Frustrated Deciding on 1x Scope!

[SeanE]

I'm researching 1x scopes and finding it frustrating. I'm a little bit of an optics snob. From high end camera lenses to scopes. The only 1x I've had in the past was a Swaro Z6i 1x6. Top quality glass but it just never felt "right." I sold it years ago. I am looking for a 1x8 or the right 1x6, to move from a few 5.56 AR's to 6.8 AR's. It won't be used on any calibers higher than 6.8. I plan on a LaRue or Nightforce mount. I currently have an ACOG on an LMT mono and a Conquests in a LaRue mount that moves around and a Nightforce NSX in a Nightforce mount.

Intended use is 5.56 and 6.8 with some quick acquisition 50 meters and 100 meters with some bench time at 100 meters. At times 200 meters. This is not intended for anything longer range.

I'd like to stay around 2k but would go higher if necessary. But law of diminishing returns is a harsh reality with high end glass. Difficult without having them in front of you with diopter adjusted and taking a look. I'm getting on 50 and the eyes have declines since about 44 years old. I have a stigmatism in one eye but no glasses yet!!

These are the ones I have been looking into. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I was looking Nightforce NX8 but got scared away reading some complaints of a tight eyebox.

Kahles K16i
Zeiss Conquest
Nightforce NX8
Nightforce ATACR
Trijicon Credo

 

[ermahgerd]

I'd add the Razor Gen III 1-10 to your list.

 

[lennyo3034]

Swarovski and Kahles are sister companies and their 1-6 scopes are the same optical design.

 

[Center Mass]

I'm researching 1x scopes and finding it frustrating. I'm a little bit of an optics snob. From high end camera lenses to scopes. The only 1x I've had in the past was a Swaro Z6i 1x6. Top quality glass but it just never felt "right." I sold it years ago. I am looking for a 1x8 or the right 1x6, to move from a few 5.56 AR's to 6.8 AR's. It won't be used on any calibers higher than 6.8. I plan on a LaRue or Nightforce mount. I currently have an ACOG on an LMT mono and a Conquests in a LaRue mount that moves around and a Nightforce NSX in a Nightforce mount.

Intended use is 5.56 and 6.8 with some quick acquisition 50 meters and 100 meters with some bench time at 100 meters. At times 200 meters. This is not intended for anything longer range.

I'd like to stay around 2k but would go higher if necessary. But law of diminishing returns is a harsh reality with high end glass. Difficult without having them in front of you with diopter adjusted and taking a look. I'm getting on 50 and the eyes have declines since about 44 years old. I have a stigmatism in one eye but no glasses yet!!

These are the ones I have been looking into. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I was looking Nightforce NX8 but got scared away reading some complaints of a tight eyebox.

Kahles K16i
Zeiss Conquest
Nightforce NX8
Nightforce ATACR
Trijicon Credo

Kahles 1-6 -. Great glass and light. I had the SM1 reticle, it was just ok. Probably would have like the 3GR better.

Nightforce NX8 - I have had one of these for a few months now. I REALLY like the size and weight. Glass is good bit it does get a tad darker at 8x. Red dot bright illumination was high on the list for me and it does it perfectly. Most complain about the center dot size but it's fine with me. My only complain is I wish the segmented circle was further away from the center by maybe a half mil or so. It clutters the target area too much at longer ranges IMHO. But overall it's probably my favorite LPVO right now...

ATACR- Basically same as above but with better glass and capped turrets. I like to be able to dial if necessary so I kinda lean towards the NX8.

Credo- I really like these scopes, very robust and great glass especially at lower magnifications. Reticle is good and they have locking turrets that can be re-zeroed without tools...a big plus. Good illumination bit not red dot bright by any means. By far the biggest downfall, for me anyway, is the weight penalty at over 26 oz....

Nope this helps,
CM

 

[TheHorta]

Vortex G3 1-10 or March 1-10 Shorty.

/thread

 

[aslrookie]

I really dig my NF ATACR. I have the new DMX reticle which I would recommend. I originally had this on my LMT 11.5” SBR, but the ATACR really needs to be on a 12.5”+ barrel. I moved the ATACR to my 16” rifle where it feels much more at home.

The red dot is really bright. I’ve never had the illumination higher than 7 and there’s 10 levels and NV settings. I usually keep the brightness on 6 or 7 for a clear sunny day. The glass is really good, and I can clearly see targets at 200 yards at night using a white light.

If you don’t need a bomb proof optic, then I’d say skip the ATACR and get something a little cheaper like the vortex 1-10. The ATACR is an awesome optic, but you pay top dollar for it too. It did win the SOCOM contract.

 

[SeanE]

Thank you all for the information.

 

[Gasgun]

I’ve got the ATACR on a SCAR 17 and love it, but I think that it’s overkill for 200 and in.
I don’t think that FFP has any advantage over SFP at those ranges, either.

I have a 14.5” 5.56 AR with a Razor HD-IIE/RMR combo that works well for the kind of use that you are planning.
The RMR is fast out to 50. Cranking the mag on the Razor to about 2X allows me to hit a little quicker and a little more accurately at 100 or so.

6X is plenty of mag for 200 yards. I shoot mine regularly out to 400.

The Razor’s reticle is kind of meh for extended ranges, but with a 50/200 zero and 5.56, there is no holding or dialing.

 

[GreenMushroom]

If you want to save a few bucks europtic has the non e razor g2 1-6 for 900$. Weight isn't nearly as bad as i thought. Glass is nice, illumination is nuclear bright, and the eyebox is amazing. Has a nice flat image behind a clip on as well.

 

[SeanE]

I am not in an area to be able to handle or try out various scopes. I have a few Nightforce NX7's from years ago and they have proven bullet proof and IMHO an excellent optic. I figure a high probability I will like the NF NX8. Ordered it and a NF ultralite one piece mount. Should arrive mid week. Good kick in the ass to get out in the cold and shoot. Single digits coming this week. I'll need all the motivation possible!!

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You will like the NX8.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Its Easy. Here is the Order from best to worst:

S&B CC Dual
Razor Gen 3
NF ATACR
MK8
NF NX8
S&B 1-4 Shortdot.

Daylight bright Dot that can be used on 1x like an aimpoint or Eotech is the single most important feature. This alone excludes 90% of the products on the market. You could run a RMR or T1 in an offset but you will end up spending as much as getting a quality optic in the first place.

If you can afford the S&B (and make sure its the top model, they have 2), do it. If not, you really can't beat the razor G3 for overall package, and its about half the price of the S&B. If you can only spend about $1K I would go with the Eotech or make the compromise and run the Gen 2 razor which is SFP but everything else except for weight and reticle are excellent. Trijicon has yet to make a daylight bright LPV so none of them are worth buying. The NX8 is small and light but has a small eyebox and terrible reticle and so so glass. MK8 is dated and is 1.1x but its bright and has a very good reticle. ATACR should be $1700 and NX8 should be $1K. G3 Razor at 1.7-2K stomps the shit out of both. The Shortdot is 20 years old and no where near the value of the newer stuff considering features, but its the OG LPV and deserves respect. It has all the must have features although its only 4x and reticle leaves something to desire. Can run custom turrets for your loads.

I haven't run the March or some of the more exotics but they may be worth a look.

Nothing else worth buying IMO. Maybe the new Eotech depending on how it shakes out. FFP, Daylight Bright Illumination/Dot, and a good Tree Reticle. I have owned just about everything else out there and sold them all for one reason or another. Buris, Bushnel, Leopold, Trijicon, Kahles, Swaro, Steiner, cheaper vortexs, NX4, ect ect ect. The list above is about the closest advice to reality you will get.

 

[1911hombre]

ATACR should be $1700 and NX8 should be $1K. G3 Razor at 1.7-2K stomps the shit out of both

I agree.^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[JDB55]

The only question you may want to ask or answer yourself is whether you want ffp or sfp? Well also weight and illumination brightness. That will help. Most of the higher end stuff has been covered so I won't touch it. The gen 2 E razor 1-6x24 is really everything you want or need in a sfp lpvo IMO. It was out of my budget though so I went with the well reviewed Japanese made Delta Stryker 1-6x24, its not quite razor level, but it's close and nuclear bright and was half the price when I bought it. Both the Burris XTR II 1-8x24 ffp or sfp are also really good. The sfp is nuclear bright and is really awesome, I would put it up there with the razor gen 2 E 1-6 but it's a tad heavier(these are no longer in production so you have to go to the used market). Primary Arms just reworked their PLx FFP 1-8x24 and brought the weight way down which is a good option, also Tract optics just released their 1-8x24 sfp LPVO which looks promising. Just throwing out some other options I've looked at as one who can't really go over the $1300-1500 mark. Good luck and again deciding on ffp or sfp, weight allowances and also daylight bright or nuclear bright reticle being necessary or not really will help you in your final decision.

 

[SeanE]

Its Easy. Here is the Order from best to worst:

S&B CC Dual
Razor Gen 3
NF ATACR
MK8
NF NX8
S&B 1-4 Shortdot.

Daylight bright Dot that can be used on 1x like an aimpoint or Eotech is the single most important feature. This alone excludes 90% of the products on the market. You could run a RMR or T1 in an offset but you will end up spending as much as getting a quality optic in the first place.

If you can afford the S&B (and make sure its the top model, they have 2), do it. If not, you really can't beat the razor G3 for overall package, and its about half the price of the S&B. If you can only spend about $1K I would go with the Eotech or make the compromise and run the Gen 2 razor which is SFP but everything else except for weight and reticle are excellent. Trijicon has yet to make a daylight bright LPV so none of them are worth buying. The NX8 is small and light but has a small eyebox and terrible reticle and so so glass. MK8 is dated and is 1.1x but its bright and has a very good reticle. ATACR should be $1700 and NX8 should be $1K. G3 Razor at 1.7-2K stomps the shit out of both. The Shortdot is 20 years old and no where near the value of the newer stuff considering features, but its the OG LPV and deserves respect. It has all the must have features although its only 4x and reticle leaves something to desire. Can run custom turrets for your loads.

I haven't run the March or some of the more exotics but they may be worth a look.

Nothing else worth buying IMO. Maybe the new Eotech depending on how it shakes out. FFP, Daylight Bright Illumination/Dot, and a good Tree Reticle. I have owned just about everything else out there and sold them all for one reason or another. Buris, Bushnel, Leopold, Trijicon, Kahles, Swaro, Steiner, cheaper vortexs, NX4, ect ect ect. The list above is about the closest advice to reality you will get.

Wondering where are you finding the G3 Razor for $1700-2k? I'm seeing north of $2400 for the G3 and $1300 for GII. If I'm not liking the Nightforce, the Razor will be the next one to try. Probably the GII as the G3 is more than I want to spend.

 

[SeanE]

Nightforce came in today as did a Vortex Razor Gen II. I was not expecting the results. I had the Nightforce in my possession for less than 3 hours before I boxed it up and sent it back. Didn't need to mount it or range time. The complaints of a tight eye box are certainly valid. The Gen 2 Razor was far better. Glass on both was difficult to discern which was "better." Both appeared to be built like a tank. I liked the Razor reticle a lot better as well. So far the negative of the Razor is the color Not a fan. Weight is a bit much as well but this isn't anything I carry for work (recently retired LE). 6X opposed to 8X isn't an issue for my expected usage. The dot is nice and bright and easy to pick up quickly.

I got lucky! Going to be 35F tomorrow afternoon. A lot better than the 16F for a high that is forecasted for Saturday. Looking forward to running a few drills and a few rounds off the bench.

 

[cjs88]

Vortex does mil/Le discount, maybe that's the pricing they're seeing. Takes Gen III down to 21xx.

 

[JDB55]

The Gen 2 razor was a great choice, congratulations on the new optic.

 

[gbaby125]

Wondering where are you finding the G3 Razor for $1700-2k? I'm seeing north of $2400 for the G3 and $1300 for GII. If I'm not liking the Nightforce, the Razor will be the next one to try. Probably the GII as the G3 is more than I want to spend.

I bought 3 of them from Sport Optics, and Kenzie's for $1750 with a coupon code. The MSRP on them is $3,599.99.

I see a bunch of venders that are at $2400 too. Looks like they have gone up in price depending on where they are being sold from. They were everywhere for $1999 the first year or so after they came out.

I also could have sworn that MSRP at Vortex was $2900 or $3000 when they first came out. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly?

 

[TheHorta]

Wondering where are you finding the G3 Razor for $1700-2k? I'm seeing north of $2400 for the G3 and $1300 for GII. If I'm not liking the Nightforce, the Razor will be the next one to try. Probably the GII as the G3 is more than I want to spend.

Right here, dude:

Vortex LPVO Razors in stock at Charlie's 1-6x and 1-10x

now in stock. =&[]=&search_query=&min_price=1399&max_price=1700']Vortex HD-E Gen II 1-6x Razor in mil and MOA $1,399 =&[]=&search_query=&min_price=1999&max_price=2000']Vortex HD-E Gen III 1-10x in mil and MOA $1,999 if you are looking for a Christmas gift, DM me and we can hook you up with a...

www.snipershide.com

Hide Vendor, $1999 shipped.

 

[freedom71]

Vortex raised prices on January 6. The street price on the Gen 3 Razor 1-10 went up from 1999 to 2499. Thankfully, I bought the Razor just three days before the price increase.

 

[Whistlepigs]

For your intended use I vote Accupoint 1x6. Don not know why this scope is so over looked.....as good or better glass than what has been mentioned above.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

For your intended use I vote Accupoint 1x6. Don not know why this scope is so over looked.....as good or better glass than what has been mentioned above.

Because it sucks.

Its fragile, not daylight bright and the reticles are dogshit.

 

[gbaby125]

Because it sucks.

Its fragile, not daylight bright and the reticles are dogshit.

I owned a couple and the crosshair dot wasn't even close to being "daylight bright" not even close!

The only model that may be daylight bright would be the red or green triangle model, but when shooting from a dark to light environment it may get dim. Then there is the non-existent holdover with that reticle.

I did like how lightweight they were.

The glass and eyebox were pretty close with the razors but there is no way they are better, no way!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yea same reason the Acog became obsolete, well one of the reasons. Certain environments render you aiming device almost useless.

 

[Whistlepigs]

Never had any issues with mine... The triangle is what I use, do not know for a 200 yard gun why you would need anything else. I can not speak on the other reticles. As far as being fragile....no clue where that is coming from, beat the piss out of mine and it is still going just fine.

And yes I do have more expensive scopes, even the beloved razor.

 

[SeanE]

I've had an ACOG TA01 for over a decade and it's one of my favorites. At 4x takes a bit to adjust to it but once you get it....love it!

I made it out with the Razor G2 today. I have to humble my ass and thank you all. I overlooked Vortex before recently. I mounted it in a Nightforce 0 MOA one piece untralight. It was cold, 32F with 12-15mph wind. Started at 25 yards to see where we were at. Easy peasy, nailed steel plates with no adjustments. Moved to 50, same result. Moved to 100yards and again, ringing steel with not a single windage or height adjustment. I've been close before but never had that happen. I did not bench it. I'm sure when I do adjustments will be made.

I was really impressed. Glass is good, glass was bright, eye box was solid, dot was bright, and most important the scope just worked rather instinctively. When I tried the NX8 it was work that took my focus off the target and on the scope. Vortex felt very natural. Absolutely worth the $1300 price tag. And the bronze color started to grow on me as well. I thought the weight would bother me but I did not notice it.

 

[troupe]

Just got a email today from Tract on their new 1x8, it is in stock and I have experience with their larger scopes. The Schott glass is great and the price is very good. Daylight visible and true 1x. Something to consider.