Rifle Scopes Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

[Lowlight]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

The point to the whole thing is more about people who huff and puff and act as though they are owed something from a company... like I supported you in the past and bought a scope from you, now you owe it to me to never change the prices... that kind of thinking is what I am talking about.

regardless once Shot Show rolls around you'll all be whistling a new NF song anyway.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point to the whole thing is more about people who huff and puff and act as though they are owed something from a company... like I supported you in the past and bought a scope from you, now you owe it to me to never change the prices... that kind of thinking is what I am talking about.

regardless once Shot Show rolls around you'll all be whistling a new NF song anyway. </div></div>

You raised my eyebrows the other day when you said that you thought NF was the best pound for pound value scope. Knowing that you have a large flight of S&B's, I thought that was a big statement. My next scope will be a NF.

 

[badshooter]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, craftmen has lifetime guarantee they are less than snap on </div></div>

Go to Sears with a auto tech uniform on and see what they tell you. "Not warranted for professional use" Besides, they dont come by and pick up my broken or worn out tools every week.

Tasco has a lifetime warranty and they cost less than Premier.... I think you know where that leads.

I shouldn't even be posting in this thread, I can't afford to whistle the Leupold song, much less the Premier song, if they even have one.

 

[ZOMBIE101]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And why don't I go somewhere else and "cry the blues"? Because the internet is a <span style="font-weight: bold">Public domain</span> where the FIRST amendment to the US Constitution still does apply. Yeah, really. It’s a public domain, not a private kingdom. You know, real live democracy in action? </div></div>

Got some bad news for ya'. It <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">is</span></span> a private kingdom, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Low Light OWNS </span></span>this forum, and can edit your posts at will, remove your posts, or...remove you. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">There is no first amendment on one of these sites</span>.</span> It's ludicrous to presume so.

Frankly, I'm surprised you're still a member and have access after this post of yours I’m partially quoting.

 

[Tribe]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the great thing about the free market. It is a self correcting structure. If PH gets too high and looses market share to NF, then they will correct with discounts, rebates, etc. I think it's ironic that those who rant "Constitutional freedom" also bitch about the free market acting...free. This has a weird entitlement sound to it like somehow we are "owed" a good price on a product we want. If the air gets too thin up there, they will drop to a lower altitude. ALL scope companies will price their products in order to make maximum profit. They don't exist to provide the market with good scopes. They exist to make a profit. The day that stops, the good scopes go away as well. I want these companies to make a healthy profit, just not all of it on me. I want their R&D dept. to be robust. I want their sales staff to get good bonuses. And I want their dealers to make money as well. This is all called "FREEDOM" and if you don't like it, move to a country with central control over commerce. The other great option is to indeed "vote with the wallet." This is called "FREEDOM" as well.

If PH wants to sell only to the elite, guess what? That's their right.

God bless free enterprise and God bless America!!!

</div></div>
This here is gospel.

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Although I planned on buying a PH in the next 3 or 4 months for a new build and probably won't now, there will be no bitching from me. Rather, I'm trying to understand why the fuck Premier would raise their prices 25% right now. I've got a couple degrees (admittedly though, I'm no econ expert) and I can't figure out for the life of me how they can possibly think that this will work out for them in the end. Sure they'll make more money on the scopes they sell, but as is evidenced by the response in this thread, they're going to sell less scopes. Add to that the current shitty state of the country's economy and the lack of certainty in many job markets, and the price increase makes even less sense. Obviously I don't know what their costs or margins are on their products, but I can't imagine that this will work out well for them.

As others have said though, they can do what they want, and the market will dictate what happens in the end. (Personally though, I'm bummed because I was looking forward to picking one up at the old pretty reasonable price.)

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ALMAORFE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the premier hangs right in there with S&B regardless of price. </div></div>

Ummm, no.

</div></div>

Ummm yes. I agree that it does also and do not regret selling my S&B 5-25 to go with the PH. Id do it again if given the chance. At the price Liberty was selling these at, I am in no way surprised the price is going up. Im still shocked i was able to get this high of quality optic for the price it was offered.

I will agree the that NF F1 5.5-22 would be a nice competitor, but I like PH nice big knobs. i also like the defined click difference at every moa increment. After all the NF, USo, and S&B I went through to get here. Im glad I finally found a home with all these high end optics.

 

[ALMAORFE]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Yea man it's right there with them.

Really once I get to shooting I don't notice whats on top of my gun or how cool the gun I'm shooting is, I'm completely engrossed in the shot at hand couldn't care one way or the other if it's new, old, trendy or if the company is run by assholes or whatever, I'm shootin. I just want shit thats gonna work for me and thats it.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the great thing about the free market. It is a self correcting structure. If PH gets too high and looses market share to NF, then they will correct with discounts, rebates, etc. I think it's ironic that those who rant "Constitutional freedom" also bitch about the free market acting...free. This has a weird entitlement sound to it like somehow we are "owed" a good price on a product we want. If the air gets too thin up there, they will drop to a lower altitude. ALL scope companies will price their products in order to make maximum profit. They don't exist to provide the market with good scopes. They exist to make a profit. The day that stops, the good scopes go away as well. I want these companies to make a healthy profit, just not all of it on me. I want their R&D dept. to be robust. I want their sales staff to get good bonuses. And I want their dealers to make money as well. This is all called "FREEDOM" and if you don't like it, move to a country with central control over commerce. The other great option is to indeed "vote with the wallet." This is called "FREEDOM" as well.

If PH wants to sell only to the elite, guess what? That's their right.

God bless free enterprise and God bless America!!!

</div></div>

very well said...

In the business world, as many of you know the product sells are like a pyramid with price causing more to be sold or less. It also depends on quality of the product, word of mouth, customer service...etc. Like what was said above, the market will self correct as it always does. The one thing the PH Company has to know is that when they raise their price by 25% they will lose a certain amount of sales. That of course will be their delta for the year and then if their sales drop too much they will have to figure out how to raise volume...as in drop prices or add incentives such as coupons.

But 25%...that is pretty drastic of an increase and I am sure they will lose sales.

I guess I will have to use the IOR for a lot longer.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Well I just bought a 5-25 PRH, I cannot comment on my experience with it, because it has not been shipped, I wanted more power than 3-15, I bitched more than once about PR here, but I got a scope with the features I wanted for 1k less than a S&B, and I really wanted the S&B, I am blessed that I can afford it, what it come down to for me was money, a thousand dollars difference was my deciding factore, I hope I didn't make a mistake, I hope that this scope is GTG, I hope it was a good deal, if it's a POS so be it, I will get something else, and tell the world of my experiences. Everybody needs to think about this, MAP went up 10%, but the dealer cost went up 25%, that cuts into the dealers profit margin, an assload less money to be made per unit will cause people like Scott at Libertyoptics to look for other products to sell instead, PR screwed the dealers not the end users.

 

[cjgemm]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point to the whole thing is more about people who huff and puff and act as though they are owed something from a company... like I supported you in the past and bought a scope from you, now you owe it to me to never change the prices... that kind of thinking is what I am talking about.

regardless once Shot Show rolls around you'll all be whistling a new NF song anyway. </div></div>

Very interested to see what NF has in store, how they price it and what it will do to the rest of their product line.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point to the whole thing is more about people who huff and puff and act as though they are owed something from a company... like I supported you in the past and bought a scope from you, now you owe it to me to never change the prices... that kind of thinking is what I am talking about.

regardless once Shot Show rolls around you'll all be whistling a new NF song anyway. </div></div>

Personally, I did not come on here to bitch about anyones business practices. Although I don't agree with any company telling one of their distributors that they can't advertise a sale price to get rid of some product.

I simply posted to say 25% is huge and when comparing a NF to a PH in the same mag range a 25% price difference is enough to get me to rule the more expensive one out. I'm a consumer and that's how I feel. PH, NF, and S&B all deserve to know how their decisions affect me as a potential customer.

I'm glad Scott at Liberty has passed this information to us and I know that he does take care of us and this is not his doing.

As a consumer I like to have choices but, in my price range, their aren't many.

I love my PH but sadly I may not be able get another. NF F1 it is then.

 

[rksimple]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I love my PH but sadly I may not be able get another. </div></div>

+1. Nightforce and Vortex just became a little more interesting to me.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

From the profiles I've read about Premier, they clearly want to position themselves next to S@B. This price increase will certainly do that. In the end, however, it makes NF look more attractive under them and I think it will make S@B more attractive next to them. S@B may actually see a bump in sales because of PH's price increase. But I have this funny feeling that the guys at Premier have thought this stuff through. Maybe just a little.

My guess is that they have been sitting on the need to raise their prices for a while and have chosen not to until now. 25% is a whack but not if it reflects 2 or 3 other increases along the way that didn't happen.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> S@B may actually see a bump in sales because of PH's price increase. But I have this funny feeling that the guys at Premier have thought this stuff through. Maybe just a little. </div></div>

I totally agree.

I sure that guys who have greater means then I will be in the same situation I was in with comparing NF and PH they will now compare S&B and PH and we will see who wins. If I were in that "tax bracket" I might still choose the PH just 'cause it's an American company.

I'm also sure that they've weighed the difference between selling more scopes for a lesser profit and selling less scopes for a larger profit. I mean, if they are selling less scopes then they don't need to produce many of them, that allows them to have less employees and have lower manufacturing costs.

It just sucks for me personally.

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm also sure that they've weighed the difference between selling more scopes for a lesser profit and selling less scopes for a larger profit. I mean, if they are selling less scopes then they don't need to produce many of them, that allows them to have less employees and have lower manufacturing costs.

It just sucks for me personally.
</div></div>

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work this way. It's not always much cheaper to produce less product. Like I said before though, they know their costs just a little better than I do. I still can't see it making much financial sense to increase priced by 25% in the midst of the worst economy in almost a century and when other optics manufacturers are stepping up with new products at lower prices. It may very well be that they think that increasing prices will put them on the same pedestal as S&B, and maybe it will. I just hope they haven't underestimated the impact the significantly higher price will have on their sales numbers, and that it works out for them financially.

 

[Impact]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

time to order one

should I get the mil dot or gen 2Xr reticle ? I kinda like the mil dot though (all my scopes have it).

 

[ALMAORFE]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I got the Gen 2XR and wish now I would've just got the gen2 or plain mildot. It's not that big a deal but I find the XR a bit too much. The gen2 mildot is more comparable to a P4 which is what I've preffered.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I have the 3-15 with GenII mildot. I would go with it again.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Guys,

A company can charge what ever they want.

You can pay for it or not.

Quit bitching and buy one, or do not buy one, its up to you.

Some of you buy used cars, some buy only new, get what you can afford, enjoy that optic and stop chasing the unicorn.

John

 

[sharac]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I think a lot of grief comes because people support their brand and feel cheated when prices go up. Most of you americans prefer to buy homemade (reasonable of course) and many companies build their marketing around that (made in usa etc...). But businesses aren't charities and they use whatever they can for profit (thats the name of the game in capitalism) and one day selling on patriotism doesn't necessarily mean patriotism is going to sell it tomorrow. I think doing business with local people is good with certain items and in some areas one can severely limit ones options (for me it's a non issue since most of the tech stuff gets imported and is mostly made in china/elsewhere) and to some extent give companies "easy sell". I don't even want to speculate about Heritage pricing but as i see it (if i were to live in USA) one needs to weigh pros and cons and see what fits most. Adding 25% on costs side will mean more cons for this brand and as we all have our own budget in the end consumers will either justify this raise (via sales and more income) or prove this was a bad move (via less sales and loss of market share). I'm pretty sure whatever the reasons for increase now if it hurts sales they will quite quickly drop the pricing to more acceptable levels.

 

[brutus1776]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, craftmen has lifetime guarantee they are less than snap on </div></div>

Go to Sears with a auto tech uniform on and see what they tell you. "Not warranted for professional use" Besides, they dont come by and pick up my broken or worn out tools every week.

Tasco has a lifetime warranty and they cost less than Premier.... I think you know where that leads.

I shouldn't even be posting in this thread, I can't afford to whistle the Leupold song, much less the Premier song, if they even have one. </div></div>

really?
i take my craftsman junk in to sears all the time, broken, after work with my uniform on and they hand me back new whatever i hand them broken.
never heard of the 'professional' thing before.

i think the guys that use tools every day realize after a while there is a reason why we use snap on...
its the same with glass... sure a life time warranty tasco MIGHT handle the job and last, but we all know real glass WILL handle the job and last.

buy once cry once

 

[ToddM]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

As others have said I'm sure Scott did this to help *US* out, not start a huge shit storm about the reasons why. Anyone seriously thinking about a PH obviously should try and make the order if possible by Dec. 23rd or you can figure it's going to cost you $400-500 more.

My guess is it's hurting dealers more than customers. If Scott's cost goes up 25% but MAP only goes up 10%, dealer profit is going to be reduced. In fact Premier's web page already shows a new MSRP of $2900 for both scopes.

As to the S&B issue....Premier can want to put their product next to S&B all they want, but increasing the price doesn't make it so. As lowlight says all scopes break, but there are way more S&B and NF scopes out there being abused than PH scopes but you hear about way fewer problems with either. Show me a $3000 S&B, $2600 PH, and $2600 F1 5-25 and the PH is at the bottom of my list until they can demonstrate they have the bugs worked out for a significant amount of product numbers and time. Companies are lucky that most customers are simply not as demanding about quality for their $ as I am. I'm sure PH will still sell lots of scopes and many guys will love them. They sell like hot cakes it seems at the current price, so I'm sure they will sell at a higher price.

The real sad part is we still have NO solid mid range FFP tactical scope options in the $1000-1500 price range. It amazes me that companies are missing this boat because it's the size of a *#@($* cruise ship.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

My guess is that these scopes were probably priced at cost, just to get some out there for word of mouth. PH was willing to do that in order to promote their product. Now they have a good rep and they need to have a slight price increase from where they should have been priced at before.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Thats pretty frickin brave, and if I say so, the demise of their sales.

You dont come out with a new product, that it not time tested and no real (i.e. military, LE, or the like) time and tested proven reliablity, and price it as high as the highest priced scopes in the world.

S&B is the epitome of rifle scopes, with decades of proven service, and there is a price to be paid for that, I understand that. However, this will kill Premier, I guarentee it. They just took their scopes out of about 80% of shooters budgets, and the others I know who can afford it, would rather a S&B, and for real good reason.

As said before, nice knowing you Premier. Nightforce for me, thank you very much.

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Premier can get their price from me if the new 25% more scopes are shorter and lighter. Otherwise, my eyes are on the March scopes when the guns I want (Bushmaster ACR and Kel-Tec RFB target edition) arrives.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And by the way folks, I personally believe this thread is about a retailer (Liberty) that actually gives a damn about the customer giving an honest heads up to folks that may be on the fence about buying now or later to save them some dough. Scott does everything he can to help those of us that, as you put it, have to buy our own scopes. </div></div>

Thank you sir, and to the others that alluded to this in your comments.

This was a "short notice" deal and as perhaps the leading Premier retailer of 2009, I knew many of you were saving up or on the fence for early 2010. I just wanted to state the cold, hard written facts so you would be immediately informed....obviously I've succeeded. This changes the landscape in 2010 for us, too.

I didn't mean to get anyone upset (though I admit this was a potential by-product of the post) and I regret that some passions boiled over and got someone in trouble. Ranger, hope to see you again soon. I understand how you feel but the reality is this is Frank's house, Franks rules. He is the Commandant of this vessel. If you don't return, stay in touch.

Now, all this talk about NF as the only alternative. I disagree. The Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 is intrinsically a better made, more costly, and higher spec'd scope than any NSX, for less money. Regardless of what you hear or read, if you don't push this scope to the top of the list in the $2000 scope category (a category the Premier has now left behind, and may have never wanted to be at) I sincerely believe you are selling yourself short. I think time will support this assertion once the Razor gets out there more.

Another clarification, the 2009 pricing will apply to all dealer orders until December 23, so once that stock runs down, 2010 pricing will apply. Of course, dealers are free to set their pricing anyway they wish but I assure you 2009 pricing will remain in effect at LO for all stock purchased at the current prices.

Scott

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

**********************************************************
Scott's phones are ringing off the hook. I called him yesterday and he was just now able to get back to me. The whole time we talked all his phones were ringing in the background. Just FYI. He isn't ignoring you if he hasn't called anyone back.
**********************************************************

 

[Rob01]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 is intrinsically a better made, more costly, and higher spec'd scope than any NSX, for less money. </div></div>

That's quite a bold statement for a brand new untested scope that's barely out on the market. We'll see if it holds true when it gets in more people's hands.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

All else aside, I think this either portends some enormous news for PH or something not so good. I don't think it's the result of 'we priced at cost to get the word out' and now it's at the price it 'should' be. I don't know what to make of firing people at Xmas Eve...!

What I don't get is that they're hitting their dealers more than their customers. At the end of the day, you don't buy through Premier directly, its the dealer - who also has to make a profit. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw less enthusiasm for the premiers being stocked ad pushed by the dealers as a result. In business, you have to be good to your friends...

Then again, it could also be absolutely anything!

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Team Bukakke has now added Libertyoptics to our perferred vendor list

 

[Rob01]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What I don't get is that they're hitting their dealers more than their customers. At the end of the day, you don't buy through Premier directly, its the dealer - who also has to make a profit. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw less enthusiasm for the premiers being stocked ad pushed by the dealers as a result. In business, you have to be good to your friends...

</div></div>

I don't think it will effect dealers very much in the long run. They just adjust their product lines they sell. Scott will be fine with other lines like the Vortex he was mentioning. Yes the profit margin in the Premiers might drop but so will the sales and the gap will be filled with other products. The dealers treatment of the customers more so than the products they sell will effect their business and Scott will be fine in that regard as he is very good to his customers.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What I don't get is that they're hitting their dealers more than their customers. At the end of the day, you don't buy through Premier directly, its the dealer - who also has to make a profit. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw less enthusiasm for the premiers being stocked ad pushed by the dealers as a result. In business, you have to be good to your friends...

</div></div>

I don't think it will effect dealers very much in the long run. They just adjust their product lines they sell. Scott will be fine with other lines like the Vortex he was mentioning. Yes the profit margin in the Premiers might drop but so will the sales and the gap will be filled with other products. The dealers treatment of the customers more so than the products they sell will effect their business and Scott will be fine in that regard as he is very good to his customers.</div></div>

Oh for sure - I actually got my Premier from Scott and as soon as I've sold it (unless I get a trade first) I intend to go to Scott with money in hand for a Nightforce. I was questioning the logic on Premier's side, not Scott's.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 is intrinsically a better made, more costly, and higher spec'd scope than any NSX, for less money. </div></div>

That's quite a bold statement for a brand new untested scope that's barely out on the market. We'll see if it holds true when it gets in more people's hands. </div></div>

Not at all. It's true. I am referring to the material, tolerances, and specs. That has nothing to do with market saturation. That scope has had the snot tested out of it before it ever hit the market. It is made and spec'd to be durable, reliable, accurate, and with very high grade optics. Every component in the competition's scopes were analyzed, dissected, and any weaknesses or potential weaknesses were identified and the Razor's components were designed to exceed the need. Sam @ Vortex is a details- oriented engineering maniac and he knows his business. Plus Vortex always gives you the best product for the money.

I am guilty of saying the Razor would make the NXS irrelevant, and that wasn't a smart thing to say. Nightforce has a "tactical" track record literally unmatched in the industry, and they are top dog. Facts are facts.

However, take an F1 and a Razor side by side and work them out, get subjective feedback on the glass, do all the box testing, test the ruggedness, reticle, whatever, and the Vortex, <span style="font-style: italic">at the worst</span>, will concede nothing to the NXS. But it costs less!!! That's why I harp on them.

Scott

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What I don't get is that they're hitting their dealers more than their customers. At the end of the day, you don't buy through Premier directly, its the dealer - who also has to make a profit. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw less enthusiasm for the premiers being stocked ad pushed by the dealers as a result. In business, you have to be good to your friends...

</div></div>

The dealers treatment of the customers more so than the products they sell will effect their business and Scott will be fine in that regard as he is very good to his customers. </div></div>

Rob,

Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate it!

Scott

 

[Rob01]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
However, take an F1 and a Razor side by side and work them out, get subjective feedback on the glass, do all the box testing, test the ruggedness, reticle, whatever, and the Vortex, <span style="font-style: italic">at the worst</span>, will concede nothing to the NXS. But it costs less!!! That's why I harp on them.

Scott</div></div>

I'd love to compare them. I have done everything you said to the two F1s I have and they have not let me down after shooting them at matches and practice all year. The F1s were tested and fielded by the military for a year before they were even released to the civilian market. I don't see them letting me down.

I hope the Vortex does well as there is always room for another quality FFP scope on the market in the same price range. I hope to get my hands on one at SHOT and give it a quick fondle. You should try to get them to include rings and a sunshade in the package as NF does with the F1.

And you're very welcome as it's true you do take care of your customers.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Oh for sure - I actually got my Premier from Scott and as soon as I've sold it (unless I get a trade first) I intend to go to Scott with money in hand for a Nightforce. I was questioning the logic on Premier's side, not Scott's. </div></div>

Didn't know Scott dealt NF but then again I think this thread is way off its intended course as it is.

 

[patches]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Bottom line is this:

In most economic situations like this the market for the said product (Premier) is self leveling/adjusting. If pricing for the product is perceived to be too high consumers will not purchase the product and opt for a alternative with a higher value to price ratio. Therefore forcing the manufacturer to to adjust their price to become competitive.
Whatever the reason for their scopes going up it should be none of our concerns. These scopes are not a necessity for life and in my mind are considered a luxury good. If the market can sustain these scopes selling for a 25% increase then more power to them. The end user is getting what they believe to be a value and can justify the expense.
If you don't like it not buying the product is the best way to speak your mind. It comes down to cost justification and only the future will tell if their pricing strategy will be successful.

BTW...... LL, Victor is going to get you....

 

[Guest]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

LMAO.

At all of it.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......or be prepared to pay ALOT more later. 2009 pricing will be in effect only for all existing stock or incoming stock bought or ordered by December 23. After that, dealer cost climbs 25%. That is not a misprint.

I know times are tough and it's the holidays but take it as gospel that the Heritage will never be priced as low as it is right now.

Just FYI. If you would like to order drop us a line. Otherwise, you will have to save several hundred more dollars in 2010 to land the Heritage.

Thanks.

Scott</div></div>



Damn, I want a PR 5-25X56 but I am going to have to wait until March or April.
I love my PH 3-15X50 but this sure makes me look harder at that Vortex Razor for the price.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shaggyback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMAO.

At all of it.</div></div>

Thanks, I feel better knowing I'm not the only one.

 

[mac37]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I had a 3-15 and now have a 5-25. These are great scopes, with great customer service and Scott is a great dealer. Too bad more people won't be buying them with the price increase. But...I have a feeling the used market will have reasonably priced 5-25's. There is always someone selling just what you need on the hide.

What Premier needs is a big government contract! It might help to keep their costs contained.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

If they move into Schmidt pricing, I'm just going to get a Schmidt. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

ETA: I have one Premier and one in the mail. Next one is going to be a 3-12 PMII by the look of it.

 

[robdes]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I have bought two Premier scopes from Scott (a 5-25 and a 3-15) So far, they seem pretty good. My BIG concern with this price increase is that they are going to price themselves out of the market and go out of business. It seems that almost all of us agree that a big selling point for Premier was their price point as compared to S&B's. Besides the price, one of the main reasons that I bought them was b/c of the customer service. I seem to have bad luck with gear and I pretty much expect to send most shit I buy back to the manufacturer at some point. I wasn't too concerned about the stories of some of the scopes having problems. I knew that I could send it back and have it fixed.

I hope that I am way wrong about this.

Scott- please chime in and lay my fears to rest.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

When Scott first quoted A PH for me i had to call him directly to confirm it wasn't a misprint. It turns out it wasn't a misprint, so I bought one. At the current price point, the scope is a bargain, and will continue to be after the increase.

At the time of that purchase, Scott warned me about the price increase he knew was coming in 2010. I know I'm not the only one he told. This is no surprise to me. If the market can't handle it, I'm sure it will be fixed.

Premier isn't some fly by night company, they did wonderful things for the Leupold crowd for a long time, supplied the USMC with scopes(learning lots along the way I'm sure), and now they are building their own. They aren't going anywhere.

Maybe I missed it but was there a uproar when the Hensoldt came out? Holy sh!t that thing is expensive, and it lacks the features of the scope we are discussing here. Im still gonna buy one though.

Bitching about a few hundred bucks in a hobby that will suck up tens of thousands of dollars a year to the serious enthusiast is just funny!

Thank you Scott for the heads up to the community, you'll be hearing from me soon.

 

[Halvis]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I consider myself lucky to have snagged a used USO SN3 TPAL on the for sale forum here, in exactly the configuration I would have ordered a new one, and for about $1000 less than new. Thanks! Nick at DesertTacticalArms for the scope, Frank for the forum, and JBWIII @ USO for its incarnation. From what I have learned here, and elsewhere, it is hard to go wrong with USO, Zeiss, Hensoldt, S&B, NF the Razor & PR. The PR was certainly on my short list.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I sold motorcycles at a Honda, Yamaha & Kawasaki dealer, and I was the motocross bike specialist there. Management decided to sell every motorcycle at or close to MSRP. Our competitors in nearby cities plan was to sell as close to cost as possible, and make it up by more sales. I can assure you that they never did come close to making as much profit by selling more than we did, and profit IS the bottom line for any business, big or small. We did offer incentives they did not however, sponsorships for the better racers and discounts on parts for all. I tried to encourage management to discount more the entire time I was there, but they never did see my idea the way I did. I always felt we could discount more, but not as much as others, still offer the same great customer service and perks to those in our locality, and make more overall.

I don't know why, nor do I care why, PR is raising their prices. Its their call, and I too praise Scott for the headsup for those considering one. Right now however, I am just too thrilled with my new but pre-owned USO to get my panties in a wad over any manufacturers pricing decisions.

 

[Cartman]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Privately owned doesn't trump Federally Regulated or the US Constitution. Imagine that!
</div></div>

Personally, I would ban your arse and see how far the Constitution gets you. If you came whining in my store, house, or yard, I would similarly boot your arse and see how far you "imagin[ation] got you.

 

[Cartman]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just stretch my rights as the sole owner of this LLC ... so Ranger can take a vacation on me.
</div></div>

Oops, spoke too soon.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Prices go up..... THAT IS A FACT!!!

But a company..... ANY company..... That raises its prices 25% at one time usually is not going to be around for very long.(We are not talking about buying gasoline)

This all means that Premier had bad bussiness practices in the begining. The price they set on their scopes last January was apperently to low for them to make money. I wish them the best of luck!!!! I hate to see a US company go down,

To most though the selling point of the Premier was that they could get a scope almost as good as a Schmidt for close to 1K less. Also the scopes were less than a Nightforce F1. With a price increase of that magnitude the product IMO is going to be hard to sell.

FOR NOW

Nightforce is the best value.. and one hell of a good scope

Schmidt is still the best.. And around 20% more than Premier

GOD LUCK PREMIER!!! I wish you the best!!!