, they are high maintenance and low on reliability. Everytime I see malfunctions on the range/IDPA match, it's most likely a 1911. We are not talking about Rock Island 1911, mostly mid grade Springfield/SW/Kimber.

If you want a serious home defense/duty .45, might be more cost efficient and sensible to get something else, consider a M&P 45 worked on by Bowie tactical runs about 700 or a HK45 about 1100-1200. If you only want a 1911 just to have one, SW/KImber/Sprinfield/Sig same price range=about the same "quality" </div></div>

This is DEFINITELY not a guy you want firearms advice from. But then his advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Also, notice his advice, a M&P .45 "worked on" by...if this is his first choice, why would it need to be "worked on?"
Tell me BX what other handgun just celebrated it 100th birthday? John Browning's 1911 were killing bad guys and protecting our nation before Gaston Glock was born.
Tell you unreliable 1911 stories at the bar, not where people who know better might hear you.
 
#27
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BX1129</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the truth about 1911s.... they are a hobbyist gun. As a general rule, they are high maintenance and low on reliability. Everytime I see malfunctions on the range/IDPA match, it's most likely a 1911. We are not talking about Rock Island 1911, mostly mid grade Springfield/SW/Kimber.

If you want a serious home defense/duty .45, might be more cost efficient and sensible to get something else, consider a M&P 45 worked on by Bowie tactical runs about 700 or a HK45 about 1100-1200. If you only want a 1911 just to have one, SW/KImber/Sprinfield/Sig same price range=about the same "quality" </div></div>

Yeah, I've never seen any jams or issues at comps with HK's, Glocks, M&P's or any other make/manufacture. Comps aren't a good place to gauge the quality of a gun b/c guys usually use reloads and have them way loaded way down. They usually have messed with about every part of the gun they can to boot. Heck, you even see it in production class's if they are known not to check.

If you want a defensive gun, buy it the way it was meant to work from the factory and leave it that way.
 
#28
Re: First 1911, need advice

You are free to think what you want, but you have not rebuke my point about 1911 being unreliable IF you are using it for duty/hard use. 1911 is a decent design and it has its (historic, trigger pull, fast reset etc) values, but if you want to tell me that it's NOT maintenance heavy for a modern combat pistol, I would love to know your credentials/sources because you "know" better.

M&P don't really have to be "worked on," but BOWIE tactical just makes them better, esp the trigger pull. But this is besides the point.

I might not be a top tier operator like some on this forum, but I am a little familiar with people who have run 1911s as a duty firearm and have given them up for something else. There is NOT a modern pistol in existence that needs replacement of recoil spring around 2000 rounds, firing pin around every 5,000 rds, and various other parts within the 5k round mark. Saying 1911 is the top dog because it's been around for 100 years is like saying you should ride in a M113 instead of MRAP.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pfcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BX1129</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the truth about 1911s.... they are a hobbyist gun. As a general rule, they are high maintenance and low on reliability. Everytime I see malfunctions on the range/IDPA match, it's most likely a 1911. We are not talking about Rock Island 1911, mostly mid grade Springfield/SW/Kimber.

If you want a serious home defense/duty .45, might be more cost efficient and sensible to get something else, consider a M&P 45 worked on by Bowie tactical runs about 700 or a HK45 about 1100-1200. If you only want a 1911 just to have one, SW/KImber/Sprinfield/Sig same price range=about the same "quality" </div></div>

This is DEFINITELY not a guy you want firearms advice from. But then his advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Also, notice his advice, a M&P .45 "worked on" by...if this is his first choice, why would it need to be "worked on?"
Tell me BX what other handgun just celebrated it 100th birthday? John Browning's 1911 were killing bad guys and protecting our nation before Gaston Glock was born.
Tell you unreliable 1911 stories at the bar, not where people who know better might hear you. </div></div>
 
#29
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the results are highly objective and only as honest as the folks that reply.</div></div>

Did you mean subjective?
 
#30
Re: First 1911, need advice

Buying a 1911 is no different than buying a car. Just because Yugo built crap doesn't mean all other makers produce crap. Let 20 or 30 other companies build Glocks and let's see what the reputation is in 10 years.
 
#31
Re: First 1911, need advice

I have several 1911's stright from the factory (Kimber, Les Baer) that eat everything and never had a problem. That is my 1911 experience.

If utter reliability is the need, get a revolver.
 
#32
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the results are highly objective and only as honest as the folks that reply.</div></div>

Did you mean subjective? </div></div>

I sure did. Thanks for the correction Eddie. I was in a rush on the way out the door when I wrote it.
smile.gif
 
#33
Re: First 1911, need advice

You can't go wrong with a Kimber TLE. If you have a little more money, the Springfield TRP is hard to beat. After that, its the Wilson Combat CQB or Nighthawk Custom GRP.

Buy good magazines. Wilson, Chip Mc Cormick or Metal Form work for me. You may need to have your smith adjust the extractor, tweak the trigger, and regulate the sights. If the gun comes with a Titanium firing pin get rid of it and replace it with a Chip McCormick SS version. The TRP has a firing mechanism lock, any good gunsmith can disable it. The Wilson has the Ti firing pin.

Make sure you shoot quality ammo too. No Wolf steel jacket crap at all. You can't go wrong with WW white box or buy a Dillon 550 and reload 230 gr FMJ Magnus Bullets with 5.7 WW 231 and a WW LP primer. Taper crimp the ammo and you are gtg.

As far as reliability is concerned, the 1911 runs well but requires cleaning and lubrication. If you don't want to do this, buy a Sig, Glock or HK. The upside is the 1911 has great ergonomics and can be tuned to provide a great trigger pull. The accurized versions are extremely accuarate with good ammo.

I like my 1911 but also have several Sigs, Glocks and Beretta's. My SHTF handgun is custom combat Norinco 1911 customized by APG 100 smith Glen Tanaka. Shoots great. I have shot almost 50,000 rounds through it and have had it rebuilt several times. New barrel, reweld frame and remachine, and ready to go.

I also use a Wilson Combat CQB as a back up. Best out of box 45 I ever had was a Springfield TRP. Really need to buy another one.

Good Luck!
 
#34
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I've never seen any jams or issues at comps with HK's, Glocks, M&P's or any other make/manufacture. Comps aren't a good place to gauge the quality of a gun b/c guys usually use reloads and have them way loaded way down. </div></div>

This is a great point. Not comps exactly, but at our work training days our MP5's and Glock 22's crap the bed frequently due to bad range ammo. And both these guns are known for being "reliable". Ammo has a huge impact on reliability. I personally don't use reloads in any caliber, rifle or pistol. Yes, I pay more and shoot less. That is the downside but I just don't do reloads. I'm not saying my position is right and it's dumb to reload, don't get me wrong. But as Clint says, "a man's got to know his limitations". Reloading is mine. I stick with decent factory ammo for all my guns.
 
#35
Re: First 1911, need advice

As an added note: my uber reliability take to hell and back pistol is a Glock 21 with a Light/laser combo, KKM barrel, tungsten guide rod, 2.5. disconnector and Heinie Straight Eight sights. No need to clean, just keep shooting with Glock +2 mags. Lube is old engine oil. Like torturing the pistol to see if it ever stop. Never quits. Keeps shooting and shooting. Fugly IMHO.
 
#36
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emorse4487</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is almost comical. S&W makes GOOD 1911 style pistols; they aren't the best and they certainly aren't the worst. Anyone who tells you differently is blowing smoke up your ass.

The "E" series is essentially a Standard model with some lipstick. Scalloped slide serrations, coarse checkered front strap, and upgraded grips are the main difference.</div></div>

Actually, the lack of the awful Swartz FP safety is huge, as is the change in extractors. The original has fleas, and hopefully the e-series model will be better (lower on the breach face, with more purchase).

The fact that you highlighted the exterior visual changes as being the most significant difference, and completely failed to mention the internal, huge operational changes, makes your comments about this thread being comical rather ironic.
 
#37
Re: First 1911, need advice

Cerebus, dont listen to all the bullshit. If you want a 1911 get a 1911.
I've personally owned a few from Kimber,SA and Wilson Combat and never had a problem. All the "non reliable" and "hobbyist" gun shit aint nothing more than personal opinions because everyone is biased. Hell, all weapons require some maintenance. Thats just the nature of things. It just takes a better understanding of your particular weapon to keep it running tip top.
The comment about it being "unreliable IF you are using it for duty/hard use" is retarded and vague. Theres plenty of LEO's using them and there has got to be a reason why the Marine Corps still issues them to its Force recon and MSOB companies. Although, I must warn you that if you do put it to "hard use" like blocking RPG's or ninja swords, expect to replace your "MIM" parts.
Regardless, I asked what your intended use was and your response was a range gun, so just go with something within your budget and you'll be happy. I started with a $500 SA which was later worked on by Jim Hoag and its now one of the best pistols I own and carry.
Hope this helps ya.

 
#38
Re: First 1911, need advice

oh my god you 1911 fanboys you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. MARSOC and fore recon gets guns that are completely rebuilt and get serviced every 5-10k rounds plus they have trained armorers from crane in their teams that replace parts as needed. LAPD and HRT both used/use 1911's and have the same replacement policies and if you think they are stock off the shelf guns you are insane as well. i'm taking nothing away from the platform there is a reason its still kicking 100 years later. but if your goin to use it hard you need to know what you are getting yourself into. i have posted numerous times on these freaking 1911 threads from people who have more rounds down range with 1911's then 8 of you combined saying things about the MIM parts, service life, reliability and you don't say shit but a couple guys say the same things and you jump all over their case. I have a 1911 being built and am buying 2 more, but i also shoot glock, HK, sig doesn't matter they all have their use and their faults. stop being cult fanboys and open your fucking eyes. jesus christ this is the same thread we see time and time again.
 
#39
Re: First 1911, need advice

Hilton Yam

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A common question that I am asked is "What should I buy for my first 1911?" After they wade through a long dissertation that starts with "Get an M&P 45..." or the other one that starts with "Get a Glock 17...", we end up back at the original question. The statements I typically hear that preface the conversation include:

"I just want an entry level gun..."

"I don't want to spend too much..."

"It is just for the range..."
"I saw a great bargain from xxx brand, it has lots of cool looking features and looks like it is just as good as the guns from xxx big name brand which cost 3x as much."



If you really want a 1911, prepare to jump into the deep end of the pool. There is no dipping of the toe in the 1911 swimming pool, either dive all the way in or do not waste your time and money. There simply are no true bargains to be had, and the $3-400 gun that "looks just like" the big name brand gun is just that - a lookalike only. If you only fire a few hundred rounds a year out of the gun at 7 yards, then you may be very happy with whatever you buy. However, should you ever decide to use the gun for a training class or any other serious applications, be prepared for that gun to let you down at some point.

There is a reason the big name 1911s cost what they do, and it is not just some voodoo to line the pockets of their manufacturers. It is a very expensive proposition to make the 1911, and savings are only had when you cut corners somewhere. These corners are typically cut by using less expensive small parts and skipping fitting operations. When Kimber came on the market in the 90's, they boasted match accuracy and custom features at production prices. Stop for a moment and look again at the cost saving steps outlined above. Kimber introduced the wide use of MIM small parts, which allow complex shapes to be made to close tolerances at a lower per part cost. Done properly, these parts can work well and last a long time. They brought CNC technology to the mix and were able to manufacture the slide, frame, and barrel to closer tolerances, reducing or eliminating the fitting required to improve accuracy. They did it right, and a new 1911 powerhouse was born. However, when they started looking to revisit the cost cutting steps is where they ended up stepping on it with their small parts quality and QC.

Why not buy a cheap import just to start out and learn the 1911? I would instead ask why you would want to just throw your money away. Instead of buying a gussied up cheapo that has no real hopes of growth, why not buy a low end no frills gun from a reputable manufacturer? My top picks for such a starter gun is the Springfield GI and Milspec 5" Government format guns, which can be had for around $5-600 if you shop around. For about $100 with smart shopping, you can also get one of the new manufacture Colt 1991A1 Government Models. Don't get one of the older ones from the 90's, it may or may not be a good deal if you don't know what to look for. If it turns out that you don't like the 1911 platform, a quality brand name gun will have enduring resale value, while the import knockoff will certainly not retain much value. If you end up falling in love with the 1911, then you can hang on to your quality brand gun and build on it. Spend the money once, and spend it well. </div></div>
 
#40
Re: First 1911, need advice

Larry Vickers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7. How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?
That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</div></div>

if you just want a 1911 go for it, its your money and your choice but negating all the advice you get about your perfect gun is stupid and makes you ignorant.
 
#41
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh my god you 1911 fanboys you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. MARSOC and fore recon gets guns that are completely rebuilt and get serviced every 5-10k rounds plus they have trained armorers from crane in their teams that replace parts as needed. LAPD and HRT both used/use 1911's and have the same replacement policies and if you think they are stock off the shelf guns you are insane as well. i'm taking nothing away from the platform there is a reason its still kicking 100 years later. but if your goin to use it hard you need to know what you are getting yourself into. i have posted numerous times on these freaking 1911 threads from people who have more rounds down range with 1911's then 8 of you combined saying things about the MIM parts, service life, reliability and you don't say shit but a couple guys say the same things and you jump all over their case. I have a 1911 being built and am buying 2 more, but i also shoot glock, HK, sig doesn't matter they all have their use and their faults. stop being cult fanboys and open your fucking eyes. jesus christ this is the same thread we see time and time again. </div></div>
No one said that the weapons issued to the marines were COTS. Those are built by armorers out in Quantico,VA. I just wasnt going to sit here and brake down the specs of a meusoc when the guy just wants a pistol to shoot at the range. I just made a general statement to the comment about 1911's being unreliable and hobbyist guns. No ones being a so called fanboy here so grab a beer and relax. where both saying the same thing. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">ALL</span></span> firearms have their strengths and shortcomings. Thing is, the guy already made up his mind about buying a 1911, so lets guide him to make an informed decision before buying instead of shitting all over his choice.
The post title says it all. Im sure if he wanted a M&P or HK he would have mentioned it right? so lets stop this pissing contest and give this dude some info he can use.

Had to come back and add this.
As of now LAPD is using commercially available 1911's. On November of '09 they implemented the 1911 pilot program. Under this program, members of SWAT and SIS are authorized to deploy 1911s' after a 2 day pistol reintegration course.
In 2010 this program was expanded to all expert shooting officers.
SWAT, SIS and the LAPD Trainng unit, Set the spec's for the 1911 pistols and only Kimber,SA and Colt were reapproved.
 
#42
Re: First 1911, need advice

Holy shit, I didn't mean to stir up the hornets nest.
laugh.gif


I <span style="font-weight: bold">am</span> getting a 1911, it's not an if. Why? Because I want one and can have one.
smile.gif
It won't be used for primary home defense or CCW, I have that covered with several of the aforementioned "combat" guns that (for me) go bang every time. It won't be used for competition any time in the near future. My only concern was about the quality and value, bang for the buck, of the couple models I had narrowed it down to. After reading several of the threads some of you referenced, I don't think my choices would be a mistake, but I haven't made up my mind yet and will continue to research. Thanks to everyone for the information so far. Please keep it coming.
 
#45
Re: First 1911, need advice

don't take it the wrong way, cerberus more power to ya. buy one thats the beauty of it. i'm against guys discounting solid advice because their gun is infallable. like i said i love the weapon, but honestly if i had to get in a gunfight right now i'd want my p226 cuz i have shot probably 20k rounds through the one i have now and its been amazing. i have 1 1911 with 2 more incoming they are awesome, but i do just want to give guys solid advice. they are addicting so if/when you have them built the big time smiths like certain ones (colt, springer, STI, caspian). Hilton yam just did a post on the new Smith and wesson and seems to like it if you look up his 10-8 blog he's done a couple reviews on it so far. might be worth reading.
 
#46
Re: First 1911, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hilton yam just did a post on the new Smith and wesson and seems to like it if you look up his 10-8 blog he's done a couple reviews on it so far. might be worth reading. </div></div>

I'll start looking for his review. Thanks!
 
#49
Re: First 1911, need advice

I've had very few issues with any of my 1911's. Springfield, Colts and even one the first Kimbers produced. I would suggest a 12-1300$ Springfield as a starter. Get familiar with it and shoot the piss out of it. You will either like the platform or get something else. They are a challenging weapon to learn. Maintenance being the least enjoyable. Glocks are for the mechanically challenged, a good system non the less.
 
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