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Rifle Scopes First Vortex PST GII failure report in SH (FIXED BY VORTEX)

dannySH

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 13, 2017
531
126
Hello, I think that I have the bad luck to be the first member at SH (and maybe in the world) to report a failure on the new Vortex PST GII.
Today After zeroing my brand new PST GII 3-15x44 FFP EBR2C MOA and setting the zero stop I started turning the elevation turret all the way up counting the remaining MOAs I had left then the turret never stopped and continued turning up and up until it got loose and unscrewed from the scope body.
I sent an email to Vortex today, hopping to talk to them tomorrow.
Will keep you informed.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


 
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If you haven't already seen all the glowing reports on the Hide about Vortex Customer Service, You will be very well taken care of. No worries.

Vortex have one of the best reputations in the industry. They deserve it, they've worked very hard to earn it.
 
That's a feature! Unlimited adjustment, haha!

All joking aside, Vortex will take care of you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 
That's unfortunate Danny, I was really wanting one of those 3-15 models for a 223... How was everything else about the scope? Turret feel, glass, zoom at which the reticle was useable, eye relief, field of view? If you don't mind of course..
 
Glass IMHO is an improvement over the first Gen, turret feel is nice with very clear and audible clicks. Reticle is usable at around 8x or higher, bellow that is just a cross hair, eye box is still a little tight at high magnifications but I would say is better than Gen 1. I've used Vortex Warranty other times and I know is top notch, lets hope this time will be the same.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 
I have no doubt Vortex will get you taken care of quickly... This is gonna be a big line up for them and as with all new lines of products there will be bugs to work out....
 
I've never seen that happen before.

https://youtu.be/6TZ_1_mST-Y

In my experience, all Vortex scopes have a QC problem and all require a trip back to get fixed. I think I'm 5 for 5. Only one has had to go back twice. When it came back, that video was filmed. The second time, it came back functional. It's part of the Vortex experience.
 
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In my experience, all NON RAZOR HD II Vortex scopes have a QC problem and all require a trip back to get fixed.

Fixed that for you.

I'm 2/2 on my PST scopes failing but SO far the RAZOR HD II have held up fine. Being snipershide, we would all know right away if the Razors had problems.
 
I've never seen that happen before.

[video=youtube_share;6TZ_1_mST-Y]https://youtu.be/6TZ_1_mST-Y[/video]

In my experience, all Vortex scopes have a QC problem and all require a trip back to get fixed. I think I'm 5 for 5. Only one has had to go back twice. When it came back, that video was filmed. The second time, it came back functional. It's part of the Vortex experience.

That's exactly what happened to mine but with the new turrets.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 
Hi Danny,

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to your new PST Gen II. I work closely with a lot of our departments at Vortex and want to get to the bottom of this for you. Mainly I want to make sure you get a scope that is working properly and you are happy. My best guess is the lock-ring on the bottom of the turret screw was never installed. This lock-ring is pretty stout and there should be no way to back out the turret screw otherwise. Comparing to the PST Gen I in the video above we actually beefed up the PST Gen II. The Gen 1 used a "E-clip" on the bottom of the turret screw to keep it from backing out. The "E-clip" on Gen 1 could be deformed and the turret removed if excess force was used. The PST Gen II uses a machined lock-ring that is pretty thick. If it was installed it would be nearly impossible to back out the screw, so again my best guess is the lock-ring was not installed. Either way, we will figure it out and get it completely taken care of for you.

If you call our customer service today they will get this turned around for you ASAP. 1-800-426-0048.

If you have any troubles at all with your service experience, questions, or anything else, please PM me and I will make sure we get you taken care of. Thank you!

Dave
 
I don't mind so much when scopes just "break." When they just break, at least you know for sure that its broken. I recently tested a gen II razor that would not hold better than 3/4-1moa groups. Replace the scope and magically the rifle is capable of 1/4 to 1/3moa. That took significant time and effort to diagnose, as it was a new scope on a new rifle. I WISH the turret would just fall off scopes like that.
 
Hi Danny,

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to your new PST Gen II. I work closely with a lot of our departments at Vortex and want to get to the bottom of this for you. Mainly I want to make sure you get a scope that is working properly and you are happy. My best guess is the lock-ring on the bottom of the turret screw was never installed. This lock-ring is pretty stout and there should be no way to back out the turret screw otherwise. Comparing to the PST Gen I in the video above we actually beefed up the PST Gen II. The Gen 1 used a "E-clip" on the bottom of the turret screw to keep it from backing out. The "E-clip" on Gen 1 could be deformed and the turret removed if excess force was used. The PST Gen II uses a machined lock-ring that is pretty thick. If it was installed it would be nearly impossible to back out the screw, so again my best guess is the lock-ring was not installed. Either way, we will figure it out and get it completely taken care of for you.

If you call our customer service today they will get this turned around for you ASAP. 1-800-426-0048.

If you have any troubles at all with your service experience, questions, or anything else, please PM me and I will make sure we get you taken care of. Thank you!

Dave

Thanks Dave, I got an email from Vortex with a shipping label, the scope is on it's way to Vortex. Will kep you posted.
 
Hello, I think that I have the bad luck to be the first member at SH (and maybe in the world) to report a failure on the new Vortex PST GII.
Today After zeroing my brand new PST GII 3-15x44 FFP EBR2C MOA and setting the zero stop I started turning the elevation turret all the way up counting the remaining MOAs I had left then the turret never stopped and continued turning up and up until it got loose and unscrewed from the scope body.
I think we might have a tie. I saw a guy unscrew his PST2 elevation adjustment at Red River Rifle & Pistol Club yesterday. So, probably same day as you. I hope this isn't like the whole initial production run of these. The PST1 had a bad enough reputation to overcome.
 
I haven't ever seen a company keep a good reputation after so many failures of a product. I know all about their great customer service because I used to own a few PSTs. I am happy with my two Gen II Razors but wouldn't touch a PST if it was given to me.

Don't get me wrong I like a lot of what Vortex is doing but it baffles the mind that they, for the most part, get a pass from a lot of shooters on this site. Most brands get labeled as garbage with only a fraction of the failures that are reported here
 
Given that here at SH we are a tiny fraction of the larger shooting community , the number of ' budget Vortex '
failures is alarming . 2 from 2 PST failures in my case . If it was a car or washing machine , consumer groups
would be bagging the shit out of them .
 
I haven't ever seen a company keep a good reputation after so many failures of a product. I know all about their great customer service because I used to own a few PSTs. I am happy with my two Gen II Razors but wouldn't touch a PST if it was given to me.

Don't get me wrong I like a lot of what Vortex is doing but it baffles the mind that they, for the most part, get a pass from a lot of shooters on this site. Most brands get labeled as garbage with only a fraction of the failures that are reported here

Strategic Sponsorship!
 
Well my 5-25x50 FFP Mrad will be returning to Wisconsin. I've had it out 3 times now and every time requires it to be re-zeroed. Zero and shoot a few, OK it seems normal. Dial up and down a few times and shoot again. .6 off. High, low left and right. No rhyme or reason. It is acting the same way as my Gen I PST did. Vortex fixed that one and had quick turn around time, hopefully this will be the same. I was chasing my butt since the 1st round on this scope and was hoping it was something else but no joy.

Now to remount the Nightforce for the match this Saturday. Oh well.
 
Well my 5-25x50 FFP Mrad will be returning to Wisconsin. I've had it out 3 times now and every time requires it to be re-zeroed. Zero and shoot a few, OK it seems normal. Dial up and down a few times and shoot again. .6 off. High, low left and right. No rhyme or reason. It is acting the same way as my Gen I PST did. Vortex fixed that one and had quick turn around time, hopefully this will be the same. I was chasing my butt since the 1st round on this scope and was hoping it was something else but no joy.

Now to remount the Nightforce for the match this Saturday. Oh well.

Well this sure is discouraging, I'm starting to rethink my future purchase reading stuff like this... I have a tikka varmint 223 optic purchase coming up, I guess I'm gonna have to start looking into some other alternatives... Come on Vortex, QC matters...
 
I think we might have a tie. I saw a guy unscrew his PST2 elevation adjustment at Red River Rifle & Pistol Club yesterday. So, probably same day as you. I hope this isn't like the whole initial production run of these. The PST1 had a bad enough reputation to overcome.

Was that RRRPC range in north Texas?

If so I shoot there weekly. Send me a PM and we could meet up.

I had a Gen 1 PST with no issues. I have a Gen II razor now again with no issues. I think you hear about scopes breaking more with Vortex for the shear number of scopes they sell. You always see a vortex scope at the range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I dunno why people think no scopes break. Everything breaks. Scopes, cars, dishwashers... it's how it's taken care of that makes or breaks the deal. Vortex has a great warranty program. I hope that I never have to use it, but if I do, I know that it will be handled well. That's why I buy Vortex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I dunno why people think no scopes break. Everything breaks. Scopes, cars, dishwashers... it's how it's taken care of that makes or breaks the deal. Vortex has a great warranty program. I hope that I never have to use it, but if I do, I know that it will be handled well. That's why I buy Vortex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True. All things break... But some brands or models have a higher rate of failure than others. No amount of customer service is going to satisfy me if I have a failure during a match or on a hunt.

John
 
True. All things break... But some brands or models have a higher rate of failure than others. No amount of customer service is going to satisfy me if I have a failure during a match or on a hunt.

John

Agree 100%. Both quality and assurance equally matter. Quality does not overcome lack of assurance (e.g., Vectronix). Assurance should not overcome quality.

The two factors that allow forgiveness of some quality is budgets and use:

- Folk subject to budget constraints are willing to forgive some quality if there is great assurance

- Hunt or match = critical use. Range warriors and casual plinkers = non-critical use
 
It doesn't matter how many features and upgrades you pack into a scope if it doesn't hold up. For these to be so new it certainly sounds like there are some real QC issues going on with the new Vipers. With a cheap optic I could understand but around the $1000 mark I at least expect the scope to stay together, track, and hold zero.

I know Vortex takes care of their customers but the best product warranty is the one you never have to use....... and I've seen lots of reports of good customer service from Vortex.
 
and I've seen lots of reports of good customer service from Vortex.
Interesting point there.

Point in fact, I can think of no other company which enjoys such a large number of customers that report they are happy when their product breaks. One is likely to interpret that in whatever way reinforces their own opinions. :)

 
Now to be fair, I'm more than happy with my gen 2 Razor but of the few people on here that have received these new PST's and already hearing about all these problems is alarming.. I am a fan of Vortex and their outstanding customer service and warranty, but it seems as though these new scopes may have been rushed a bit.. I did say at one point that these scopes from Vortex would be a hit and would steal the thunder from the Burris XTR II, mainly because of glass, and i think they still will but gotta do a better job with QC...
 
Hi Everyone,

This is Dave at Vortex. I want to address this issue.
First, we have already shipped a few thousand of the PST Gen II. Including SH and other sources, as well as calls into our customer service we have not received many calls of issues at all. A very small handful. Seeing comments about hearing of all kinds of problems already…well, just keep the thread in context: There is one issue from the OP and we are about to get that scope back. The other post claiming seeing another on the range having the same problem as the OP; well, we have not heard from any other customer or received anything back from someone else with this problem yet. If that other person is out there I certainly hope they contact us so we can take care of their problem.

We certainly take QC very seriously. We are a family, veteran owned company and we want to do the best job we can in every way. No product under the sun has ever been made perfect. But we certainly do our best to achieve that. We certainly do not enjoy a large number of customers reporting they are happy when their product breaks. In fact, I have yet to hear of a customer who is ever happy when a product breaks. Knowing that we live in the real world abiding by the laws of physics and products will fail or break from time to time, one way, among many others, that we can help is through taking care of our customer after the sale. On the front end we certainly put every effort into design and material choices, and all types of QC to deliver the best product possible. There is no magic material or silver bullet to make something invincible. Something else to keep in mind: when you move a high volume of scopes, the number of failures will go up…the percentage of failures does not necessarily go up.

To be more specific to the OP’s issue we have been doing a lot of testing on the PST Gen II, even before receiving his scope back, and found that if you turn the turret to the end of travel (opposite end of the zero stop) and you really wrench on the turret, you can break the threaded post/nut on the end of the turret screw which keeps the turret from backing out all the way. It takes a pretty serious force. We have actually tested this and found this to be the case on many scopes from many other brands as well. These scopes are precision optical instruments. If you feel resistance where you don’t expect it (i.e. opposite the zero stop end of travel or anywhere else unexpected), then stop! Now, in defense of the OP, it’s likely his scope was handled before he got it (customer at a retailer, etc.) and someone who had no idea what they were doing wrenched on the turret and broke it before he received it. And honestly, we don’t care how it happened because we are going to repair it for free, even if he admits his crazy brother broke his scope for fun.

We will continue to monitor this issue and absolutely address anything further needed. And again, of the few thousand we have already shipped we have had a handful (as in one hand) of confirmed issues so far. And this being the only issue of this type that we have confirmed (i.e. we haven’t confirmed the other claim in this thread yet).

BTW, if you are still concerned that you can wrench the turret off realize that the rotational/torsional force that is transferred to the post/nut on the end of the turret screw is completely different than a force from knocking the turrets against objects in field use. If you knock the turrets around in the field this post/nut doesn’t take any of that force or impact. All the force and impact is take by the turret body/turret screw which is supported many, many orders of magnitude more and will definitely hold up to a lot of abuse. Nothing is invincible but they are tough.

Thanks everyone. Have a great night!
Dave
 
Hi Everyone,

This is Dave at Vortex. I want to address this issue.
First, we have already shipped a few thousand of the PST Gen II. Including SH and other sources, as well as calls into our customer service we have not received many calls of issues at all. A very small handful. Seeing comments about hearing of all kinds of problems already�well, just keep the thread in context: There is one issue from the OP and we are about to get that scope back. The other post claiming seeing another on the range having the same problem as the OP; well, we have not heard from any other customer or received anything back from someone else with this problem yet. If that other person is out there I certainly hope they contact us so we can take care of their problem.

We certainly take QC very seriously. We are a family, veteran owned company and we want to do the best job we can in every way. No product under the sun has ever been made perfect. But we certainly do our best to achieve that. We certainly do not enjoy a large number of customers reporting they are happy when their product breaks. In fact, I have yet to hear of a customer who is ever happy when a product breaks. Knowing that we live in the real world abiding by the laws of physics and products will fail or break from time to time, one way, among many others, that we can help is through taking care of our customer after the sale. On the front end we certainly put every effort into design and material choices, and all types of QC to deliver the best product possible. There is no magic material or silver bullet to make something invincible. Something else to keep in mind: when you move a high volume of scopes, the number of failures will go up�the percentage of failures does not necessarily go up.

To be more specific to the OP�s issue we have been doing a lot of testing on the PST Gen II, even before receiving his scope back, and found that if you turn the turret to the end of travel (opposite end of the zero stop) and you really wrench on the turret, you can break the threaded post/nut on the end of the turret screw which keeps the turret from backing out all the way. It takes a pretty serious force. We have actually tested this and found this to be the case on many scopes from many other brands as well. These scopes are precision optical instruments. If you feel resistance where you don�t expect it (i.e. opposite the zero stop end of travel or anywhere else unexpected), then stop! Now, in defense of the OP, it�s likely his scope was handled before he got it (customer at a retailer, etc.) and someone who had no idea what they were doing wrenched on the turret and broke it before he received it. And honestly, we don�t care how it happened because we are going to repair it for free, even if he admits his crazy brother broke his scope for fun.

We will continue to monitor this issue and absolutely address anything further needed. And again, of the few thousand we have already shipped we have had a handful (as in one hand) of confirmed issues so far. And this being the only issue of this type that we have confirmed (i.e. we haven�t confirmed the other claim in this thread yet).

BTW, if you are still concerned that you can wrench the turret off realize that the rotational/torsional force that is transferred to the post/nut on the end of the turret screw is completely different than a force from knocking the turrets against objects in field use. If you knock the turrets around in the field this post/nut doesn�t take any of that force or impact. All the force and impact is take by the turret body/turret screw which is supported many, many orders of magnitude more and will definitely hold up to a lot of abuse. Nothing is invincible but they are tough.

Thanks everyone. Have a great night!
Dave

Than you for all the explanation Dave, this is not the first time I've used Vortex Warranty and I've being very pleased with it just like I'm now with all your info and interest with my case.
Now, in the defense of the OP I've never put any pressure at the end of the turret's travel, this is not my first scope (nor the last) and even though I'm not a professional shooter I've owned more than a dozen scopes of all kind of tiers and I've being shooting enough time to know how to handle a scope turret. I bought this PST G2 from MidwayUSA, when received, the scope was inspected as I always do, looking at the glass, moving the turrets all the way up/down and right/ left checking for travel and everything seemed ok. Installed on my Tikka T3 Hunter .308 on Vortex Hunting rings and EGW 20 MOA rail. Went to the range for zeroing. After the sighting in I set the Zero Stop then as usual I turned both turrets up/down and right/left to see the remaining travel and when moving the elevation turret all the way up counting MOAs I realized that there was no end travel when I passed 80 MOAs, at that time the resistance of the turret was softer than it should be, I continued going up and up w/o applying any force until the turret popped up from the scope. I screw it back on and repeated the same operation with the same results. I have no explanation of what happened, my brother doesn't live with me, my son never touch my weapons and I don't think there are costumers touching scopes at MidwayUSA.
Again, I really appreciate your personal interest in my case and all the explanations you gave here. Thanks to Vortex for the wonderful CS and warranty.

Danny
 
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To be more specific to the OP’s issue we have been doing a lot of testing on the PST Gen II, even before receiving his scope back, and found that if you turn the turret to the end of travel (opposite end of the zero stop) and you really wrench on the turret, you can break the threaded post/nut on the end of the turret screw which keeps the turret from backing out all the way. It takes a pretty serious force. We have actually tested this and found this to be the case on many scopes from many other brands as well. These scopes are precision optical instruments. If you feel resistance where you don’t expect it (i.e. opposite the zero stop end of travel or anywhere else unexpected), then stop! Now, in defense of the OP, it’s likely his scope was handled before he got it (customer at a retailer, etc.) and someone who had no idea what they were doing wrenched on the turret and broke it before he received it.

I would think most shooters/hunters dropping $1K for glass, are pretty serious about what they are doing and know not to keep turning a turret when it's bottomed out. But then again, some dudes are 'farm strong', so....

I wanted to thank you for being active in a thread like this. It's always great to get direct, timely feedback. I wish other manufacturers would do that.
 
I would think most shooters/hunters dropping $1K for glass, are pretty serious about what they are doing and know not to keep turning a turret when it's bottomed out. But then again, some dudes are 'farm strong', so....

I wanted to thank you for being active in a thread like this. It's always great to get direct, timely feedback. I wish other manufacturers would do that.


$1K for an FFP, mil/mil, ranging reticle, illuminated, etc featured scope is entry-level. The 'competition' guys spending $1K for glass are wanting to assess how serious they want to take the sport. Then if they decide to take it serious, it quickly gets sold and becomes a $2K+ scope.

But if they don't take it serious, then they quickly become just a casual or enthusiast shooter, and that's where having a feature-laden scope that might have a higher hiccup risk but great customer support becomes alright.
 
Scope off on the FedEx truck today. Same thing happened to my Gen I PST after 300 rounds. Once fixed it went another 1K without issues till I sold it. I expect this Gen II to be solid once it's properly fixed. I really do like everything about it except the wandering POA. With a match this weekend I needed to remount my Nightforce again on this rifle. It was right back to a 1/2moa rifle again so that just confirms that the issue was scope based. Oh well a few weeks from now I expect all to be as expected.
 
Scope off on the FedEx truck today. Same thing happened to my Gen I PST after 300 rounds. Once fixed it went another 1K without issues till I sold it. I expect this Gen II to be solid once it's properly fixed. I really do like everything about it except the wandering POA. With a match this weekend I needed to remount my Nightforce again on this rifle. It was right back to a 1/2moa rifle again so that just confirms that the issue was scope based. Oh well a few weeks from now I expect all to be as expected.

Keep us posted!
 
I haven't ever seen a company keep a good reputation after so many failures of a product. I know all about their great customer service because I used to own a few PSTs. I am happy with my two Gen II Razors but wouldn't touch a PST if it was given to me.

Don't get me wrong I like a lot of what Vortex is doing but it baffles the mind that they, for the most part, get a pass from a lot of shooters on this site. Most brands get labeled as garbage with only a fraction of the failures that are reported here

Obviously, I hope I don't have any problems with my PST Gen 1 that I bought right before the Gen 2 was announced.

Concerning "garbage" scopes with fewer reports of problems, it might just be that people throw them in a drawer because they weren't expensive enough to argue with. I have a couple Burris (one has been replaced a couple times; same problem; gave up) and a Weaver that just aren't worth the time and money to keep shipping back and forth. I simply won't ever buy those brands again.

Richard
 
Received an email from Vortex, my scope was shipped back today . They replaced the Elevation turret. Will keep you posted when it arrives.
 
Well got a call from Vortex today from a tech checking my scope. Said he couldn't duplicate my problem. We talked for about 30 minutes, nice guy. My PST should be on it's way back. I was very thorough in my scope mounting and trouble shooting the issue. I remounted my NF NXS and the results were perfect as usual. I can't explain it.

When I remount the PST I'll be picky as usual. I'm down to grasping at straws like wondering if something like the scope finish allowed the scope to shift in the rings. I'll clean everything with alcohol before putting it back together. Any other off of the wall ideas. I already triple checked the usual stuff and like I said the rifle was solid with the NF mounted just like it has always been with the NF and previous PST I.

I would be happy to find and admit that it was all me.
 
Well got a call from Vortex today from a tech checking my scope. Said he couldn't duplicate my problem. We talked for about 30 minutes, nice guy. My PST should be on it's way back. I was very thorough in my scope mounting and trouble shooting the issue. I remounted my NF NXS and the results were perfect as usual. I can't explain it.

When I remount the PST I'll be picky as usual. I'm down to grasping at straws like wondering if something like the scope finish allowed the scope to shift in the rings. I'll clean everything with alcohol before putting it back together. Any other off of the wall ideas. I already triple checked the usual stuff and like I said the rifle was solid with the NF mounted just like it has always been with the NF and previous PST I.

I would be happy to find and admit that it was all me.

Maybe you can give it to one of your shooting buddies to mount and shoot on his rifle? That will determine if it's your rifle or the scope.
 
Maybe you can give it to one of your shooting buddies to mount and shoot on his rifle? That will determine if it's your rifle or the scope.

How is that different in checking the rifle by putting my NF scope on my rifle? My rifle with the NF scope is right where it's been for 1700 rounds with several different scopes on it.

Another thought I had. Is there an actual torque setting for the turret screws and turret cap screws? These turrets setup and adjust different from any scope I've previously used and maybe the internal screws or cap screws are slipping when I dial.

Edit: I found it, 8 in/lbs. I'll torque these using a wrench this time.
 
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Well I got my scope back. Vortex sent it via USPS two day shipping. Awesome!. The changed the elevation turret. Installed on the rifle and went to the back to bore sight in. The turret is working as it supose to be, stopping on zero then stopping again after 50 MOAs and 2 clicks up (I'm using a 20 MOA rail) clicks are very tactile and crispy. As I was bore sightning in had the time to compare again vs the PST G1 and I would say the glass is wayyyy better on the second generation.
I will be heading to the range this Saturday to finishing sight in at 100 yards and if I have time will test it thru 500 yards.
I would like to thanks Jen and Dave Delta Hotel from Vortex for taking their time helping me.
 
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