Go-To Mods for reliable AR10 Platform?

[shields shtr]

I have always been a bolt gun guy, but have started dabbling in the AR game the last year or so. I mainly use them for plinking, and the occasional coyote hunt or hog hunt. I own a Daniel Defense AR15, and I bought a "budget" Diamondback AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor a few months back. So far, the Daniel Defense has been flawless, it shoots pretty much any ammo I put through it. The 6.5....not so much. When I first started shooting the gun (I do shoot with a suppressor) it wouldn't cycle properly. After doing some research, I bought an adjustable gas block and that seemed to fix the problem. After about 50 more rounds down the tube the latest issue is that the bolt will stick and not cycle. I have to reef back on the charging handle pretty hard to get the case out, and in one instance I had to take the gun apart and do the ol push/pull with a rod and apply a lever to the bolt to get the case out. I am shooting factory Hornady ammo, it is the "Outfitter Grade" ammo with 120 GMX bullets.

I have shot probably a total of 200 rounds through the gun, and it just recently started "sticking" the case. I am not sure if this is an ammo issue, fouling issue, or what. I was pretty hesitant to get one of the large frame ARs, in about every long range competition I have shot the guy with the Semi-Auto almost always has some type of issue with it. Seems like some folks on this forum shoot them with no problems.

So, my question is this: What type of mods would you recommend to ensure reliable cycling and overall operation? I don't have a problem spending the money on something (maybe I should have done this first) to get a reliable rifle. Nothing pisses me off more than my rifle not going bang when I want it too. I was thinking of the JP VMOS bolt carrier and Silent Captured spring, but would be open to other ideas as well. Any and all info is appreciated.

 

[theLBC]

are you running it wet? i'm guessing it runs dirty.

 

[shields shtr]

Forgive my ignorance...wet? Like actual moisture in the gun wet, or some type of tactical wet I don't know about?

 

[loveha]

Over pressure? What does the brass look like? Ejector swipes, loose primers, etc. Any chance for moisture in the chamber?

I had a similar issue with my first gen Sig 716 as far as cases sticking/not extracting. Swelled cases, blown/loose primers. I also get bad ejector swipes on some brass. I also shoot suppressed, and was shooting Aguila FMJ stuff (308 and 7.62). Two rounds I had to mortar out, and a third that deadlined the rifle after I snapped my charging handle. Took a flat headed screwdriver, and a rag to protect the upper with some coaxing to pry it out. I noticed it had what appeared to be moisture in the chamber after the first time it went down, so I'm wondering if I had some bizarre over pressure situation. I had taken my rifle from a cool basement to 80 degree weather with cool ammo. Was thinking the suppressor was doing some strange back pressure atmospheric shit creating condensation?

Bore scope showed nothing wrong as far as a carbon ring or defect. So I scrubbed it clean.
After getting a new charging handle and firing pin retaining pin, I loaded a Magpul D50 with an assortment of ammo and shot it all in a steady string of fire with not a single issue. But the weather was much cooler. No moisture in the chamber.

(If anybody has any other hypothesis on my issue, you're welcome to DM me. Don't want to hijack the thread.)

To answer your question, from TheLBC. A wet bolt, maybe more than normal.

 

[theLBC]

Forgive my ignorance...wet? Like actual moisture in the gun wet, or some type of tactical wet I don't know about?

slang others use for well lubricated.

 

[shields shtr]

Gotcha, I use Frog lube, but I wouldn't say I run it "wet". I apply some and wipe most of it off so there is a little film left on there. I did examine my brass, no swipes or loose primers. Case mouths are in good shape. After I got my adjustable gas block I adjusted the clicks until I got a nice 3-4 O'Clock ejection pattern on my brass. One thing I did notice now that I think about it, is that the gas block adjustment was pretty finicky. One click in either direction and I couldn't get my bolt to lock back, but once I found the sweet spot I was able to run through probably 30-40 rounds with really smooth feeding and no issues.

 

[theLBC]

Gotcha, I use Frog lube, but I wouldn't say I run it "wet". I apply some and wipe most of it off so there is a little film left on there. I did examine my brass, no swipes or loose primers. Case mouths are in good shape. After I got my adjustable gas block I adjusted the clicks until I got a nice 3-4 O'Clock ejection pattern on my brass. One thing I did notice now that I think about it, is that the gas block adjustment was pretty finicky. One click in either direction and I couldn't get my bolt to lock back, but once I found the sweet spot I was able to run through probably 30-40 rounds with really smooth feeding and no issues.

can't speak for myself as i run a piston gun, but from what i read in ar-10 threads, folks have more luck running them "dripping wet" so to speak.
this thread is about something else (jamming rounds into the rifling) but they talk about it.

AR-10 Advice / recommendations

Hi there!! About 2 years ago I dropped around 4K on a custom made 18” 308 AR-10. While the gun has an awesome barrel on it and is crazy accurate, I have had the worst time getting it function reliable. From failure to feeds to failure to ejects to bullets getting stuck in what seems to be a...

www.snipershide.com

 

[theLBC]

I dont know if it is a “mod” but when I pull the trigger I always say “pew”. I have not had one issue or malfunction since and always at least shoot .25moa groups.

My buddy who says im crazy is always more than .25moa.

hahaha, i always yell HIT just before i shoot, because i always try to be optimistic.

 

[shields shtr]

dont know if it is a “mod” but when I pull the trigger I always say “pew”

That may have been it. I had my vowels all screwed up. When I shoot my gas guns I am usually all "POW, POW, POW".

I know that is more 60 and 70s Batman, and not worthy of my suppressor. And now that I know what wet is I guess I will try lubing the shit out of it with some non frog lube stuff and see what happens. Thanks for the link to the thread @LBC, some good info in there.

 

[YammyMonkey]

The frog lube has a well documented history of gumming up. I would start by stripping all that out of the gun, getting it really clean, and using something like Slip 2000 for lube.

If that doesn't fix it, I would send it back to the manufacturer. Large frame ARs are typically more finicky & have more proprietary parts than AR15s. Trying to mix & match parts will likely end up being a frustrating, expensive experience.

 

[Animal357]

Diamondback is not budget, its bottom tier. That's your real problem

 

[shields shtr]

Diamondback is not budget, its bottom tier. That's your real problem

I was afraid of that when I bought it. You would think I would have learned that at this point in my life, seems like when I am dipping my toe in I am optimistic I might get away with a budget option and I always gravitate back to higher quality models.

 

[db2000]

Diamondback is not budget, its bottom tier. That's your real problem

^^^this
Also the reason your DD runs flawlessly..just the opposite, well and it’s .223

 

[Animal357]

I was afraid of that when I bought it. You would think I would have learned that at this point in my life, seems like when I am dipping my toe in I am optimistic I might get away with a budget option and I always gravitate back to higher quality models.

You get what you pay for.
Buy once, cry once.
Lot's of sayings...

 

[E-Tool]

Sell it and buy a SCAR, the best semi 308s are piston driven.

 

[Tonsofguns]

I had the same issue with my Lmt 308 when I tried to put a non Lmt firing pin, believe it or not. I literally had to hammer the rifle open if I dropped the bolt.
Got the proper firing pin and no issues since

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Yes, A JP scs and VMos bcg can help tune a rifle. You could also try different buffer springs and buffers.

Do you know how far open the adjustable gas block is now?

 

[shields shtr]

Do you know how far open the adjustable gas block is now?

It is a 9 position AGB, and I believe it is 5 "clicks" to the open. When I was playing with it to get the bolt to lock and not shoot my brass forward at about 1 oclock that is the position I landed on with that particular ammo.

t
Yes, A JP scs and VMos bcg can help tune a rifle. You could also try different buffer springs and buffers.

In my non experienced eye, I was thinking I might be able to salvage the gun if I put a decent "engine" so to speak in the "chassis" I have now. That is why I was thinking of the JP system, they seem to get a lot of positive feedback. What I am trying to avoid is going down a rabbit hole of diagnostics and keep buying parts when I could just cut my losses now and buy a nicer rifle. In this platform, I am less concerned with bolt gun type accuracy, and more interested in the gun going bang when I want it to.

I did shoot about 20 rounds through it unsuppressed (painful as I am so used to shooting with a can) and no issues. Although, it seemed to function okay until recently. I will do a thorough cleaning and maybe try some different lubricant.

 

[6.5SH]

Frog Lube is notorious for gumming up when it is cold.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I was afraid of that when I bought it. You would think I would have learned that at this point in my life, seems like when I am dipping my toe in I am optimistic I might get away with a budget option and I always gravitate back to higher quality models.

I have built a few AR-308's and it can be frustrating. There's a lot of variation on parts and they don't all play well together. If you like building a custom gun, then it's not so much of a frustration, but if not, then you might want to just buy a POF piston gun. They make a good rifle at a really good price for what you get. Getting the gas right is a big part of it of course, but I wouldn't use frog lube in it. Clean it up really well so you can sell it and get a better gun or build a better gun. You will always have issues with those bottom tier AR's, and you aren't going to be happy with it.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It's also a fantastic time to unload that gun, so take advantage of it!

 

[drewthebrave]

The frog lube has a well documented history of gumming up. I would start by stripping all that out of the gun, getting it really clean, and using something like Slip 2000 for lube.

If that doesn't fix it, I would send it back to the manufacturer. Large frame ARs are typically more finicky & have more proprietary parts than AR15s. Trying to mix & match parts will likely end up being a frustrating, expensive experience.

Frog Lube is notorious for gumming up when it is cold.

I feel like these comments were overlooked.

Before you do anything else, clean the Frog Lube off of your components, and use a light oil instead. I got some FrogLube cheap years ago, and it works fine when the weather is warm, but it solidifies when it cools down. What's the temperature when you've been experiencing these stoppages?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I feel like these comments were overlooked.

Before you do anything else, clean the Frog Lube off of your components, and use a light oil instead. I got some FrogLube cheap years ago, and it works fine when the weather is warm, but it solidifies when it cools down. What's the temperature when you've been experiencing these stoppages?

The frog lube, as mentioned here and by others is a good point. There's several quality light oils to use.

 

[Ravenworks]

Oil ANY Oil, you need to clean the whole rifle and lightly oil the lower.

 

[shields shtr]

What's the temperature when you've been experiencing these stoppages?

Not very cold for around here this time of year, but still cold by most standards. 20-25 degrees probably. It sure seems weird to me the gun would jam up so bad I have to literally lever the bolt open due to some type of lube, but I will clean it up tonight and see what happens.

I am getting confused on the oiling now, I am hearing "run wet" and also "lightly oil". I will try a couple of different things and see what happens.

 

[TheGerman]

By 'stick and not cycle' do you mean that the bolt literally locks in place like a bolt gun does, or that the bolt runs but doesn't pick up a new round?

If the first, its not unlocking at all and thats all sorts of problems. If the second (more likely), you probably need to play with buffer weights.

The only real maintenance a semi auto needs is a chamber cleaning and lubrication.

 

[LRRPF52]

Gotcha, I use Frog lube, but I wouldn't say I run it "wet". I apply some and wipe most of it off so there is a little film left on there. I did examine my brass, no swipes or loose primers. Case mouths are in good shape. After I got my adjustable gas block I adjusted the clicks until I got a nice 3-4 O'Clock ejection pattern on my brass. One thing I did notice now that I think about it, is that the gas block adjustment was pretty finicky. One click in either direction and I couldn't get my bolt to lock back, but once I found the sweet spot I was able to run through probably 30-40 rounds with really smooth feeding and no issues.

Throw that trash in the garbage.

I saw all these ads about it years back, didn’t think much about it until someone showed up to one of my DM courses with a Noveske lubed with that crap.

Noveske’s normally run like raped apes. This one felt like someone had spilled fine sand into the action, and we were in the dead of winter in the mountains in Utah surrounded by snow, no dirt in sight.

Gun was short-stroking, malfunctioning left and right.

I don’t think that’s your issue though.

Did you say that unfired cartridges don’t extract, or fired cases aren’t extracting?

 

[DocRDS]

You should not have to "mod" a AR-308 (in before the ARmalite nazis!) to run properly. The biggest problems as previously covered are over and under gassing--the adjustable gas block you did can fix those.

The other item is to balance your recoil spring/buffer weight. That helps the gun cycle, but even the worst combo will not cause a stuck bolt.

Stuck bolt? Clean and Lube the **** outta that rifle. As mentioned, don't use frog lube. When in doubt go for the dummy solution and that is CLP (used in the ARmed Forces for a long time). There are better lubes, but before every gamer in town shows up with their special sauce, always have some CLP around as a default. If it moves, hit it with oil/CLP.

Don't forget when you but the suppressor on, you will get a lot more gas so tune down the gas block and your gun will get dirty a lot faster. Still should function for 200+ rounds w/o issue.

Breakfree CLP. Don't AR without it.

Yes Diamondback is not superstar. Should still go bang. I have another "Value" brand DPMS 308. Lube it, Shoot it, Clean it. No cool kid points. 100% functional.

 

[shields shtr]

By 'stick and not cycle' do you mean that the bolt literally locks in place like a bolt gun does,

Yep. It sort of got progressively harder and harder to extract a case.

I have some time this week to do a thorough cleaning and inspection. Will try some CLP and see how things go. Thanks to all for the tips.

 

[Jsp556]

Don’t overthink the lube. Mobil 1 synthetic works and is cheap.

I’m not knocking your rifle, but if you want a reliable large frame semi, Colt, LMT, Armalite, KAC, etc is where you should be looking.

B series Armalites are plentiful and sell in the $1500 range even in this panic price environment.

 

[striped1]

Sell it and buy a SCAR, the best semi 308s are piston driven.

No. This is not the answer. A JP is a much better rifle.

 

[striped1]

Don’t overthink the lube. Mobil 1 synthetic works and is cheap.

I’m not knocking your rifle, but if you want a reliable large frame semi, Colt, LMT, Armalite, KAC, etc is where you should be looking.

B series Armalites are plentiful and sell in the $1500 range even in this panic price environment.

colts are shit.

JP will do all you want accuracy wise

 

[TheGerman]

Yep. It sort of got progressively harder and harder to extract a case.

I have some time this week to do a thorough cleaning and inspection. Will try some CLP and see how things go. Thanks to all for the tips.

Then the first step would be to get EVERYTHING out of the chamber and just use a regular CLP.

Hopefully that fixes it. The easiest fix is if all the frog lube and carbon basically make the fire formed case slightly expand and then get stuck with whatever is in there.

You've never had it rip a rim off?

 

[Jsp556]

colts are shit.

JP will do all you want accuracy wise

Sorry I left your chosen brand off my list. Lol.

I’d buy a Colt large frame over a JP any day of the week. Anything to validate JP being better?

 

[GUNNER10]

I have always been a bolt gun guy, but have started dabbling in the AR game the last year or so. I mainly use them for plinking, and the occasional coyote hunt or hog hunt. I own a Daniel Defense AR15, and I bought a "budget" Diamondback AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor a few months back. So far, the Daniel Defense has been flawless, it shoots pretty much any ammo I put through it. The 6.5....not so much. When I first started shooting the gun (I do shoot with a suppressor) it wouldn't cycle properly. After doing some research, I bought an adjustable gas block and that seemed to fix the problem. After about 50 more rounds down the tube the latest issue is that the bolt will stick and not cycle. I have to reef back on the charging handle pretty hard to get the case out, and in one instance I had to take the gun apart and do the ol push/pull with a rod and apply a lever to the bolt to get the case out. I am shooting factory Hornady ammo, it is the "Outfitter Grade" ammo with 120 GMX bullets.

I have shot probably a total of 200 rounds through the gun, and it just recently started "sticking" the case. I am not sure if this is an ammo issue, fouling issue, or what. I was pretty hesitant to get one of the large frame ARs, in about every long range competition I have shot the guy with the Semi-Auto almost always has some type of issue with it. Seems like some folks on this forum shoot them with no problems.

So, my question is this: What type of mods would you recommend to ensure reliable cycling and overall operation? I don't have a problem spending the money on something (maybe I should have done this first) to get a reliable rifle. Nothing pisses me off more than my rifle not going bang when I want it too. I was thinking of the JP VMOS bolt carrier and Silent Captured spring, but would be open to other ideas as well. Any and all info is appreciated.

The only mod that I would make is to your collection and dumping the budget 308 gas gun, and getting something from company with a more established track record in large frame gas guns. In 2020, there are alot of good large frame gas gun options out there that are going to run with simple maintenance. JP makes great stuff but that not going to fix a chamber dimension issue if one exist.

 

[shields shtr]

You've never had it rip a rim off?

Nope. I am going to inspect, clean, and lubricate everything. I have a couple other different types of ammo I can try as well. If I don't get the desired results, I will move on to a different rifle and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I knew the risks when I went cheapo, and am probably suffering the consequences. I won't make the same mistake on my next one if it gets to that.

 

[hlee]

Sorry I left your chosen brand off my list. Lol.

I’d buy a Colt large frame over a JP any day of the week. Anything to validate JP being better?

 

[Jsp556]

Wow, ya knocked that one outta the park.

I think the C20 averaged .66 moa over 144 5 round groups and 8000 rounds with no stoppages, according to Colt Canada. This doesn’t really prove it’s better, but it’s quantifiable data.

Sorry, I don’t have a Disney meme.

 

[striped1]

Sorry I left your chosen brand off my list. Lol.

I’d buy a Colt large frame over a JP any day of the week. Anything to validate JP being better?

Well you can’t fix stupid. Colt hasn’t been a real player in ARs 15 or 10 in years. And to dismiss JP as a top tier precision AR shows how little you know. Not going to try to talk sense to someone who lists colt and armalight with a KAC and doesn’t know enough to consider a JP. Maybe check out lowlight’s videos shooting a JP before you open your holster. But for fucks sake don’t list colt, armalight and KAC as somehow comparable.

 

[bfoosh006]

As mentioned... remove all the frog lube. I really like ALG Go Juice, it is my go to lube.

Thoroughly clean the chamber as well.

If possible post photos of some of your fired cases... we will be looking for a possible rough chamber.

While Diamondback DB10's may not be the "top gun".... it should be able to run consistently.

And , if possible, can you link to the exact model you have.... Sometimes large frame AR's are fussy... so.. some times the details matter.

 

[6.5SH]

As mentioned... remove all the frog lube. I really like ALG Go Juice, it is my go to lube.

Thoroughly clean the chamber as well.

If possible post photos of some of your fired cases... we will be looking for a possible rough chamber.

While Diamondback DB10's may not be the "top gun".... it should be able to run consistently.

And , if possible, can you link to the exact model you have.... Sometimes large frame AR's are fussy... so.. some times the details matter.

The ALG grease is great, the oil is kinda crap really, a few shots and is gone. The irony there is the grease has additives that don't make it all the buzzword "green, bio, enviro" safe that they advertise for the oil (which is rape seed oil). In a dry climate it seems to evaporate quickly as well, although I can say I'm not overly impressed with Slip in that regard either, it does seem to hold up longer under fire than ALG though.

I honestly think Mobil 1 is the way to go, or one of the better Teflon sprays if need dry(er) lube and don't mind frequent reapplication.

 

[shields shtr]

DB1065CBGB - Diamondback Firearms

SKU: DB1065CBGB MSRP: $1149.00 UPC: 810035751248

www.diamondbackfirearms.com

I inspected my cases and they all look fine. Very smooth, no ejector marks, case heads look good, necks look good. Again, really appreciate all the insight.

Other than a couple of the obligatory my gun is better than your gun posts, lots of useful information. I will post back after I clean and inspect everything.

 

[6.5SH]

DB1065CBGB - Diamondback Firearms

SKU: DB1065CBGB MSRP: $1149.00 UPC: 810035751248

www.diamondbackfirearms.com

I inspected my cases and they all look fine. Very smooth, no ejector marks, case heads look good, necks look good. Again, really appreciate all the insight.

Other than a couple of the obligatory my gun is better than your gun posts, lots of useful information. I will post back after I clean and inspect everything.

Given it worked before I think once you clean and properly re-lube it you will be functional again. You had a known problematic lube and a temperature change known to cause issues with that lube (Coconut oil as the base).

 

[Jsp556]

Well you can’t fix stupid. Colt hasn’t been a real player in ARs 15 or 10 in years. And to dismiss JP as a top tier precision AR shows how little you know. Not going to try to talk sense to someone who lists colt and armalight with a KAC and doesn’t know enough to consider a JP. Maybe check out lowlight’s videos shooting a JP before you open your holster. But for fucks sake don’t list colt, armalight and KAC as somehow comparable.

Colt wins a Canadian Sniper rifle contract in 2019, and yet Hasn’t been a player for how many years? I’ll check to see when their last US contract for M4’s was awarded. ETA: The latest I could find was in 2019 worth about $41million.

Armalite has been building AR10’s for over 50 years and competed with and by some accounts bested KAC for the SASS contract yet isn’t comparable.

I never said JP wasn’t a good gun. I stated that I’d pick Colt over them.

I’ve seen LowLight’s videos. The JP’s do well over the 10’s of rounds fired in them.

I shoot LMT MWS’.

Don’t let your emotional attachment to a brand or your hero’s endorsement of a product blur the lines as to who can and does build a rifle that meets a set of requirements set forth by a military.

Personal attacks and your use of the word “holster” show you have no valid argument.

OP, sorry we’ve derailed your thread. I hope you get your gun sorted out.

ETA: Looks like Colt scored another contract for the C20 in 2020. Not too shabby for an irrelevant company.

The Firearm Blog - Firearms not Politics

Firearms not Politics

www.google.com

 

[shields shtr]

Well, I got the rifle all cleaned up and had a chance to shoot about 60 rounds today. I was actually surprised at how dirty it was given the relative low amount of rounds down the tube, but I suppose that is to be expected with a suppressed AR10. My chamber was pretty fricking dirty, and like some here had indicated I definitely had some gummed up frog lube/gnar of unknown origin in there. I just used some ye olde synthetic oil for lubricant and put a light coat on everything. I loaded up (3) 20 round mags of different 6.5 factory ammo and low and behold, not a single malfunction or failure to feed. It was about 17 degrees out, so it was definitely cold enough to emulate the conditions I had when the gun failed the first time. All the spent cases looked fine as well. I probably should have shot more, but given the recent ammo situation I was being a bit stingy.

I would imagine the hardest use I will ever have for that gun is maybe a 5-10 round volley at a coyote, or a hog when I go down to Texas, so I just tried to mimic that. So I guess the diagnosis would be shitty choice of lube and cold weather=malfunction. Makes me wonder about the videos you see of those dudes dumping their rifles in mud puddles and sand and then blasting away like nothing ever happened. I guess given my perceived severity of malfunction (I have never had to beat a case out a chamber on my AR's before) I thought something was definitely amiss more than a thorough cleaning and re-lube. Thanks to all for the input...and I wouldn't recommend FrogLube.

 

[Jsp556]

I’m glad you got it running. Hopefully it keeps on ticking.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Cool man! Glad you got her cleaned up and running smooth!

 

[drewthebrave]

Glad to hear that's all it took! Maybe you should edit your title to: Froglube Sucks

 

[theLBC]

Well, I got the rifle all cleaned up and had a chance to shoot about 60 rounds today. I was actually surprised at how dirty it was given the relative low amount of rounds down the tube, but I suppose that is to be expected with a suppressed AR10. My chamber was pretty fricking dirty, and like some here had indicated I definitely had some gummed up frog lube/gnar of unknown origin in there. I just used some ye olde synthetic oil for lubricant and put a light coat on everything. I loaded up (3) 20 round mags of different 6.5 factory ammo and low and behold, not a single malfunction or failure to feed. It was about 17 degrees out, so it was definitely cold enough to emulate the conditions I had when the gun failed the first time. All the spent cases looked fine as well. I probably should have shot more, but given the recent ammo situation I was being a bit stingy.

I would imagine the hardest use I will ever have for that gun is maybe a 5-10 round volley at a coyote, or a hog when I go down to Texas, so I just tried to mimic that. So I guess the diagnosis would be shitty choice of lube and cold weather=malfunction. Makes me wonder about the videos you see of those dudes dumping their rifles in mud puddles and sand and then blasting away like nothing ever happened. I guess given my perceived severity of malfunction (I have never had to beat a case out a chamber on my AR's before) I thought something was definitely amiss more than a thorough cleaning and re-lube. Thanks to all for the input...and I wouldn't recommend FrogLube.

good to hear you resolved it.

 

[bfoosh006]

The ALG grease is great, the oil is kinda crap really, a few shots and is gone. The irony there is the grease has additives that don't make it all the buzzword "green, bio, enviro" safe that they advertise for the oil (which is rape seed oil). In a dry climate it seems to evaporate quickly as well, although I can say I'm not overly impressed with Slip in that regard either, it does seem to hold up longer under fire than ALG though.

I honestly think Mobil 1 is the way to go, or one of the better Teflon sprays if need dry(er) lube and don't mind frequent reapplication.

Interesting, I have to say, I live in the PNW... and it is wet frequently. I have used it in the Southeastern Desert area's as well... but not for extended periods., 2 weeks max.......Go Juice Oil has been A+ in the damp'ish environment for me.

What type of climate do you spend most your time in ?