If they can setup arbitrary rules on forms to deny people, they can keep incrementing the rules so that no one ever passes their test. Start with form 1 to set precedent, then move onto the others. Eventually no one will pass any of their checks on anything.
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Form 1 supressors mass denial.
- Thread starter Maxduty
- Start date
If they can setup arbitrary rules on forms to deny people, they can keep incrementing the rules so that no one ever passes their test. Start with form 1 to set precedent, then move onto the others. Eventually no one will pass any of their checks on anything.
The algorithm is strong today. Was reading this thread when this showed up.
Don't worry, the new streamlined eform 4 system will have your mount approved in 60-90 days! Any law abiding citizen should be willing to wait a couple months if it means everyone else is a safer. God forbid an end cap get into the wrong hands and cause a mass shooting.
Not shocked, the owner was an assclown when I dealt with him.
What is the mass crossing of the southern boarder by people who are not entering the country legally? A few would be a problem. With close to or over 1M, I would call that an invasion.
Is that supposed to be a argument in defense of the feds? Id say they are the cuase there not the solution. Im sure texans would be more than happy to stop it if the fed gtfo of their way
There would also be a lot of non-Texans that would be willing to demonstrate some of their skill sets to assist.
Thank goodness.
Between this, the ghost gun crackdown in NYC, and Joe eliminating assault weapons and high cap mags, I feel safer already.
Between this, the ghost gun crackdown in NYC, and Joe eliminating assault weapons and high cap mags, I feel safer already.
Was posted elsewhere. These are going out to current form 1 application folks.
-Amazon.com
-A lathe
Any other questions?
Attachments
Dear sirs;
I have no parts because I need the legal documentation before obtaining them.
I plan to acquire raw billet stock once I receive permission to do so.
I cannot draw up any plans for said device as I do not have permission to do so from you (the BATFE) and I can only assume a drawing might be illegal per recent BATFE actions.
Can I assign it a serial number, model number, or part name, or do I have to await permission to do that also ?
I am very leery of breaking the law and as we both know it changes moment to moment based upon which ever agent is tending my specific case and their mental and/or emotional state at any specific moment.
Is it OK to even be writing out these questions or is that best handled by a lawyer that is held to strictest client/attorney contractual silence ?
Thus, I present my application and payment of a $200 tax stamp to be issued in accordance with the law to allow the purchase of raw materials to be reshaped in a specific manner.
That about cover it ?
I have no parts because I need the legal documentation before obtaining them.
I plan to acquire raw billet stock once I receive permission to do so.
I cannot draw up any plans for said device as I do not have permission to do so from you (the BATFE) and I can only assume a drawing might be illegal per recent BATFE actions.
Can I assign it a serial number, model number, or part name, or do I have to await permission to do that also ?
I am very leery of breaking the law and as we both know it changes moment to moment based upon which ever agent is tending my specific case and their mental and/or emotional state at any specific moment.
Is it OK to even be writing out these questions or is that best handled by a lawyer that is held to strictest client/attorney contractual silence ?
Thus, I present my application and payment of a $200 tax stamp to be issued in accordance with the law to allow the purchase of raw materials to be reshaped in a specific manner.
That about cover it ?
I have more thoughts to add based on some developments.
First, I had two form 1 cans pending. One was flat out disapproved based on the mass denial language everyone else received. This was a .22 can.
The second pending approval is a .223 can. I received the above email yesterday asking for new info in order to obtain approval.
Might be paranoid thinking, but I don't think this is a random occurrence in disapproving the .22 and asking for more info for the .223 can.
It would seem by asking for more info direct to the .223 can, they are asking us to narc on who we bought our kits from so they can then go in and shut those guys down. The ATF knows there's thousands of folks with the machines to produce suppressors commercially. They obviously want to know who they are and what they offer in order to shut them down.
Why else the picking and choosing of which of my cans get approved based on follow up info?
First, I had two form 1 cans pending. One was flat out disapproved based on the mass denial language everyone else received. This was a .22 can.
The second pending approval is a .223 can. I received the above email yesterday asking for new info in order to obtain approval.
Might be paranoid thinking, but I don't think this is a random occurrence in disapproving the .22 and asking for more info for the .223 can.
It would seem by asking for more info direct to the .223 can, they are asking us to narc on who we bought our kits from so they can then go in and shut those guys down. The ATF knows there's thousands of folks with the machines to produce suppressors commercially. They obviously want to know who they are and what they offer in order to shut them down.
Why else the picking and choosing of which of my cans get approved based on follow up info?
I'm expecting the cost of a tax stamp to go to $2000.00 in the very near future.
The ATF can't change that and it's more likely that if the Democrats had enough of a lock on the government to change that law, they wouldn't bother hiking the price, they'd just ban them outright.
I don't. They make way too much money off the current tax stamp price. If they price the peasants out, there won't be enough shooters that can justify the price to fund them.
Now bumping it to $300? $500? Maybe...
This right here! They are now asking everyone to narc out where they got their supplies from so they don't have to do the hard work of trying to figure out who is out there selling these kits.
They want the customer lists of EVERYONE that has bought a solvent trap.
This is getting beyond ridiculous.
I think it's pretty clear what they eventually want and the writing is on the wall for anyone who was engaged in the business of selling "kits" and anyone who legally built one.
The only chance to turn this around is a significant change in political power AND the Republicans actually breaking form and doing something positive for the people that voted for them (even less likely).
BUT this is NOT the big event, this is a dry run for the big event.
The big event is going after 80% lowers for building your own ARs once they pass their new "regulation interpretation" that makes an AR upper housing also considered part of the "firearm" in combination with the lower.
Just because the DemonRats haven't openly passed new laws banning guns, doesn't mean they aren't having all their vile stooges in the administrative branch of the government try to do the same thing by decree and rule making. And good luck getting the Republicans to do much other than ask for money.
I got the same email as above today. I sent my reply telling them I didn't have pics because I don't have any materials yet. I did list the metal store where I will buy the stock and tubing, since they asked. Not sure why they'd care where I bought bar stock and tubing unless they do plan to collect info on "kit " makers. Told them of how I will use a lathe to turn and thread pipe and turn down baffles and that I will use a mill to clip. We'll see what they say. Interesting to see if their plan is to deny all f-1's. Thinking I better just go buy another couple on f-4's and not deal with the hassle. Fun to make f-1's but if its that big of a problem now, not sure if its worth it.
I asked if they wanted this information and they just re did the e-forms site, why we weren't asked for it then. My f-1 was submitted on 10/18/21 so Im a little annoyed at this point.
I asked if they wanted this information and they just re did the e-forms site, why we weren't asked for it then. My f-1 was submitted on 10/18/21 so Im a little annoyed at this point.
I sent mine in on Oct. 1, and got my approved stamp in an email roughly 3 weeks later. Once I had the stamp and forwarded it - Quietbore mailed me the kit to finish.
You have my sympathies for your upcoming loss.
QB will be turning over their customer list to the ATF and the ATF will be "allowing" you to forfeit the item you paid for and paid them a tax for.
Maybe.
Then how long before they come after Form 4 suppressors also?
Same tax paid.
Same purpose.
since they make the rules AND interpret them, the old "oops we shouldn't have allowed this before even though we did. give it up now or you're a felon" is coming to everyone that is on those customer lists.
F4's are built by SOT's (who pay tax) and are in the clear. What the ATF doesn't want is for F1 to be easily attainable for the average citizen to build their own on or off the books. They realize that where things are going, the off the books jobs will happen more and more so they want to crack down on that
Off the books jobs?
Millions of people have the resources and equipment and skills to manufacture their own suppressors - if they actually wanted to.
I do not see where allowing manufacturers to make kits, providing a legal source for them through the Form 1 structure, and employing people and providing jobs is a bad thing. "Cracking Down" on a muffler is freakin' stupid to begin with.
That will only happen when they go for the full grab.
Form 1 is low hanging fruit they can grab by "interpretation"
Eventually they will come for all the rest by legislation when they have the numbers.
What is most likely to happen is that solvent trap manufacturers that want to stay in business either transition to suppressor manufacturers, or ‘suppressor kit’ manufacturers- both of which do or will transfer on a form 4.
Based on the research I did and never followed up on, buying materials for a quality form 1 suppressor didn’t save much money vs buying a finished form4 suppressor. What really drives/drove demand for form1 building is/was the short approval times.
Here’s my hope for a ‘silver lining’ to this whole mess. Diversified Machine and all of the other ‘solvent trap’ manufacturers get their collective dicks slapped by the ATF. They take that like men/women/toasters/whatever they identify as and pay their special occupation tax to become suppressor manufacturers. They all come out of the shadows to build either finished suppressors, or form 4 kits ready for final assembly at home. They then go further and supply actual customer service and support. And, they all drop the silly battery based sizing scheme.
More than anything else, what kept me from buying into Form 1 suppressors was the frustration of not being able to get all parts from one vendor, not being absolutely sure that parts from vendor A would fit with parts from vendor B, and the veil of secrecy that kept all vendors from providing any CS to their customers. While the extended waits of the Form 4 vs the eForm 1 do suck, the eForm 4 process promises to bring that down to 2-3 months. The jury is still out on that, but I’m told that “hope is a plan.”
Here’s my hope for a ‘silver lining’ to this whole mess. Diversified Machine and all of the other ‘solvent trap’ manufacturers get their collective dicks slapped by the ATF. They take that like men/women/toasters/whatever they identify as and pay their special occupation tax to become suppressor manufacturers. They all come out of the shadows to build either finished suppressors, or form 4 kits ready for final assembly at home. They then go further and supply actual customer service and support. And, they all drop the silly battery based sizing scheme.
More than anything else, what kept me from buying into Form 1 suppressors was the frustration of not being able to get all parts from one vendor, not being absolutely sure that parts from vendor A would fit with parts from vendor B, and the veil of secrecy that kept all vendors from providing any CS to their customers. While the extended waits of the Form 4 vs the eForm 1 do suck, the eForm 4 process promises to bring that down to 2-3 months. The jury is still out on that, but I’m told that “hope is a plan.”
I still have to wonder why a background check for form 4 takes longer than form 1?
I agree with this completely, if they could get the wait time on form 4s down to 2 months I think the Form 1s for suppressors almost goes away on it's own. A few people really want to build their own because they can, some think they can do it on the cheap, but most just don't want to wait a year before they can play.
It’s government.
They have never had any issues with hiring more help, or expanding their empire.... when it suits them.
