Rifle Scopes Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

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daveog

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Minuteman
Mar 18, 2010
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St. Louis, MO
#1
I received my Viper PST FFP in 4-16 yesterday. I was very excited to get it out and look at it to say the least since I've been waiting since February for it.

I'll start with the good. I really like the illumination knob set up because you can turn it off in between settings, so if you like it on 7, you can turn it off with one click and turn it right back to 7. The windage and elevation knobs are very crisp.

Now, on to the bad. As soon as I looked through the scope I noticed a large bluish-green blob in the lower left quadrant of the scope. I immediately grabbed the cleaning cloth and wiped both lenses hoping it would take care of it, but it didn't. When I say large blob, I mean it takes up about 50% of the lower left quadrant. I'm very disappointed that this scope made it through quality control with such an obvious flaw. I hope that this isn't the result of Vortex rushing scopes out before they were ready. I really don't want to comment on the optical clarity yet because there is a flaw in the lenses, so I don't think it would be fair. Although, I'll say it looks very clear. I intended to compare it side by side with my Leupold Mark 4, but I'll wait until I get a flaw-free example.

Fortunately, I was very lucky and I have another one that should be arriving on Monday. Hopefully it won't be flawed. Needless to say, I emailed Vortex last night and I'm still waiting for a response. I'll try to get some pictures later today to post. Hopefully everyone else who got their scopes is happy and this one is an exception.
 
#3
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Look through the objective and see if you can see anything and what part of the scope its in if you can.

Lowlight's right if its just something on a lens, and if its not it'll probably need a trip back.
 
#4
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Sorry to hear that about a long awaited scope.

I had an issue with my Viper that I bought from LO. There was a piece of plastic on the inside of the lens. I called Vortex and they took care of me right away. They sent me my replacement scope along with a call tag to ship back the defective scope. I can tell you that I work in a repair department and we do not issue out a replacement prior to getting back the damaged product in question. I thought this was a great service that Vortex offers and it made me a believer in their CS.

Although you received a lemon, I am pretty sure that Vortex has some scopes in reserve for warranty replacements. That is what most companies due when they launch a new product. That way if there is an issue, they can resolve it for the customer ASAP.

I'd give Vortex a call on Monday morning. I'm pretty sure Scott and Sam will chime in once they see this thread. I am confident that Vortex will make this right.
 
#5
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

I got my 4-16 the other day as well and I don't have anything on the lense but I do possibly see a few issues.

How bright is the Illumination on yours? The only settings that seem even useable on mine are 8,9, and 10. Anything less than that with my hand over the objective I can't even see any illum on the reticle. I tried another battery as well. Honestly though for my intended use the brightness is plenty for evening and night time hog hunts. On setting 10 it's very comparable to the factory setting on my 5.5-22 NXS.

The other thing that I'm not sure if is a issue or not. There are what appear to be 8mil hash marks in the thick part of the crosshair on the horizontal and lower vertical crosshair. At 16x on the right and lower crosshair the mark is just outside of FOV but on the left it's about 1/2 mil in. As I said I'm not sure if this will cause me a functional issue or not though as I just mounted it and I'm not sure if I'm going to get out and shoot this afternoon or tommorrow.

And don't take this as bashing or complaining. Just my observations of my scope so far, pretty much a "Bay Window" review.

 
#6
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

I figured they would. This is my first Vortex scope, but I've heard nothing but good things about the company. Hopefully you are right and they have a reserve for warranty issues, I'd hate to have to wait months for a resolution. At least I have another one on the way, my other rifle will just have to wait a little longer.
wink.gif
 
#7
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

Yes, at the lower settings the illumination is very dim. At the higher settings there is more than ample illumination though, so I think is just fine. My Leupld Mark 4 is illuminated as well and is only really useful at the higher settings as well.
 
#8
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

Could be something on one of the lenses. I had a leupold that had a similar bluish area in the middle of the reticle, I sent it in and they said it was oil.

Also I don't think this means the PST is now done for, all new products have teething problems. Hopefully they won't have the failure rate I read about with the early 3-18 IORs.
 
#9
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, at the lower settings the illumination is very dim. At the higher settings there is more than ample illumination though, so I think is just fine. My Leupld Mark 4 is illuminated as well and is only really useful at the higher settings as well. </div></div>

The dim settings are for night vision use.
 
#10
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

I just looked through the objective and there is a great big piece of something on one of the internal lenses. I can't tell what it is but it looks like plastic maybe. I'll try to take some pictures later and post them.
 
#11
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newguy2k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The other thing that I'm not sure if is a issue or not. There are what appear to be 8mil hash marks in the thick part of the crosshair on the horizontal and lower vertical crosshair. At 16x on the right and lower crosshair the mark is just outside of FOV but on the left it's about 1/2 mil in. As I said I'm not sure if this will cause me a functional issue or not though as I just mounted it and I'm not sure if I'm going to get out and shoot this afternoon or tommorrow.

</div></div>

Did you try cranking the windage knob from one extreme direction to the other?
 
#12
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newguy2k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At 16x on the right and lower crosshair the mark is just outside of FOV but on the left it's about 1/2 mil in. As I said I'm not sure if this will cause me a functional issue or not though as I just mounted it and I'm not sure if I'm going to get out and shoot this afternoon or tommorrow.
</div></div>

You could place the scope on a sturdy table, aim it at a distant object, and then dial the magnification up and down to see if the crosshair moves at higer mag. That was what my Mark AR 3-9 did when I first got it from Cabelas. That or try what the other guy said about cranking the windage knob all the way to one side and back again. It could be that the reticle isn't completely centered.

It could also be your eyeballs or perception but I'm going to take it on faith that is not the case.
 
#14
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Here's the best I could do tonight. The scope isn't mounted on a rifle so I just had it rested on a step stool. The first picture is through the ocular lens and the second is through the objective.

IMG_6060.jpg


IMG_6061.jpg


 
#18
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

wow!! +1 for yep I would be pissed. But, Vortex has always been good to me and anyone else that has had any problems that I have heard of. I wouldnt be surprised if you have a new scope within days of reporting the problem to them.
 
#19
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

Wow. If ever a scope could have a black eye, that would be it. That's unfortunate but like others have said, Vortex will surely take care of that. Shame that made it out though. Months of anticipation and then that happens. Good luck man.

Mike
 
#20
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

I’m really sorry to hear this. I know you have been told Vortex’s has good CS so they will get you squared away.

I’m sure Vortex QC would not have shipped out a scope with a blob on the leans intentionally. It could have happened on the way to you in shipping. I have see spot get on almost every make of glass and it tend to be the inside coating flaking off and sticking to the glass do to the grease. The bluish-green blob sounds like grease. From the photo that’s what it looks like. You can do what Frank suggested sometimes works. No matter what it is when you have been waiting this long to get something and have to send it back just straight up sucks.


Mike @ CST
 
#21
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

I'm sure they will make it right. I haven't heard anything but great things about their customer service. Like I said, hopefully this is just the exception, not the rule. I just hope they have a way to repair/replace it sooner rather than later. Everything else about the scope seems great, everything I hoped for...minus the blob.
 
#24
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Thats really unfortunate, I would be bullshit also if my Premier came in like that.

Fingers crossed just for me to hold it first!

GG


PS I may pat it like I would my dog when I get it HAHA
 
#25
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Don't they look throught these things before they are packaged? Blame it on shipping but its going to get the same or worse treatment in use. Hopefully an end user will post some positive reviews from this frist batch.
 
#26
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

Wow thats just fucking rediculous. send it back, the crew at vortex are top notch and will set you straight.
 
#27
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing th

It does suck, but it should ve expected as I am sure that although they have stressed care and diligence to the max, they have also stressed "WE NEED THESE YESTERDAY" to the scope house that is assembling them.

Once the rush is over, I feel quite certain that these will be very limited issues. I am sorry that you have had to wait all this time and then experience this upon first inspection. I seem to get my fair share when I buy things too. I have come to almost anticipate the first one I get will have issues, but I try to buy from the better manufacturers, so I know that they will make it right. Just frustrating though. I feel your pain. I am sure that the Vortex folks will bend over backwards to make this right ASAP for you. They want happy customers, that is very obvious.
 
#28
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's the best I could do tonight. The scope isn't mounted on a rifle so I just had it rested on a step stool. The first picture is through the ocular lens and the second is through the objective.

IMG_6060.jpg


IMG_6061.jpg


</div></div>

Oh, wow that's much worse than I thought. That does suck bad. Glad you've got another on the way. I kinda looks like some glue dripped onto the lens.
 
#29
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

I agree with McK-Mike. There was a thread weekly about "Where's the PSTs?" "Any news on the PST?" "PST's shipping?"

I'm sure they rushed these through a little and this stuff will happen, rushed or not. If there was something that snuck through the QC checks by laying low in the tube then shipping, bumping, UPS treatment would have knocked it loose and made it show up. I'm actually happier to see it show up now, that shows that it was an error from the start and just got missed. If he'd have shot it for a month and then something popped onto the lens then I'd think that the scope my have faulty internals and was falling apart.

Crap happens, Vortex will make it good.
 
#30
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's the best I could do tonight. The scope isn't mounted on a rifle so I just had it rested on a step stool. The first picture is through the ocular lens and the second is through the objective.

IMG_6060.jpg


</div></div>

Wow, that scope DOES suck! The blob is not even in focus!












Kidding
grin.gif
. I'm waiting for round two to get a 6-24 PST. I hope this was just an anomoly
 
#31
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newguy2k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got my 4-16 the other day as well and I don't have anything on the lense but I do possibly see a few issues.

How bright is the Illumination on yours? The only settings that seem even useable on mine are 8,9, and 10. Anything less than that with my hand over the objective I can't even see any illum on the reticle. I tried another battery as well. Honestly though for my intended use the brightness is plenty for evening and night time hog hunts. On setting 10 it's very comparable to the factory setting on my 5.5-22 NXS.

The other thing that I'm not sure if is a issue or not. There are what appear to be 8mil hash marks in the thick part of the crosshair on the horizontal and lower vertical crosshair. At 16x on the right and lower crosshair the mark is just outside of FOV but on the left it's about 1/2 mil in. As I said I'm not sure if this will cause me a functional issue or not though as I just mounted it and I'm not sure if I'm going to get out and shoot this afternoon or tommorrow.

And don't take this as bashing or complaining. Just my observations of my scope so far, pretty much a "Bay Window" review.

</div></div>This is how the illumination is set on the 2.5-10's,4-16's, and 6-24's as we feel daylight bright illumination is not needed in long range scopes.The illumination is there for people that have a hard time picking up the reticle in lowlight situations. Personally I end up never using illumination,even at dusk or dawn, but I am lucky enough to have really good vision.
I wouldnt be too worried about what you said about the reticle, with first focal plane scopes the reticle actually moves with the erector tube and your tube might not be centered. This will also be the case if you mount the scope on a 20moa base, it will favor toward the top of the scope.All in all I have full confidence that your scope will perform as advertised. As always though if you would like us to take a look at it we would be more than happy to.



Scott
 
#32
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I received my Viper PST FFP in 4-16 yesterday. I was very excited to get it out and look at it to say the least since I've been waiting since February for it.

I'll start with the good. I really like the illumination knob set up because you can turn it off in between settings, so if you like it on 7, you can turn it off with one click and turn it right back to 7. The windage and elevation knobs are very crisp.

Now, on to the bad. As soon as I looked through the scope I noticed a large bluish-green blob in the lower left quadrant of the scope. I immediately grabbed the cleaning cloth and wiped both lenses hoping it would take care of it, but it didn't. When I say large blob, I mean it takes up about 50% of the lower left quadrant. I'm very disappointed that this scope made it through quality control with such an obvious flaw. I hope that this isn't the result of Vortex rushing scopes out before they were ready. I really don't want to comment on the optical clarity yet because there is a flaw in the lenses, so I don't think it would be fair. Although, I'll say it looks very clear. I intended to compare it side by side with my Leupold Mark 4, but I'll wait until I get a flaw-free example.

Fortunately, I was very lucky and I have another one that should be arriving on Monday. Hopefully it won't be flawed. Needless to say, I emailed Vortex last night and I'm still waiting for a response. I'll try to get some pictures later today to post. Hopefully everyone else who got their scopes is happy and this one is an exception. </div></div>

Man we are extremely sorry and I will personally assure you that we will make this right asap. I can also assure you that we inspected each and everyone of these scopes, but unfortanetly it looks like there must have been some foreign matter that held on somewhere during our inspection process and worked its way loose in transit. This is in no way an excuse as there should not have been anything in there to come loose in transit in the first place, but rest assured that I will personally make sure this gets taken care of. Please call me first chance you get monday morning and we will get this taken care of. My direct line is 608-836-0922 or 800-426-0048 ext 323. Again we are extremely sorry and will do whatever necessary to make you satisfied with you experience with us and our products.


Sincerely
Scott
[email protected]
 
#33
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newguy2k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The other thing that I'm not sure if is a issue or not. There are what appear to be 8mil hash marks in the thick part of the crosshair on the horizontal and lower vertical crosshair. At 16x on the right and lower crosshair the mark is just outside of FOV but on the left it's about 1/2 mil in. As I said I'm not sure if this will cause me a functional issue or not though as I just mounted it and I'm not sure if I'm going to get out and shoot this afternoon or tommorrow. ...</div></div>
While it is correct that the reticle moves during adjustment as others have stated, this is to ensure the very fact that the reticle stays centered in the field of view (FOV) throughout the adjustment range. After all, this setup is called a "centered reticle" for that very reason. In old scopes with uncentered reticles, you would see how the crosshairs moved off center in your field of view when dialing in windage/elevation. These scopes usually had small adjustment ranges and the majority of the adjustment was done by the support screws of the mounts and/or tayloring the mounts to fit, in order to minimise the decentering of the reticle. I'm not aware of any modern scope that works like that any more.

If the reticle is not centered, then this is due to the fact that it wasn't centered on the erector during assembly. This is not going to change by dialing in adjustment. As with everything mechanical, there is a tolerance when centering the reticle, depending on what the manufacturer deems appropriate.

A decentered reticle in an FFP scope is a purely cosmetic issue. The decentering will not change with magnification, nor will there be an effect on point of impact.

The other, more unlikely, possibility is that there is shading at the edge of the FOV when the erector is dialed to an extreme position. This can occur if the image created by the objective system is too small for the adjustment range of the tube because the internal diameters in front of the reticle are too small. This should only occur at the very extreme ends of the adjustment range and it will go away when centering the erector. An indication of this condition would be fuzzyness/shading of the edge of the FOV in one place, at the bottom if lots of elevation is dialed in for long ranges.
 
#34
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Scott will make it right, without doubt. The great customer service is why I spent a good bit on their products so far, and will be doing such in the future as well.

@Scott: Nice to see this actually happening, as opposed to having to hear about it afterwords.
 
#35
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Awesome reply Scott. The exact right wauy to address a problem.

thank God Apple doesn't make Scopes Could you imagine Steve Job's response to the same problem?? probably be something along the lines of "you must be looking through the scope wrong".....
 
#36
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmc80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> thank God Apple doesn't make Scopes Could you imagine Steve Job's response to the same problem?? probably be something along the lines of "you must be looking through the scope wrong".....
</div></div>

LOL...classic!
 
#37
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though



I really wish some other companies out there would take a lesson from Vortex Optics in CS.

I can't wait to sell my Mark 4 and get one of these puppies.
 
#39
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmc80</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Awesome reply Scott. The exact right wauy to address a problem.

thank God Apple doesn't make Scopes Could you imagine Steve Job's response to the same problem?? probably be something along the lines of "you must be looking through the scope wrong".....
</div></div>

Lol!
 
#41
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I talked with Scott at Vortex this morning. He was very apologetic and professional. He assured me that the scopes have been thoroughly tested and are checked before leaving, but mistakes happen. He forwarded me to customer service and they are sending me a new scope today along with a shipping label to return the defective one. First class customer service. I'm looking forward to getting it mounted and putting it through the paces. Thanks Scott.
 
#43
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Wow sounds like a lot of people are having bad experiences with these, I havent had anything that bad even with a 50 dollar scope. Unacceptable for the price tag in my book. 1 mess up is some one missing something, 2 is a lack of quality control. I think I'll be re thinking my next scope purchase.
 
#44
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

That's 3 for 3 now isn't from an owner's point of view? Specs on lenses, blob on lens, and the one with canted reticle and clicks being off?

Not good, not good at all. I have had one on order via Liberty since December, I may be contacting Scott soon to make a change.

Mike
 
#45
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is how the illumination is set on the 2.5-10's,4-16's, and 6-24's as we feel daylight bright illumination is not needed in long range scopes.The illumination is there for people that have a hard time picking up the reticle in lowlight situations. Personally I end up never using illumination,even at dusk or dawn, but I am lucky enough to have really good vision.
Scott </div></div>

I agree 100%. If you had a scope that went down to 1x to 1.5x then I can see having daytime bright setting.

Mike @ CST
 
#46
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Of all the bad reviews so far, they have been the 4-16 models. I haven't heard anything about the 6-24 model yet. I hope only the 4-16's are a fluke.
 
#47
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

Regardless, I canceled my order for the 6-24FFP MOA. I have a feeling the glass won't be what I was hoping for, and I don't need FFP that bad. My NF NXS 5.5-22X50/NP-R1 will be here wednesday and I think it will be the last scope I will ever need - buy once, cry once...
 
#48
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bodywerks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless, I canceled my order for the 6-24FFP MOA. I have a feeling the glass won't be what I was hoping for, and I don't need FFP that bad. My NF NXS 5.5-22X50/NP-R1 will be here wednesday and I think it will be the last scope I will ever need - buy once, cry once... </div></div>

I basically did the same thing, 3 weeks ago. I had some people that talked me out of the PST and into the NXS. I know it's a bunch more money but I've gotten to the point where, if I'm dropping big bucks on my first nice piece of glass, I'd rather get what I want the first time around.

The only problem is that I've also been told that once I use it, it won't be my last, lol.
 
#50
Re: Got my Viper PST FFP in 4-16, disappointing though

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sudnit5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of all the bad reviews so far, they have been the 4-16 models. I haven't heard anything about the 6-24 model yet. I hope only the 4-16's are a fluke. </div></div>

Two scopes have issues and some of you are screaming the sky is falling? I suggest that Jon A's scope would have slide by the average Joe by a mile! The blob on the other one is a bad deal for sure, but I just can not believe that people are bailing out based upon "two" issues and i again will say that the canted reticle would have never been picked up by 99.9% of the shooters that purchased that scope. In either event, I am sure that Vortex will make it right. I also would guess that those that are jumping ship have never owned a Vortex product before either. Too bad.
 
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