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Create a channel Learn more@Fig - I dont disagree.
I do remember from the body cam videos they did call for EMS 2x.
And while not a cop, having been in many a wrasslin match where my safety was on the line with folks on meth, its not always so cut and dry.
By easing restraint on their body, the high person often becomeS crazy and violent again.
Coupled with a couple of the cops on scene being brand new and not having a clue, perhaps the officer wasnt comfortable they could control him if he went ballistic again.
And yes, a prone and cuffed strong person on meth can inflict major damage to people.
Im not saying it was all right, just seeing the other side with some experience of what its like.
Saw a screen shot of a police training slide for that department where they train that officers exact positioning for someone having drug induced psychosis......
This will get ugly in a court of law.
People know it. People know more innocent will die. The false narrative will be pushed because its not about police reform.
Seems like cases where they intentionally with hold much of the video, and create their own narrative, might start getting them sued by more of the victims of their truth bending. When you settle out of court is there a precedence set?
I read somewhere else that he had lethal doses of drugs in his system, which I tend to believe because it's not unheard of for perps to down their drugs before interacting with the police and then self induce vomitting after the event is over. They do it to not get caught with them on their person.
Fentanyl 11 ng/mL seems like a fucking lot of fentanyl, not that I'm a doctor or anything but I understand nanograms per millilitre of blood.
Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL also seems like a fucking lot of meth, again not a doctor though.
I did find this though:
"Overdose results in respiratory depression which is reversible with naloxone. Sudden death can also occur because of cardiac arrest or severe anaphylactic reaction. The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg. The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml. Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved. While fatalities have been reported after therapeutic use, many deaths have occurred as a result of the misuse of pharmaceutical products. Both used and unused fentanyl patches have been injected, smoked, snorted or taken orally with fatal consequences."
Fentanyl drug profile | www.euda.europa.eu
Fentanyl drug profile Chemistry Physical form Pharmacology Non-pharmaceutical fentanyls Synthesis Mode of use Other names Analysiswww.emcdda.europa.eu
He had 3x a lethal dose of fent.
It is routine in an ER to give 50-100 mcg IV push for severe pain.
These patients are on oxygen, on a pulse oximeter, and a cardiac monitor.
monitored by experienced RNs, Paramedics, and EMTs. For each patient, an RN knows what was up and was responsible.
(the above is my experience in a badass level 1 trauma center, may vary by place)
Also, fentanyl has a VERY short half life. So if he had that much in system by the blood drawn (who knows exactly when), what was it before???
facts about the science of fentanyl arent really debatable.
his dose tolerance is, but is Pure speculation.
Two wrongs got us here. First was Floyd. Second was the cop. Bpth fucked up. If Floyd had not passed the bad check, no police would have been needed. And if the cop wasn't a power tripping asshat, Floyd would likely still have died, but not the way he was filmed.
Just curious and not trying to start conflict, I have a question. Did you watch the bodycam video? I don't know anyone that watches it and still has that viewpoint. You can see GF is already wacked out when they approach, says he can't breathe from the beginning, and asks to be put on the ground.
When watching from police POV, I'm not seeing anything done wrong. Just a suggestion but it would be wise to watch it to understand why Chauvin won't get convicted because that is likely the outcome and there will be another round of chaos.
I ain’t a medical expert but I’ve seen 5 opioid OD’s up close and personal. In 2 instances no 911 was even needed due to me bringing em back myself with mouth to mouth and keeping them awake thereafter.I have as of yet to see the whole video. What ultimately interests me is if they could have narcaned him had they been paying attention and he would have come back? That could be a key determinant of a negligent homicide/manslaughter charge sticking.
2 mg wont even stop withdrawals from occurring in some people. Ive known or talked to some of these people. Nobody knows what Floyd's tolerance was except Floyd himself. And you might be surprised how high tolerance can go. Knew of a guy who fraudulently made his own company, and then ordered beta-hydroxy-4-methyl fentanyl(4-methyl not 3-methyl, it hadnt been made before) from a chemical supply company. Even gave it his own name. He got up to doing 20mg/day of the stuff before getting busted... said the w/d's were like a horrendous constant bath of electrified icy hot LOL.From a doctor of nurse anesthesia who watched the bodycam footage of the GF arrest: there's a point early in the video where Floyd turns his head and seems to place something in his mouth. I.e he had fentynal on him and didn't want to be caught with it so he ingested it. Right after, he turns back towards the bodycam and it can be seen on his tongue. 2 milligrams of fentynal on his tongue! The most a patient in surgery is given is 200 MICROgrams. 2 milligrams of fentynal is about a 1000x the lethal dose? George Floyd killed himself. Chauvin just got the blame for it.
You are a serious trader in speculation, aren't you?Chauvin had a history with Floyd. It is reported they had recently got into it when Floyd worked at a nightclub and Chauvin was police security at said club and Floyd was fired over it. A smart police officer would have let another officer take lead. Fuzzy memory but IIRC Chauvin even recognized Floyd and seemed to be enjoying arresting him.
You are a serious trader in speculation, aren't you?
You are a serious trader in speculation, aren't you?
A professional would not need to do what you suggest is the correct course of action because he would have acted professionally with someone he had history with.Looks like they did know each other and butted heads. A professional would have asked one of the other three officers to take point and arrest the guy.
George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other and “bumped heads,” reveals former colleague
A former colleague of theirs breaks his silence and reveals Derek Chauvin and George Floyd not only knew each other, but did not get along.www.revolt.tv
Cop power-tripped, screwed up, and now his life is toast. No excuses. Good riddance.
Unfortunately, we’re all paying the price for his abuse of power and now it’s open-season on cops who use necessary force.
Good cops are a necessary component of a civil society. If they’d police and purge their own ranks, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Thats kinda my point. Just because he had fentanyl in his system doesnt mean he OD'd. Even if it was “3x the lethal dose” determined mathematically from its therapeutic dosage, or extrapolated from tests on rats...not even counting that he likely had a decent tolerance. He likely was using it daily.@Forgetful Coyote - anecdotal evidence of use of drugs on the street is a lot different that many years of difficult education, boards, and prior nursing experience required to be a CRNA.
also the purity of street fentanyl is always in question.
only a high end lab or a tox screen such as Floyds can really say how much fentanyl is in a guys system.
most tox screens ran just have a threshold and the person is pos or neg. costs a lot More to run the test to determine just how much was in a persons blood.
And dont forget, dude also did meth. Had it in him. So his state would not be the same as the average junky.
Thats kinda my point. Just because he had fentanyl in his system doesnt mean he OD'd. Even if it was “3x the lethal dose” determined mathematically from its therapeutic dosage, or extrapolated from tests on rats...not even counting that he likely had a decent tolerance. He likely was using it daily.
And if he ate it to destroy evidence, bioavailability of fent orally is quite low. Wouldn't have had as much effect as you might think. Fentanyl has quite the potency, but also a nice safe therapeutic index, hence its wide usage in medicine.
It could've played a factor, but I can tell you it wasn't opioid overdose induced death.
I think this was proven to be less than reliable information. The co-owner of the nightclub recanted his story about the two having a run-in.Chauvin had a history with Floyd. It is reported they had recently got into it when Floyd worked at a nightclub and Chauvin was police security at said club and Floyd was fired over it. A smart police officer would have let another officer take lead. Fuzzy memory but IIRC Chauvin even recognized Floyd and seemed to be enjoying arresting him.
You are a serious trader in speculation, aren't you?A professional would not need to do what you suggest is the correct course of action because he would have acted professionally with someone he had history with.
By the way, did you read the posted transcript of the encounter from beginning to end? You seem to have a hard-on for Derek Chauvin regardless of facts.
You are a serious trader in speculation, aren't you?
5 OD's. None died. Brought back 2 of them myself, personally... The 3 that I couldnt, had alcohol/benzos to go along with it.I am going to sound like a dick, but how many opiate induced deaths have you been a part of?
Or watched the respiratory depression or respiratory arrest in person and did something about it?
You are a nice guy. I enjoy you on the forum.
Speaking with authority those of us that have done this hundreds or thousands of times will not because we know we dont know everything seems strange.
This dude was squirming and wrestling until they put him out on the ground, and then pleading with the officer that he couldnt breathe.. almost as if his chest muscles were getting more and more tired from inhaling with all the weight on him?