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Yeah, but to facilitate future stuff going to heirs, I would make a trust for future items, list only one beneficiary, and then in the future it it's pretty full and you don't plan on adding anything to it for a while, add "responsible persons" if you want to share items with them. If not, leave it with just beneficiary. Or you can keep adding amendments removing and adding responsible persons, but I've always been afraid ATF would frown on this. However Goldman told me there's nothing wrong with doing it.
Last I knew, everytime you purchase something everyone on your trust must do paperwork. Could be wrong but remember it is the government. Complicates everything!!
It is not “everyone in your trust”, it is all “responsible persons“. A beneficiary is not a responsible person, but other trustees generally are. That is why my advice is to have a trust with just a beneficiary so that you don’t have to dick around with paperwork for seven trustees each time you submit for an item which is cumbersome, impracticable and unnecessary.
There are two ways around that: first is to have a trust eg “gun trust #1” that you fill up with a certain number of items - say five 10, 20, whatever - then add trustees or other responsible persons as an amendment after their stamp approval, but don’t add other items to the trust through the ATF after the date of that amendment,. To add new items, start a new trust such as “gun trust #two” or whatever. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum
The other way, according to one of the original, and most prominent lawyers providing gun trusts, is to make an amendment, say, amendment number five, that removes all of the trustees prior to submitting for a new item. Then after the new item(s) is approved by the ATF, make amendment number six, adding the trustees right back on. It is obviously a loophole, but apparently the ATF can’t do a damn thing about it according to that lawyer.
There are two ways around that: first is to have a trust eg “gun trust #1” that you fill up with a certain number of items - say five 10, 20, whatever - then add trustees or other responsible persons as an amendment after their stamp approval, but don’t add other items to the trust through the ATF after the date of that amendment,. To add new items, start a new trust such as “gun trust #two” or whatever. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum
The other way, according to one of the original, and most prominent lawyers providing gun trusts, is to make an amendment, say, amendment number five, that removes all of the trustees prior to submitting for a new item. Then after the new item(s) is approved by the ATF, make amendment number six, adding the trustees right back on. It is obviously a loophole, but apparently the ATF can’t do a damn thing about it according to that lawyer.
Well, y’all are going to hate me, but I just had 4 cans approved this morning. First three were submitted 4/12/23 and the 4th was submitted 5/17/23. 53 days and 18 days. To say I was surprised is an understatement. All Form 4s submitted as a Trust with 1 RP.
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Submitted 12/02/22
Approved 5/23/23
eForm 4, trust with 1 RP
172 days total
Two pending forms outstanding at this time.
Approved 5/23/23
eForm 4, trust with 1 RP
172 days total
Two pending forms outstanding at this time.
This is what @Raider4044 looks like in real life. So now we know why the 4 cans were approved at lightning speed. Congratulations.
The trust times are getting faster! Hopefully my Polonium will come back soon! It’s at 138 days right now. And the 3 others after that are all spaced about 30 days apart. Maybe they’ll do a batch?
Would be nice.
Seemed anomalous to me, frankly. There’s clearly no rhyme or reason though.The trust times are getting faster! Hopefully my Polonium will come back soon! It’s at 138 days right now. And the 3 others after that are all spaced about 30 days apart. Maybe they’ll do a batch?
I’m sure it was. That said, one can also hope, but not expect, for an anomaly.
I have a 12/21/22 certified can, so this is kind of exciting to hear, even though I am fully aware mine could still be several months out, but it's encouraging to see at least a few folks doing relatively well on approval times.
There are actually quite a few batch approvals coming through on the approval megathread on Reddit.The trust times are getting faster! Hopefully my Polonium will come back soon! It’s at 138 days right now. And the 3 others after that are all spaced about 30 days apart. Maybe they’ll do a batch?
My brother in law had a batch of seven approved last week.
WOW! Certainly luck of the draw! I submitted on 5/21/23. Whoever approved yours must have been new. They'll be sent back for re-training or fired for failure to adapt, but congrats!
Form 4 Trust, approved today at 6:14am Central.
Was hoping for a batch approval, but no such luck
9/26/22 submitted
6/7/23 approved
Still waiting
1 - 1/14/23
5 - 4/13/23
Was hoping for a batch approval, but no such luck
9/26/22 submitted
6/7/23 approved
Still waiting
1 - 1/14/23
5 - 4/13/23
Attachments
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Congrats man September that’s great. August here patiently waitingForm 4 Trust, approved today at 6:14am Central.
Was hoping for a batch approval, but no such luck
9/26/22 submitted
6/7/23 approved
Still waiting
1 - 1/14/23
5 - 4/13/23
Shoulda answered those phone calls about the extended warranty.I didn’t get my atf eform email yet but my truck was getting an oil change today and I got the call that my transmission was shot. Luckily my warranty ran out about 5k miles ago
Eform 4 SingleShot Trust Supressor
Submitted 11/28 Approved 6/6
190 Days
This had previously been submitted and withdrawn via Eform when I moved states. Don’t be jealous of the wait time - I ordered this from TBAC in April of 2021. One of the last Gen 1 338 Ultras.
I have another one that submitted 12/21/2022 that is still pending.
Submitted 11/28 Approved 6/6
190 Days
This had previously been submitted and withdrawn via Eform when I moved states. Don’t be jealous of the wait time - I ordered this from TBAC in April of 2021. One of the last Gen 1 338 Ultras.
I have another one that submitted 12/21/2022 that is still pending.
Yup.
Under a month into my wait time (for 1st Suppressor, Omega 300) and ordered Rex .50BMG and .338 cans yesterday o.0
3 from 12/27/22 Efile with mailed in finger print cards
4 from 5/10/23 Efile with EFT files
This gives me hope.
I originally filed on the 23rd but efile deleted my info because of a problem with efile at the time.
Finally got it certified on the 6th so there is hope. Well at least false hope with the way the atf is going.
I originally filed on the 23rd but efile deleted my info because of a problem with efile at the time.
Finally got it certified on the 6th so there is hope. Well at least false hope with the way the atf is going.
Why TF can’t I get that lucky? I’ve got 4 pending, and the longest is at 145 days, but they’re all 30 days (or less) apart from each other. I sure hope this happens to mine!
the batch approvals are all over the place. no ryhme or reason.
only thing i can think is that ATF/NFA is cherry picking a bunch of random forms to manipulate their wait time numbers. who knows.
Certified 10/15/22
Approved 6/12/23
SST
2 certified the same day at the same time but only 1 approved.
Approved 6/12/23
SST
2 certified the same day at the same time but only 1 approved.
Congratulations. We’re all seven submitted on a single traditional trust or seven individual single shot trusts?
How many did you get approved via single shot trusts at the same time and what was longest and shortest time in days to approval of the group? To be clear, I am speaking of single shot trusts with different submission dates not say six submitted on the same day and those six being approved on the same day.
It is clear in this thread and the Reddit NFA subreddit going back to the “20 can man” approval (a few pages back in this thread) and others with 13, 12 9, 7 and 6 etc. cans submitted via a traditional trust coming back approved on the same date in the low two-digits to 200 plus days under a respective traditional trust only.
There seems to be a misunderstanding, I noted, “still the same” as in the current, present time that traditional trusts that are submitted via eform (not paper submissions) are the only type of trust that are being batch approved now.
You are speaking of an event from January 2022, which is 18 months old and yes, going back then when paper submissions were common, batch approvals did occur when submissions in queue were four or five or more IIRC, but still not guaranteed, you were one of the lucky ones. Some of those batch approvals back then were even the individual paper submission type.
As far as your examiner not getting the memo, now 18 months later, I am sure they have gotten the memo as it is clear that traditional trusts via eforms are the only form of submission that is getting batch approved from different submission dates and the few examiners doing batch approvals are reserved for supervisors as noted in posts from this thread and on the NFA subreddit thread.
Similar threads
Suppressors
Form 4, no ATF signature
