For hunting: faster and lighter or slower and heavier?

[roostercogburn98]

Hi. It depends. But I don’t believe you can over think it. I have harvested a lot of animals for research, and in most studies it required DRT without damaging the sample areas (i.e. vital organs). Bullet specification and performance was essential, and different, in each case.

Those studies (and my collaborators) also taught me: 1) every person with a firearm and/or copy of Field & Stream or Guns & Ammo is an “expert”, 2) don’t ever argue with the “experts”, and 3) to listen closely to those same “experts” because their observations often reveal details that can be used or tested.

Finally and most important, most hunters care more about animals and ethics than many will ever know. Give them good data/information and they will put it to good use.

See now this is interesting to me. The information that would be gathered could overshadow the focus on accuracy driven goals, I won’t call it tunnel vision because this is an accuracy forum. I’d be interested to know the course of study or reasoning with what you talk about. Is it projectile development, game study, or something else?

I believe most hunters are fairly ethical and want to do right by the animal overall. I have seen a few that made me question otherwise, but I do my part and do not get wrapped up in that bad business.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

See now this is interesting to me. The information that would be gathered could overshadow the focus on accuracy driven goals, I won’t call it tunnel vision because this is an accuracy forum. I’d be interested to know the course of study or reasoning with what you talk about. Is it projectile development, game study, or something else?

I believe most hunters are fairly ethical and want to do right by the animal overall. I have seen a few that made me question otherwise, but I do my part and do not get wrapped up in that bad business.

Hi. It varied by study: ammo testing, disease studies, resource utilization, and forensics. One was policy driven, but the results were used to provide information to hunters. The latter was quite controversial, but desperately needed.

So yes, accuracy was required too obtain most of the samples, but was not the focus. And to be fair, ammo companies and the shooting/hunting public typically cover accuracy pretty well (competition shooting generates lots of info on accuracy). It is the testing requiring specific instrumentation, necropsies, experimental design, statistical analyses, and scholarly review that gets funding. Some results go back to the client only, some gets republished in popular media, and some gets published in scientific and/or legal journals.

For instance most of what we know about food preferences in game species comes from hunter harvested animals. Others require animals harvested in specific areas for subsequent testing (e.g., avian influenza, heavy metal contamination, etc). Others require blood, tissue, feces or other sampling, but are catch and release. And some require careful harvest to avoid sample loss (some disease studies). All require a number of permits, and usually require cooperation from multiple agencies. And sometimes...it can be quite a PITA (lots of “experts”).

Hope that helps.

 

[Holliday]

Maybe I’m crazy, but am I the only one who think some people truly overthink a hunting bullets accuracy acceptability? Do I really need to have a .25-.99 five shot group to hunt a medium to large game in North America?

Great question. One worth asking. For my hunting rifle 3 shot groups is my benchmark. I try not to get into protracted firefights while hunting. But yes, I want to sqeeze my equipment for all it is worth. I want to see 1/2 moa or less in three shots every time I check zero.

Just because you are grouping .5 at the range does not mean you are shooting that in the field. So if you shoot 1 moa in the field and your rifle shoots 1 moa that is potentially a 2 moa cone of fire. Now throw environmentals, wind etc.

Here in Wyoming we deal with a lot of extreemes while hunting in terms of range, environmentals, wind etc. it all stacks up.

I can’t speak for anyone else but equipment performance is key to my confidence. Confidence is key to my mindset in the field. My mental preparedness is bolstered buy developing a relationship with my firearm through the process of making it shoot well. “Zen and the art of”, if you will......

 

[roostercogburn98]

Hi. It varied by study: ammo testing, disease studies, resource utilization, and forensics. One was policy driven, but the results were used to provide information to hunters. The latter was quite controversial, but desperately needed.

So yes, accuracy was required too obtain most of the samples, but was not the focus. And to be fair, ammo companies and the shooting/hunting public typically cover accuracy pretty well (competition shooting generates lots of info on accuracy). It is the testing requiring specific instrumentation, necropsies, experimental design, statistical analyses, and scholarly review that gets funding. Some results go back to the client only, some gets republished in popular media, and some gets published in scientific and/or legal journals.

For instance most of what we know about food preferences in game species comes from hunter harvested animals. Others require animals harvested in specific areas for subsequent testing (e.g., avian influenza, heavy metal contamination, etc). Others require blood, tissue, feces or other sampling, but are catch and release. And some require careful harvest to avoid sample loss (some disease studies). All require a number of permits, and usually require cooperation from multiple agencies. And sometimes...it can be quite a PITA (lots of “experts”).

Hope that helps.

Interesting for sure. I can see the point, animal science is still sort of an unknown for a lot of the wild population it would seem. Good to know there are people researching this and making sure the evolution and survival is there for other generations to come.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Great question. One worth asking. For my hunting rifle 3 shot groups is my benchmark. I try not to get into protracted firefights while hunting. But yes, I want to sqeeze my equipment for all it is worth. I want to see 1/2 moa or less in three shots every time I check zero.

Just because you are grouping .5 at the range does not mean you are shooting that in the field. So if you shoot 1 moa in the field and your rifle shoots 1 moa that is potentially a 2 moa cone of fire. Now throw environmentals, wind etc.

Here in Wyoming we deal with a lot of extreemes while hunting in terms of range, environmentals, wind etc. it all stacks up.

I can’t speak for anyone else but equipment performance is key to my confidence. Confidence is key to my mindset in the field. My mental preparedness is bolstered buy developing a relationship with my firearm through the process of making it shoot well. “Zen and the art of”, if you will......

Understood completely and agree completely. Equipment proficiency and comfortability are utmost and require a lot of discipline and dedication to master. I’m not knocking guys who shoot or strive to shoot exceptionally well. I try to do my best as well. Thank you for the adult response and your take on it.

 

[308pirate]

Hey guys,
for a more deep penetration, same caliber, same barrel, would it be better to use a lighter and faster bullet, or to use a heavier and slower bullet?

Because of inertia, I would guess a heavier but slower bullet would penetrate deeper, but what do I know.

Don't they have an uber complicated and long training course and exam to be able to hunt in Germany?

Shouldn't they have covered this in your training?

 

[Rthur]

500 grain arrow will kill damned near anything in NA and potentially the Yukon and beyond.
Shot placement dependent.
I heard they are moving a bit slower than bullets.
This is a clue ^^^.

R

 

[powdahound76]

Oh come on.
that science stuff is made up.

All fake news.

 

[Jayjay1]

Don't they have an uber complicated and long training course and exam to be able to hunt in Germany?

Shouldn't they have covered this in your training?

Yes, it is complicated and much to learn.
I´m enjoying most of it, maybe without the laws and regulations.
But this is one question which is still discussed controversial, so I wanted to get some profound information, which I´ve got finally.

And yes, you have to pass an exame to get the hunter permit here.
Is it "Über-" or not?
I don´t know, you learn a lot about nature and wildlife, tradition etc..

I think there´s always an "uber" and "under" from a different point of view.
I´m smiling when I see 16- to 20-year old Americans, drinking in public and showing their bottles to adults.

Open your mind.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Shot placement.
If you have doubts on where that round will hit, change location or get closer.
A single lethal round, that's my idea of humane hunting.
The ELD-X 143GR is my new "go to" projectile.
It's great at the range, and devastating on ferals.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Use enough car .

 

[deersniper]

, most hunters care more about animals and ethics than many will ever kno

Unless it’s a Varmint / coyote / pig / wolf it’s a ok to shoot them anywhere and let them run off and die.

I have a lot more respect for a coyote or fox ofer a long legged over populated disease carrying rat

 

[Charger442]

Sharps 45-70

It is a weapon of uncanny power and precision

 

[TriggerJerk!]

Col./Dr. Martin Fackler is no longer with us, but he contributed a career of information on terminal ballistics. Here are a couple of useful links (below).

Terminal Ballistics

Wound Ballistics, Ballistic Injury, Stopping Power, Gunshot Wounds

 

[roostercogburn98]

Sharps 45-70

It is a weapon of uncanny power and precision

Well this guy is in the line up. 405g cast lead show stoppers in the breech when it goes boom.

 

[Major Wader]

If I never hunted for a trophy, I would always shoot a .22-250 or a .257 Roberts and earhole everything.

A 60 grain Nosler Partition at 3500 FPS will end a critter quick, as will a 100 grain Accubond at about 3100.

Since I do hunt for both meat and trophies, I am partial to a .280 Ackley throwing a 150 grain Accubond at 3150, or a .264 Win Mag throwing a 140 grain Berger at similar speed.

Personally, I hate coyotes. Not native East of the Mississippi, and I kill every one I can. One of the few critters that I will randomly sling a shot at. Fawn eating bastards.