Hunting & Fishing Got drawn for elk! Help me choose a caliber!

[bodywerks]

I've been killing steel for a few years now, and recently took up hunting. Arizona is a draw state for pretty much all big game other than mountain lion. I was unsuccessful in my draw for deer last season and was sure that elk would be an even bigger long shot. Not so! I got drawn! Yeah, it's cow elk, but an opportunity for meat in the freezer nonetheless!
I need help choosing a caliber for up to 500 yards. I've made 1moa cold bore hits on steel up to 780 yards, but I don't want to push the limit for the sake of an ethical harvest. I feel that 500 is my ethical limit.
My go to, tack-driver rifle is my 260, but I wouldn't trust it to drop a 500 pound animal beyond 200 yards.
I have a rifle I built intended for deer in 7 saum. I was thinking of developing a load using 150gr Nosler accubond lr bullets, but do you think that's enough?
Now, I have a custom 338 Lapua that I would love to use. I have made consistent 1moa cold bore shots with it as far as 740 consistently, and have made sub 1/3 moa 3 shot groups at 540 yards. Problem is its a 22 pound rifle! I'd pretty much have to drive to the top of a hill and set up and wait and hope something came strolling along!
So what do you think? I'm thinking the 7 saum is my overall best bet currently, but I'm really thinking there's a better all around round cartridge out there - first one that comes to mind is a 7mmRUM. I'd go for a 300wm but I'm not a fan of 30 call bullets as a general rule, although I've only really dealt with 180gr and lower bullets.

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[wrhunter]

Your 7 saum is perfect for elk. If the 150 accubonds shoot well, use them. If not try another bullet. You will not be at a loss for knock down power with the saum.

 

[rancilio]

Congrats on your tag. What unit, what dates? I am hoping to see the cc charge soon. I only put in for early archery in 7.

I have never seen what a .338LM does to critters, but I can imagine. If you are not willing to hump it, I suppose its out of the running anyhow. I say take the .260 and keep it to <200y for a body POA. Shot placement is key of course. Head shots are a nice way to maximize meat and probably can extend the range if you are confident.

 

[West_Bay_Wader]

I am in the process of building a 7 SAUM for long range work / Elk etc..... I plan to push 180 bergers and / or 168 LRX and LR Accubonds.

 

[Timberbeast7]

The 7saum is plenty, even the .260 would be OK. I've killed 6 elk with a .270 WSM shooting 140 gr. Accubonds from 20 to 420 yards. Heck, my wife killed a 6x6 in 2012 with a .25-06 at 310 yds with a 115 gr. Partition. Shot placement goes farther than flinging bigger, faster, heavier lead IMO (unless you start shooting at them at long range, then those bigger calibers keep the energy you need at long range...but shot placement is still important as well), especially when it comes to wasting meat.

 

[ZiaHunter]

7mm SAUM is plenty of round for elk. We have harvested a good number of elk with a .270 with bullets running from 130 gr. to 150 gr. Guided my friend in SW New Mexico this past October and he harvested a nice 5x5 at 521 yards with a 270 shooting 150 gr. Berger's. Single shot just behind the shoulder and the bull went tits up. Shot was made off a tripod with a hog saddle.

 

[ZLBubba]

Develop a good load for that 7 SAUM and practice practice practice. You'll be good to go. Good luck.

 

[Steve1]

I've shot several elk with a 270 with 130 and 140 grain bullets. I've shot several more with a 30/06 and 150 grain (Nosler Partition) bullets. I think 180 grain would have done better.

Elk are tough critters. I broke both shoulders on a big cow once, with a 30/06 and she was still on her feet. I always considered the 270 about minimum for elk. A friend of mine has killed a bunch of elk with a 264 magnum. A 7mm magnum would be a great elk gun. I now have a 300 Winchester for elk, but haven't shot much with it yet.

Whatever caliber you pick choose a heavily constructed bullet that expands well and won't blow up on bone. I really like the accuracy of Accu-bond bullets. I've only shot one elk with them. They worked just fine....

 

[lancetkenyon]

First off...congrats on drawing an AZ elk tag.

Let us know what unit and I am sure a lot of guys will pipe up with some good suggestions for locations.

As for the rifle....whatever you can hit your target with EVERY TIME! The .260 with 140gr. pills will be plenty with proper bullet placement and construction. The 7 SAUM will rock an elk, but again, proper placement is a must. I would look at 150-168 gr pills with that round.

 

[Bill Larson]

The 7saum is plenty, even the .260 would be OK. I've killed 6 elk with a .270 WSM shooting 140 gr. Accubonds from 20 to 420 yards. Heck, my wife killed a 6x6 in 2012 with a .25-06 at 310 yds with a 115 gr. Partition. Shot placement goes farther than flinging bigger, faster, heavier lead IMO (unless you start shooting at them at long range, then those bigger calibers keep the energy you need at long range...but shot placement is still important as well), especially when it comes to wasting meat.

+2 AMAN.....there`s an elk guide out of Gardner Mt. that has shot a lot of elk with a 220 swift...... shot placement is the key..... if you do a search on this site...there is a lot of info on shooting elk and other animals with the SMK bullet.....

 

[FN in MT]

I've killed a mess of cows and bulls with a .280 Rem. 150 gr Nosler partitions at 2950 fps out to 400 yds. Pop em in the lungs and they die.I DO suggest using a good bullet though.

It's more about PLACEMENT than gun , caliber or whatever.

 

[fdkay]

My Dad got himself a very nice cow elk in NM a couple of years ago using his 6.5x55 with a 160 grain woodleigh protected point bullet (.509 bc).
They make a 140 that would probably be better suited to the .260, very good bullets.
They also make 7mm bullets.
I really don't think you can do any better than the 7 saum.
Keep in mind, WDM Bell killed nearly 1000 elephants with the 7x57 mauser (also called .275 rigby) and the 175 grain round nose bullets. I'm no biologist, but I'm pretty certain that elephants are a bit more difficult to kill than an elk. Of course, the shots were close but it was and still is, all about shot placement and penetration.

 

[bodywerks]

Thanks for the vote of confidence in the 7SAUM. I was worried(hoping) I'd have to build another rifle!
Right now I'm running the 140 accubond with the "canned" accuracy Load(59.5 4831sc) it's shooting 1moa at 540 right now, but I'm hoping my backorder of 150 accubond lr comes in. I'm thinking it'd be a better flying bullet.

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[bodywerks]

Congrats on your tag. What unit, what dates? I am hoping to see the cc charge soon. I only put in for early archery in 7.

I have never seen what a .338LM does to critters, but I can imagine. If you are not willing to hump it, I suppose its out of the running anyhow. I say take the .260 and keep it to

Thanks! Not sure the unit yet, they've just pinged my bank account on Friday. I'm thinking it's either 2ab, 7w, or 6b. I put in for 27 as my first choice, but seeing that I had no bonus points I doubt I got that. I put in for my hunts based on last year's draw odds vs hunt success and choose the ones with the best of both. Looks like it paid off!

 

[Jkling12]

As already mentioned a good bullet and shot placement is more important than caliber. I like Barnes ttsx or lrx. They do not fall apart and do a great amount of damage upon entering. I have also had good luck with accubonds but they do not hold up like the all copper Barnes.

 

[bodywerks]

First off...congrats on drawing an AZ elk tag.

Let us know what unit and I am sure a lot of guys will pipe up with some good suggestions for locations.

As for the rifle....whatever you can hit your target with EVERY TIME! The .260 with 140gr. pills will be plenty with proper bullet placement and construction. The 7 SAUM will rock an elk, but again, proper placement is a must. I would look at 150-168 gr pills with that round.

Thanks, and I totally agree about shot placement. Right now I'm rockin it with the 260 at 545

But I'd really like to have more energy behind it. The 7SAUM isn't built for the same accuracy but I can keep it sub MOA with the right load, and it's only a 12lb rifle all up.

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[Duff]

any gun will do with the right shot placement. a 7mm rem mag is good for anything from speed goat up to elk. I've seen 7mm SAUM drop elk in a hurry at distance. I've been toying with the idea of building one myself. the real key is shot placement. you can shoot an elk in the heart with a .22-250 and he won't get very far. in my mind 7mm on up is a safe range for elk (even a poorly placed shot will take it down.). as hunters we strive for a humane single shot quick kill but theres no harm in a follow up shot as long as its quickly done and accurate enough to put it down and not cause the animal anymore pain.

Good luck on the hunt! be sure to keep us posted and don't be to shy about being generous with some jerky! happy hunting

 

[bodywerks]

Thanks. Can't wait to see which unit I actually got. The terrain in northern AZ is highly varying. Two of the hunts I put in for are in somewhat open range, whereas the others are in forest/hilly areas. Two different hunting strategies...

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[Steve1]

You might want to check out royaltine.com. Look under the stories and pictures. There's a thread titled Lerey's Bull. She shot a 7x8 bull at 478 yds. with a .260 Savage. That bull is a real hog. I'll bet it scores close to 400. Royaltine knows a lot about long range shooting. You might ask him what he thinks. I'd want a little bigger gun than that, but maybe it will get the job done, with the right bullet, and proper placement.

My family and I have shot a ton of deer and antelope with a 243. I used to load a Nosler solid base bullet in it, and never had a problem with the bullets coming apart. Personally I think a bigger cartridge would work better for elk. I think it was Elmer Keith who said, "Use enough gun".....

 

[MarkCO]

Depending on the shot and conditions presented, sure anything from a .22LR to a Howitzer might get the job done. The choice of caliber is all about maximizing the conditions for which you can make a clean and effective one shot kill...end of story.

My father and father-in-law both shoot the 7mmMag for elk, between them, they have 6 elk hit over about 25 years that were not one shot drops and at least four of them, I saw the bullet impact the center of the chest. In one case, a cow elk at 80 yards...took 3 slugs to the chest and still took another bite of grass. I handed my dad the .30-06 and the shot hit just forward of the others, but dumped her like a sack of potatoes. When we dressed her out, she had three tiny entrance holes and three tiny exit holes, no rib hit, from the 7mmMag in about a 1.5" group in and out. There was one slightly larger entrance hole that hit a rib about 3" further forward. It jellied the lungs and made a 2" exit hole. In my experience with my .260 and Accubonds, I do believe it would have performed better in that one condition than the 7mmMag that just lasered on through. That same 7mm round dumped an elk at 330 yards the next year, perfect bullet performance. Magnum 7s are great 200 on out. Inside 100, they usually work great, but if you miss bone on the way in with anything but a Ballistic tip, they have a risk of failing to expand.

Just like calibers, bullets have performance windows. Drive a small diameter bullet really fast and run the risk of a no bone hit shot at close range that will not be effective. My 12 year old shot his elk at 350 yards with a .308 this year. Most of my elk I have shot with a .30-06, but about 10 years ago I went to the .338-06. That thing is a hammer. I have shot elk from 20 yards to 505 and all have dropped immediately except the one at 505. It jumped off the ledge and ended up 6 feet off the ground in a juniper tree. I have been personally present to see well over 100 elk shot with .243s up to .375Magnums. Impact velocities with good bullets between 2200 and 2800 seems to be the sweet spot for elk, regardless of distance. Elk are tough!

So, I would take one of two paths given your current battery. 1. Develop a load for your 7mm using a minimum 160 grain slug, preferably a 175 or 180. Slow that sucker down a bit so that the close in animals will still have expansion and energy dump. 2. Develop a load for the .260 with a heavy slug and limit yourself to maybe 300 yards or so and still take the .338 in case you find a conducive spot to set up with that.

If you want to (and who does not) and can afford to get a new rifle, go big. A .33, .35, .37 caliber pushing 200 to 300 grain slugs at a MV of 2500 to 2800 range is the perfect elk stopping recipee. That will also give you a larger bore that might open a window for you to go after Alaskan, African or Texas exotics if you get a hankering in the future. I love my .338-06, but there are at least 10 really good 33-37 caliber cartridges that fit the bill very well.

 

[Steve1]

A buddy of mine is an ex-Alaskan bush pilot. He shoots elk with his 338 magnum. That's a lot of gun, and it kicks like a mule. It also does a great job of knocking elk down. I asked him about recoil. He admitted that it does kick a lot, but he doesn't even notice it when he is shooting at game. He says he uses a lead sled, when he shoots at targets.

Last Fall he took his little daughter out hunting. It was the last day of the season and the snow was deep. Around noon they were checking out some bedding areas in some thick timber. His daughter was packing the same 338 that he used in Alaska. I would think that a lighter gun would have been better suited for her, but that is the rifle she was using....She had shot it on the lead sled, but never at game. My friend was walking behind his daughter, when suddenly she froze dead still. She was staring intently ahead of her. Slowly she moved over to a little tree to take a rest, just like she had been taught by old Dad. The only visible shot was a big bulls head. The gun banged and the elk fell over dead. It was a big six point that scored over 350 points. This little girl was only 13 years old. Not a bad start to a hunting career. My buddy was one proud parent.

I'm not sure what the moral of this story is. I thought I'd throw in a good elk story to keep things interesting....

 

[Bigwheels]

My elk rifle is a 338 WM running 250 AB @ 2800 fps. Kicks, yes, but only 2 critters have ever taken even 1 step after being hit by it.

 

[bodywerks]

Thanks for the suggestions Mark. I'm leaning toward the 7 saum. I currently have 150 accubond lr on order but will look at the heavier option. I'm not a fan of the finicky tuning of the Berger vld's but I may have to go that route.
Awesome story Steve!

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[Timberbeast7]

I have taken a LOT of game with Accubond bullets, (antelope, deer, elk, mountain goat). I've never been disappointed with the performance of them, the only thing disappointing is their price tag...

 

[Steve1]

I recently shot a 1/4 inch four shot group, with my 270 (hunting rifle),and Accubond bullets (At 100 yds.) That's my best group ever. They seem to hold together well too. I need to shoot some more game with them, but so far, I'm sold on them....

 

[bodywerks]

I recently shot a 1/4 inch four shot group, with my 270 (hunting rifle),and Accubond bullets (At 100 yds.) That's my best group ever. They seem to hold together well too. I need to shoot some more game with them, but so far, I'm sold on them....

What I'm seeing is that the non-longrange accubond are plenty accurate at 100 yards. They're even ok at 545 yards but their relative low bc and short boattail design seems to REALLY affect their long range performance. I chronied my 160s at 2925. I plugged in the bc into shooter, and calculations were quite accurate to about 740 yards. I forget what it came up with for a 1,000 yard dope, but I dialed in what it told me and it turned out to be like 2 mils low! I think the non-long range bullets have a real bad yaw tendency as they drop, and it causes all sorts of accuracy issues.
I consider myself an ok shooter. I have shot a few sub half MOA groups at 545yds with both my 260 and 338, and they consistently shot at least sub MOA at that distance. But the saum is more of a 1 to 1.5 MOA shooter at that range, and I attribute it to non long range, low bc bullets more than anything else, as they are all match barrel guns. That's why I'm hoping to get my hands on the accubond LR's.

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[Steve1]

Thanks for the info. Bodywerks! I've never shot beyond 500 yds. I'm learning a lot from these forums. A bullet with a better ballistic coefficiant would probably be more accurate at long range. I'm wondering what bullet to try next. Do you have any suggestions? Possibly Berger bullets in a heavier weight? I haven't seen any Accu-bond (Long Range) bullets yet, but I'll keep a lookout for them.

 

[bodywerks]

A lot of what affects non long range bullets is the low bc, and the shooter not accounting for the longer lag time off low bc bullets. If I were a better shooter the non long range bullets would probably be no big deal. But I'll be the first to admit I need all the help I can get!

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[Houk8539]

Accubonds are phenomenal and accurate. And I have to say I wouldn't be handicapped packing a Barnes bullet those things are tops in my book for penetration. The 7 sauna is an awesome caliber.. Rock on captain with that combo


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[Busterstw]

Barnes is the number 1 game bullet for me. I won't hunt with anything else. I have just been through load development with the new Barnes LRX bullets. They can be frustrating to get to shoot but ultimately will shoot well.
7Stw Barnes 168LRX
300 WM Barnes 175 LRX
Both my choice for elk!

 

[kraigWY]

I'm old, with a touch of COPD. I want light, a bullet I can shoot in a light rifle. My go to elk rifle is a the New Model 70 Featherweight in 270 win. My go to bullet is the Hornady 150 gr InterBond.

Great combination. Inter bonds are pricy so for practice I use the 150 SST. They have the same BC as the IBs.

This gal went down with one shot (you can see the placement), at 340 yards (342 per LRF, 340 per GPS) then rolled down into the creek.

I do wish she hadn't made it to the creek though.

Not shown was the exit hole on her other side. If she didn't go down right away, she would have left a pretty good blood trail.

 

[bodywerks]

Nice kill!

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[WAMBO]

Congrats on the elk tag, interested in hearing where you got drawn.
Got some 160 NAB's sitting on the shelf if you want to give them a try.
We need to send some lead down range sometime soon, hope to get the 1000yd range reserved later in May.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Congrats on the elk tag, interested in hearing where you got drawn.
Got some 160 NAB's sitting on the shelf if you want to give them a try.
We need to send some lead down range sometime soon, hope to get the 1000yd range reserved later in May.

If you need more shooters to reserve the 1K range, post up here. I would be very interested.

 

[WAMBO]

Do not really need more shooters to reserve the range but more shooters are always welcome.
Will be at the Tucson Rifle Club during the week of 5-19 thru 5-25 depending on what date is available.

 

[bodywerks]

Thanks wambo, I'll save the dates for 1k practice. Fwiw, it was those accubond 160s that I made the cold bore 785(ish) yard hit and followed up with two more on that 10" plate, but they are also the ones that went to shit when I tried them at 1k.
If the 150 or 175 accubond LR bullets I have on backorder don't come in in time to work up a load on them I'll stick with the nab 160s and limit myself to 450 yards or so.

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[18Echo]

Bodywerks, I got drawn for Cow Elk too and I plan on using my Crescent Customs .300WM shooting a 185gr Berger VLD over H1000.

 

[c1steve]

The .325 WSM is very popular with Alaskan hunters. Excellent ballistics but with less recoil than a 338WM.

 

[Rthur]

If you go with the 7 saum start looking for brass now.


R

 

[bodywerks]

Already have 100 pieces of Nosler brass...

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[bodywerks]

Bodywerks, I got drawn for Cow Elk too and I plan on using my Crescent Customs .300WM shooting a 185gr Berger VLD over H1000.

Sure wish they'd post the results! I'm pretty sure I'm the 2ab limited hunt though...

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[Atanasius]

I'm pretty sure you are drawn for your first choice. As many other said both .260 and 7 saum will do the job perfectly with the right (vital area) bullet placement. Barnes #1 for penatration. Accubonds are very good choice.
Personally I prefer heavier rifle for elk hunt, since I do it long range here in AZ. Prefer seeing if there is other hunters. Since some Good Hunters were shooting on a RUNNING herd of elk between them and us I do only LR open country hunting.
Have harvested cow elks with 7 mm STW, 300 wm, 270 win, 338 LM. My experience is wright first shot placement. I do not shoot on a running game.

820m shot with .338 lm

 

[kraigWY]

I do not shoot on a running game.

This ^^^^^^^^^

 

[djskit]

The 7 Saum is propbably your best choice - I have a 270 WSM hunting rig I shoot 140 Accubonds at about 3150pfs. I've only practiced out to 600 with it and taken game at 550.

That being said, the Swedes have been shooting Moose with the 6.5x55 for over a 100 years and its not much different than a 260.

 

[bodywerks]

I'm pretty sure you are drawn for your first choice. As many other said both .260 and 7 saum will do the job perfectly with the right (vital area) bullet placement. Barnes #1 for penatration. Accubonds are very good choice.
Personally I prefer heavier rifle for elk hunt, since I do it long range here in AZ. Prefer seeing if there is other hunters. Since some Good Hunters were shooting on a RUNNING herd of elk between them and us I do only LR open country hunting.
Have harvested cow elks with 7 mm STW, 300 wm, 270 win, 338 LM. My experience is wright first shot placement. I do not shoot on a running game.

820m shot with .338 lm

Very nice! I'm with you on no running game. What unit was that cow harvested from? This is my first successful big game draw for rifle(javelina don't count). The reason I don't think I got my first pick is because I have zero bonus points, and my first pick was unit 27 early hunt. If I got 27 I'll be stoked!
FWIW, this will also be my first big game harvest if I'm successful! I'm really looking forward to the hunt, though, regardless.

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[Atanasius]

Photo was taken in unit #10. I'm also drawn for the same unit this season(2014). Many cow elk harvested in unit 3A/3C. I see you are a good shooter. If let me give u an advice! First hunt(since many years) is a difrent game, a lot of adrenaline. When you get to the point of executing the SHOT just breath deeply 5 times, don't rush, look through the scope for other huntes behind the your game and coldblooded squeeze the trigger!
Good luck man! A lot of existing moments ahead of you!

 

[coldboremiracle]

(even a poorly placed shot will take it down.)

Ya, that is an inaccurate statement.

The OP's .260 or 7SAUM are both fine choices, as stated by so many others, a good accurate rifle will work when you hit where you aim. You do not need a super magnum to kill an elk. They use the 6.5 Swede to shoot Moose in europe, there's no reason it wouldn't work here. This is a cow I shot with my SAUM a while back at 435 yds, I wouldn't hesitate to take the exact same shot with my .308 or .260 even if it was farther.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkqwU0gsRnU


I shoot one bullet per caliber, and they are all match bullets. That was a 162 Amax, a few weeks later I shot a deer at the same distance with the same caliber/bullet, and got almost the same result. The only bad bullet is one that doesn't meet its mark. Accubonds,SST's, LRX, Partitions,Amax, SMK, etc. they are all good when they are allowed to expend their energy into the right spot/organs.

Here is a mule deer I shot last year as well, not an elk by any stretch, but at 640yds, the .260 put his lights out. And an elk no doubt would have succumbed in the same fashion.

 

[YetiSlayer]

My go to hunting rifle for years for all game in North America has been my Pre-64 Winchester model 70 in .375 H&H magnum, it has never failed me and there is just something nice about a cartridge that has similar ballistics to a .30-06 but with a 300 grain bullet. But I also tend to be a but old school and I have used it for years. Just Sayin'...

 

[bodywerks]

Photo was taken in unit #10. I'm also drawn for the same unit this season(2014). Many cow elk harvested in unit 3A/3C. I see you are a good shooter. If let me give u an advice! First hunt(since many years) is a difrent game, a lot of adrenaline. When you get to the point of executing the SHOT just breath deeply 5 times, don't rush, look through the scope for other huntes behind the your game and coldblooded squeeze the trigger!
Good luck man! A lot of existing moments ahead of you!

Good advice. While out hunting javelina this year, I came across several more deer than pig(no pig, actually, but a dozen deer). I'd spot the deer, determine if it was in "my" Range, range it, dial up, acquire target, and stay locked on, following as it stepped and take note of the times it would stay still enough to take the shot. I did this on 3 deer. It was a good learning experience. I learned there aren't many opportunities to take the shot, and you gotta kind of anticipate when the deer will hold, because if you wait for it to hold for a couple seconds to see if it's going to stay, it starts moving as soon as you thought you were going to shoot!

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[Badger300wm]

Shot my first and biggest elk to date when I was 14 with a 243 at 200+/- yards, shot a few with a 270win and a 300win, last year used my 257 wby when my 300wm scope went loopy, the elk didnt seem to mind what I hit them with but sure appreciated it when I hit them with a good shot, bullet placement over displacement. For what its worth my uncle has shot an elk and deer every year for going on 50 years with a 22-250, of course thats at 50-100 yards and off his back porch on the hay stack.