Night Vision Flir Breach PTQ136

[j-huskey]

I got about 30 minutes play time on this thing earlier this week.
It's much better image wise than a L3 MTM at a way lower price.

Since the only write up is Vicktor's announcement of the Flir upcoming items, this brings up question 1.

Have any of you guys been hands on with one yet ?

And Q2, anybody besides Vic handled the helmet mount ?

Sorry, no pics yet of it in use.

First impression was plastic body, but that was similar to my first impression of the LWTS plastic body... ( ? ) I haven't broken either of my LWTS's....

Second impression was "gonna suck running the menu wearing gloves in cold weather". Buttons are tough without gloves. Menu is pretty simple, but there's a lot of options, it's not just turn on and look.
I do like the palettes options. Somebody better at describing this needs to do it, not me, all I can say is, "this is nice and I like it..."

3rd impression was, I want a helmet mount and run this thing AWHILE!!!!!

It is VERY nice.... yes it is.

I was also happy playing with a PTS223 320, and am looking at putting one on the sbr for close in around the house. Flir is stepping up with these cores. Yay flir... ?

 

[Mormegil87]

I have a couple of questions as well.

1) How are they for movement? I don't want to be walking into trees or rocks.
2) Whats the detection range of the Breach and the PTS units?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have a couple of questions as well.

1) How are they for movement? I don't want to be walking into trees or rocks.
2) Whats the detection range of the Breach and the PTS units?

I've yet to use a thermal that was good for movement. They lack depth perception and also require a lot of focusing to be able to see something right in front of you and then further out. A PVS-14, dual 14's, or BNVD is a much better choice for moving around in the dark.

One of these mounted on a bridge mount along with a 14 would probably be a great setup for movement and detecting game. They are getting good feedback thus far and are the right size and weight for hanging off a helmet.

 

[Mormegil87]

I've yet to use a thermal that was good for movement. They lack depth perception and also require a lot of focusing to be able to see something right in front of you and then further out. A PVS-14, dual 14's, or BNVD is a much better choice for moving around in the dark.

One of these mounted on a bridge mount along with a 14 would probably be a great setup for movement and detecting game. They are getting good feedback thus far and are the right size and weight for hanging off a helmet.

I kind of figured they were similar to our TICs in the fire service. Great for detecting things, useless for moving through a structure with any kind of speed.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I kind of figured they were similar to our TICs in the fire service. Great for detecting things, useless for moving through a structure with any kind of speed.

If you want thermal and depth perception then it's going to come in a fusion device like the PSQ-20 or PSQ-36 and you probably don't want to know how much those cost. They also may not even be attainable on the civilian side. Another option is a COTI on a PVS-14. I've played with a COTI and a PSQ-20 briefly and IMO they were less than impressive in the thermal department at any sort of distance compared to a dedicated 640 core thermal.

You've got a Simrad which will be better than any thermal for IDing game so you'd probably be well served with something like the breach for detection. Then get yourself a PVS-14 or BNVD for movement. You can also get a PVS-7 for pretty cheap but they don't work nearly as well for nav as a 14.

 

[Dag34]

I have a PTS 233 but have been following along with breach and this is what I have gathered from reading.

The Breach units are being combined with PVS 14s in bridge mounts with the RQE being the most popular. The MUM dove tail on the breach unit is slightly out of spec ( it is slightly wider) so a bit of filing will bring it down to proper size. The orientation of the screen will be vertical when helmet mounted. Also the Breach unit, when used on the right side will almost max out the adjustment.

 

[j-huskey]

I was in a shopping center and up to 75-100 yards, breach seemed better than mtm. After 75-100, they seem the same.
Good info on mount @DaG.
Note on breech though, turned up or down, the pic rotates with the unit. Didn't look at it as a side mounted unit, even though it has three mount options. Didn't play that far.

I have two aka1 mounts and two older dovetail mounts, three of them fit the dovetails I have, one is real tight, would require relief, so the mount thing could get interesting.

I need to get breach back in hand for more time on the ground.

I tried COTI on a 14, and imo, it sucked.

 

[j-huskey]

Just a comment on Simrad, pvs22, pvs27, pvs30, and "better for id"....
Not in our AO. in pitch black darkness, ha, and with an illuminator, the bloom off anything between you and the "game" u seek, creates a masking effect that dissapears the "game", and on a highly humid night, the smoke from round one shuts down i/2 nv to the point it's useless for us. Note, I said my AO, and for us, ymmv...
Plus, with thermal, we find hider hogs in planted pines and foliage that shuts I/2 down to useless.

Now, on really bright nights and low to no humidity, i/2 has worked for us, but, the "game" can see u too under those conditions.

What would Indian Jim do....

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Just a comment on Simrad, pvs22, pvs27, pvs30, and "better for id"....
Not in our AO. in pitch black darkness, ha, and with an illuminator, the bloom off anything between you and the "game" u seek, creates a masking effect that dissapears the "game", and on a highly humid night, the smoke from round one shuts down i/2 nv to the point it's useless for us. Note, I said my AO, and for us, ymmv...
Plus, with thermal, we find hider hogs in planted pines and foliage that shuts I/2 down to useless.

Now, on really bright nights and low to no humidity, i/2 has worked for us, but, the "game" can see u too under those conditions.

What would Indian Jim do....

You’re mistaking ID for detecting. You’re not going to tell a fox from a yote from a dog beyond about 100 with thermal. A coyote vs hog vs deer of course because of body shape alone but not an actual ID between a species. With NV you can much further.

Detection, hands down thermal. Which is why I recommended a thermal for scanning.

 

[j-huskey]

@redneck. The night optics vulkan 320 and 640 are a different animal than most people are familiar with and our mileage is different from yours on identification.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

@redneck. The night optics vulkan 320 and 640 are a different animal than most people are familiar with and our mileage is different from yours on identification.

I’m familiar with night optics stuff as being mid grade to low end. I run FLIR, IRD/Trijicon, L3, and BAE... Pretty much the top tier units so I’m naturally doubting that something from night optics is going to perform as well as the top tier stuff and it doesn’t ID like true NV. Just look at the manufacturers ID range of the units.

 

[j-huskey]

Flir, IRD/Trijicon, L3, & BAE, got them just like you.
The pre-vulkan unit I have has outperformed 3 different Patrol XR's, so, my mileage is different from yours. It is what it is, I respect your experience and opinion, so, what drone are you using ? Help me out here.

I ready to graduate to a drone to locate faster in large areas..... helicopter spoiled me, and I can't afford a helicopter.

 

[Flip#1]

I just got one and is ok for CQB and close range the image is really good quality but by any means is not fo anything pass 100 meters. Is ok for helmet mounted operations with a dual setup pvs-14 and the breach.

 

[Mormegil87]

I just got one and is ok for CQB and close range the image is really good quality but by any means is not fo anything pass 100 meters. Is ok for helmet mounted operations with a dual setup pvs-14 and the breach.

Do you think a PVS-14 or even a TNVC sentinel set up would be a bit better for moving while on a hunt?

 

[Flip#1]

Do you think a PVS-14 or even a TNVC sentinel set up would be a bit better for moving while on a hunt?

I also have a set of sentinels and I love them. But to me the ultimate set up is. The pvs14 and the breach that way I can see where I am going and I can spot game with the thermal. Before I had to always move under nvg stop scan with the thermal and it makes too much noise. I hunt predators and some times you only have a sec to spot them before you get spotted. So to me my new tactic is the nvg and thermal set up. I am not carrying the hand held thermal. Just pvs14 and breach. On the weapon is what ever I feel like using that hunt reap ir, trail xp50 or lwts.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

I hate to rain on the parade for some of you but helmet mounted thermal in theory is way better than it actually is in real life. I’ve done it and it works yea, some may be able to handle it better than others. Me not so much. You won’t catch me with a thermal on my helmet. I’ve ran a patrol, UTM, skeet and the Mtm on my carbon team Hillary so I’ve had the experience with it. There are people here that do it regularly and my hat is off to you fellas but here’s my deal with it.

When you mount a thermal on a helmet you are mounting a LCD tv screen to your helmet. Standing on your back porch with it on and looking around for the first time is sure to put a smile on your face. But the minute you take off walking, no matter the helmet and mount, that tv screen will start shaking around from the vibration of your footsteps. Imagine trying to watch a video on your phone but the phone is moving. Try it, it doesn’t take much movement to get on your nerves. Night vision on the other hand isn’t a tv screen, your looking right through the tube at the image itself. So when your helmet vibrates around the image isn’t moving.

For you guys asking about navigating with thermal on your head, yes it works. If you insist on running thermal on your helmet for navigation I don’t recommend a 320 resolution unit. The resolution loss of a 320 will mean those thin twigs and such will be hitting you in the face more often because you simply didn’t see them. Honestly the image of a patrol is plenty “clear” enough for navigation. You can see blades of grass with it when your walking.

If your looking for a helmet mounted optic for navigating around in the dark get yourself a i2 unit. Hang your boson core flir (or whatever) around your neck and scan periodically for those critters.

Jay

 

[Mormegil87]

@Surgeon_Shooter thanks for the information. That’s the kind of review I’ve been looking for.

 

[cistercian]

I wonder how range compares to the LS-XR I have. It is a 17 micron 640 tau-2 core device and I love it.
The boson core in the breach is also made in 640 res so I don't understand why they have not come out
with one of those yet. The LS-XR is fantastic for finding critters and scanning. It can't be used for movement.
I have a pvs-14 L3 filmless white tube rig for that as well as ID.

 

[Flip#1]

I hate to rain on the parade for some of you but helmet mounted thermal in theory is way better than it actually is in real life. I’ve done it and it works yea, some may be able to handle it better than others. Me not so much. You won’t catch me with a thermal on my helmet. I’ve ran a patrol, UTM, skeet and the Mtm on my carbon team Hillary so I’ve had the experience with it. There are people here that do it regularly and my hat is off to you fellas but here’s my deal with it.

When you mount a thermal on a helmet you are mounting a LCD tv screen to your helmet. Standing on your back porch with it on and looking around for the first time is sure to put a smile on your face. But the minute you take off walking, no matter the helmet and mount, that tv screen will start shaking around from the vibration of your footsteps. Imagine trying to watch a video on your phone but the phone is moving. Try it, it doesn’t take much movement to get on your nerves. Night vision on the other hand isn’t a tv screen, your looking right through the tube at the image itself. So when your helmet vibrates around the image isn’t moving.

For you guys asking about navigating with thermal on your head, yes it works. If you insist on running thermal on your helmet for navigation I don’t recommend a 320 resolution unit. The resolution loss of a 320 will mean those thin twigs and such will be hitting you in the face more often because you simply didn’t see them. Honestly the image of a patrol is plenty “clear” enough for navigation. You can see blades of grass with it when your walking.

If your looking for a helmet mounted optic for navigating around in the dark get yourself a i2 unit. Hang your boson core flir (or whatever) around your neck and scan periodically for those critters.

Jay

I agree 100%. that’s why I say pvs14 and thermal combo one eye is for movement and the other for spotting once you I’d your target swing the thermal out and proceed to make your kill with the weapon mounted thermal optic. I feel this way gives me the advantage of spotting the gave while moving. But mounted thermal will never be for navigation is like

I wonder how range compares to the LS-XR I have. It is a 17 micron 640 tau-2 core device and I love it.
The boson core in the breach is also made in 640 res so I don't understand why they have not come out
with one of those yet. The LS-XR is fantastic for finding critters and scanning. It can't be used for movement.
I have a pvs-14 L3 filmless white tube rig for that as well as ID.

i think due to the screen being high resolution and 12 micron is hard to justify the price difference of 640. With the current setting is very impressive. Thecnolgy is not there yet I think in order to take advantage of the 640 unit you will be even higher resolution screen. Right now we are cap by the screen resolution the sensors are getting to a level that can’t be match by the screen. I think that’s why flir hasn’t released anything in the 640 line bc the screen can’t show what the sensor can provide. The new unit are quad vga 1280x960 I think for a 640 you need more than this resolution to make it worthy.

 

[j-huskey]

Last paragraph above, lots of truth.

 

[j-huskey]

We used breach past night on a 4 hour hunt. Under 200 yards, breach was better than mtm. After 200.... mtm. And that's the oldest mtm with lots of hours.
Weight, go breach.
Controls, go mtm.
Price point, go breach.
Hard use, drop and step on, run over, go mtm.
Breach is a very good buy first purchase item...........

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Agreed with j-huskey on his logic with the Breach.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

I agree 100%. that’s why I say pvs14 and thermal combo one eye is for movement and the other for spotting once you I’d your target swing the thermal out and proceed to make your kill with the weapon mounted thermal optic. I feel this way gives me the advantage of spotting the gave while moving. But mounted thermal will never be for navigation is like

i think due to the screen being high resolution and 12 micron is hard to justify the price difference of 640. With the current setting is very impressive. Thecnolgy is not there yet I think in order to take advantage of the 640 unit you will be even higher resolution screen. Right now we are cap by the screen resolution the sensors are getting to a level that can’t be match by the screen. I think that’s why flir hasn’t released anything in the 640 line bc the screen can’t show what the sensor can provide. The new unit are quad vga 1280x960 I think for a 640 you need more than this resolution to make it worthy.

The RQE Bridge mount will allow the independent either/or swing away functions of 14 and Breach very well. Some like the function of having both on ones melon and the ease using one or the other with simply flipping one to the side. I am still old school and wear duals or single PVS and have hand held thermal around my neck. The good news is all the great choices we have nowadays.

The RQE stuff is incredibly well engineered but pricey.

 

[Flip#1]

The RQE Bridge mount will allow the independent either/or swing away functions of 14 and Breach very well. Some like the function of having both on ones melon and the ease using one or the other with simply flipping one to the side. I am still old school and wear duals or single PVS and have hand held thermal around my neck. The good news is all the great choices we have nowadays.

The RQE stuff is incredibly well engineered but pricey.

I am waiting on my req bridge you guys said end of March. I have a order true you guys I purchased the breach and the mount. I am Felipe the guy who got the nicked unit from flir you guys are trying to resolve the issue.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Yep, we even have the GM of FLIR looking at pics you sent. It will be taken care of. Thanks for writing.