Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

[Gpdsniper110]

Not that anything is a done deal but there have been some talks about adding a day or two (after the LEO/ Mil shoot) and having a civilian rifle shoot. Now first off, I have NO idea as to how many people would attend or usually attend. What I am trying to get is an idea IF (BIG IF) we could pull something off.
1. How many people would be interested
2. How long are civilian shoots usually (1,2,3 day?)
3. What do they usually cost to competitors
4. What is a good prize package at a civilian shoot.

All of my experience has been at LEO/ Mil shoots, so I am trying to put together as much information as possible. I would like to think that we put on a top notch competition, but that does not necessarily transfer to a civililan shoot in the same manner.

So Right now I am just getting some ideas in case the questions arise.

Thanks

 

[DT1]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gpdsniper110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that anything is a done deal but there have been some talks about adding a day or two (after the LEO/ Mil shoot) and having a civilian rifle shoot. Now first off, I have NO idea as to how many people would attend or usually attend. What I am trying to get is an idea IF (BIG IF) we could pull something off.
1. How many people would be interested <span style="color: #FF0000">Probably a lot. There are relatively few "sniper" type matches in the east. NC is centrally located and would probably draw a good size crowd</span>
2. How long are civilian shoots usually (1,2,3 day?) <span style="color: #FF0000">Formats vary but most are 1.5 day events (Saturday and half day Sunday). </span>
3. What do they usually cost to competitors <span style="color: #FF0000">Again, it varys. People will expect to pay anywhere between $100 and $150ish for matches with a prize table. </span>
4. What is a good prize package at a civilian shoot. <span style="color: #FF0000">Prize table usually visited in order of finish. Sometimes gunsmiths will donate a rifle which is claimed by the top finisher. Many shooting related vendors will support matches with products if they are recognized. As a match director, this is definitely the most time consuming aspect of putting on a match (that's what I've found anyway). </span>

All of my experience has been at LEO/ Mil shoots, so I am trying to put together as much information as possible. I would like to think that we put on a top notch competition, but that does not necessarily transfer to a civililan shoot in the same manner. <span style="color: #FF0000">A top notch competition is the important thing. I suspect you'll get plenty of interest in a good quality match with a few prizes. </span>

So Right now I am just getting some ideas in case the questions arise.

Thanks </div></div>

You can definitely look at AAR's on matches in this forum to see what people like and don't like. Thanks for considering a civilian shoot!

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Would definitely be very interested in attending. As stated above, there are very few competitions in the East. Would be very nice to see one here in the home state. Thanks for the consideration.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

you guys can see on the webpage the facilities we have. Not sure if obstacle course stuff is commonplace in civilian events or not. We have 4 ranges varying from 50 yard pistol range with moving and turning targets to a dedicated sniper long range. We also have 100 yard rifle ranges and capability to shoot out past 700 if needed.

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

We, as civilians, like to be tested the same as those in the military and LEO. We wish we were given the opportunity to compete against those that are serving. Please PM me and we can work on what will work and what is desired for a "civilian comp". I'd be more than happy to help out. Thanks again for the consideration.

 

[TL Sr]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I'm local, I know at least a dozen shooters close by. I don't think you'll have a problem filling up a shoot. I think you'll be surprised at the quality and quantity of the shooters and their equipment.

 

[SIGTWO]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Dates and times I'm there.Leave the same course for civi's as the leo's competed on. Keep us posted. Hope it works out.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Eric,

Let me tell you something.

If you run a civ match I ask of you to not change a single thing.

Just run two matches that are the same thing.

You will sale out ASAP on the civ side faster then the LEO/Mil side.

John

 

[BHE]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Eric,

We will help you on this as much as possible. I can bring 4-6+ shooters for your event. Maybe even do a night-vision stage with our equipment if possible.

Byron
BHE
York,SC
[email protected]

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I'm interested in an old farts course. The obstacle course being a driving course with traffic cones we race through with a golf cart then the team slides out and shoots a car hood at 50 yds.

All kidding aside. I'm here to help.

 

[flatlander]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I'm game for it

Todd

 

[dvdt]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I'm absolutely game. I know a ton of guys at the Charlotte Rifle & Pistol club that always talk about how we wish this was open to civilians in some fashion. Maybe train up days or a full competition afterwards. Either way, I know you'd fill this bad boy up in a heartbeat with locals. As another member said, NC being central to so many states, I'm confident it would bring in a lot of folks.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

This sounds like one of those "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it" things.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I think you may be surprised at the level the "civi" competitions are run at.

If you were to offer a Civilian comp, or allow us to attend, there would be a huge turnout.

Thank you for considering it.

 

[McCrazy]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Keep in touch and if I am still in the area I will try to come out and you guys run the event.

 

[herr.baer]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I bet that would be a great comp. and would sell out quickly.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

OK , so where we stand is a tenative OK from the Captain. IF (STRESS IF) we can work out the legal areas and liability areas we may be able to run a condensed version Monday and Tuesday before the event. We would run probablt 6 to 8 of our events (eliminating the O-course and probably any other strenuous events). Now let me preface this by saying...this has basically been something that started based on requests from the hide members to shoot. I have no idea about a prize table or what kind of backing we may get from sponsors. I know that we CAN NOT take away from the LEO/Mil sponsors (sorry guys but the equipment has to get in the hands of the guys in the field) but we may be able to work something out. We have not approached sponsors yet. So...from you guys..IF (again big IF) we do get the ok this will probably be on a trial run..we will need people to come to sell it..if we get the support and people come we may continue.

So that is where we stand so far...nothing definate but at least it is being entertained...

 

[DT1]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Thanks for the update! Hope it'll work out for a civilian shoot. As John said earlier, don't try to modify the regular match, run it the same if at all possible.

FWIW, don't worry too much about the prizes. They'd be nice, but if the entry fee is reasonable, I suspect interest & turnout will be keen.

Please keep us posted!

PS: Please also thank the Captain for the consideration. Opening up a traditional Mil/LEO event to civilians is a significant leap sometimes.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

well John has shot our stuff so he knows how we run it. im going to finish the proposal up on this end and work on getting all the releases and try to come up with a cof and range rotation. I think if we could get 40-50 shooters it would be ideal...probably no more than $100 for the shoot.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

IF we pull it off we are looking at Sept 5th-6th.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Eric,

I will come and help if you need it, anything you need just ask ok.

Let the CAPT know also.

John

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

maybe some of the shooters can hang around and watch the mil/LEO shoot.

 

[TL Sr]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

GPDSniper110, my son has professional contacts within the industry and wanted me to let you know he would help you with getting a prize table together for this. Let me know if you are interested.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

we are always interested. We have alot of contacts, but most of them are from the LEO/ Mil competition. If we were to get a civilian shoot together it would have to be seperate as far as sponsors/ vendors.
I will let you know for sure once we know we will be allowed to do it.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Couple tings come to mind:
1. Have you noticed that EVERY comp posted up now has sold out in less than 2 days? Some only minuites
2. Most Sponsers are aware that there are a lot more Civi dollars than Dept. in the market place.
3. Most guys who can afford this game work 5-6 days a week. Previous or following weekends would work much better for the Civi gang, they will definately be on the clock.
4. With the good rep your current comp has, an hour sellout would not be suprising,plan accordingly. Set the standard for application acceptance well prior to the entry date,post it and strictly adere to it.
5.You will be suprised at te quality of east coast shooters that play this game.Do NOT try to downplay the course for them.

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I agree with quite a few people that will shoot this. Thank you for giving us civi's a chance to shoot it.

Make it known that it will be a very physical for the shooters. That there will be obstacle courses, stuff thats way out of the ordinary. Not all of us shooters like to lay on a gravel, carpeted shooting pad.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Jon, I tried to go with a weekend but as far as our manpower I think our best chance of actually pulling this off would be the monday and tuesday before we start our event. I put together a 7 course 2 day shoot that I proposed..I left out the obstacle course and a few of the more time consuming events but i think we could easily pull 7 events in 2 days.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

OK once again guys...I need some info from you guys that shoot civilian matches.

First off..what would be considered a good prize package for a 2 day shoot costing $100 per shooter?

Second..is it uncommon to shoot multiple shooters at once? I know we shoot teams at our comp but we are putting time frames together and trying to see how many people we can run in 2 days.

Thanks for the help..I am still working on getting this up and running and the more info the better.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Read Range Firing line

Typical firing position at ASC

Firing position at Snipers ide cup.

Yea the more firing at one position at one time Shorter the station and more shooting time. A Lot of the positions at ASC have 75%+ of the shooters on line at the same time with several going 100%

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Having competed at Gastonia a few times as Active Duty, I would really like to be able to continue to shoot there. I will be in for this if it gets up an running.

Dont play it down too much from the LEO and Mil comp. For safety reasons the only event I can see being an issue is the O course.

If you would like any help or ideas on this feel free to call or email, Eric and Sgt Smith should still have my contact info.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

ill let you know Ryan..alot of the reduction in events would be for time. We have to fit what we can in 2 days. I can see us pulling off 6 to 7 events in a 2 day period..with maybe 40 to 50 shooters..if we could get that many

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

ok ...one more issue that came up..not sure if this will eliminate many shooters or not..but our range (at least the steel) isnt rated for larger than .308. So if we limited it to .30 cal or less would that put out alot of shooters? Some of our events could be run with larger but the steel events would have to be limited.

Sorry for so many questions but I need to get my @$#! together so i can have the answers when im asked.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Eric,

Looking back at the posts I'd have to agree with John B., you run a good course. That being said you might want to consider setting it off by 6 mos or so from the LEO/Mil course. Your town/county has been more than gracious the last 3 events I have attended but a back to back weekend may add a bit of strain to the environment.

I think you could put together a very strong Civ course w/o modifying things too much but as John Lester pointed out the firing lines in civ matches are kind of fluid and police/NRA rules would get bruised in the process. LEO and Mil are used to waiting around, civ's not so much. The working man thing also weighs heavily on folks time.

Crawl before you walk and damn sure before you run. Try a small group as a test run you have a significant quantity of assets available if you ask.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[toddconley]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I am in based on dates of course. Please keep me in the loop.
Thanks,
T

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Thanks for the input doc, I fear the ONLY way we could offer this is if we squeeze it in with the conference. Brass wouldnt be up for us doing another competition seperate from the one in Sept. big drag on manpower. they arent big on letting us do this anyway but if we convince them we were already at the range and set up they may go for it.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

dates will most likely be Sept 5,6 IF we can do it

 

[Edgewater]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

"Crawl before you walk and damn sure before you run. Try a small group as a test run you have a significant quantity of assets available if you ask."

I second this! I can think of a recently held match that did not follow this and failed greatly.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

im not so much worried about the events or the running...I think we have our LEO/Mil match dialed in..just a matter of working out the civilian match vs the other. I am planning on running it almost exactly like the other match with an fewer number of events for time sake. Just got to work out the differences between shooting 40 teams and shooting 40 individuals.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Doc maybe we just run a small group of selected civ shooters and run them through some events...the maybe try an event next year. Offer it to shooters for free just to shoot the event for fun with no prizes or entry fee.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Eric,

What I think I'm trying to get across is that Civ shooters are there to shoot, (round count counts). It will not bode well to have 19 teams (38 shooters) sitting around while one team or two shooters run at a time. Mil and Leo are willing to do that, different mind set, different objective.

I have an idea for that but it will necessarily be dynamic. Your target packages will have to be "Go, No-Go" and en mass as in all of them will have to be down range with no swap outs or golf cart checks. The Gastonia Sniper Conf. has a very different feel that works well for Mil & LEO since the sitting around lends to swapping of ideas and tactics between Depts etc. Civ's may yuk it up but sharing ideas, dope, tactics etc ...... not so much, especially if you add a trophy or a prize table based on performance.

Believe me I'm not trying to toss a bucket of ice water on the idea. I am cautioning you (with the best of intentions) that the mindset will be very different between what you have now and what you are attempting to do. A dry run of 12 ish shooters to run your concept fast and hard will net you volumes of info.

Don't forget the resources you have in other depts that may be willing to come play RO during a civi shoot on a weekend for a day of training at your facility.

Determine your objectives. (Why do you want to do this thing?)
Evaluate your assets (Who can help you?)
Plan
Practice
Re-evaluate (No plan survives first contact.)
Finalize
Evaluate against your original goals.
Confirm your assets.


Grab a big hand full and jump

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Thanks for the info..I think what im trying to work out is a way to shoot 10 at a time mon our Rifle range and just do a time limit vs a total time. We can not run that many on our long range or the lake stuff more than one at a time..that may lend to a slower pace then thay are used to.. We have the short pistol range and the new pistol range but the only thing we really have to shoot mulitple on is the rifle range. So im not sure if it will be what most would like or expect. It would have to be divided into groups of 10 or so shooters..and be running multiple ranges. But it will be alot of people who will have to shoot one at a time for scoring purposes.
So maybe this conversion to what we know and are comfortable running to something out of our element would not turn out as well as we hope. Who knows..we are still awaiting approval so we do not even know if we can attempt it.

 

[Todd Morris]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

I certainly hope that this works out for a civilian match.I would just echo John's post: "Keep it the same,don't change a thing."This will probably be the only time some of us will have the priviledge of shooting on a course like this.
Let everyone know up front that it will be physically demanding and let the chips fall where they may.
I'm 10 hours west and would gladly drive that to be able to participate.
Thanks for the consideration,
Todd

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

well if we do run it then it would have to run pretty much the same as the other match..the only major drawback is that means some downtime between events. Some events we can only run one shooter at a time due to obstacles or space contraints. Out of the 6 or 7 we are looking at only about 2 would run multiple shooters. So it would have some physical aspects but it would also be some downtime for the shooters. So im not sure how many would enjoy that. I know the Mil/ LEO that is almost expected..each team wants the range to themselves and they shoot seperate. So who knows...if we get the approval maybe we just run it as is and see what the people think of it. Either they will enjoy the shoot and want to come back or its a bust and we throw out the civilian part..
Hopefully the events will translate to some fun for the civilian shooters and be some stuff they dont often get to run.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

and the Benefit from John, Doc and Ryan is that they have run through our whole event..Though they did it as teams and not individuals

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

One real option:

If you want to run a trial run of your ideas I am open for it to be done at a Juniper Swamp Tactical match Eric.

so if you want to come see one of my shoots see the different style then practice your COF at my place as a dry run of sorts I am game for the June / July match.

Hit me up, or call me ok.

As always I am here to help.

 

[Gpdsniper110]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

that might not be a bad idea John..run a few of the events just to see how they are taken...

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Gastonia Sniper Conference Civilian shoot ??

Yes sir.

My next match is 12 March, if you want to come out ad shoot some or just see how it rolls.

Then take ideas from it and go with it.

John