I run these. I’d almost consider it a must have for factory ammo.
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Good video showing effectiveness of a tuner
- Thread starter Dthomas3523
- Start date
Isn't this the same idea behind the Browning BOSS?
Guess that's off-patent now?
Guess that's off-patent now?
I’d much rather have a tuner than a brake.
But I much prefer my can so until something gets developed to go with that...
The 419 hellfire system should adopt a tuner aspect to theirs. Maybe a new universal barrel adaptor that has the tuner disk hang off the back towards the shooter but you can still screw the can or brake on the front.
But I much prefer my can so until something gets developed to go with that...
The 419 hellfire system should adopt a tuner aspect to theirs. Maybe a new universal barrel adaptor that has the tuner disk hang off the back towards the shooter but you can still screw the can or brake on the front.
That's my biggest hangup I only shoot suppressed too
Hi,
Barrel tuners were around long before the BOSS...rimfire guys have been using them damn near forever, lol.
When you cannot custom tune your ammo, you have to find ways to tune your rifle.
Sincerely,
Theis
Barrel tuners were around long before the BOSS...rimfire guys have been using them damn near forever, lol.
When you cannot custom tune your ammo, you have to find ways to tune your rifle.
Sincerely,
Theis
1: BOSS is an integrated brake
2: I’m pretty sure browning doesn’t and never had a patent on tuners. They all work roughly the same moving a weight back and forth. Pretty hard to patent that
I don’t see why this wouldn’t work with a suppressor. The tuner and brake are independent (you use whatever brake you want). Here’s what muzzle looks like without either:
I thought this was going to be a gimmicky product, then I saw that the video was put out by Paul Reid and now I have have to change my perspective on tuners. Paul is a hell of shooter and an all around great person.
If you think Paul is good, google the guy who makes the tuners.
Tuners have been around forever, just not so much in PRS.
I believe David Tubb was the first to bring it to PRS (I could be wrong, I'm not a tuner historian). His muzzle brake that came out a year or two ago is designed to also act as a tuner, I know a few people that run those.
Tuners are popular in sports where you shoot at a set distance - say 1,000 yard benchrest and F-class, where the popular method of load development is positive compensation, which is if not mistaken essentially what a tuner does.
I disagree with Paul Reid in him saying that they are useful for new reloaders struggling with their reloads - to add another variable to an already seemingly complex process to a new reloader will only muddy the waters further. You need to be taking out variables for them, not introducing more.
For factory ammo, I can maybe see it if you didn't optimize your chambering for your factory of ammo of choice from the get-go, or maybe decided on a different route. This EC tuner needs more gunsmithing work it appears, with a second set of threads and profiling the barrel down from their to the muzzle, which is a big cost increase on a consumable portion of the rifle.
From my experience, I've never had issues getting ammo to shoot well, from factory to reloads, and I have pretty high standards. Of course, that requires appropriate chambers cut by top notch gunsmiths. For going for world record 1,000 yard shots I could see it, but I think in most cases for our discipline I don't think it would add much value.
If you want to play around with tuners, check out David Tubbs brake, so you don't have to get more gunsmithing work done before jumping head in. I would be curious to others thoughts on this subject, but have to admit I'm barely feeling luke warm on them for PRS/NRL shooting.
I believe David Tubb was the first to bring it to PRS (I could be wrong, I'm not a tuner historian). His muzzle brake that came out a year or two ago is designed to also act as a tuner, I know a few people that run those.
Tuners are popular in sports where you shoot at a set distance - say 1,000 yard benchrest and F-class, where the popular method of load development is positive compensation, which is if not mistaken essentially what a tuner does.
I disagree with Paul Reid in him saying that they are useful for new reloaders struggling with their reloads - to add another variable to an already seemingly complex process to a new reloader will only muddy the waters further. You need to be taking out variables for them, not introducing more.
For factory ammo, I can maybe see it if you didn't optimize your chambering for your factory of ammo of choice from the get-go, or maybe decided on a different route. This EC tuner needs more gunsmithing work it appears, with a second set of threads and profiling the barrel down from their to the muzzle, which is a big cost increase on a consumable portion of the rifle.
From my experience, I've never had issues getting ammo to shoot well, from factory to reloads, and I have pretty high standards. Of course, that requires appropriate chambers cut by top notch gunsmiths. For going for world record 1,000 yard shots I could see it, but I think in most cases for our discipline I don't think it would add much value.
If you want to play around with tuners, check out David Tubbs brake, so you don't have to get more gunsmithing work done before jumping head in. I would be curious to others thoughts on this subject, but have to admit I'm barely feeling luke warm on them for PRS/NRL shooting.
I will say it was neat to see how quickly he got the groups dialed in with a tuner.
Curious to see how many people actually use/play with these.
Curious to see how many people actually use/play with these.
Most people running factory ammo are running saami chambers. Many of them have to “figure out what ammo my rifle likes.”
This eliminates that. Buy the ammo, tune rifle.
I use them and they tune pretty much that way every time. Sometimes you end up shooting 6-10 groups to find the setting. But it dials in to an obvious setting just like he did.
So much so that for PRS, I don’t even do much jump testing anymore. Find stable powder node via chrono, them either do jump test to see what the “long jump” node is that keeps the POI the same for a jump span long enough to account for throat erosion for barrel life. Or just set it to .020, tune it, then measure chamber after each match and load next batch of ammo to .020.
Definitely cuts down on PRS load development. It will dial into .3 hardly trying.
I will say that's interesting, I can definitely see some of the merits.
I can't say I spend much time on load development, I only shoot Berger's and I usually just set them to 10 or 20 thou off the lands, and I never chase the lands. Shoots really good throughout the life of the barrel.
I will say I'm warming up to the idea of tuners.
Maybe these will get RDF's to shoot 
Short answer is by moving a weight near the muzzle you are changing he whip and harmonics of barrel. When you get them in “tune” then the barrel is acting the exact same way every shot and thusly the poi becomes more consistent (smaller groups).
Interesting. I'm guessing then different muzzle devices would have a similar effect or even simply unscrewing a self timing brake. Might be something to play around with.
Are there breaks that you can add weights to?
@2aBaCa
I bet you could use a jam nut to adjust a muzzle brake to do something similar, maybe not the same as a tuner but it would definitely change things.
I bet you could use a jam nut to adjust a muzzle brake to do something similar, maybe not the same as a tuner but it would definitely change things.
I saw that, its basically a self timing brake. Whats the difference if you do that with any symmetrical brake in 180 or 360 rotations out?
Issue with a brake is you are locked into a 180 or 360 depending on how the ports are cut. Tubb’s brake is basically a “semi” tuner. Gives you tuner like ability but stops just short of an actual tuner. Which there’s nothing wrong with.
Regular tuner allows you to finely adjust.
I had a browning boss on a 300 win mag. It works exactly the same. It was simply to use and allowed me to have a nice deer or elk bullet weight. I think for a lot of people it was a bit confusing and the muzzle blast was new back then and so it went into the history books
Hi,
Muzzle blast from compensators/brakes was common well before the BOSS came about.
Here is article in Popular Mechanics from 1932 I think....
Popular Mechanics
Popular Mechanics inspires, instructs and influences readers to help them master the modern world. Whether it’s practical DIY home-improvement tips, gadgets and digital technology, information on the newest cars or the latest breakthroughs in science -- PM is the ultimate guide to our high-tech...
books.google.com
The BOSS went away because it was on a Browning.....
Edited To Add:
Another trick some of the RF guys were doing back in the mid 90s with their sporter class rifles (could not have tuner) was to recess the crown a thou at a time until they had their rifle "tuned".
Sincerely,
Theis
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LolHi,
Muzzle blast from compensators/brakes was common well before the BOSS came about.
Here is article in Popular Mechanics from 1932 I think....
Popular Mechanics
Popular Mechanics inspires, instructs and influences readers to help them master the modern world. Whether it’s practical DIY home-improvement tips, gadgets and digital technology, information on the newest cars or the latest breakthroughs in science -- PM is the ultimate guide to our high-tech...books.google.com
The BOSS went away because it was on a Browning.....
Edited To Add:
Another trick some of the RF guys were doing back in the mid 90s with their sporter class rifles (could not have tuner) was to recess the crown a thou at a time until they had their rifle "tuned".
Sincerely,
Theis
You just turn it. It has its own set of threads. It’s usually tight enough on threads (if cut properly) that it won’t move on its own. But it also has 3 set screws.
It’s basically just a weight with .050” of movement to adjust through to desired setting.
If you overlay all of the shots on that cardboard (38gr) you have a group. Otherwise you have a bunch of group fetuses (or however that word is plural).
Seriously, not trying to dog it. I'd like to test one out myself, but I'm sure you know my opinion of 3-5 shot groups.
Seriously, not trying to dog it. I'd like to test one out myself, but I'm sure you know my opinion of 3-5 shot groups.
I don't disagree with you in theory... but in practice, if the gun is working and the nut between the Peltors is tight, it *is* repeatable.
I've been using Erik's tuners for a while now on my FTR rigs, and they work.
I will admit, the first time I tested mine I had the groups tighten up... then go to one hole - as in I thought I missed the paper, because even at 42x I couldn't tell there was more than one shot in the group - and then open back up. Wasn't *quite* sure I believed that (frankly, the shot didn't break that good), so I fudged the setting towards the other small groups just before and went to a local 3x600 practice. First couple strings were good, but felt like something was being left on the table. Third string, I twisted the tuner back down one mark and bingo, the group flattened right out.
Now I generally do a test one day... and a follow up test another day, just to make sure, or in the event that there are more than one spots that look promising.
The way I do my test is I fire one shot at '0', move the tuner to '2', fire at the next aiming point, etc. all the way past 25... then I turn it all the way back to the beginning and repeat.
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The good news is that’s it’s not a perishable item. When barrel is done, keep tuner for the next barrel.
These require some additional machining. Scroll up, someone posted a pic.
intresting how this technology was invented in the 90 s yet people haven’t heard of it or don’t use it
I didn’t know what I was looking at, but I figured it out the weight slides and threads over a machined barrel. Definitely I would buy one if one is developed for use with a suppressor since I don’t reload.
thanks
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Aaron Hipp has designed one to just go on your muzzle threads behind your muzzle device that you normally use. The design looks great.
I never saw it but the range master said one of the members uses a similar device and has dope/adjustment for different conditions/temps and uses it for competition. It could have been the same device, I never saw or met the man but the range master was commenting on one of those slide on rubber style ones my brother had stuck on one of his rifles
I got one from Erik and I’ll also get one from Hipp to try once they’re available. I like the idea of not having to modify a barrel specifically for a tuner, but I’d be lying if I think they will be equally as effective.
I will say the one from Eric looks like a pretty effective design. I would also think it would be more effective then other designs.
It's interesting to see this gear/technique creep into PRS/NRL. I can't say the results I have without a tuner makes me feel like I'm missing out on anything.
It's an interesting design... but a couple threads and a few set screws seems like a pale comparison for the length of threads and the alignment pad of the EC tuner. The TPI looks a little coarse, too. The proof is in the pudding, though, so we'll see how it compares once a few more of them get out in the wild. I do like the idea of being able to use it with an existing threaded muzzle without an additional machining step, though.
