Rifle Scopes Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

[netranger6]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Prime example here. I just purchased my first custome, a GAP in AICS, built to Crusader specs. I have everything ready to go, Badger rings, badger break, rail, Atlas bipod with spigot, cleaning kit....just missing glass. So, as I scour the boards to fill my informational void, I see this thread and it becomes obvious. PH is wayyy out of my price point, but doesn't solve my problem of what glass to put on my GAP.

Then I see the thread on the new scopes from Vortex, and they seem like the price I'm willing to pay, for the return on features. If I could afford a USO/PH, etc.., then I would likely go that route if there was a 3-500$ seperationg among them. Or, I could get lucky and find a jabroni letting one go at a ridiculously low price here on the hide. Basically, if PH is going with an increase such as this, and has success, other higher end scopes are likely to follow. Simple economics. This however, creates a new market for those like the Viper PST series, and likely, a larger grab of market share.

.0002

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Scott, PM sent.

 

[fastford]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

thanks Scott, ordered!

 

[sideshowbob]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

With this price increase, they will be priced similar to S&B. I was planning on getting a Preimier in May. If Premier and S&B are the same price, then I would definitely just get a S&B. In light of this info, I will probably get a Vortex or US Optics.

 

[guy2205]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

With the price increase it is still cheaper to buy a PR than a S&B which is $5500 in Australia

 

[GBMaryland]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

To be honest, I think I like the PR Recticle better... so cheaper and more to my tastes.

Only question is if Liberty can order me one before the end of the year!

 

[dreever]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

OK, Let's say I'm going to stretch myself and plunk down the $$$ to buy one.
Then they do the price increase and can't sell them and God forbid go under like so many small businesses these days. Then if I have a problem where do i get it fxed? Or do I just end up with a very expensive paperweight?

 

[azimutha]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Probably about the only problem most people will ever have (and that should only be with early production scopes) is wanting to fix mushy clicks after some really hard use. Unless you are going to treat the scope like a tire iron, it would be the last thing I'd worry about. These things are built like a tank.

Besides, I think Premier would drop prices or offer rebates before they'd go out of business.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I don't think Premier is going anywhere. I would bet that if they can't sell them at the higher price they will lower prices or introduce rebates etc. to gain sales. You could look at it the other way. What if in 5 years the PH scope is the #1 tactical scope out there, selling for $4000. Then you'd have made a great purchase.

I'm in the market for a scope on that price level. I could spend the money now and buy a Ph 5-25 for the lower effective price. For a product that IMO does not have a bulletproof track record by any means. It has no significant testing in the military, no major contracts, no years of abuse in real world.

We have NF most likely coming out with a higher power F1, but you don't hear any reports of the F1 3-15 failing, or having issues etc. NF has a proven solid rep, at the same price level. They have a solid military track record. NF is well known not to bring products to market before they are ready. Then there is S&B, in service all over the world, for years, also a bulletproof product and rep. Again you almost never hear of anything going wrong with them. Cost is probably $300-500 more than the NF or PH after the increase.

There may be some aspects the PH scope does better than the NF or the S&B scopes. That's always the case with any product range. You can get a bad scope from any maker, but I put NF and S&B's rep and track record well above PH at this time. I'd also have to say that if I had to bet on which of the 3 is least likely to still be making scopes in 5-10 years it's PH.

Add to that over the last couple years I've been burned too many times buying into products early in their product life with amazing preliminary reviews that didn't live up to the hype.

From the sounds of it they are probably getting enough orders between now and Dec. 23rd to make their first couple of quarters in 2010 profitable anyway. By then people will have forgot all about any price increase.

 

[Turk]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Todd that is some difficult reading!

 

[WilliePete-]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Looks like I will continue to get the majority of my high end items at the second hand store..

 

[ChrisF]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......


Looks like they want to price them the same as the S&B PMIIs , trouble is they donot have the same rep .

The main attraction was , very similar features , and cheaper price point than the PMIIs .

If they are the same price , I will be buying the PMIIs over any PH .

Thats what most people will do .

Later Chris

 

[Halvis]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks Scott, ordered! </div></div>

3 words, that have probably made more sense than any of the other thousands of them posted in this thread to date. just sayin...

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that announcing a price increase for next year is a great way to clear out inventory. You can always come back and say that you aren't going to be as cruel as we had planned, and everyone is happy.

They only real way this affects me is that used prices will go up... new glass is expensive. In that vein, it seems nice used glass is sitting on the sales board longer than it did last year at this time, unscientifically. I'd have to think that sales are down for new scopes. NF must be the happiest people about this. I'd have been afraid Premier might close the price gap and make things more uncomfortable.

If you end up with price parity with S&B with the dollar this weak, you are really going to have issues, someday, maybe. Who am I kidding, probably not.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Guys, there need to ba a couple points of clarification.

Premier is increasing their price 10%, not 25% (the 25% is the DEALER price, not the MSRP).

PH is currently on the same level as S&B. Pricing aside, company aside and all the other little fanboy shit aside, product for product, they are at the same level. When you debate which PRODUCT is better, the differences become very small and mostly user preference.

A comparable PH is STILL GOING TO BE considerably cheaper than an S&B.

Scott was selling these at an AMAIZING price. He partly did this for us, he could have banked a few hundred more on each item and still been a better alternative to his competition. Do not compare what he was selling them for to the real world, 'cause it was a huge "hookin brothers up" deal. By doing so, he gained a lifetime customer in me.

If you were lucky enough (or smart enough) to buy a PH at the current price structure, you got a HELL of a deal. These scopes are WAY better than what you paid. They will fit in well with the S&B crowd and still be a less expencive option.

These were designed to, in fact, compete at the upper tier of optics, they have so far been prices well below that. It should come as no surprise that they will soon be prices with other upper tier optics.

Again, there are LOTS of options up here. NF is still a great value, but so is Premier. S&B is the shit, but a little more expencive than some of the others. Hensoldt is top of the heap in a lot of respects, but priced accordingly too.

Nothing has changed. You still have a lot of choices. They are all going to be good. You still should choose on which features fit you best. Some people don't like one thing or the other about a certain brand, thats just the way it is.

Right now, PH is about the only option that has everything I want in a scope (magnification, turrets, reticle, etc). It sucks that they are going to be more expencive, but hey, they are worth it to some. The Razor is a very close second for my list of wants. How close is up to me to figure out if it is close enough to save some bucks.

But, if the Razor proves to be a shit hot scope theat rivals the quality and features of its competitors, don't be surprized in a few years if the price goes up 10%.

Scott, thanks for the heads up. What everyone should gain from this thread is this...

Premier's will be worth what they are selling for next year. Take advantage of Scott's advice and buy now if you can. If you can't, call Scott anyway and figure something out, sell shit, horse trade, whatever. If you act quickly, you will get in on one of the best deals going in upper tier optics.

 

[lizzardking308]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dreever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, Let's say I'm going to stretch myself and plunk down the $$$ to buy one.
Then they do the price increase and can't sell them and God forbid go under like so many small businesses these days. Then if I have a problem where do i get it fxed? Or do I just end up with a very expensive paperweight? </div></div>

It would be more than a paperweight, more of a conversation piece...

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I don't think enough people have compared a PH to the S&B.

I had both in my hot little hands for over a month.

This is purely an observational report; I didn't get to shoot either.

Six of one, half-a-dozen of another.

The PH looks like an S&B on 'roids.

Although the PH is shorter, it outweighs the S&B.

I think the PH glass is a hair better than the S&B, but they are both phenomenal.

It really does come down to the steering mechanism differences of the two scopes and the ergonomics.

I traded my S&B away and kept my PH.

 

[lizzardking308]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I don't think you can really put the PH in the same category with S&B. One is more proven and tested than the other ever thought of being. I would also say the precision during the manufacturing process goes to S&B. Take the parallax for example, you can practically get a range with it on the S&B, it's that dead nuts on and repeatable, but on the PH you have to adjust the parallax if you move your erector up and down. That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy's...

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you can really put the PH in the same category with S&B.</div></div>Given that you have likely forgotten more than I’ll ever know about shooting I’ll have to cede to your superior knowledge base.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One is more proven and tested than the other ever thought of being.</div></div>You have to start somewhere…

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would also say the precision during the manufacturing process goes to S&B.</div></div>I’m not privy to the manufacturing techniques of either scope, are you? Hell, I'm not privy to the marketing techniques of either company.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Take the parallax for example, you can practically get a range with it on the S&B, it's that dead nuts on and repeatable, but on the PH you have to adjust the parallax if you move your erector up and down. That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy's... </div></div>Seems PH has some QC issues which help prove your case; my parallax doesn’t go out of adjustment when I run the erector to the top and back down to the bottom.

 

[lizzardking308]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you can really put the PH in the same category with S&B.</div></div>Given that you have likely forgotten more than I’ll ever know about shooting I’ll have to cede to your superior knowledge base.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One is more proven and tested than the other ever thought of being.</div></div>You have to start somewhere…

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would also say the precision during the manufacturing process goes to S&B.</div></div>I’m not privy to the manufacturing techniques of either scope, are you? Hell, I'm not privy to the marketing techniques of either company.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Take the parallax for example, you can practically get a range with it on the S&B, it's that dead nuts on and repeatable, but on the PH you have to adjust the parallax if you move your erector up and down. That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy's... </div></div>Seems PH has some QC issues which help prove your case; my parallax doesn’t go out of adjustment when I run the erector to the top and back down to the bottom.
</div></div>

Sarcasm, a good way to be the top internet warrior...

And as to the last part about your scope not going out of parallax, yeah it does. It's a design flaw. You can't argue this point.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sarcasm, a good way to be the top internet warrior...

And as to the last part about your scope not going out of parallax, yeah it does. It's a design flaw. You can't argue this point. </div></div>No sarcasm was intended, and I haven't seen my parallax go fuzzy when I run the erector up to the top and back down. Maybe my vision isn't good enough to pick it up.

My first point was sincere; I'm not much of a sniper or long-range shooter compared to the guys that shoot barrels out. I made the assumption that you are one of those people.

I'm no internet warrior, but I am a proud owner of a PH 5-25.

 

[lizzardking308]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Dial the erector up to the top then check your parallax. I bet you'll see something completely different. I bet you'll see your reticle moving on your target.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I'll do it tomorrow. For my purposes the PH is still waaaay too much scope. I'm going to go up by Effingham when I get my rifle together and try my hand at 1K. Nate shoots up there, and at one time several years back invited me to come shoot. I have a couple of good coaches who will help me along. I traded the S&B for something I do need, a top-flight set of Zeiss Binos. I hunt a lot, but don't have a good set of binos. Spend a whole lot more time behind the binos than a scope when you hunt.

 

[lizzardking308]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Yeah, try it, you'll see what I'm talking about. I sent ya a PM...

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

Hiders,

Due to overwhelming demand and limited supply, our ordering of 5-25x56 is closed for 2009. We still are putting the final touches on our last PO and 3-15 will be available but in very limited quantities at 2009 pricing. If we can't take care of you no money will be charged or if you sent money in, it will be refunded. I think most of you will be taken care but there comes a time that we have to close the door.

Thank you kindly for your support and understanding on this.

Scott

 

[Halvis]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

Due to overwhelming demand and limited supply, our ordering of 5-25x56 is closed for 2009. We still are putting the final touches on our last PO and 3-15 will be available but in very limited quantities at 2009 pricing. If we can't take care of you no money will be charged or if you sent money in, it will be refunded. I think most of you will be taken care but there comes a time that we have to close the door.

Thank you kindly for your support and understanding on this.

Scott </div></div>

Amen brother!

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

FWIW, LO 2010 Hide pricing on the Premiers is available now, via PM

Scott

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

F*ck it, I'm keeping mine. Had a long chat with Scott about all the rumors and flaws. Basically, very few people have actually expressed real issues with theirs and the majority of posts on this thread have been 'glad I got mine when I did'. If it all turns out to be true then oh well, but I bought from Scott, his reputation is solid and if I'm going to listen to someone then it'll be him.

No disrespect to those who've told me otherwise, I appreciate the heads up but I've made the choice now.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I took my PH 3-15X50 outside and from a prone position tested the parallax while moving the elevation from my zero up a full two turns (on a 27 mRad model). I had the scope on full magnification and was looking at a slope 800 yards away and a house 1200 yards away (the longer distance requiring turning the parallax knob all the way out). At both distances I ran the elevation up and down several times and did not see the reticle moving. I had to purposely turn the parallax knob to get that to happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I couldn't duplicate the issue.

 

[Turk]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

The Premier scope is what it is! I wanted to take the time to thank Scott for being in the forefront to make it affordable to us regardless of how we feel about the company or it's product!

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Premier scope is what it is! I wanted to take the time to thank Scott for being in the forefront to make it affordable to us regardless of how we feel about the company or it's product! </div></div>

Hear hear!

 

[Brasscow]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I bought a set a couple weeks ago and I'm very happy with them. Only reason I bothered switching from NF is because I had an NPR-1 reticle and MOA knobs and wanted to move to MIL/MIL. NF wanted like $550 to change the knobs/reticle and I decided to look elsewhere for a set of 3-15 and 5-25 with FFP that would be near identical in operation (one for .50 and one for .308). I've found that now and I'm very happy with them. Now I've got a NF 5.5-22x56 w/zero stops collecting dust.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I had already started saving up for a PH, but I guess that that probably won't happen now. They'll be out of the range that I'm willing to spend. I thought that they were a beautiful scope, with wonderful features, but I'm gonna just live with a NF or Razor now. It's too bad, because I had already made up my mind, but that's how it goes. I've seen a similar trend on lots of people. Nobody regrets buy a PH for what it USED to cost (and they'd do it again), lots of people would rather just buy a S&B for what they will soon cost, and everybody that was considering (or dreaming) of a PH at what they used to cost will now go with NF or a Razor. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me for them to change their customer base this way, but I guess I hope that it works out for them. I'm not complaing, because I have faith in the free market, just slightly disappointed to see this change come about after I had my heart set on one.

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

What do you think the S&B will <span style="font-style: italic">soon</span> cost?

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

For everyone complaining about price and now not being able to get your dream scope, or whatever, it's not like there's not a vibrant used market for PH scopes. They do have a lifetime warranty.

 

[Addicted]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I bought another one a couple days ago. Also, you people complaining are really crying over not much money. If you would buy one at the price before the increase, then I think you will be ok with the new price. It isn't that dramatic for something you were already gonna spend over 2k on. Ask Scott about the new price, and I think you will come back away from the ledge.

 

[bweidmer]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I've been running the PH 3-15 for about four months now and I am completely happy with it. Superb glass! No issues with mushy clicks or parallax to date. I love the tool-less rezero feature and the Gen IIXR is top notch. I do wish it had some type of marked calibrations on the parallax knob and I miss the top notch EREK elevation knob--great simple knob.

Coming from a background with US Optics, Leupolds, Night Force, and Nikon Tacticals, I've had in the past, the PH has been a great purchase for me.

 

[CS95]

Re: Get your Premier Heritage NOW......

I think what a lot of are not realizing is that Liberty Optics new price is still going to be less than what a lot of people already paid for these scopes from other companies and directly from premier. The new price is still $300-$800 less than what you will pay for a S&B ,depending where you get it and the S&B is definetly NOT $300-$800 better than the premier. I have owned both and just last week compared my 5-25 premier to the S&B 5-25 and their is not much difference. A couple of things I noticed with them side by side was that the S&B was a little more finicky on close range focusing and that the S&B seemed to have a little more magnification when both were turned all the way up. All in all I would take the premier since I got it for $1000 less than what I would of had to pay for another S&B. If they were the same price and had both been around for the same amount of time I would go with the Premier(made in the USA).

Some have shown concern about what would happen if Premier goes
out of business. I dont think we have to worry about that. Even if they quit making scopes I would think they will still cover the warranties. Afterall they have been around for many decades and will most likely be around for more.