Rifle Scopes Glassaholic's History of Reviews

[Glassaholic]

At the risk of sounding a bit self-aggrandizing I have been asked by more than a few Hide members over the years to let them know where they can go to read other reviews I have posted, I suppose some may be genuine while others are simply looking for a good read to help put them to sleep at night. It's quite possible I missed a few reviews here and there but this is what I came up with in my search, I tried to order them somewhat chronologically so if you start at the top and work your way down you hopefully see an improvement in my review methodology as well as my communication skills. I have tried different rating systems over the years and all have come up short and have led some to misunderstandings so I'm trying not so much to do "ratings" but provide thoughts and opinions while sharing where my bias leads. I do have a methodology for testing attributes of a scope and I provide a numerical value based on what I see and provide that as a gauge; however, these values are based on the conditions of that day and the specific scope and setup so should not be taken as a hard-fast rule.

My goal with this thread is to track it and update it, I've been providing reviews on the Hide for a decade now which seems so long yet feels so short. I'm not getting any younger and the reviews take an enormous amount of prep work and time without any monetary benefit so I will likely be slowing down somewhat, I suppose I could have been one of those "YouTuber's" but I don't like the sound of my own voice and for reasons revealed in 2020 and since there has been a huge anti-2A shift in the USA which has shut down the sites and voices of many, so for the most part I have remained relatively anonymous (a few years ago I changed my username for this reason), but whether it's old age or stubbornness I'm beginning to not care so much so maybe at some point I may try to venture out into the vast "aether"net. At the time of this post I am not sponsored or paid by anyone, I do have some relationships with higher ups at a few sport optics companies but outside of that I get nothing but the satisfaction of knowing I'm helping a few of you who are in the market for a scope but are unable to get your hands on them personally. If you appreciate the work I've done and know anyone within the industry who may benefit from "honest" reviews of sport optics feel free to PM me.

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OTHER STUFF

Load Development Targets - feedback wanted

Wasn't sure which forum was the best to post this so thought I'd start here since it is related to reloading (load development). I've visited a lot of websites and grabbed a lot of nice "free" targets but none of them really gave me what I wanted for load development work so I decided to design...

www.snipershide.com

A Tale of Two AR's (AR-10 and AR-15 Build Projects)

Here is the final product of my AR-10 and AR-15 projects, if you’d like to know more about how I got here, read on below the pictures and ensuing posts. A few years ago, I created a thread called “Journey to my lightweight AR-10 build” or something to that effect; unfortunately, this post...

www.snipershide.com

PREVIOUS REVIEWS (ordered by date from oldest (top) to newest (bottom))

Tale of two Stocks: Manners EH1 and JAE-700

A little over a year ago I decided to get into “Tactical Long Range Rifles” (actually I was forced to from reading all the SH threads!) and found a great deal on a Surgeon/Bartlein barreled action so I decided to purchase it. I didn’t want to go through all the rigmarole of bedding a stock and...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Middle Weight Low Light Tactical Scope Evaluation Part II

So glad to be off Scout and back on the "old" Hide The Scopes – this year Minox ZP5 5-25x56 Vortex AMG 6-24x50 Schmidt & Bender PM II Ultra Short 5-20x50 Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR II-i 3.5-21x50 The Scopes – last year Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-20x50 Kahles Gen III K624i 6-24x56 March F...

www.snipershide.com

Review of Vortex Fury HD vs. Nikon Laserforce ED LRF Binoculars

One of these days I might actually write a blog, but for now I'm hoping to benefit the Hide by providing these reviews. For those of you who've read my stuff before, I am not a professional reviewer, I'm just an aficionado who loves to shoot and enjoys good gear and especially good glass...

www.snipershide.com

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2354 - (Tract Toric 4-20x50 review)

http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2296 - (Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 review)

Rifle Scopes - Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 - Initial Thoughts

Backstory When the Nightforce NX8 long range scopes were announced I raised an eyebrow. Over the years I’ve had or used many different long-range scopes from the budget category all the way into alpha class, but in all that time I have never owned a Nightforce and the reason is because they...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - ZCO ZC420 v Kahles K318i v Schmidt Ultra Shorts v Minox ZP5

Three scopes walk into a bar, the first is a ZCO, the second a Kahles and the third a Schmidt… and so the joke goes, but in reality, it was 6 scopes, and Minox joined the party as well and the punchline of the joke is… well read on and we’ll get there. Right before SHOT 2018 I was thrilled to...

www.snipershide.com

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2829 - (March 5-42x56 vs Schmidt 5-45x56)

Rifle Scopes - March 4.5-28x52 High Master Review and Comparison to Tangent Theta 5-25x56

March 4.5-28x52 High Master Review and Comparison to Tangent Theta 5-25x56 If I told you that you could have the benefits of a 4-20 and a 5-25 scope all in one scope would you be interested? Of course, companies like Hensoldt, Schmidt and March have been trying to solve this issue with...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Vortex Razor HD LHT FFP 4.5-22x50 Review and Comparison to Bushnell ET LRHSi 4.5-18x44

The 21.7 oz Vortex Razor HD LHT FFP 4.5-22x50 represents the best crossover design we’ve seen to date if saving weight is your primary goal. - Glassaholic from Snipers Hide on 08/08/2021 What is a Crossover Scope For years we have had a plethora of scopes to choose from that fit certain...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - LPVO Evaluation Vortex Gen III 1-10 - March Shorty 1-10 - ATI SAI 6 1-6

A crashed hard drive and another review has caused me to be delayed in providing more information on the 3 LPVO's that I had in hand last April. In December I ordered the Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10x24 in MOA BDC and after what seemed like forever it finally arrived in April. I bought my DT MDRx...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Alpha Class Long Range Scope Review - TT, ZCO, Schmidt, March, Vortex

For those who've known this has been coming, thank you for your patience, it is finally here, hope you all enjoy! Tangent Theta 5-25x56, ZCO 5-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 3-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56, Vortex Razor G3 6-36x56, March G2 5-40x56, March 4.5-28x52 and Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56 It...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts Back in 2019 I did a review of the newly released Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 scope and it was not a very favorable review as the scope suffered from some of the worst edge distortion I have...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - March FFP 1.5-15x42 MPVO Review and Comparison (w/ Nightforce and Athlon)

Late last year March announced the coming of a brand new scope to the sport optics community, a scope that quite frankly many people were asking for, they wanted a MPVO that could rival the functionality of the 10x erector LPVO’s but offer a high magnification point usable for crossover and...

www.snipershide.com

Vortex Impact 4000 GB First Impressions

About a dozen of you beat me to it this morning in what may be one of the most highly anticipated pieces of kit in a while now. Many have struggled to make the SilencerCO Radius work (and many quite successfully too I should add) but with the rise of NV popularity amongst the shooting community...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56 Review and comparison with NF ATACR 4-16x42, S&B US 3-20x50 and March 4.5-28x52

HISTORY OF STEINER From wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steiner-Optik): The company was founded in 1947 by Karl Steiner, and the first product of the company was the Steinette camera. In 1955, the company changed focus to production of binoculars. In 1965, Steiner was awarded a contract with...

www.snipershide.com

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=3176 - (Alpha Class High Magnification 6-36/7-35 FFP Scope Review), need to writeup a Snipers Hide summary...

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UPCOMING REVIEWS

• Battle of the LOW 6-36's - Vortex RG3, Element Theos (yes, they come in black now) and Zeiss LRP S3
• Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 (delayed)
• Element Nexus Gen2 4-25x50 vs Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 vs Vortex LHT 4.5-22x50?
• Non-US Schmidt & Bender 6-36x56 vs TT 7-35x56 vs ZCO 8-40 (dependent on when I can acquire a non-US Schmidt)
• The sample variance question: Look at getting multiple copies of Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50, Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56, Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44 and Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22x50. (If you have recommendations on other optics I would be open to that, but these seem to get the most comments about different experiences between different samples).

 

[DIBBS]

@Glassaholic thank you for your reviews.

 

[rnlzkbrs]

@Glassaholic I appreciate your hard work. I've got my March 5-42x56 after reading your review.

 

[SubGun]

Excellent reviews!!! Thank you for consolidating in one post.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I think this warrants a sticky!

 

[RHutch]

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UPCOMING REVIEWS

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts

March FFP 1.5-15x42 vs ???? - Still looking for an ATACR 4-16x42 that someone might be willing to loan me for a few weeks (may end up just buying one but funds are tight with taxes soon approaching)

I’ve got a 4-16x42 without a home at the moment I’d happily loan for a review IF you send me the March to play with for a couple weeks after your review is complete. Think on it

 

[TheHorta]

Thank you for your cervix.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you for your cervix.

Ummm... not quite sure how to take this

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Nice work!

 

[db2000]

Nice work

 

[Center Mass]

I always enjoy reading you reviews, thank you!

 

[Nik H]

Always enjoy your reviews

 

[Convex]

The BEST advice given by anybody is given w/o expecting anything in return.

What should come back in your direction from anybody who used it is "thanks".


"Thanks".

 

[Ronws]

Thank you for your reviews.

However, if you think your writing is dry enough or technical enough to cure insomnia, I would put one of my essays up against yours.

Specifically, I call it my epic GFCI essay. I touch about some statistical mechanics and brief mention of quantum mechanics to explain where there will always be problems with 240 volt GFCI breakers and single phase pumps with variable speed drives. (Technically, variable speed is a misnomer, it's actually 4 available speeds.)

I have sent it to builders who want to know why the breaker is tripping and I warn them, "read this only if you cannot get to sleep."

 

[Convex]

That's Bcuz U connected the Hingus to the Framis B4 U pulled out the Dookey Stick.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you for your reviews.

However, if you think your writing is dry enough or technical enough to cure insomnia, I would put one of my essays up against yours.

Specifically, I call it my epic GFCI essay. I touch about some statistical mechanics and brief mention of quantum mechanics to explain where there will always be problems with 240 volt GFCI breakers and single phase pumps with variable speed drives. (Technically, variable speed is a misnomer, it's actually 4 available speeds.)

I have sent it to builders who want to know why the breaker is tripping and I warn them, "read this only if you cannot get to sleep."

Good point, just that paragraph put me to sleep

 

[Ronws]

Good point, just that paragraph put me to sleep

I am the winner and still champion! Dubious honor, I know. But I take what I can get.

 

[Convex]

Well, the point is you've helped folks go to sleep w/more money in their pockets Bcuz they were able to make informed choices.

Next time U decide on a name change, think about "The Illuminator."

"GFCI".... LOL!!!!

A lot of folks made it to this world, BCUZ of the lights going out.


In fact, from the statistics I've read, the "party" starts when there's a power outage.

 

[Ronws]

Well, the point is you've helped folks go to sleep w/more money in their pockets Bcuz they were able to make informed choices.

Next time U decide on a name change, think about "The Illuminator."

"GFCI".... LOL!!!!

A lot of folks made it to this world, BCUZ of the lights going out.


In fact, from the statistics I've read, the "party" starts when there's a power outage.

If you ever want to read it, let me know. It works as good as Ambien.

 

[Convex]

LOL!!!

 

[mp0311]

At the risk of sounding a bit self-aggrandizing I have been asked by more than a few Hide members over the years to let them know where they can go to read other reviews I have posted, I suppose some may be genuine while others are simply looking for a good read to help put them to sleep at night. It's quite possible I missed a few reviews here and there but this is what I came up with in my search, I tried to order them somewhat chronologically so if you start at the top and work your way down you hopefully see an improvement in my review methodology as well as my communication skills. I have tried different rating systems over the years and all have come up short and have led some to misunderstandings so I'm trying not so much to do "ratings" but provide thoughts and opinions while sharing where my bias leads. I do have a methodology for testing attributes of a scope and I provide a numerical value based on what I see and provide that as a gauge; however, these values are based on the conditions of that day and the specific scope and setup so should not be taken as a hard-fast rule.

My goal with this thread is to track it and update it, I've been providing reviews on the Hide for a decade now which seems so long yet feels so short. I'm not getting any younger and the reviews take an enormous amount of prep work and time without any monetary benefit so I will likely be slowing down somewhat, I suppose I could have been one of those "YouTuber's" but I don't like the sound of my own voice and for reasons revealed in 2020 and since there has been a huge anti-2A shift in the USA which has shut down the sites and voices of many, so for the most part I have remained relatively anonymous (a few years ago I changed my username for this reason), but whether it's old age or stubbornness I'm beginning to not care so much so maybe at some point I may try to venture out into the vast "aether"net. At the time of this post I am not sponsored or paid by anyone, I do have some relationships with higher ups at a few sport optics companies but outside of that I get nothing but the satisfaction of knowing I'm helping a few of you who are in the market for a scope but are unable to get your hands on them personally. If you appreciate the work I've done and know anyone within the industry who may benefit from "honest" reviews of sport optics feel free to PM me.

---

PREVIOUS REVIEWS

Tale of two Stocks: Manners EH1 and JAE-700

A little over a year ago I decided to get into “Tactical Long Range Rifles” (actually I was forced to from reading all the SH threads!) and found a great deal on a Surgeon/Bartlein barreled action so I decided to purchase it. I didn’t want to go through all the rigmarole of bedding a stock and...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Middle Weight Low Light Tactical Scope Evaluation Part II

So glad to be off Scout and back on the "old" Hide The Scopes – this year Minox ZP5 5-25x56 Vortex AMG 6-24x50 Schmidt & Bender PM II Ultra Short 5-20x50 Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR II-i 3.5-21x50 The Scopes – last year Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-20x50 Kahles Gen III K624i 6-24x56 March F...

www.snipershide.com

Review of Vortex Fury HD vs. Nikon Laserforce ED LRF Binoculars

One of these days I might actually write a blog, but for now I'm hoping to benefit the Hide by providing these reviews. For those of you who've read my stuff before, I am not a professional reviewer, I'm just an aficionado who loves to shoot and enjoys good gear and especially good glass...

www.snipershide.com

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2354 - (Tract Toric 4-20x50 review)

http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2296 - (Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 review)

Rifle Scopes - Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 - Initial Thoughts

Backstory When the Nightforce NX8 long range scopes were announced I raised an eyebrow. Over the years I’ve had or used many different long-range scopes from the budget category all the way into alpha class, but in all that time I have never owned a Nightforce and the reason is because they...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - ZCO ZC420 v Kahles K318i v Schmidt Ultra Shorts v Minox ZP5

Three scopes walk into a bar, the first is a ZCO, the second a Kahles and the third a Schmidt… and so the joke goes, but in reality, it was 6 scopes, and Minox joined the party as well and the punchline of the joke is… well read on and we’ll get there. Right before SHOT 2018 I was thrilled to...

www.snipershide.com

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2829 - (March 5-42x56 vs Schmidt 5-45x56)

Rifle Scopes - March 4.5-28x52 High Master Review and Comparison to Tangent Theta 5-25x56

March 4.5-28x52 High Master Review and Comparison to Tangent Theta 5-25x56 If I told you that you could have the benefits of a 4-20 and a 5-25 scope all in one scope would you be interested? Of course, companies like Hensoldt, Schmidt and March have been trying to solve this issue with...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Vortex Razor HD LHT FFP 4.5-22x50 Review and Comparison to Bushnell ET LRHSi 4.5-18x44

The 21.7 oz Vortex Razor HD LHT FFP 4.5-22x50 represents the best crossover design we’ve seen to date if saving weight is your primary goal. - Glassaholic from Snipers Hide on 08/08/2021 What is a Crossover Scope For years we have had a plethora of scopes to choose from that fit certain...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - LPVO Evaluation Vortex Gen III 1-10 - March Shorty 1-10 - ATI SAI 6 1-6

A crashed hard drive and another review has caused me to be delayed in providing more information on the 3 LPVO's that I had in hand last April. In December I ordered the Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10x24 in MOA BDC and after what seemed like forever it finally arrived in April. I bought my DT MDRx...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Alpha Class Long Range Scope Review - TT, ZCO, Schmidt, March, Vortex

For those who've known this has been coming, thank you for your patience, it is finally here, hope you all enjoy! Tangent Theta 5-25x56, ZCO 5-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 3-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56, Vortex Razor G3 6-36x56, March G2 5-40x56, March 4.5-28x52 and Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56 It...

www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 vs March 3-24x52 vs Schmidt 3-27x56 - battle of midrange magnification juggernauts Back in 2019 I did a review of the newly released Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 scope and it was not a very favorable review as the scope suffered from some of the worst edge distortion I have...

www.snipershide.com

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UPCOMING REVIEWS

March FFP 1.5-15x42 vs Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 and Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 - How does March's latest 10x erector MPVO stack up against the "cheap" Athlon and the venerable ATACR.

Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56 vs Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 vs ? (Not sure yet… maybe Vortex G3 6-36x56 as it’s another know commodity even though it’s a different class of scope). If someone has a Zeiss LRP S5 3.6-18x50 they'd like to loan me I'd be happy to work with you...

Hows the steiner v. nightforce review coming?

 

[Franko]

It's people like you that make the Hide such a great resource. Thank you very much.

 

[canezach]

It's people like you that make the Hide such a great resource. Thank you very much.

Don't tell him that! Do you know how huge his head will get now?!

 

[ELCO82]

I think this warrants a sticky!

I second this

 

[Glassaholic]

Don't tell him that! Do you know how huge his head will get now?!

Just cause I couldn’t get my head past your truck door doesn’t mean I have a huge head, it could mean you have tiny doors

 

[TheOE800]

What is this, a truck for ants?

 

[Convex]

Question is.....

Do U have to bend down when U walk thru a door.

From an article saying looks don't indicate intelligence.

HELL...

If that's the case, what's taking up all that extra space.

 

[adavis1138]

Question is.....

Do U have to bend down when U walk thru a door.

From an article saying looks don't indicate intelligence.

HELL...

If that's the case, what's taking up all that extra space.

That’s a seven head

 

[koshkin]

Good point, just that paragraph put me to sleep

I have been married for almost 20 years now. My wife still does not know what I do for a living. I have made many attempts to explain it to her. She has not yet made it past the 3rd sentence despite dozens of attempts.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

I have been married for almost 20 years now. My wife still does not know what I do for a living. I have made many attempts to explain it to her. She has not yet made it past the 3rd sentence despite dozens of attempts.

ILya

Explaining optics sometimes feels like this

 

[Glassaholic]

Question is.....

Do U have to bend down when U walk thru a door.

From an article saying looks don't indicate intelligence.

HELL...

If that's the case, what's taking up all that extra space.

I've asked @canezach not to share my ^^^ headshot with others, but apparently he couldn't resist

 

[Ronws]

Explaining optics sometimes feels like this

I am stealing that.

 

[koshkin]

Explaining optics sometimes feels like this

Once I recall watching one semi-professional boxer try to explain to another semi-professional boxer that you can write a check and make it out to "cash".

 

[Glassaholic]

Once I recall watching one semi-professional boxer try to explain to another semi-professional boxer that you can write a check and make it out to "cash".

He didn’t try to bite off his ear after that did he?

 

[koshkin]

He didn’t try to bite off his ear after that did he?

It damn near came to blows.

 

[Convex]

I have been married for almost 20 years now. My wife still does not know what I do for a living. I have made many attempts to explain it to her. She has not yet made it past the 3rd sentence despite dozens of attempts.

ILya

As a young man Mom sat me down just before I got married and says...

Just like we're talking now, you can "bet your life" momma has sat down her daughter/" the bride to be" and told her a thousand times...

"spend his, bank yours"...

I've told some young guys that, and w/an "astonished look" they say they don't belive it.

I tell 'em "if your lucky enough to stay happily married, consider yourself lucky enough to have a wife that stayed in your corner, if you end getting a divorce you're gonna know what I'm talking about."

When I'm feeling proud of myself for doing something and I try to show/ explain it to my wife, she brings me "down to earth" w/"ya ya ya...... I need you to jump in the car and go to the store."

Understand that when your check goes into direct deposit, the amount of that has her ABSOLUTE attention.

 

[koshkin]

As a young man Mom sat me down just before I got married and says...

Just like we're talking now, you can "bet your life" momma has sat down her daughter/" the bride to be" and told her a thousand times...

"spend his, bank yours"...

I've told some young guys that, and w/an "astonished look" they say they don't belive it.

I tell 'em "if your lucky enough to stay happily married, consider yourself lucky enough to have a wife that stayed in your corner, if you end getting a divorce you're gonna know what I'm talking about."

When I'm feeling proud of myself for doing something and I try to show/ explain it to my wife, she brings me "down to earth" w/"ya ya ya...... I need you to jump in the car and go to the store."

Understand that when your check goes into direct deposit, the amount of that has her ABSOLUTE attention.

Funny thing is that she is completely uninvolved with any of that. Both of our paychecks go into the same account that she never looks at.

ILya

 

[Convex]

Then you are a VERY lucky man!!!!!

 

[koshkin]

Then you are a VERY lucky man!!!!!

I most certainly am and I absolutely do not deserve her.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

Finally got back to the range today to do some long distance testing and wrap of my review of the March 1.5-15x42 and the NF ATACR 4-16x42 - two very different scopes but the ATACR serves as the baseline which many are familiar with.

 

[Huskydriver]

Finally got back to the range today to do some long distance testing and wrap of my review of the March 1.5-15x42 and the NF ATACR 4-16x42 - two very different scopes but the ATACR serves as the baseline which many are familiar with.

View attachment 8193074

So did the Steiner beat the NF or what?

 

[Rob01]

So did the Steiner beat the NF or what?

He said this in the Steiner thread:

“I finally got out to the range today with the T6Xi 3-18x56 and my ATACR 4-16x42. The ATACR was a slightly better overall experience but the T6Xi not far behind and ahead in some categories like monstrous FOV compared to ATACR.”

 

[farwest]

Where would the Zeiss LRP S3 4x25x50 fit in comparing these two scopes considering street prices?

 

[pflum22]

Have you by chance got your hands on a Zeiss S5 LRP yet?

 

[Glassaholic]

Have you by chance got your hands on a Zeiss S5 LRP yet?

No I have not. There are too many good 5-25 units on the market for the Zeiss to interest me that much and the 3.5-18x50 turrets are way too large for a crossover style scope (for me). I am curious to see the glass, but right now these issues don't inspire me enough to spend my money on one at this time.

 

[pflum22]

No I have not. There are too many good 5-25 units on the market for the Zeiss to interest me that much and the 3.5-18x50 turrets are way too large for a crossover style scope (for me). I am curious to see the glass, but right now these issues don't inspire me enough to spend my money on one at this time.

Understandable. If you just got a .300wm for mostly hunting would you put a SB 3-20, ZCO 4-20, Kahles 3-18, Atacr 4-20, or something else on it

 

[R_A_W]

Understandable. If you just got a .300wm for mostly hunting would you put a SB 3-20, ZCO 4-20, Kahles 3-18, Atacr 4-20, or something else on it

The 7-35 ATACR is only ~4 ounces heavier than the 4-20 & you get a spotting scope attached to your rifle... That's really the only use for 35x and it is a big scope, however.

Might as well mention the ZCO 527 is ~3 ounces heavier than the 420 & the Kahles 318i and 624i are essentially the same weight.

 

[pflum22]

The 7-35 ATACR is only ~4 ounces heavier than the 4-20 & you get a spotting scope attached to your rifle... That's really the only use for 35x and it is a big scope, however.

Might as well mention the ZCO 527 is ~3 ounces heavier than the 420 & the Kahles 318i and 624i are essentially the same weight.

I feel like more magnification isn't always the answer though because of mirage and fov. Am I right or wrong

 

[R_A_W]

No, you're definitely correct.

I have a 7-35 ATACR & I typically use 16-20x, particularly when there is mirage. I took it out to 1,336 yards two weekends ago & stayed @ 18x the whole time & didn't think twice about it... I rarely shoot @ 25x. Everything above 25x is for shooting paper <200yd & seeing the groups without walking to check the target.

The only time I'd like to have a lot of magnification on a hunting rifle is if I was trying to take the largest ram out of pack of Auodad or biggest cow from elk herd. You'd most likely be shooting long range & need some magnification to see which is the largest ram or cow while you're glassing them. Then I'd put up with the extra 4oz.

eta: for what it's worth, the 5-25x ATACR has the worst glass of the entire ATACR line, so stay away from that one.

 

[Glassaholic]

Understandable. If you just got a .300wm for mostly hunting would you put a SB 3-20, ZCO 4-20, Kahles 3-18, Atacr 4-20, or something else on it

This is difficult to answer because I would make decisions based on what I need for a particular application - does that make it the best option or a choice someone else makes for a different scope any less viable, certainly not. If you look at my review of Ultra Shorts (link in the original post) I review the Schmidt 3-20, ZCO 4-20 and Kahles 3.5-18, IMO the ZCO was the victor for clear optical and mechanical performance but the Schmidt we had at the time was with the old DT27 (14 mrad per rev) which were not my favorite but clearly better than the DT35 - the new DTII+ turrets are a considerable step above everything else on the market except for TT and new March Shuriken lock turrets. So let me give a brief summary of each scope so you can make a decision:

1. Schmidt & Bender Ultra Short 3-20x50: I would only get the DTII+ turrets today, with those turrets the Schmidt is the same weight as the ZCO, but offers wider magnification range and wider FOV throughout the range. The image does fall off a bit above 18x, but if you need 3x on the bottom I have no issue recommending this scope.
2. ZCO 4-20x50: I still think this is the best ultra short on the market. FOV is a little tighter than I'd prefer but not horrible, the experience behind the scope is out of this world. I do not like ZCO's tree reticles as I feel they are too thick for crossover use, but the MPCT1 is really good if you don't need a tree.
3. Kahles 3.5-18x50: Shortest scope of the bunch but very limited FOV (the ZCO has greater FOV at 4x than the Kahles at 3.5x). SKMR3 reticle too thick for crossover use IMO so would choose MSR. Excellent IQ throughout mag range
4. Nightforce ATACR 4-20x50: Why is NF still making scopes that tunnel in 2020? Must have been to meet some .mil requirements. Either way, the 4-20 has limited FOV at the bottom, in comparison the Schmidt Ultra Short 5-20 has almost the same FOV as the NF (at 5x vs 4x) but is a lighter/shorter scope. ATACR 4-20 struggles against the ZCO until 20x FOV wise. I've never seen this scope personally for the very reasons mentioned above, but outside of these issues it likely is a very good design.

Hopefully this gives you enough information to make a decision. You asked if there were any other scopes I'd consider for a crossover:

• The Tangent Theta TT315M (Marksman or 315H for Hunter) 3-15x50: regarded as some of the best glass in the industry and well deserved, each TT exudes quality optically and mechanically.
• The Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56: is impressive for the price and offers a wide FOV with very forgiving eyebox. 56mm objective should be a low light powerhouse; however, early testing shows this may not be as good as some may hope, I currently need to do further tests with additional benchmark scopes to compare.
• March 3-24x52 with FML-TR1H reticle: Before the Vortex LHT came out the March was highly sought after in the crossover realm simply because it tips the scales at a mere 24 oz, but optically it suffers from narrow FOV and IQ degrades above 18x quite a bit. Finicky eyebox is also something that some struggle with especially if you are in awkward shooting positions.
• Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50: This used to be a scope I would not recommend, but later copies have proven to improve on the IQ shortcomings of the first release units. Outside of a somewhat finicky eyebox, DOF and parallax this scope offers a lot but don't expect turrets like the ATACR series.
• Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22x50: As mentioned above, I would be remiss to forget the 22 oz LHT, the lightest FFP long range scope available. Turrets are similar to NF NX8, that is they are somewhat meh, but get the job done. If you need light weight there is nothing lighter available. A mag range that maybe suits western hunters or NRL Hunter competitors more than it would eastern hunting or if you plan to go into the thick to flush out dear/elk.
• The new Zeiss LRP S5 3.6-18x50 would be higher on my list if it had a more friendly crossover style reticle and didn't have monstrously tall turrets

This is by no means an exhaustive or conclusive list, some honorable mentions are the Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50, the Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 and a host of "budget" optics that I left out because it seems you are focused on really good glass. All this information is given without knowing the details of what you want this scope for other than "mostly hunting" but I don't know what you hunt, where you hunt, how far you intend to take a shot, how close you intend to take a shot, will you shoot a lot of low light or mostly daytime, etc. There are a host of questions to ask that could narrow this list down quite a bit.