First bolt action rifle

[Tsarbomba]

Im not planning on pushing the limits of any of the guns. But im looking for a quality bolt action .308 20-24inch. Will be more of less a jack of all trades rifle. 400-500 yard shooter, hunting, and normal everyday shooting. All will kill deer, but not all will be sub moa at 400 yards. Looking for something thats smooth, and quality. So heres my list. Pardon my naive-ness in the selections.

-Browning xbolt
-Winchester 70 (newer model)
-Rem 700 SPS Tac
-Mossberg Patriot Laminate

Mossberg is cheapest at $425, and Browning & Winchester being around that $825 mark. Anyone prefer a certain rifle, or dislike something. Please share. Thanks

 

[MarkLeupold]

My dad has a Browning X-Bolt in .25-06, and I will say it is a very nice rifle. Detachable box mag, 60 degree bolt throw (also very polished and smooth bolt travel), crisp trigger if a little heavy for my taste. We've been seeing about MOA with factory Hornady ammunition.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[308pirate]

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/howa/howa-long-range-rifle/

Buy the rifle only, not the rifle/scope package

 

[patriot07]

If your budget goes up to $800, I'd buy a Tikka CTR and be done with it. Great trigger, smooth action, stupid accurate, good DBM system, 20" threaded barrel.

If your budget is less than that, I'd consider a Savage 10 FCP-SR. Can be had for around $450 with rebates.

Those, IMHO, are the most accuracy for the money that you're going to get. The Savage will be a little less refined, but either will likely out-shoot all 4 guns on your list. If accuracy isn't important, buy the cheapest one and be done with it. Even the Mossberg will shoot fairly well and they have a decent trigger. I don't personally see the point in $800 on the Browning or Winchester compared to the Tikka, Savage, or Mossberg.

308pirate's Howa suggestion is a good one too, except that it lacks the short barrel you're looking for. But Howa makes a nice rifle for the money.

 

[308pirate]

308pirate's Howa suggestion is a good one too, except that it lacks the short barrel you're looking for. But Howa makes a nice rifle for the money.

I missed that......Howa does make 20" barreled actions in 308 and 24" in 6.5Creed

Get them from Brownells, drop it in a KRG Bravo chassis (they will be out soon) and done.

If you can't wait for the Bravo chassis, get a KRG 180-Xray from Brownells and go.

 

[308pirate]

OP, there's a thread here reviewing the Howa Chassis Rifle (which might meet your budget if you shop around) and the accuracy you will see from that sample IS representative of the whole brand.

 

[Tsarbomba]

ok, thanks for link. Looks like I can buy just the action. Then order a Boyds stock. Good idea? Any real different between lightweight, standard and heavy barrel? Anyone have a preference?

 

[Maestro]

I'd go Tikka CTR (Compact Tactical Rifle) or other Tikka model for your needs, or a Howa over the ones you listed. The CTR has a stunning reputation; as does the Howa. The only gun in your list I don't have experience with is the X-Bolt but I'm fairly certain it can't be as good as the aforementioned as I've never heard it brought up except on hunting forums. It's Browning, I'm sure it's good though.

ok, thanks for link. Looks like I can buy just the action. Then order a Boyds stock. Good idea? Any real different between lightweight, standard and heavy barrel? Anyone have a preference?

Yes, big differences. I'd go Heavy barrel unless you're going to be toting the gun around for hunting a lot. Varmint/Heavy Barrels heat up slower and therefore allow you to shoot more while remaining more accurate. Pencil barrels like "Lightweights" heat up quickly and start to get whippy, causing your groups to open up faster. However, if you're going to be hunting, all you need is 1 shot after you've sighted it in.

The CTR an Howa's talked about all should have Heavy. They're Scope-and-Go rifles.

 

[308pirate]

ok, thanks for link. Looks like I can buy just the action. Then order a Boyds stock. Good idea? Any real different between lightweight, standard and heavy barrel? Anyone have a preference?

I'd rather buy a Bell & Carlson stock over a Boyd's any day and twice on Sunday.

If you can't or won't spring for a KRG, at least get this: https://www.stockysstocks.com/stock...etition-remington-700-short-action-stock.html

 

[patriot07]

I tried a Boyds and wasn't a big fan. I'd consider a B&C or something like one of the chassis options that 308p listed before if you go with Howa.

The Tikka CTR will leave you with a lot more stock options. McMillan has T3 CTR stocks on sale right now for $439 IIRC. Hard to beat that type of setup if you don't want a chassis. Of course the factory CTR stock isn't so bad that you have to swap it immediately either. I'm still running my CTR bone stock.

 

[Tsarbomba]

thanks again everyone. Rifle will be used 50/50 hunting & range. So my last question is this. How donthe Howa 1500 actions compare to the Bergera actions?

 

[patriot07]

I think the Bergara and Tikka actions are a definite step up from the Howa. Bergara and Tikka have created a bit of a new niche in the gun market - custom performance at non-custom prices. IMHO, Howa is still more of a budget option that performs better than anything in its price range, with the possible exceptions of Savage models 10/11 and the Ruger American. So we're kind of talking about apples and oranges when you start comparing Howa to Bergara/Tikka. None are bad options at their price point, as long as you don't over-spend on the Howa.

 

[Tsarbomba]

Thanks for reply. Ive been reading previous threads on the 6.5CM and I think ill give that a go over .308 this time. Dont think the 6.5CM is just tge new kid in town or fad. That said, bc I will be hunting with it, weight does matter. Think Ive narrowed it down to their hunting line in 6.5CM. Without googling Tikka & Howa with everyones recommendation, I wouldn’t have come accross Bergera. Thank you

 

[patriot07]

Thanks for reply. Ive been reading previous threads on the 6.5CM and I think ill give that a go over .308 this time. Dont think the 6.5CM is just tge new kid in town or fad. That said, bc I will be hunting with it, weight does matter. Think Ive narrowed it down to their hunting line in 6.5CM. Without googling Tikka & Howa with everyones recommendation, I wouldn’t have come accross Bergera. Thank you

What do you like about the Bergara more than Tikka? Just curious.

6.5 is a great all-around caliber for hunting, range work, etc.

 

[Tsarbomba]

Tikka doesn't offer any of the walnut stock options with 6.5CM. Where Bergera does. But both the Bergera Timber and Tikka Forest are are really sharp looking shooters

 

[308pirate]

I think the Bergara and Tikka actions are a definite step up from the Howa.

In what objective way? All three Howas I've owned have smoothed up to the point of being indistinguishable from a Tikka within 500 - 1000 cycles. Their accuracy is undeniable and objectively verifiable. So is their general machining: hardly a toolmark to be found anywhere in the three I have (and I know how and where to look).

Right out of the box Bergara actions offer nothing better than Howa, and Howa catches up to Tikka in smoothness in a short period of use. I've never owned a Tikka, but have handled/fondled quite a few of them and did own a Sako 75 for many years. I had a chance to look at a Bergara B14 action (in an HMR) not too long ago and can make a fair comparison to what I own and use.

Some Howas do come with throwaway stocks but the HCR does not. And based on LSI's Instagram hints, the 1500 heavy barrel will soon be sold mounted in the KRG Bravo chassis (direct bullseye against the Bergara HMR).

And as a bonus Howas come with a two-stage trigger for free, which is my preferred style.

 

[patriot07]

Tikka doesn't offer any of the walnut stock options with 6.5CM. Where Bergera does. But both the Bergera Timber and Tikka Forest are are really sharp looking shooters

That makes sense. Tikka has definitely been slow to roll the 6.5CM to their full lineup.

 

[patriot07]

In what objective way? All three Howas I've owned have smoothed up to the point of being indistinguishable from a Tikka within 500 - 1000 cycles. Their accuracy is undeniable and objectively verifiable. So is their general machining: hardly a toolmark to be found anywhere in the three I have (and I know how and where to look).

Right out of the box Bergara actions offer nothing better than Howa, and Howa catches up to Tikka in smoothness in a short period of use. I've never owned a Tikka, but have handled/fondled quite a few of them and did own a Sako 75 for many years. I had a chance to look at a Bergara B14 action (in an HMR) not too long ago and can make a fair comparison to what I own and use.

Some Howas do come with throwaway stocks but the HCR does not. And based on LSI's Instagram hints, the 1500 heavy barrel will soon be sold mounted in the KRG Bravo chassis (direct bullseye against the Bergara HMR).

And as a bonus Howas come with a two-stage trigger for free, which is my preferred style.

Howa HCR is an awesome rifle, especially for the price. You'll get no argument from me on that.

Having to spend $500 in ammo to make a Howa as smooth as a Tikka is a downside for sure. The trigger on the Tikka is 2nd to none as far as I'm concerned. Both of my Tikkas have shot .5 MOA with factory ammo. I don't think Howa is quite that good, or at least I'll say that more of their rifles won't meet that standard than Tikka/Bergara.

I like Howa a lot. Don't get me wrong. But there are aspects of the Bergara and Tikka that I think are better. Not a lot, but some.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have had very good experience with the M70 Featherweight .30-'06.

With proper handloads it can shoot very consistently for me. Mine was bought used in the mid-1990's already wearing an unidentifiable Bell and Carson camo synthetic stock. In my hands, and now my Son-in-Law's hands, it has harvested a great batch of whitetails, and also took 4th in the 1997 NJ State Sniper Championships with FGMM 168's and a Harris Bipod.. It has also won each and every local club 'deer rifle' match it''s been entered into. All I can figure is that it's got one of these especially good factory barrels. I handload Rem or Win brass with WLR's and 48.1gr of IMR-4064 capped with either the 168SMK, or 165SGK, delivering right about 1MOA at 200yd, and this load is also safe for the Garand.

I own a Mossberg MVP Predator .223. I like it a ton. I have seen Mossberg patriots out of the stock, and kinda like the way they're put together, a lot. With Federal 62gr Fusion MSR's, my MVP is a hunter/tack driver, and the load has some serious terminal performance, probably the best combination of accuracy and terminal performance I've ever seen from a .223. Recognizing the .223's limitations, I'd consider my MVP as a viable implement for harvesting Whitetails out to 150yd, and maybe to 200 under very favorable conditions. As long as good shot placement can be assured, it's an able deer harvester.

With reasonably light bullets, the .30-'06 is not going to hammer you significantly worse than the .308, and with a significantly energetic medium weight bonded bullet, the .223 can work quite well within reasonably ethical distances.

Also, don't forget the .260 or 6.5CM. I had the Savage 10 Predator Hunter Max 1 .260 and it's very much the versatile rifle you are looking for. When I moved South to AZ, I gave it to my Daughter for Whitetails in Upstate NY. I would even consider it a very suitable entry level rifle for PRC. It works especially well with Hornady American Hunter.

Greg

 

[308pirate]

Having to spend $500 in ammo to make a Howa as smooth as a Tikka is a downside for sure.

Come on, don't be so disingenuous......That's not money burned to make the bolt smooth. That's money spent enjoying the rifle and it just gets even better than what it was on its own.

Both of my Tikkas have shot .5 MOA with factory ammo. I don't think Howa is quite that good, or at least I'll say that more of their rifles won't meet that standard than Tikka/Bergara.

I can't remember the last time I shot factory ammo through my 308 M1500, but the 223 M1500 I recently bought shot right around the .5 mark with the only premium factory load I had lying around (Hornady 55 gr Amax TAP).

What is telling is how easy it is to find a handload they like. On top of that every Howa 1500 sold now comes with a sub MOA guarantee. Frank Galli demonstrated one such example just recently here with not one but three different factory loads.

Gotta ask, have you ever owned one?

 

[patriot07]

Come on, don't be so disingenuous......That's not money burned to make the bolt smooth. That's money spent enjoying the rifle and it just gets even better than what it was on its own.


I can't remember the last time I shot factory ammo through my 308 M1500, but the 223 M1500 I recently bought shot right around the .5 mark with the only premium factory load I had lying around (Hornady 55 gr Amax TAP).

What is telling is how easy it is to find a handload they like. On top of that every Howa 1500 sold now comes with a sub MOA guarantee. Frank Galli demonstrated one such example just recently here with not one but three different factory loads.

Gotta ask, have you ever owned one?

Never owned one. Have shot a few. Liked them. Just not as much as my Tikkas.

 

[gopherslayer]

Let people think Howa is budget. More for us. Everything a 700 wishes it was. 1 piece bolt. Floor plate is metal not pot metal crap. Sako/M16style extractor . Integral lug. I own a few and a few savage and a few 700s. Haven’t bought a 700 in 10 years. Might get a tikka next week.