Suppressors Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

[Powerlock25]

18" WOA barrel rifle length gas. Gemtech Trek-T, AR-15 carrier, standard rifle buffer with wolff spring in fixed buttstock, using a PRI gas buster

fumes/smoke is horrific!!! blowback and small bits of unburnt powder hitting me in the face as well.

so i figure I will replace the standard gas block with an adjustable block and maybe replace the AR15 carrier with a M16 carrier.
Any thoughts? which block? I am leaning towards a PRI adjustable? would a pinned switchblock be preferable, I really dont want to have to pull the rifle apart and send it in.....

thanks in advance

 

[Cologgi]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Every semi I've shot supressed sends gas back into your face. There may be a few things you can do to minimize it but its just part of shooting cans on semis. Make sure to wear eye protection.

 

[chongoMT]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

If you are a right handed shooter the PRI Gas Buster helps with venting some of the gas away from your face.

http://www.skdtac.com/PRI-M84-Gas-Buster-Charging-Handle-p/pri.102.htm

 

[Apex Motorsports]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

PRI charging handle!, an enhanced bolt carrier will also help a bit but more money than it's probably worth.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Try the RTV trick. Google it for directions... It's cheap and if it doesn't perform up to your expectations your not out anything.

 

[TNT]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Is it through the charging handle despite the PRI? Even unsuppressed I like to use some RTV silicone to make a nice seal there. Just blob some of it on, then seat the charging handle gently and mold the displaced material to a low profile to cover the gaps. Works well and is easily replaceable.

If it's from the chamber, well...I don't know how, but maybe a heavier buffer to add more inertia and slow down how fast it opens, hopefully letting the blowback pressure dissipate in the barrel a bit more? No clue on this one, I'm just guessing.

 

[tacgnut]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

I tried the Superior Shooting systems carrier weight and also used the flat wire spring, this helped out but did not eliminate blowback.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

If you want to really solve the problem, get a short stroke adjustable gas piston system.

--Wintermute

 

[mtrmn]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Wouldn't a piston gun be much louder and work against the purpose of the suppressor? IDK, never tried one. Just sayin'.

I haven't tried this either, but I would think the adj gas block would be THE fix for this type of problem. I have tried heavier buffers etc in mine and they had some effect, but my guns are overgassed even without the suppressor and the adj gas block is going to be my next step.....

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Fun, isn't it?

You'll never fully eliminate it. I like the JP blocks myself. I put a hand towel over the rear of the charge handle otherwise, I cant see because of all the nasty fumes in my eyes.

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

I have a noveske switchblock on my 18" AR and it really does help eliminate gas blowback. I do still get some gas but it mainly comes from the upper receiver trapdoor. Does your current gas block sit inside the handguard or does it stick out?

 

[pdice]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to really solve the problem, get a short stroke adjustable gas piston system.

--Wintermute</div></div>

Does it need to be adjustable?

 

[robbf213]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Use the RTV rubber method, it works. Google it

 

[BayouRobert]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

ESE Profile Turbofan Goggles. Run it as dry as you can.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Yes it needs to be adjustable. It's basically got a click nut on the front with one setting being no can and the other setting being a can. Without that the increase in back pressure from the can being on the gun can actually damage things.

As for noise, they're actually quite a bit quieter than the gas impingement system.

It really is the best way to eliminate the gas blow problem. Far better than any adjustable gas block on a standard gas impingement system (even the full combination of a regulated gas block, M16 carrier, and PRI gas buster).

--Wintermute

 

[pdice]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (even the full combination of a regulated gas block, M16 carrier, and PRI gas buster).
</div></div>

I'm running a regulated gas block and PRI gas buster, but not the m16 carrier. What does that affect? Does it keep the bolt closed longer?

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

The M16 bolt (as far as I've found anyways) just has more solid area on it towards the back end which keeps some of the gas from making it back through the charging handle, and it's heavier so it eats up a bit more of the gas pressure in just cycling the bolt.

Just to be clear though, I haven't spent real effort on figuring out if there's any actual noticeable benefit in the way of reducing gas blow by using the M16 carrier. I just know a few guys who do it and say it helps. I've shot a couple of their rifles with cans on them...there's still enough that it's annoying to me.

The piston rifles I've built with cans on them are quiet and don't throw anything back in your face...which is why I'd recommend that route.

--Wintermute

 

[bama110]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

My noveske switch block works great with the pri gas buster

 

[killerwaffles]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bama110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My noveske switch block works great with the pri gas buster </div></div>


Do you use RTV on the gas buster?

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

If you are running a suppressed AR and you do not have the Noveske Switch-block, you are missing the boat.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The piston rifles I've built with cans on them are quiet and don't throw anything back in your face...which is why I'd recommend that route.</div></div>
This guy has some good points on this...

 

[springer01]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Even my P308 (short stroke piston) still gets gas in my face. Not super bad but enough after 15 or 20 rounds rapid firing my eyes get a little watery with eye pro on. Just part of it.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

With a short stroke gas piston system, you won't get any impingement blowback through the charging handle. You may be getting chamber gas blowback through the charging handle though...but it shouldn't be even close to what you'd get without a can and with a gas impingement system. All of the recoil gas on a short stroke piston system is released at the gas block where the piston is kicking into the op-rod.

I haven't built a .308 AR with the short stroke piston and a can...they may have far more chamber gas release when the bolt reciprocates than a 5.56 would.

--Wintermute

 

[KYS]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DDS260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">18" WOA barrel rifle length gas. Gemtech Trek-T, AR-15 carrier, standard rifle buffer with wolff spring in fixed buttstock, using a PRI gas buster

<span style="color: #FF0000">fumes/smoke is horrific!!! blowback and small bits of unburnt powder hitting me in the face as well.</span>

so i figure I will replace the standard gas block with an adjustable block and maybe replace the AR15 carrier with a M16 carrier.
Any thoughts? which block? I am leaning towards a PRI adjustable? would a pinned switchblock be preferable, I really dont want to have to pull the rifle apart and send it in.....

thanks in advance </div></div>

Welcome to suppressed rifle shooting!

The gasbuster charging handle will help a little bit. The gas block is the biggest fix. I would go with the noveske since its quick change. You have a lever you turn instead of an allen head screw to adjust. I run all my suppressed AR's like that.

 

[Machine Gun Jenny]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

The W.A.R. Adjustable Receiver will fix that issue and more.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php...e-receiver.html

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

honestly, that's kinda silly. It's basically taking the regulating of the gas impingement away from the gas block area, requiring a proprietary gas tube, and moving it up onto the front of the upper receiver.

That really sounds like the answer to the question no one ever asked.

--Wintermute

 

[KYS]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Id spend the money on a Novekse Switchblock, PRI Gasbuster charging handle and call it a day. Anything you get after those two is just a bonus.

 

[springer01]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With a short stroke gas piston system, you won't get any impingement blowback through the charging handle. You may be getting chamber gas blowback through the charging handle though...but it shouldn't be even close to what you'd get without a can and with a gas impingement system. All of the recoil gas on a short stroke piston system is released at the gas block where the piston is kicking into the op-rod.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I haven't built a .308 AR with the short stroke piston and a can...they may have far more chamber gas release when the bolt reciprocates than a 5.56 would.</span>

--Wintermute</div></div>

Im sure that's the case. Although I have never shot a suppressed short stroke 5.56, so can't say for sure, but I would assume there is more chamber gas in the .308.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

I'm running a Paladin Machine three position gas block with the PRI gas buster. Paladin cut each one to your particular barrel gas hole size.

When shooting suppressed, I switch to either the high pressure or closed setting. High pressure allows me to shoot in semi auto mode with less blow back. Close mode I pretty much shoot my AR like a bolt gun. No gas blow back with this setting and my rifle runs real quiet this way.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Can you share any pics or info on the Paladin Machine gas block? I have thought about looking into one, and they are only an hour or so from me.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

i havent experienced any notable "suppressor gas bukkake" and im runnin a stock charging handle and pri gas block on me MK12

 

[colt933]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

I find that the Adams Arms piston system is considerably louder when suppressed than a DI system, with the switch on either setting. And if you turn the gas off, it's unbearably loud.

DI is the quietest in my experience, at least to the shooter's ears. Wear glasses. Hold your breath.

 

[Boogyman]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

A+ with what MachinegunJenny said the W.A.R. reciever is the way to go, dont bother with the switchblock......outdated now!

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php...e-receiver.html

 

[Boogyman]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly, that's kinda silly. It's basically taking the regulating of the gas impingement away from the gas block area, requiring a proprietary gas tube, and moving it up onto the front of the upper receiver.

That really sounds like the answer to the question no one ever asked.

--Wintermute</div></div>

Dont think it is silly at all! Ever tried to change the setting of a switchblock after about three mags straight? Not to mention you can only use it with certain forearms......You can use the W.A.R. with what ever you want.After all is said and done its close to the same price. Plus the advantage of 2 db of more suppresson and it runs a whole lot cleaner. Now the switchblock is a good unit but people need to take a serious look at it before passing judgement.
Ive been at this game along time, Im sold.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

hehe, probably best not to compare my ability to switch the setting on a gas block after it's good and hot. I weld...all it does is make my calluses smoke a little bit..I don't feel a thing from it. Figure gloves would work just as well for someone without my fingertips though

.

Personally, I wouldn't spend my money on that upper receiver. As to why...well, I just think if you're going with a gas impingement, then a gas block is simpler. Also, I wouldn't take a Seekins, Vltor, POF, or other high quality upper off and replace it with a PSA upper.

Again, I really do think that a short stroke piston is the way to go (I've built about 30 suppressed ARs and about 20 of those have used piston systems). I use POF piston systems most of the time. I've found they are definitely quieter than the gas impingment systems with a good can.

I just don't see the WAR as being anything truly revolutionary... Just seems like an expensive alternative to a switchblock or paladin machine switchable gasblock. At $265 I think it'd make more sense to just buy the piston kit and be done with it and keep your current upper in place.

If I get my hands on one of the WAR uppers though, I'll build out a couple of different configurations on it and give it a go. I don't have a problem trying out new options...this one just isn't showing me much in the way of obvious benefits over what's already out there.

--Wintermute

 

[Tactical22]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Here is a review of the WAR that a friend did, if anyone wants to see it: http://www.gunn-fighter.com/innovative-arms-WAR-receiver.html

 

[jetmd]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

DDS260,

Many of the solutions listed are viable and will work.
But if you want to run the charging handle you already have and want a cost effective solution that works well.....do the RTV mod and then spend $40.00 on the AR gas vent, hands down the best bang for the buck.
You can be out shooting for less than $60.00 for the vent and the price of a tube of RTV.
My .02 worth

http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ar-15-m1...-ar-rifles.html

Check it out, it works.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you share any pics or info on the Paladin Machine gas block? I have thought about looking into one, and they are only an hour or so from me.</div></div>

Here is their ad I responded to:
http://secure.adpay.com/clicknbuy.aspx?itemid=2541516&p=2079&st=1

 

[KYS]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boogyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly, that's kinda silly. It's basically taking the regulating of the gas impingement away from the gas block area, requiring a proprietary gas tube, and moving it up onto the front of the upper receiver.

That really sounds like the answer to the question no one ever asked.

--Wintermute</div></div>

Dont think it is silly at all! Ever tried to change the setting of a switchblock after about three mags straight? Not to mention you can only use it with certain forearms......You can use the W.A.R. with what ever you want.After all is said and done its close to the same price. Plus the advantage of 2 db of more suppresson and it runs a whole lot cleaner. Now the switchblock is a good unit but people need to take a serious look at it before passing judgement.
Ive been at this game along time, Im sold. </div></div>

The Noveske Switch Block comes with a supplied wrench in case you have to change gas settings after a lot of rounds. I think the upper with gas switch is a horrible idea. What happens when that switch starts leaking?

 

[chainring]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

You'll get blowback through the chamber on pistons, but not the DI blast.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

Cool! Thanks, CanPopper.

 

[raider1v1]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

same thing happened to me, heres the fix.

1. forget the pri gas buster. its expensive, and the methods below work better. i shot a rifle with a gas buster and still had a bit of overgassing.

2. get some RTV. i bought the gray stuff. follow directions, its easy and took out 100% of overgassing during unsupressed fire, and most of it during suppressed fire.

3. if you need to get rid of any remaining gas, get one of these vents. they work VERY well and take about 5 minutes to install. - http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ar-15-m1...-ar-rifles.html

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

What is RTV?

 

[vinsonr]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

RTV Silicone.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jetmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DDS260,

Many of the solutions listed are viable and will work.
But if you want to run the charging handle you already have and want a cost effective solution that works well.....do the RTV mod and then spend $40.00 on the AR gas vent, hands down the best bang for the buck.
You can be out shooting for less than $60.00 for the vent and the price of a tube of RTV.
My .02 worth

http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ar-15-m1...-ar-rifles.html

Check it out, it works.</div></div>

Great if you want to neuter your forward assist. No thanks.

 

[blksno]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

I'm all for the suggestions made.
Gas Buster Charge Handle (or better yet, a home made one as seen here)
Adjustable Gas Block (I prefer one you can tune like the PRI, not just 2-3 position)
And add some RTV for good measure.

Those three things should 100% cure any excess gas issues and it'll be less than $100 (if you're handy)
If you want to blow the extra on a NEW Gas Buster Charge handle...well thats just a decision you gotta weigh.

The gas port forward assist thing is a bad idea IMO.

 

[Machine Gun Jenny]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boogyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly, that's kinda silly. It's basically taking the regulating of the gas impingement away from the gas block area, requiring a proprietary gas tube, and moving it up onto the front of the upper receiver.

That really sounds like the answer to the question no one ever asked.

--Wintermute</div></div>





Dont think it is silly at all! Ever tried to change the setting of a switchblock after about three mags straight? Not to mention you can only use it with certain forearms......You can use the W.A.R. with what ever you want.After all is said and done its close to the same price. Plus the advantage of 2 db of more suppresson and it runs a whole lot cleaner. Now the switchblock is a good unit but people need to take a serious look at it before passing judgement.
Ive been at this game along time, Im sold. </div></div>

The Noveske Switch Block comes with a supplied wrench in case you have to change gas settings after a lot of rounds. I think the upper with gas switch is a horrible idea. What happens when that switch starts leaking? </div></div>



The design of the WAR upper are for those who are not wanting to keep track of a switch block wrench when rounds are coming their way, when they can simply thumb the WAR lever to the appropriate position without un shouldering their weapon and their eyes never leaving the threat. If there would ever be an issue with the WAR all parts are removable/replaceable without even needing to remove the barrel.

 

[blksno]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MG Jenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boogyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly, that's kinda silly. It's basically taking the regulating of the gas impingement away from the gas block area, requiring a proprietary gas tube, and moving it up onto the front of the upper receiver.

That really sounds like the answer to the question no one ever asked.

--Wintermute</div></div>





Dont think it is silly at all! Ever tried to change the setting of a switchblock after about three mags straight? Not to mention you can only use it with certain forearms......You can use the W.A.R. with what ever you want.After all is said and done its close to the same price. Plus the advantage of 2 db of more suppresson and it runs a whole lot cleaner. Now the switchblock is a good unit but people need to take a serious look at it before passing judgement.
Ive been at this game along time, Im sold. </div></div>

The Noveske Switch Block comes with a supplied wrench in case you have to change gas settings after a lot of rounds. I think the upper with gas switch is a horrible idea. What happens when that switch starts leaking? </div></div>



The design of the WAR upper are for those who are not wanting to keep track of a switch block wrench when rounds are coming their way, when they can simply thumb the WAR lever to the appropriate position without un shouldering their weapon and their eyes never leaving the threat. If there would ever be an issue with the WAR all parts are removable/replaceable without even needing to remove the barrel.
</div></div>

I follow what you mean here and it makes sense; BUT if you've got rounds coming your way...why would you want to stop and add or remove a suppressor, to warrant having to switch your block OR WAR.

The 1/2 second it takes to adjust the WAR, is negated by the need to add or remove your suppressor first.

Neither the WAR, nor the SwitchBlock is something you're going to NEED to mess with in a hurry and if you do, you're setting yourself up for a real bad day.

If you were heading off into battle, you're going to put your can on right away, and set your gas system (which ever one you choose) right then and there. Then the fire fight breaks out...why the hell would you stop shooting to take the can OFF and re-adjust your gas system? KEEP SHOOTING TILL THEY AIN'T SHOOTING BACK...Then adjust your gas system.

(but what do I know, coyotes and deer don't shoot back)

 

[K_4c]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help

http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/do-it-yourself-gas-buster-charging-handle

We used this trick with our service m4's... As I stated before... You can't beat it for the money and it works.

 

[Machine Gun Jenny]

Re: Gas in face with can installed!!!! ugghhh help


[/quote]
I follow what you mean here and it makes sense; BUT if you've got rounds coming your way...why would you want to stop and add or remove a suppressor, to warrant having to switch your block OR WAR.

The 1/2 second it takes to adjust the WAR, is negated by the need to add or remove your suppressor first.

Neither the WAR, nor the SwitchBlock is something you're going to NEED to mess with in a hurry and if you do, you're setting yourself up for a real bad day.

If you were heading off into battle, you're going to put your can on right away, and set your gas system (which ever one you choose) right then and there. Then the fire fight breaks out...why the hell would you stop shooting to take the can OFF and re-adjust your gas system? KEEP SHOOTING TILL THEY AIN'T SHOOTING BACK...Then adjust your gas system.

(but what do I know, coyotes and deer don't shoot back) [/quote]



You are correct. If you were heading off into battle, you're going to put your can on right away, and set your gas system right then and there. However, when the fight breaks out one reason to re-adjust your gas system is catastrophic suppressor failure. Suppressors can and do fail. In the event of that happening it is advantageous to have a quick fix to keep you in the fight.