FX Panthera 700mm vs. AirForce Texan LSS

[MtnGhost]

Here's a size comparison of the two. I had always thought the Texan LSS was a broomstick length rifle, and I had similar reservations about the 700mm Panthera, but neither are bad at all!!

 

[Dave__th3__ss]

those are some pretty sweet air rifles.... not being able to run suppressed ive started to consider getting an air rifle

 

[woogie_man]

The 700 panthera is honestly no longer than your typical hunting rifle. They shoot great, but are air hogs

 

[MtnGhost]

The 700 panthera is honestly no longer than your typical hunting rifle. They shoot great, but are air hogs

Yeah, there's not enough valve spring resistance along some other inefficiencies with the design. With slugs, I've always found the utmost efficiency is seen with running higher air pressure.

My Taipan builds in .22 were getting conservatively 13 full power shots per fill shooting 40gn Griffin RBT slugs at 1130FPS with a shorter 600mm (FX) barrel, 80cc plenum and a 280cc air cylinder. That was around 178bar. I'd be nervous trying to lean too hard on the Panthera valves though lol

 

[Trent A]

I have been looking at these two guns as well. Just getting into PCP stuff and loving it so far. Have a AirForce Condor in .22 and a Condor SS in .25 that I just picked up. Really liking the extra oomf the .25 offers and planning on getting a barrel to make the Condor a .25 as well.

Had a question for those more knowledgeable than myself. What PCP guns would make your short list of what you would consider the most accurate/furthest shooting PCP gun? Would it be down to these two, or what else would you include on the list? Thanks in advance!

 

[MtnGhost]

I have been looking at these two guns as well. Just getting into PCP stuff and loving it so far. Have a AirForce Condor in .22 and a Condor SS in .25 that I just picked up. Really liking the extra oomf the .25 offers and planning on getting a barrel to make the Condor a .25 as well.

Had a question for those more knowledgeable than myself. What PCP guns would make your short list of what you would consider the most accurate/furthest shooting PCP gun? Would it be down to these two, or what else would you include on the list? Thanks in advance!

Definitely wouldn't add the Panthera to that list. The valve is terrible and it has some other design flaws that I won't unpack. You also have to re-zero most FX rifles with the factory liner system, so that's a deal breaker for people who expect to pick up a rifle that's been sitting in the case for a while and be certain the POI isn't an inch of two off at 50.

Not saying it isn't possible to setup an FX rifle to shoot right, but it requires a fair bit of customization to get them shooting heavier lead right at high power. My primary .30 is an FX Maverick, but it barely resembles the original inside and out. I run a 600mm TJ barrel with a 26" twist shooting the original / "old style" 62gn Varmint Knockers with it tuned anywhere from 900FPS to 1060FPS. It blew a limb off a yote in my backyard shooting in the low 900's at night (88-90y out).

Anyway, I usually tell people with similar questions to determine the rifle and barrel to use by figuring out which slug to use first and foremost. I build rifles around the projectile vs. trying to force an inadequate a rifle to shoot them. That comes down to how far out you expect MOA precision, steel / plinking or hunting, and if you're hunting the type / size of the game. Figure out how far out you expect to be able to shoot realistically, and these other parameters and you can narrow down to the right ammo to build around. Proper barrel machining and high quality barrels make ALL the difference. Like firearms, there's a thin margin of error between projectile vs. barrel specs (twist, bore/groove, chamber throat, etc).

It gets pretty windy in WA state (in WV now, but I lived there 16 years) so IME higher BC ammo is ideal. What's also important though is predictability and repeatability. I posted a YT video a few years ago shooting one of my custom Taipan builds at LT Murray using low BC NSA slugs (24.8gn .217). Wind was ferocious, but my ES/SD was under 1FPS and I machined the barrel correctly for the ammo I was using, so even in that cross wind it got boring shooting a 6" steel target over 200 meters. Point being - even low BC ammo can shoot extremely well at longer range from the right bore in a consistent rifle. Never had any of the POI drift / re-zeroing issues in those builds like you'll find with stock FX rifles.

Also, swaged ammo is obviously much more consistent than cast, but I've seen guys shooting fist size groups at 390y with ~70gn .25 cast slugs. I run some ammo in my custom .45 Texan that has to use G7 drag profiles for ballistic solving. Posted some scope cam videos shooting single hole groups with it, and I've used it to harvest whitetail for 2 seasons now. For smaller bore ammo, I try to use ammo with at least a 0.12 RA4 BC for hunting and shooting at longer ranges (NRL22 for example).

 

[steve123]

You can add the AGT Vulcan 3 to your list. Mine was tuned by Derrick at Tenacious Airguns, is 25 cal, holds zero well, and sends 60gr Altaros slugs at 862 fps which is 99 fpe. The G1 BC of this slug is .245 so they don't blow in the wind much compared to most other slugs. This combo in my gun is a consistent 1.1 MOA at 100Y with the net result of helping win quite a few Ultimate Field Target matches.

 

[solidwater]

Thought at first the 700mm FX Panthera with moderator might present some challenges due to length. Although it looks quite long it's still fairly manageable.

 

[68hoyt]

So the fall of 2023 I was recommended by a air gun shop , for what they thought I wanted to do which is shoot play and end up reaching out there targets small medium size game , they said for a beginner the fx dynamic 700 in 22 slugs was perfect , I was thinking 25 but they said no 22 slugs ,,,,,,, I still haven’t done anything

 

[Longshot231]

You also have to re-zero most FX rifles with the factory liner system, so that's a deal breaker for people who expect to pick up a rifle that's been sitting in the case for a while and be certain the POI isn't an inch of two off at 50.

I was wondering about that. I had a cheap Gauntlet for a while that would not hold zero.

I got better accuracy and more consistency from my springers than that air rifle.

Yes, I know that I was probably expecting too much from a cheap air rifle but I soon realized that the barrel was pencil thin and was inside a cheap shroud.

I was looking at the new FX M4 Sniper but also worry about the barrel/liner configuration in it.

Spending a few hundred dollars on a cheap Gauntlet then giving it away doesn't hurt as much as spending $2200 on an air rifle that won't hold zero.

Thoughts? Should I take a chance on the M4?

 

[MtnGhost]

I was wondering about that. I had a cheap Gauntlet for a while that would not hold zero.

I got better accuracy and more consistency from my springers than that air rifle.

Yes, I know that I was probably expecting too much from a cheap air rifle but I soon realized that the barrel was pencil thin and was inside a cheap shroud.

I was looking at the new FX M4 Sniper but also worry about the barrel/liner configuration in it.

Spending a few hundred dollars on a cheap Gauntlet then giving it away doesn't hurt as much as spending $2200 on an air rifle that won't hold zero.

Thoughts? Should I take a chance on the M4?

The big problem with the Impact and other FX rifles having POI shift issues isn't just the liner system, but the other high pressure components. You'll often find that PCP components in rifles made with thin walled tubing and / or flimsy parts can move slightly over time, and those parts can affect POI. The more o-rings that rifles have, the more they seem susceptible to this problem. Last I counted, the Impacts have over 50 o-rings.

 

[steve123]

You can add the AGT Vulcan 3 to your list. Mine was tuned by Derrick at Tenacious Airguns, is 25 cal, holds zero well, and sends 60gr Altaros slugs at 862 fps which is 99 fpe. The G1 BC of this slug is .245 so they don't blow in the wind much compared to most other slugs. This combo in my gun is a consistent 1.1 MOA at 100Y with the net result of helping win quite a few Ultimate Field Target matches.

Update..

I hadn't shot this gun in about a couple months but yesterday I checked zero at 25Y and it was perfect, then a while later shot a 2.75" five shot group on a rock face at 240 yards with this V3, and there was some wind.

Also got top score at the last two UFT matches earlier this spring.

This rifle, slug, and tripod, is such a fantastic combo that I'm impressed every time I shoot it!

 

[woogie_man]

I just got my Corbin Swaging set up in 218. Have been working on making some 30 grain slugs and have been having a blast. And I keep having the terrible thoughts of selling or trading off my American Air Arms Paradigm rifle.

 

[steve123]

I just got my Corbin Swaging set up in 218. Have been working on making some 30 grain slugs and have been having a blast. And I keep having the terrible thoughts of selling or trading off my American Air Arms Paradigm rifle.

Do what you feel is best for your shooting fun. There were a number of guns throughout the years that I felt locked into or didn't hardly use.
One was a 375Cheytac. A fine custom rifle but at the time ran out of people to shoot it with at ELR distances and it had sat in the safe for years. Darn hard to see $3500(18 years ago) sitting in the safe unused when I needed the money for other interests so I sold it.

I was sponsored with a AAA EVOL in 30 and it wasn't exceptionally precise, also no way I was going to win with it, so I returned it to the owner. Would I rather have my V3 and Uragan King? Yes. I'm not sponsored or associated with AGT at all either.

And quite a few other airguns that I let go of for various reasons. I don't regret it.

 

[MtnGhost]

I just got my Corbin Swaging set up in 218. Have been working on making some 30 grain slugs and have been having a blast. And I keep having the terrible thoughts of selling or trading off my American Air Arms Paradigm rifle.

30 grains is a very good weight for .217-.218. Which nose die(s) are you using?

I was sponsored with a AAA EVOL in 30 and it wasn't exceptionally precise, also no way I was going to win with it, so I returned it to the owner. Would I rather have my V3 and Uragan King? Yes. I'm not sponsored or associated with AGT at all either.

Yeah the EVOL barrels are real hit or miss (like all TJs though). Dale Riggert's old style 62gn Varmint Knockers in the 8.5-9BHN alloy shoot exceptionally well from most of the 26" twist TJs that I've machined. They can also be phenomenal with 50gn JSBs, but I've never really been able to get them shooting small slugs as well (under ~54gn). I have a 1.5 and a 2 degree live piloted throat reamer made for .297/.294 and tried about every depth possible to get the lighter .30 NSAs shooting right, but the twist rate isn't ideal for lighter / stubbier slugs. The older 42 twist TJs were the polar opposite.

Man, the 15.7 twist .30 CZs actually shoot the FX Hybrid / Ratsnipers / RMR slugs extremely well at 1000-1040FPS. I had a 700mm Uragan 2 and tuned another 700mm U2 for someone, and both were stupid accurate with Hybrids at those speeds. They also shoot the new style 62gn Varmint Knockers lights out (shot 1/2 MOA at 100 a few times), but the barrels are paper thin and have to be harmonically tuned with heavier slugs (not as bad as FX).

I have to say though, this Texan LSS .457 has amazed me with its accuracy!!! It's not picky with run of the mill swaged slugs (NSa 240/290/350) and it shoots well enough with 333-500gn cast ammo to hunt, but it's literally the tightest grouping PCP that I've ever owned when shooting 290-295gn RBT and those 365gn steel tipped RBT slugs (all made from Corbin tools). I've shot groups tethered that were maybe 1/20th of an MOA at 55y, and I've never run anything more than an NX8 1-8 LVPO on it. Put a Trij red dot with a 3x magnifier on it now, since the FOV is wider than a 1-8 and I find that it's just right for taking deer inside 100y.

Shot this 6-shot group at 58y couple of days ago from my tripod - untethered from my air tank shooting with 240gn NSA HP-DB's with the Trij red dot and 3x magnifier. The squares are 1x1", first shot was 972FPS and the 6th was 827FPS. Still had ~2300PSI in the bottle, which would have been more than enough for a 7th shot, but I ran out of ammo and didn't feel like digging in the basement for the rest of my 240's.e

Wanted to see what the shot curve and POI looked like with those light slugs, so I aimed at the top left red diamond and wasn't holding at all for elevation. Never would have thought that 6 shots were possible with this rifle, let alone the spread being an inch give or take from the first to last shots!

 

[steve123]

Maybe in the next year I'll find a Bigbore I'm interested in. I haven't had one since my 909 Career of 20 years ago which was a 2.5" gun at 50Y.

I'd really prefer a higher BC slug of .4 -.5 in 30 to 375 caliber at 1000-ish fps and a gun very robustly built. That Bintac MCAR is interesting to me. Maybe put a Krieger or Bartlein on it??

Yesterday I hit a kitty cat sized and shaped steel 8 times in a row at 300Y with the V3/60gr Altaros slugs. Man it got boring even with a 1.5 mil holdoff so I put the gun in the truck and got out the Steyr ProX to play with at normal distances instead. Only went out to 125Y using 18gr pellets with it but got reacquainted with how fun a gun it is to shoot.

My 1st gen Thomas HPX starting shooting weird last year and I hadn't been able to figure out why so I shelved it. Well a few months ago I got it out again and went to clean the barrel only to discover what the problem was. The thick receiver(I'm not sure what it's called) that holds/clamps to the barrel had loosened from the lower part of the action that it's attached to. Took the picatinny rail off and the three screws underneath needed to be retightened.

Mike N is on his 3rd or 4th iteration and now uses a monoblock system. If these weren't so expensive I'd order one!

Anywho I tested mine with the custom 22 cal 42gr slugs I swage and man it shoots fantastic again! Only a few five shot groups out of 10 or so at 55Y were not all touching and those others were still .5".
At 222Y a few weeks ago my friend and I noticed my HPX, which in the past I had named SURELY, was outperforming the V3 on steel. The vertical was noticeably less anyway but the 42gr slugs do blow in the wind a bit more.

Sorry to be OT in your thread but I felt like sharing.

 

[MtnGhost]

Maybe in the next year I'll find a Bigbore I'm interested in. I haven't had one since my 909 Career of 20 years ago which was a 2.5" gun at 50Y.

I'd really prefer a higher BC slug of .4 -.5 in 30 to 375 caliber at 1000-ish fps and a gun very robustly built. That Bintac MCAR is interesting to me. Maybe put a Krieger or Bartlein on it??

@Appalachian Lead Head has an MCAR that he's testing out right now for ELR shooting. It's a heavy rifle, but I think it's showing promise (in .45 at least).

He also has some rifles in .375. I forget which platforms that he has them barreled in, but I'm pretty sure he told me that he shot one of them at or above 1000. I think that's an ideal caliber for big bore PCPs for shooting ELR without having to dump 400cc's of 4500PSI air to make speed lol

Yesterday I hit a kitty cat sized and shaped steel 8 times in a row at 300Y with the V3/60gr Altaros slugs. Man it got boring even with a 1.5 mil holdoff so I put the gun in the truck and got out the Steyr ProX to play with at normal distances instead. Only went out to 125Y using 18gr pellets with it but got reacquainted with how fun a gun it is to shoot.

Minute of kitty at 300y is not bad! My old go-to target shooting spot in WA state had about 4000y in the fall/winter time, and I just wish I had 1/8th that range here in WV to find that "boring" range with these steel tipped 365gn and the 290gn in .457. The G7 for those 365's is .219. The furthest I've shot both of them was 318y, and the wind drift was about identical (next to nothing at ~8-10mph). I think those steel tips can be swaged into small bore down to .220 or maybe a hair over. They're outstanding for maximizing BC in any caliber though!

 

[steve123]

Wow that G7 of .219 converted to G1 is about .509! I think in G1 so I have to convert to understand the difference. Twice the BC of the Altaros 60gr.

Those bullets, providing they shoot well in a gun, would be cool to have. Do you have the link?

Yeah I thought years ago you must have lived in the northwest somewhere but okay you moved off to WV.

I used to play around with a 300BO bolt gun using 220's and such at around 1050 fps but for whatever reason I couldn't nail down great precision past 300Y or so. Never figured it out either so I sold it all. Supposedly it had a 7 twist so should have worked fine. Also didn't get the SD down enough.
My friends shoot black powder Sharps rifles with 535gr 45cal cast bullets and they get 6" groups at 500 meters with their rifles in ideal conditions.

Kinda looking for similar with air.

 

[steve123]

Found this from you.

Steel Tip RBT .457 Ammo (G7 BC 0.219)

Ever see an airgun slug with a 0.428 G1 / 0.219 G7 BC?.. Well now you have! And they shoot lights out from my stock AirForce Texan LSS .457 with the 30" twist bore and TX2 valve 😎 I've had the LSS for about a year now. I took a hefty 8pt whitetail deer with it last hunting season shooting...

www.snipershide.com

 

[MtnGhost]

Found this from you.

Steel Tip RBT .457 Ammo (G7 BC 0.219)

Ever see an airgun slug with a 0.428 G1 / 0.219 G7 BC?.. Well now you have! And they shoot lights out from my stock AirForce Texan LSS .457 with the 30" twist bore and TX2 valve 😎 I've had the LSS for about a year now. I took a hefty 8pt whitetail deer with it last hunting season shooting...

www.snipershide.com

Yep that's them

Wow that G7 of .219 converted to G1 is about .509! I think in G1 so I have to convert to understand the difference. Twice the BC of the Altaros 60gr.

Those bullets, providing they shoot well in a gun, would be cool to have. Do you have the link?

Chadfrom LethalAir was selling them here, but they're out of production right now and not sure if those will be made again specifically:

WICKED AIR-MUNITION

Wicked AIR is a new age airgun Ammo company with lead and non lead options

lethalair.net

Corbin sells those ballistic tips though. I can imagine that it's possible to get close to a .6 G1, if not over that in a smaller bore. I have a photo somewhere comparing those tips with a 77gn SMK and the Corbin tips look more streamlined than the Sierras lol

Yeah I thought years ago you must have lived in the northwest somewhere but okay you moved off to WV.

Yeah I couldn't take any more of Western WA. I miss being close to the Cascades, but that was about the only good thing WA had going on for it when I left there. It's a damn shame!

I used to play around with a 300BO bolt gun using 220's and such at around 1050 fps but for whatever reason I couldn't nail down great precision past 300Y or so. Never figured it out either so I sold it all. Supposedly it had a 7 twist so should have worked fine. Also didn't get the SD down enough.

How long was the barrel? I have a buddy who shoots a LOT of of the 220's and 190's. He's one of those guys who won't stop talking about 300BO/AAC once he gets started lol

My friends shoot black powder Sharps rifles with 535gr 45cal cast bullets and they get 6" groups at 500 meters with their rifles in ideal conditions.

Incredible!!! I've heard they can be extremely accurate long range. I was considering getting into muzzleloaders to get some extra hunting opportunities, but I decided to get into compound archery instead.

 

[steve123]

The barrel was the 16" in the Ruger American. Not a great gun and average of groups were 1.25". Those 225gr Hornadys and 230gr Bergers were expensive even back then.

Said friends with Tangent sights would pretty easily hit the 500M ram at my friends place as long as they got the wind right. I rarely hit the ram in spite of using a scope ??!! but at 300Y I could keep most shots on a 1' wide plate.

I lost interest in this project because of cost and time involved. But I have more of both now that I'm retired, also have a bunch of lead, as well as a good compressor, so maybe a bigbore AG at some point.

I just would like a very high BC lead bullet for the Bigbore project.