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Got USCCA? Might want to reconsider it looks like they fucked the guy that shot the youtube prankster
- Thread starter Im2bent
- Start date
Im gonna bet your chances of using uscca and winning the lottery are on the same plane. Ive always seen this as a scam.
People that pay for this protection, are going to be the last type to ever need it.
They've done the math....major money in....almost no money out.
Save your money!
People that pay for this protection, are going to be the last type to ever need it.
They've done the math....major money in....almost no money out.
Save your money!
I think there are 'word games' going on here, and it's in that nuance that the average guy gets screwed
These guys love to hear their own voices, lah blah blah, but its an interesting discussion
The Colie case had multiple charges
www.loudoun.gov
www.nbcwashington.com
"Jurors found Colie not guilty on the most serious charge, aggravated malicious wounding, but found him guilty of unlawful discharge of a gun."
Maybe the multiple charges, including the bullshit "discharging a firearm within a building" charge is what made this case unusual? If you take a gun into a gun free zone you are fucked if you use it.
but the public defender thing is bizarre and doesn't really have an official explanation of events
Something is fucky here on multiple fronts, but it seems no one other than Alan knows the truth and no one else can figure it out, so believe what you want, no way to argue
These guys love to hear their own voices, lah blah blah, but its an interesting discussion
The Colie case had multiple charges
Jury Convicts Alan Colie of Discharging a Firearm Within an Occupied Building
Lead in here
www.loudoun.gov
Judge denies request to set aside firearms conviction in YouTube prankster shooting
The man who shot a YouTube prankster at Dulles Town Center was unable to get a judge to set aside his conviction on a firearms charge. The judge also ruled Alan Colie remain in jail – where he’s been since the April shooting – while he awaits sentencing. Video showed YouTube personality Tanner...
www.nbcwashington.com
"Jurors found Colie not guilty on the most serious charge, aggravated malicious wounding, but found him guilty of unlawful discharge of a gun."
Maybe the multiple charges, including the bullshit "discharging a firearm within a building" charge is what made this case unusual? If you take a gun into a gun free zone you are fucked if you use it.
but the public defender thing is bizarre and doesn't really have an official explanation of events
Something is fucky here on multiple fronts, but it seems no one other than Alan knows the truth and no one else can figure it out, so believe what you want, no way to argue
Warp. You might want to look at my post (#19) and respond to that, instead of schilling for USCCA.
I dropped your organization when they couldn't even give me correct information on their network of attorneys. When I called to drop my subscription, I got an ass chewing about how I didn't know what I was talking about. She said they don't let you interview or talk to any of the attorneys that they use. Sorry, but I want a competent attorney that is not a recent law school grad associate. What's the fear about? Last thing I need is someone that is picked out of the hat.
I went with AOR (Attorneys on Retainer) due to extensive phone interviews with REAL attorneys. I asked a lot of questions, and they ask a lot of you also. It just felt more professional. They also have live streaming for audience questions and updates. You can also select your attorney if it something that is a non-chargeable event. It doesn't have to be gun related, but there is a fee schedule for non-chargeable events and you can select the attorney that you want. For chargeable events, like self defense shooting, expenses are covered and there should not be any out of pocket expenses. Bail is limited to 50K, if I recall.
They go out of their way to make sure that you are fully aware of the fees, definitions of what is covered and not covered, and services offered. Carefully read all the documents that you are signing and watch the videos. It is the only way, along with questions and phone calls, to be sure of exactly what you are getting BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.
And NO, I am not an employee of AOR. Just trying to be fair to both of these organizations thru my experiences.
I dropped your organization when they couldn't even give me correct information on their network of attorneys. When I called to drop my subscription, I got an ass chewing about how I didn't know what I was talking about. She said they don't let you interview or talk to any of the attorneys that they use. Sorry, but I want a competent attorney that is not a recent law school grad associate. What's the fear about? Last thing I need is someone that is picked out of the hat.
I went with AOR (Attorneys on Retainer) due to extensive phone interviews with REAL attorneys. I asked a lot of questions, and they ask a lot of you also. It just felt more professional. They also have live streaming for audience questions and updates. You can also select your attorney if it something that is a non-chargeable event. It doesn't have to be gun related, but there is a fee schedule for non-chargeable events and you can select the attorney that you want. For chargeable events, like self defense shooting, expenses are covered and there should not be any out of pocket expenses. Bail is limited to 50K, if I recall.
They go out of their way to make sure that you are fully aware of the fees, definitions of what is covered and not covered, and services offered. Carefully read all the documents that you are signing and watch the videos. It is the only way, along with questions and phone calls, to be sure of exactly what you are getting BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.
And NO, I am not an employee of AOR. Just trying to be fair to both of these organizations thru my experiences.
If you, God forbid, have a self defense incident, and the situation warrants an attorney, it would be the Delta Defense Critical Response Team reaching out to the attorney of your choice (could be from the network, could not). This is a different scenario than cold calling them yourself. You can talk to or interview any attorney you want, that also wants to, but don't be surprised when good attorneys are busy and don't have time to shoot the breeze with someone that is, probably and hopefully, extremely unlikely to ever use them for what is being asked about.
USCCA benefits don't have to be from a 'gun related' self defense incident necessarily either BTW. There are in fact AAR's of actual members who got those benefits without using a firearm.
Recent law school grad associate? The CRT noted attorneys on the USCCA list have minimum requirements including time/experience, these aren't inexperienced recent grads. But, you can also pick your own attorney if you don't want to use an attorney who is in the network (which are in all 50 states and DC)
I agree, carefully reading all documents is a very important thing. THat's kind of why I piped up...because people are saying a lot of things that are blatantly false and a careful reading and understanding of the documents as a USCCA member would clearly demonstrate that those things are false.
I responded to this post because you asked me something directly about a previous post I don't want to ignore that, but, I do want to step back as stated above since I'm "just a guy" (who happens to be a Delta Defense employee) in this context. I of course won't speak at all about any other entity in the marketplace because that would not IMO be appropriate.
The ultimate source of truth here is still to call or chat (via the uscca website) a Delta Defense (aka 'USCCA') employee anytime 24/7 with any questions.
I understand you have already, at least for now, made up your mind and gone elsewhere. Not trying to change your mind, you did your due diligence and made a choice based on research, I wish more people would actually reach out to everyone they were considering like that vs simply reading things online and making up their mind based on that (in many things in life, not just this, generally speaking...even guns/gear, rent or buy or try things don't just watch some YouTuber and then buy what they push because it's what they push...etc)
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If you commit premeditated murder and evidence clearly indicates you committed premeditated murder, I would not expect to have all of your defense expenses paid all the way through.
It is for self defense, not premediated murder
Fact from public record... dude stayed in jail, and had a public defender. Either way, if that's the advice and service that USCCA gives out to their members in need - hard pass for me, and should be a hard pass for anyone.
Also a fact - this guy "joined" in 2012 and his first post was bumping a 2 month old thread to defend USCAA and try to put out their dumpster fire......
Also a fact - this guy "joined" in 2012 and his first post was bumping a 2 month old thread to defend USCAA and try to put out their dumpster fire......
Public record: Judge denied bail, can't bail someone out when bail is denied.
Edit: But really I will leave this, if anybody really wants to know the facts and not just social media misinformation, please call anytime.
Peace
You should probably call legal in the morning and tell them what you did this weekend.
You know what else the USCCA is notoriously bad at doing? Suing assholes who make shit up and cost them a great deal of grief.
And no, I am not a member, never have been.
And no, I am not a member, never have been.
Fair enough. I can understand that USCCA would want to clear up any of the confusion on the two cases cited, but you did this in a rather duplicitous way here on the Hide. That goes to credibility.
Your first paragraph is troubling. You say in one breath that you can chose an attorney, but in the next, you say that they are too busy to talk to you for interviews. OK, let's say that I'm sitting in jail waiting for one of your attorney's to show up. Where's the choice? You attorney network is too busy for me to find one that I'm comfortable with, long before an incident? You also never address the issue of the attorney list that I was provided with. Many of whom, weren't even doing self defense cases. I remember one stated, in a recording, that they only handled personal injury cases!
If a client is sitting in jail, they are already in a highly emotional state and wanting Superman, not Jimmy Olson. Is this the time I want to interview your lawyers?
For me, I wanted to cut out the middle man ( your insurance company) and have direct contact with attorneys. I shouldn't have to worry about the fine print and whether an insurance company is going to deny my claim. That's usually the first job of an insurance company..... collect the premiums and deny the claim thru fine print.
In the end, who knows what will happen if you are put in a bad situation. It's a choice, base on educated and informed decision/choice. I chose not allow an insurance company to decide my fate, because the devil is in the details.
I know you are on the way out but this right here is exactly the problem. So, you are saying that a person can expect to not have legal expenses taken care of when charged with and prosecuted with what appears to be "clear evidence" that he or she committed pre-meditated murder.
Well, then, that is not the legal right to counsel that all people should have under the 5A. Pure and simple, cut and dried, no negotiation. Either the attorney represents the client in all circumstances or he does not.
From the vid:
If you bought defense insurance they won't help you if they think you were the aggressor and also the law forbids them from doing so. Don't buy auto liability and then smash your own car and expect coverage. That's not what you agreed to when you bought. This won't be particular to USCCA, all coverage companies will labor under the same restrictions.
Also from the vid :
Thousands of claims for coverage to the USCCA have been paid costing tens of millions of dollars. The defendants were charged with brandishing up to and including murder and USCCA's insurance paid.
There is a communication break down here. I think he is saying that even though you get to pick the attorney, it may be difficult for you to find and discuss suitability if you are just "cold calling" them and not in trouble. The attorney may not want to spend the time talking with a non-customer. I think he is saying just go with the one they recommend, but it is totally up to you. I got this from the attorney Tom Grieve vid.
With USCCA, the defendant picks the attorney and the USCCA pays.
The defendant and his attorney decide the defense strategy, not the USCCA.
Some other services are like this, some are not. Pros and cons abound.
Watch the long boring video I posted in post 53, the above comment is not always the case. The fine print allows them to overrule your decision if they choose to
IOW, save our own money to hire an attorney who will defend us. So, then, is USCCA an insurance company?
I get partial liability of an insured person, been there, done that.
But, if I am being charged with a crime, I need an attorney who is going to fight for me regardless of personal opinion or even collected evidence against me.
I did watch the vid and this was also covered by Tom Grieve in his vid. They can override if they think your choice is poor but, can override and do override are two different things. We would need to see data on how often that occurs to determine if the complaint is valid.
and you will never see that data
CAN override, means you are not guaranteed your pick, otherwise they would not have a clause that allows them to override.
You can read it however you want to. I read it like you can have your pick only if they agree, they don't agree then you lose.
It has insurance as its primary benefit so yes, it is like insurance. I agree, insurance is a racket, but I still have it (auto).
Agreed, with the clarification that you lose the choice in attorney, not necessarily the case though.
And there is the rub with the cold calling. In all cases where I attempted to contact the listed attorneys, I stated that I was willing to pay any consultation fees. As stated earlier, the one attorney I actually talked to wasn't willing to discuss setting up an appointment (140miles away). He only wanted to talk about God. That's fine if that is the subject at hand, but total b.s. for what I was wanting. This discussion is what made me drop USCCA. Thankfully, members of the Hide had alternatives for me.
An update, for whatever it's worth...
I cancelled CCW_Safe yesterday. It was just getting too expensive. And I began to look into "Attorneys On Retainer" (AOR). I put some questions out there on their website, in the hope they'd get back to me within 24 hours as the website said.
Well, whaddayah know... I get a call at 10:30am this morning from none other than Mark J Victor, himself, the founder of AOR (the guy in the YouTube videos). He spent a good 1/2 hour on the phone with me answering all the questions I had asked in email. He also clued me into some things they'll be adding to their offerings very soon which, if you're already a member at the time of announcement, they'll include in your membership for free. But they are planning a price increase soon so one has to decide pretty quickly.
From what we discussed, I think it's worth the risk. I can pay monthly or they do offer a discounted annual payment option. And most of the things they don't cover are things that none of the standard insurers cover, anyway. But research them yourselves.
I'll be signing up with AOR.
I cancelled CCW_Safe yesterday. It was just getting too expensive. And I began to look into "Attorneys On Retainer" (AOR). I put some questions out there on their website, in the hope they'd get back to me within 24 hours as the website said.
Well, whaddayah know... I get a call at 10:30am this morning from none other than Mark J Victor, himself, the founder of AOR (the guy in the YouTube videos). He spent a good 1/2 hour on the phone with me answering all the questions I had asked in email. He also clued me into some things they'll be adding to their offerings very soon which, if you're already a member at the time of announcement, they'll include in your membership for free. But they are planning a price increase soon so one has to decide pretty quickly.
From what we discussed, I think it's worth the risk. I can pay monthly or they do offer a discounted annual payment option. And most of the things they don't cover are things that none of the standard insurers cover, anyway. But research them yourselves.
I'll be signing up with AOR.
And another update, I just signed up for AOR this morning. I took advantage of the "Half off the sign up fee" from "Liberty Doll". All the paperwork is done. We'll see what happens. I'm still a little concerned about them not covering Red Flag Law actions (then again, that's not really a "self-defense" scenario, which is their thing), but we'll see.
