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Hunting & Fishing First time hunting question

30calDeath

30calDeath

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 23, 2010
1,207
166
44
North Idaho
#1
This Fall I will be accompanying my Dad (long time hunter along with his buddy) on a Bear/Deer/Wolf hunt out of Northern Idaho. We will more than likely be back packing in with everything for up to a weeks hunt. I only have one rifle and it is my LWRC REPR which is a 308. As we all know these 308 AR's can be pigs. Am I crazy for wanting to take this rifle on the hunt? Right now it has a Vortex 1-6x but I am thinking of buying the new Vortex Viper PST in 2.5-10x sometime this summer. I figure I will get enough range time in to be proficient at 500-600ish yards. Should I go with this set up or just skip it all together and go with one of my pops bolt action guns that weighs 7lbs or less? If I do go that route I wont be all that familiar with the gun and optic because I wont have much time to shoot his rifle. I am in SoCal and he is in Northern Idaho. Thanks!
 
#2
In my experience toting kit and firearm in Alaska on my back, light is right, lighter is righter. Even my 7.5# 340wby rifle got heavy at times toting it day after day, up and down and all round. But, the REPR is what I would want to use also, do you tote weight for the suffer machine or not. I would say in depends on how far you approach to camp, how much hiking in what terrain and just how much fun do you want, the hiking or shooting!

Another option might be to drop the coin on a Tikka T3 SL and then mount the PST you plan to buy, now you have fun and well fun toy for each job.

good luck
 
#3
For deer and wolf a .308 will be okay. Bear might be a different story, so aim for the head, more specifically the eyeball.

Yes, you're kind of crazy to be taking an AR on what is very well going to turn out to be an extended stalk hunt. Your only advantage is the semi-automatic function of your rifle over a bolt gun. The weight will piss you off eventually if you're not exhausted by then. Then there's being exhausted from carrying a rifle, and not being able to get set up for a shot, or missing your shot at a good, or maybe even a trophy, tag.

I do understand what you're saying about having every thing set up versus getting a new rifle and setting that one up, but now also consider that the ammo that you use for target shooting will in some cases not give you the desired results for hunting. Differently designed bullets, and even though they may not have the BC that you're .308 bullets might have, they could probably do a better job of transferring the bullet energy into the animal.

My opinion is that you go with one of your Dad's guns. Find the rifle that he has, the has the largest caliber plus the flattest trajectory, the rifle you pick would have to have both, plus a fast muzzle velocity, something above the .30 cal bullet selection. My recommendation is based of my assumption that you are going into a mountainous area with far sight ranges out to one mile if not past that, if I'm incorrect and it's more of forested area, then you would probably be okay with something having a shorter range, something in the .30 cal range will excel here, because you won't be able to be tempted to try and shoot an animal over 600 yards or more away, and then watch it get up and walk away.

Please post here what kind of an area you will be hunting in, and what selection(make, model, and caliber) of rifles you have to choose from.
 
#4
I have killers bunch of black bear with 243s 308 is fine. Remember ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. Just dump the extra crap you really dont need and get the lightest gear you can find.
 
#8
30calDeath said:
Lol....possibly buying new glass and pack and frame/boots/etc is going to cost me enough!
Click to expand...

Fun is not cheap, just ask Alaskans how much coin they spend to have fun. Whats another $600 for a new Tikka T3!!!!!

In my experience, weight cannot be stressed enough. Carry what you what have, then cut that weight by a 1/4 and see how much easier it is. Cut it by half and it starts getting easy. The less energy you burn over the day, the more energy you have for the next day, you sleep better, eat better, rest better which means you enjoy it much more.
 
#9
Alaskaman11 said:
I have killers bunch of black bear with 243s 308 is fine. Remember ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. Just dump the extra crap you really dont need and get the lightest gear you can find.
Click to expand...

While I would not agree that the 243 is good for you on this trip, the advice about weight is very good. If you can go lighter with more caliber, that is your best move.

If your dad has a light 300winmag or a 338 you are set. Don't worry too much about 600 yd shots, plan to make one good shot at a range you are 100% at, probably closer to half that. Tracking wounded animals isn't hunting.

Good luck take lots of pictures and tell us about your trip!
 
#10
Another for bring what you know and as for caliber... I know guys that pursue bear/elk with calibers that others would laugh at, use a good bullet and place it correctly and you will be fine. I hunt with a 12+pound rifle in the eastern hills of Montana and I use a pack that I can carry the rifle in along with all my other LR gear, which helps immensely.

Surprised no one has mentioned conditioning. Start putting on some mileage and then start adding a little weight to your load. Whatever boots you get be sure to put some time on those as well. Your dad and buddy may laugh at your decision until you are the one looking back at them smiling while they are sucking air... Kodac moment, LOL
 
#13
243 is plenty for wolf, deer and blackies, I sold more 243s to Alaskan natives than any other caliber, 30.30win was #2 sold. Every year 243 tip over 1100 pound moose in the state of Alaska at average hunting distances of 225 yards. My cousin tipped over his Toklat phase grizz with 22.250, if i remember correct it was 600 maybe 650 pounds on the hoof, 7.5' sq at around 75 yards. Most hunters are over calibered and over scoped.

I have to say, I have had clients with light packs and heavy packs and those with light packs had an easier time, enjoyed their trip more and performed better when the time counted.

Conditioning, we are talking rifles right now. But, bike riding is the best exercise to simulate hiking, set the seat low with high resistance then low resistance and spin to rest, like interval training just keep the seat low to simulate the short strokes for hiking. Also long hikes and stair climbing with a pack, bike riding is easier on the knees though.

Still recommend, sounds like an excuse to purchase a new rifle, Tikka SL in 7,08 or 7mag. Whats money, cant take it with you so might as well not have any.
 
#14
45.308 said:
243 is plenty for wolf, deer and blackies, I sold more 243s to Alaskan natives than any other caliber, 30.30win was #2 sold. Every year 243 tip over 1100 pound moose in the state of Alaska at average hunting distances of 225 yards. My cousin tipped over his Toklat phase grizz with 22.250, if i remember correct it was 600 maybe 650 pounds on the hoof, 7.5' sq at around 75 yards. Most hunters are over calibered and over scoped.

I have to say, I have had clients with light packs and heavy packs and those with light packs had an easier time, enjoyed their trip more and performed better when the time counted.

Conditioning, we are talking rifles right now. But, bike riding is the best exercise to simulate hiking, set the seat low with high resistance then low resistance and spin to rest, like interval training just keep the seat low to simulate the short strokes for hiking. Also long hikes and stair climbing with a pack, bike riding is easier on the knees though.

Still recommend, sounds like an excuse to purchase a new rifle, Tikka SL in 7,08 or 7mag. Whats money, cant take it with you so might as well not have any.
Click to expand...

Spoken by the Oracle from Alaska!
Listen to 45.308, he's suffered through more hard environment situations than most. PM PGS and KraigWY here also, their skill sets in the area you're going are at the top of the food chain...
 
#16
I lived in N. Idaho most of my life. My folks still live over there and hunt A LOT. Past couple years, bears for my father have been 375 pounds and 425 pounds. They are on the big side for N. Idaho, many of the bears go 250 pounds or a bit less on average.

N. Idaho is NOT known for LR Hunting. Most of my shots have been 25-150 yards on Public Ground. These days if I go back over and hunt its on private and shots are longer because of open fields but that extends it to 250-300 yards max. There are some clear cuts etc, but shots aren't very long. While N. Idaho holds a good amount of wolves, good luck seeing them, my father and buddy have been running a trap line, but success has been in only bobcats and coyotes. .308 will be fine for most everything. Bump up to 180 Grain for Bear and keep your shots close and you shouldn't have any problems. Shoot a premium bullet such as a TSX, and I wouldn't have a problem bear hunting in N. Idaho with a .308. Its been a few years, but I did get a few deer up there with Sierra 168's and didn't have a problem knocking them down. Mag capacity is limited to 5 I believe in ARs. But check the regs on that.
 
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#17
45.308 said:
243 is plenty for wolf, deer and blackies, I sold more 243s to Alaskan natives than any other caliber, 30.30win was #2 sold. Every year 243 tip over 1100 pound moose in the state of Alaska at average hunting distances of 225 yards. My cousin tipped over his Toklat phase grizz with 22.250, if i remember correct it was 600 maybe 650 pounds on the hoof, 7.5' sq at around 75 yards. Most hunters are over calibered and over scoped.

I have to say, I have had clients with light packs and heavy packs and those with light packs had an easier time, enjoyed their trip more and performed better when the time counted.

Conditioning, we are talking rifles right now. But, bike riding is the best exercise to simulate hiking, set the seat low with high resistance then low resistance and spin to rest, like interval training just keep the seat low to simulate the short strokes for hiking. Also long hikes and stair climbing with a pack, bike riding is easier on the knees though.

Still recommend, sounds like an excuse to purchase a new rifle, Tikka SL in 7,08 or 7mag. Whats money, cant take it with you so might as well not have any.
Click to expand...

Where I worked in AK they shot a bunch of stuff with .223's (caribou especially) and the one native bragged about taking down a Muskox with 18 shots out of his .22 Mag. Doesn't mean its right. It would not have been fun to stop a charging grizzly with a .22-250 if your cousin wounded it. Plus, there is a point of making an animal suffer. Using enough gun and having proper shot placement is my big things. IMHO, until you get over .500 NE, there isn't really to much gun. And facing the Cape Buffalo I shot last fall, a .500 NE didn't even seem that big. Many hunters are over caliber with a LIGHT RIFLE. There is a big difference between shooting a 6lb .300 RUM and a 10lb .300 RUM. Light rifles make people scared of them and the flinches come out big time.
 
#19
30calDeath said:
Excellent advice in this thread and I thank you guys. I am looking at Kifaru for some of their gear as I have one of their Koalas. Can someone recommend me some good boots? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

What kind of foot do you have; toes, arch length, Achilles notch, high volume, metatarsals will depend on the last of the boot for a good fit, not just what is the latest boot fad. The most natural lasted boot is LaSportiva makalu last. Scarpa for high volume. Lowa for long toes narrow last. etc. I believe in high quality boots that fit the persons foot, not mass produced one last fits all.
 
#20
sierrabravo45 said:
Where I worked in AK they shot a bunch of stuff with .223's (caribou especially) and the one native bragged about taking down a Muskox with 18 shots out of his .22 Mag. Doesn't mean its right. It would not have been fun to stop a charging grizzly with a .22-250 if your cousin wounded it. Plus, there is a point of making an animal suffer. Using enough gun and having proper shot placement is my big things. IMHO, until you get over .500 NE, there isn't really to much gun. And facing the Cape Buffalo I shot last fall, a .500 NE didn't even seem that big. Many hunters are over caliber with a LIGHT RIFLE. There is a big difference between shooting a 6lb .300 RUM and a 10lb .300 RUM. Light rifles make people scared of them and the flinches come out big time.
Click to expand...

Who is they? Some white guys tipped over a book moose in 16 with a Kimber 45 spewing dozens of rounds in the moose. What does either of these prove.

A well placed 100 grain Partition from a 243 will tip over most game in Alaska with ease, there is no suffering compared to a well placed 250gr from a 338, dead is dead, can only kill something so dead. A miss is a miss, 500NE in the gut will be more suffering than a 60gr 22-250 in the zone, my cousin has tipped over a great amount of game animals with his 22.250 over 4 decades of hunting. Some walked a short distance, others tipped over where they stood just like my 340Wby with 250gr, some walked a short distance, others tipped over where they stood.

Do bow hunters allow animals to suffer?

Ascend 2000 feet of wet scree, side hill a mile just to get ready for a stalk of a sheep, lungs screaming, legs hurting, head pounding now try to take that shot, every ounce on the body counts. My Tikka in 7.08 will be easier to carry, less recoil and allow me to make a shot in the zone and the well designed 160 partition will does it job if I can do mine carrying as light of weight of rifle as I can.
 
#21
I'm with 45.308 100%... When shopping for a hunting rifle two of my dozen uncles said "Get a .270 because you can kill anything in North America with it so long as your shot placement is good." I finished off a wounded mule deer my partner shot (It wouldn't have gone far but we didn't know that for sure) at 500 yards with my .308... Right between the shoulder blades, severed the spine, dead on the spot (it was a steep downward angle) and out the other side. Shot placement and using high quality bullets is a must. Calibre is less important.
 
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#22
Stick with your .308 if that is what you are comfortable and proficient with. Don't listen to people who try to tell you that a bolt gun in another caliber (of which the .308 is the parent case) will suit you better. The gentleman who chimed in earlier and said there aren't many long shots in north ID had about the best advice yet. Your rifle is plenty for everything you listed and much more. I plan on hunting elk this fall with my AR chambered in .308 cause the stuff we hunt in western WA is thick as dog hair and a compact semi auto 30 caliber rifle is plenty of gun and will be a joy to carry in my eberlestock pack. Save your money instead for good bino's, boots, and a GPS.

Good luck on your hunt.
 
#23
As far as hunting goes shot placement is key. Whatever you decide to carry know its limits, verify zero when you get there. Use a good hunting bullet. Don't take risky shots. Nothing takes the fun out of a hunt like a lost animal due to a misplaced shot. While any .243 on up can kill the animals mentioned cleanly if every thing is perfect. A 30cal .308win-.300win makes sense to me. A nice light bolt action would be ideal. 1 shot 1 kill. Good luck. Enjoy the time with your father.
Wally
 
#24
45.308 has given you very good advice.
How much practice time will you have with your father's rifle? If it were me, I would show up a couple of days early, and put some target time in with one of your pop's rifles and use it. I am not familiar with Northern Idaho, but I have hunted Colorado once, the entire state of Missouri, and most of Arizona pretty extensively. That said with the exception of jack rabbits and prairie dogs, I don't think I have ever taken a shot over 350 yards. The critters you mentioned will spend a lot of time in thicker cover, rather than sitting in the middle of an open field and thus that is where you will end up. As for caliber, I agree with 45.308. Make sure you have a quality bullet and you will be good to go with any reasonable caliber.
As a side note, hunting in the mountains and at elevation can kick your ass, get in good shape if you are not already. California has some great hiking trails, I would say go on at least one overnight hike with the boots you plan on taking to make sure they are comfy enough.
 
#25
This topic is a little beat to death but I will add my .02. The 308 will do what you want, but the platform is not the best for mountain hunting (if you wil be hunting in the mountains). I read a great article last year and I will paraphrase. "If your out to kill game, then bring the hardest hitting, flattest shooting rifle you can find. But if you want to hunt game, using skill and woodsmanship, then bring the appropriate hunting rifle."

Precision, tactical(competition), and hunting are all shooting sports, but they are not the same discipline. Rifles are no more than tools, bring the correct tool or buy/borrow one.
 
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