Good Caliber To Start With?

[BigCheese1]

Building my first big boy gun. Previously was a Rem 700 Long Action in .270 that killed me a nice buck when I was young. I have a bunch of .270 ammo.
My goal is to have a .270, 30-06, and .308 all custom built. Maybe a 300 winmag down the road. I now have the action sitting in my room, waiting to be built!!!
I want the best caliber that will allow me long ranges, great accuracy, and enough knock down power for deer, elk, pigs and whatever else. I want to learn the basics of precision and long range shooting. Because it is a long action I think I will leave the .308 out until I get a short action... unless you guys can sway me otherwise??
I want to be able to put a water jug out to 1,000 yards (or a far ass ways) and bust it in front of the guys. I would never attempt a deer or other animals at those ranges... at least not yet so I dont need something big enough to drop a moose at 600 yards haha.
.270 ammo is ALWAYS available for some reason. I am leaning towards a .270, although I like the idea of shooting a 30 cal bullet with the 30-06. I do not have the ability to reload yet so I guess I need a round that offers a good variety of over the counter bullet options?
I guess I just gotta pick one and run with it.... can any of you help me out here?!? Its time to get this build goin!

Thanks guys!

 

[DamnYuppie]

I think most on here would push you towards a 6.5, either a .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor. Enough power to knock down anything you are shooting, great ballistics, and will get to 1k.

For over the counter the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is really good.

 

[Derrick300]

300 Win Mag!! Will do everything you want and you'll have no problem finding ammo.

 

[565fitter]

if it was a short action I would say 6.5 creedmoor and build it to the hill and only have one rifle. maybe look into the .280 or 7mm. the 270 you have could be a real shooter to if you get yourself a press and start hand loading

 

[turbo54]

280 or 280AI will provide you with optimum ballistics, both exterior and terminal, from a long action .473" boltface rifle.

270 is fine, but the lack of long range, high bc target bullets is a problem for them - particularly at 750+ yards. Not to say it can't be done, it will just be considerably more difficult than with other choices.

30-06 is a fine cartridge, but it can't hang with the 280 (and particularly the 280AI) in terms of how flat it'll shoot, how little it'll drift, and how much downrange energy it will maintain.

 

[Name Enough]

I have 3 - 308 chambered rifles and my next will be a 6.5 Creedmoor. Lots of factory support as Hornaday orginated the caliber provides excellent prodcut support. The 6.5 is accurate at range and the recoil is very mangeable which can become an issue during extended shooting sessions. I had a 300 WinMag and thought the recoil while tolerable was tiring after 40 or 50 rounds. IMHO the 300 WinMag is not a starter round for someone starting out.

 

[BigCheese1]

I have read many places that the 6.5 Creedmor is extremely popular. Maybe I should go with that?

Someone mentioned a 300 Winmag. I feel like it is a little too much for deer? and that the recoil is punishing.. and that it burns barrels up fast! I am putting it in a XLR Chassis though so i think that will minimize much of the recoil.

IDK? Maybe the 300 winmag is the way to go? You guys tell me! I am just not familiar with rounds other than the 270. I would like to have a great all around cartridge... Many are saying the 6.5 CM or 300 Winmag... Should my decision be between these two rounds??

I am also no where near a beginner when it comes to hunting or shooting... I can be considered a newbie when it comes to LONG range precision shooting, reloading, and picking a caliber to start with! If you guys say 300 wm then Ill go with that... I just dont want to be splitting deer in half! haha

Let me know fellas

 

[Derrick300]

Shot many deer with the 300 and it doesn't vaporize deer believe me. And hogs just love the 190gr. pills!!!
No I don't have experience with the 6.5 or the 260 but I have had very positive results from my 300's. Recoil is not as bad as a lot of people say but I'm on the larger size 6'2" 240 so maybe smaller frame shooters might not enjoy the Win Mag so much.

 

[BoilerUP]

Another vote for the Creedmoor, even on a long action.

I'm 5'11", 180lb, and am a recoil bitch. 308 is about the extent of my comfort for shooting more than 20 rounds at a time: 270 or 30-06 is 10 rounds then done for a while. Of course recoil is moot with a good brake and nobody feels one shot while hunting...and everybody is different with their tolerances.

 

[Desert Fox]

If you don't reload, the 30-06 will be your best choice.

 

[BigCheese1]

I think I want to stick with a long action caliber since I am using a long action. I'll get a short action for a 308 or 6.5 cm down the road. So with the 270 out of the equation.. do I want a 30-06 or a 300 Winmag or something different?

 

[kimberseries1]

300 Win Mag!! Will do everything you want and you'll have no problem finding ammo.

.30-06 is easy to find ammo....much cheaper ammo....if you reload, can get very close to WM MV's...

Plus, if you kept your .270 brass you've got a head start on loading.

 

[Derrick300]

.30-06 is easy to find ammo....much cheaper ammo....if you reload, can get very close to WM MV's...

Plus, if you kept your .270 brass you've got a head start on loading.

You are correct, but the op also stated he doesn't reload.
Not trying to debate, just throwing my .02 on a caliber I have used for many years.
I also love the 7mm Rem Mag, great round with less recoil.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I built a 30-06. At the time is was more memorial to the old man than anything. It has NOT been a disapointment. It has reached every range I asked of it so far, including a mile with stellar accuracy, using 190SMKs and H4350. You can walk into ANY store and buy ammo, that cannot be said of the 280, 300WM,6.5 CM, etc. Plenty of good surplus available if you look. Some match ammo available. What SHOULDN'T you build? A .270 Win.

 

[lapua31]

Tried to talk a buddy out of a .300wm for his first big boy gun, he didnt follow my wise advice and promtly sold it.

Just sayin...

 

[JB02]

The bolt face you have is not compatible with 300 WM, or any "magnum" caliber. For a 30-06 Spr LA/308 Win SA bolt face your best bet is either keeping it as is or going 30-06 since you don't reload. Even in these crazy ammo shortage times I always am able to find 30-06 on the store shelves (along with 270 Win and 7mm Rem Mag).

 

[slm9s]

I also love the 7mm Rem Mag,

Except thats a different bolt face.

I'd stick to 270 or 30-06.

 

[texote]

6.5-284 or even a straight 284

 

[mkollman74]

Straight .284 or a 6.5x55 Swede would be my two choices...

 

[BigCheese1]

I believe I will go with the 30-06. To me, it sounds like a time proven, effective, all around cartridge. My vision is to be able to shoot sub MOA from 0-1000 yards on paper and have enough killing power for critters as small as coyotes all the way up to elk out to 500+ yards... maybe even moose someday and even a bear or two... (if i ever get the opportunity.)
I want to be able to set a gallon jug of water out at 1000 yards or any impressive distance and just be able to nail it and impressive everyone. I dont need the killing power to drop an animal so far away so that is why I will leave the 300 WinMag or magnum rounds for a later build.
I do not reload yet and I hear that the 30-06 has a good variety of over the counter bullet options, as well as good availability, even during these bad times. My research also indicates that once I do start reloading, I can experiment a good amount with a 30-06.
It sure does sound like the cartridge I am after. An accurate, deadly, strong, time proven effective round that is readily available and can do work!

If any of my estimation of this round is off base.. PLEASE tell me!!! I look forward to seeing what you guys say.

 

[HogBoss]

I've got a .30-06 R700 ADL (pencil bbl / hunting rifle) and have had great luck finding ammo at Wal Mart during the shortage. I reload using the Hornady manual and was surprised to see that the max loads for .30-06 fall into the mid-range of identical bullet loadings for the .300 Win Mag.

I'm looking into picking up a precision rifle in .308, .300 win mag, 6.5 creedmoor, or 260 Remington but haven't quite made up my mind.

From what I've read, the 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 Remington rounds have excellent ballistic coefficients (cut the wind well) but the .308 may be better to learn on for long range b/c it is more sensitive to wind.

 

[BigCheese1]

My understanding is that the 6.5 creedmoor is a short action cartridge? If that is correct then I think I will leave it out and go with a long action round for this build... unless the 6.5 creedmoor is just far superior to a 30-06? I have also read several posts about using a short action round in a long action which leads to feeding issues? Is that true as well? Many articles also suggest that the 6.5 cm has a very poor barrel life and just simply has much hype surrounding it. I am sure it is a fantastic round but I am looking for a excellent, all around, accurate and deadly long action round that will not burn up my barrel and will be found in every sporting goods store or gun range... is that too much to ask!?! Haha thanks guys

 

[Defusion]

If you want long action, also consider 6.5x55 Swede.
Not sure on pricing in the US, but here it is cheaper to shoot than 30-06 (if you handload and factor in barrel life)

Performance wise, they're pretty close.

 

[BoilerUP]

My understanding is that the 6.5 creedmoor is a short action cartridge?

Yes.

If that is correct then I think I will leave it out and go with a long action round for this build... unless the 6.5 creedmoor is just far superior to a 30-06?

"Far superior" is very subjective. For your stated purposes, and given that you are not reloading, I'd say YES it is.

I have also read several posts about using a short action round in a long action which leads to feeding issues? Is that true as well?

Not true; the M24 was a 7.62x51 rifle built on a 700 long action.

Many articles also suggest that the 6.5 cm has a very poor barrel life and just simply has much hype surrounding it.

While less than a 308, NO the 6.5 Creedmoor does not have poor barrel life...and no, the "hype" it has is for a reason. What articles, specifically, have you looked at?

I am sure it is a fantastic round but I am looking for a excellent, all around, accurate and deadly long action round that will not burn up my barrel and will be found in every sporting goods store or gun range... is that too much to ask!?!

Frankly, its getting up there for "too much to ask".

Yes you can find '06 everywhere, but you're probably going to struggle at extended ranges with the common soft point hunting bullets that you'll find everywhere. Quality factory match ammo for the '06 is somewhat limited in terms of types and availability, and often loaded down to be safe for a Garand which isn't close to maximizing the ability of a modern bolt action.

6.5 Creedmoor is still new and not nearly as available in shops as 30-06, but the 140gr A-Max factory ammo is <$30 per box, very accurate, and has great long-range ballistics ESPECIALLY relative to typical '06 ammo.

If you want an 06, get an 06...you won't regret it. But since you don't reload, you NEED to have realistic expectations for the ammunition you will have available to you.

 

[J E CUSTOM]

Building my first big boy gun. Previously was a Rem 700 Long Action in .270 that killed me a nice buck when I was young. I have a bunch of .270 ammo.
My goal is to have a .270, 30-06, and .308 all custom built. Maybe a 300 winmag down the road. I now have the action sitting in my room, waiting to be built!!!
I want the best caliber that will allow me long ranges, great accuracy, and enough knock down power for deer, elk, pigs and whatever else. I want to learn the basics of precision and long range shooting. Because it is a long action I think I will leave the .308 out until I get a short action... unless you guys can sway me otherwise??
I want to be able to put a water jug out to 1,000 yards (or a far ass ways) and bust it in front of the guys. I would never attempt a deer or other animals at those ranges... at least not yet so I dont need something big enough to drop a moose at 600 yards haha.
.270 ammo is ALWAYS available for some reason. I am leaning towards a .270, although I like the idea of shooting a 30 cal bullet with the 30-06. I do not have the ability to reload yet so I guess I need a round that offers a good variety of over the counter bullet options?
I guess I just gotta pick one and run with it.... can any of you help me out here?!? Its time to get this build goin!

Thanks guys!

Nothing wrong with the 270, But bullet selection in factory ammo is poor. If the action is currently in 270 the first thing to think about
is what will fit the action without any alterations. calibers that will fit this action would be the 25/06, 270, 280 and 30/06 and factory ammo
is available.

One of the best in this line is the 280 rem (7mm/06) the round is slightly longer for more powder capacity and with the bullets availability
in factory ammo it is considered one of the best all round F Class cartridges (600 to 1000 yard shooting).

There are many other good calibers but the action and bolt would have to be modified by a smith.

Just an option

J E CUSTOM

 

[BigCheese1]

BoilerUp.. thank you! And the main article I read was the very first one that comes up when you Google 6.5 creemoor vs .308. I have also read several comments on various posts claiming that the barrel life of the 6.5 is poor which turned me off after reading that. I am aware that the m24 was a long action.. I was just concerned about finding long action mags that would work with a short section round. I haven't looked yet though. I am willing to go with the 6.5.. I just want to be confident I pick the right cartridge for my needs/ desires

 

[Hawk45]

First off if you don't reload, I suggest you get a basic setup going as it will payoff in knowledge and smaller groups. Plus, it brings a world of endless possibilities as far as cartridge selection. If you don't reload, there aren't very many calibers outside of the .308 that you can walk into a store and buy match ammunition off the shelf (maybe 6.5 Creedmore if lucky or 300WM). You will find plenty of hunting rounds in .243, .308, .270, 30-06, 7mmRM, 300WM, but not much in match ammo (if that is a priority).

As far as reading about barrel life in the 6.5, it is better than the 6mm, but not as good as the 30cals. But a 6.5 should get you around 3000 rounds if not more if properly cared for. I don't know how much you shoot, but if you haven't used your gun in 10 years, I'm sure it will take you a while to get to 3000 rounds. Plus the cost of 3000 rounds of ammo will be roughly $4500, so even if you have to replace a barrel at $500, it's the cheapest part of your final bill.

 

[demolitionman]

I know you said your gong with the 30-06, but I am a big fan of the 6.5 ballistics comparative to the .30 cal. My 6.5 creed got me loving long range without the recoil of a .30 cal. I have a .308 and won't be doing much shooting with it until I get a brake spun on it....my 6.5 creedmoor spoiled me. Such a joy to shoot.

....but keep in mind, my shoot'n partner thinks I'm a recoil sensitive wuss lol!

 

[BigCheese1]

Thanks demolitionman... i am really warming up to going with the 6.5 cm! Can you tell me about its range on deer and hunting results? Enough for elk as well?

 

[Beluebow]

Since Elk was thrown in the mix,,and considering your bolt face,,my vote is 6.5x284 or 284.

 

[BigCheese1]

I am not concerned about my bolt face. I have a long action and am trying to pick a caliber to go with... once I do then everything will be built around that!! I'll be ordering a new bolt from ptg shortly after selecting a caliber

 

[BoilerUP]

I am not concerned about my bolt face. I have a long action and am trying to pick a caliber to go with... once I do then everything will be built around that!! I'll be ordering a new bolt from ptg shortly after selecting a caliber

The 6.5x55 (a ballistic equivilent to a 6.5 Creedmoor and interestingly, one best suited for a long action) has killed moose for a century. I know lots of folks like more "ass" for elk, but a 6.5 will kill them just as dead as anything else provided you 1. hit where you aim and 2. use a proper bullet.

 

[BigCheese1]

I know you said your gong with the 30-06, but I am a big fan of the 6.5 ballistics comparative to the .30 cal. My 6.5 creed got me loving long range without the recoil of a .30 cal. I have a .308 and won't be doing much shooting with it until I get a brake spun on it....my 6.5 creedmoor spoiled me. Such a joy to shoot.

....but keep in mind, my shoot'n partner thinks I'm a recoil sensitive wuss lol!

The 6.5x55 (a ballistic equivilent to a 6.5 Creedmoor and interestingly, one best suited for a long action) has killed moose for a century. I know lots of folks like more "ass" for elk, but a 6.5 will kill them just as dead as anything else provided you 1. hit where you aim and 2. use a proper bullet.

That's all I want. I want it to be dead. I don't need a bullet that will make something like a moose more dead than a deer. If the caliber has the ability to drop anything that I will be hunting with a good placed shot that's all that matters right? The 6.5 creedmoor is very interesting... I feel like its all just splitting hairs at this point. I want a fun gun to shoot so a ton of recoil that a 300 wm would bring me probably isn't what I'm after. Maybe .308, 30-06, 6.5 cm? Idk... haha iM about to go nuts if I don't stick to one soon

 

[demolitionman]

The nice thing about the .308 and 6.5 creed is they both have excellent factory match ammunition available. If hand loading maybe the 30-06 has an edge over .308? But for "match grade" factory ammo the 308 and 6.5 creed beat out the .260 and the 30-06...at least from what I could tell. I know how you feel. Choosing a chambering is tough! Do all your own research..and there are lots of guys here that know much more than I. Stick around here long enough and you'll get a feel for cartridges capabilities and compare them to each other. Also, Copper Creek offers high end amunnition for the .260 and maybe the ought-six?? I've always been intrigued by the .280 and .284 LA chamberings...but I don't have any personal experience with them.

 

[BigCheese1]

It is hard! I'm not sure what to go with and I really want to get this show on the road!

Please answer this... how readily available are mags for a short action cartridge that fit a long action rifle?

 

[Defusion]

Some numbers on theoretical accurate barrel life, using a calculator I once downloaded, think it was from accurateshooter.com
For hunting, you could probably stretch the required accuracy a bit.

6,5mm:
6.5x47 lapua, barrel life around 4000 rounds, but probably more of a target load than what you are looking for.
6.5cm and 260 rem, barrel life around 3500 (with a slight edge to the CM)
6.5x55, barrel life around 3000
These numbers are at max load according to my vithavuori manual.
6.5x55 is actually pretty versatile in that it can take some really light loads in the same category as the 6.5x47 lapua. Making barrel life more like 5k
Performance wise, the swede might get you about 100-150fps more with similar pressures compared to the 260 or 6.5cm.

.30cal
.308 around 6k
30-06 around 2500
300wm around 2000

Again, numbers at max load. I know some guys with 10 to 12k on a 308 barrel, and groups are just starting to open up a bit.
30-06 is also pretty versatile in that it can take lighter loads, just a bit over 308. 300wm not so much.
Performance wise, the 30-06 gets you around 100-200 fps more than 308 (depending on bullet selection). The 300wm obviously is the king here, with about 350-400fps more than the 308.

These are all numbers from the vithavuori reloading manual, and just selected bullets and powders I deemed appropriate, so you results may (and probably will) vary. I do hope this helps you in further narrowing down your selection though.
I'd suggest looking at recommended kinetic energy levels for the game you are hunting, comparing the calibers with data from your reloading manual. For long range (target) shooting, I suggest plugging in the data in a ballistic solver, and comparing those numbers.
I know it's all just theory, but it should help.

Personally, with what I've seen here, I'd recommend the 6.5x55 swede or 30-06 if you're set on a long action. it will work better than using shorter cartridges.
If you do decide to go with a short action, the 260 and 6.5cm are close enough to the swede. I'd probably not go with the 308 for 1000y target shooting due to relatively poor ballistics, and not go with the 300wm due to barrel wear and higher cost of rounds unless you plan on shooting past 1400y.

In short:
If you require long action and factory loads: 30-06
If you require factory loads but not long action: 6.5cm
If you require long action but not factory loads: 6.5 swede
If neither is a requirement anymore: Either of the above or 260

(I've not compared any 7mm offerings as I've not done any research on those, you'll have to see for yourself where those fit in)

 

[Beyschaefer]

If I was in your shoes, knowing now what I didn't know when I WAS in your shoes (just getting started)...
Here's what I would do, in order.
Keep collecting parts for the rifles you want to build.
Buy a reloading setup -learn to use same on the .270 you have.
Build the .30-06. It will be the easiest and most forgiving on reloading to give you experience, it's probably one of the best "do everything" cartridges EVER, and it will be easier on your shoulder and wallet than the .300 WM.

I would also DEFINITELY, with exclamation points, look real hard at the 6.5x55. Factory ammo, also easy to reload, and has killed more elk/moose in Scandinavia than there are roadkill skunks in California.
I've got nothing against any other 6.5 cartridge, but am somewhat distrustful of getting factory ammo for any cartridge that hasn't been around 30+ years yet.

Your short-action-cartridge in a long-action-rifle question, I'm going to refer you to someone who knows... and that's not me. I'll bet CDI Precision or one of the other DBM makers could steer you right on that one.

At least get a good reloading press and some books on reloading, even if you don't buy everything to get started reloading quite yet. Start getting stuff together. Hunting down factory ammo gets real old, real fast!

 

[BoilerUP]

Please answer this... how readily available are mags for a short action cartridge that fit a long action rifle?

Badger Ordinance makes two DBMs that fit a 700LA that use AI AE Mk.1 magazines; one is a M24 model and the other fits in a long action BDL inlet. There are no 700LA DBMs that use AICS-pattern short action (223/308) magazines.

Otherwise...simply take a 300WM AICS magazine and bend the feed lips to fit the non-magnum case, same as anybody that runs a 30-06 or 280AI. Should feed just fine, with the worse-case scenario resulting in a small mag block and cut follower to fit.

 

[long range newbie]

I got a 160 but for buying ammo buy a 6.5 creedmoor

 

[308sniper147]

I think people don't give the .223 enough credit. It was my first precision rifle. And my out of the box remington sps tac. Shot under .75 moa out to 300 yards and I was a very inexperienced
Shooter. I put a bell and carlson a2 stock and a falcon menace 4-14 scope and with a handloads with 55 gr nosler varmageddon rounds. Not even match bullets or anything I got consistent sub .5 " groups. And could hit consitently out to 750 yards which is the longest range I had available. Just food for thought

 

[BigCheese1]

well i wouldnt be too opposed to the .223, 6.5, .308 or any of the short action cartridges if it werent for the difficulty in finding mags for them that are made for a Long action

 

[Sako man]

.308, will kill a deer. Lots of hunting and match ammo available. Good ballistics. Easy and cheep to reload for. Easy on shoulder. Easy on barrel. I can shoot out to past 1200 with relative accuracy and consistency.

.260, if you have just a little more money and want awesome ballistics.

 

[BoilerUP]

I don't think there is any way to run 223 in a 700 long action. You can, however, do that in a Savage

The easiest way to do what you want to do with your long action (IMO) is spin a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel on and run it in AICS 300WM 5rd magazines.

Or, spin on a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel and get the Badger M5 #306-85 700LA BDL drop-in that uses AI AE Mk.1 magazines (Triad Tactical has them in stock, and I have talked with Marty @ Badger about it previously) and buy a fistful of magazines from Mile High Shooting Accessories.

Or, spin on a 30-06 (or 6.5x55 or 280 or whatever) barrel and run them in AICS 300WM 5rd magazines.

 

[BigCheese1]

I love this forum.... that's exactly what I wanted to know... my biggest concern was having mags for a 6.5 or .308 in a long action! Especially if you're like my and have a SHTF mentality from time to time. If the mags are interchangeable like that I am more open to shooting a smaller round

 

[FCS]

284 would be high on my list for a std bolt face LA 700, set up around 180 gr, high BC match bullet.
280AI would be in the mix
7-08 with chamber set up to put boattail / bearing surface right at neck / shoulder with 168 VLD will be over 3.000" long and will run fine from a LA magazine.
308 w/heavier match bullet will be over 3.000" long with BT/BS @ N/S, won't give you as much performance as a 30-06.

If you don't reload, then options for ammo that'll give you peformance desired at 1K yds gets pretty skinny, pretty quick. There are ways to get ammo in next to any caliber that will meet your needs for accuracy but will cost more then FGMM or similar factory match ammo.

 

[Kreeper]

Start with a good off the shelf .308. shoot til you understand all the basics. Trigger time is Key, Then decide to move up or down or stay. You will settle in to a caliber on your own, not what others are shooting.

 

[Flea21]

Start with a good off the shelf .308. shoot til you understand all the basics. Trigger time is Key, Then decide to move up or down or stay. You will settle in to a caliber on your own, not what others are shooting.

I completely agree. Go with something versatile like a .308 and then decide for yourself up or down and dont let someone's opinion who has no interest in your gun life whatsoever other than wanting to be heard on a forum... Good Luck and have fun!!