Gravely vs. XMark

[Srgt. Hulka]

I’m gonna need a new mower soon. I have a 23 year old John Deere riding lawn mower. It’s been a damn good mower, I mean a DAMN good mower. But the deck is worn out, the front end is worn out, the hrdrostatic drive is on its last leg, my son tore the cowling, over the motor, up a long time ago, the tires won’t hold air for long, and it needs a new battery…it’s just a mess. The bad thing is, the motor is an excellent motor, and still runs great.
So…I’m gonna break it to the wife that it’s time to get a new mower.

When I retire in a couple years, I’ll be moving, and where I’m moving to has at least 2 acres. So, I’m going to be looking for a ZTR mower.

My limited knowledge about them leads me to either a XMark or a Gravely.
The XMark is obviously the most popular with the lawn care services, and that means a lot to me. It has more electronics on it. Not sure if that’s a good thing or bad. It’s probably more comfortable than the Gravely. I’m sure the XMark is a great machine.

The Gravely has good reviews, seems to be a more simple machine, less electronics, which means easier to work on, and it looks like it’s built like a frikkin tank.

One thing I don’t want is a tin foil machine. A heavy duty deck is a must. A reliable motor and drive are necessary. I don’t want the mower to spend most of its life in the shop.

Anybody have any pros or cons about either machine that they’d care to share? I’d sure love to hear which machine you’d prefer, and your whys and why nots.

It’s going to be $6000-$8000 dollars I’m sure, when it’s all said and done, so I want to make the best decision. I’m going to continue to read reviews before I buy. I just thought I’d get your $0.02 worth as well.
Thanks.

 

[rcs]

Scag

 

[IronSkillet]

Found my self in this spot 18 months ago. Ventrac 3000 that was 21+ years of four Season use started to have multiple issues. Toro had just acquired Ventrac and dropped the small machine from production. Kicked a lot of tires, Walker was by far the nicest cutting machine but was $16K maybe 18K. What really surprised me was Cub Cadet it was one step down from their current top tier 20K+. Ended up with a JD 1025r (belly mower-bucket-palletforks-brushhog) once my jungle becomes a beautiful lawn may look into a bagging Scag. Best advice get out and demo stuff, don't get caught up with names because they all have crap mixed into the product lines these days.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I need to do something myself. I need a zero turn. Using the old school mower takes just as long as a push cause u can’t turn tight enough. What y’all recommend?

 

[eca7891]

Hustler

 

[D1gger]

Another vote for Hustler. I looked at Ferris, Grashopper, XMark and Hustler. The best bang for the buck, for me anyway. Built like a tank. Been using it since 2008 to mow 5 acres. I even found a 5ft snowblade with an electric lift. That thing plows great too.

 

[n2ishun]

I have a ton of Xmarks....seriously, like 8-10 (not entirely sure).
Always down for some reason or another.
Hustler or Dixie Chopper.

 

[BufordTJustice]

scag...

 

[XikoPlavi]

If I ever get another one it’s gonna be one that has a flipup deck. Thats the key in my book. Most people pass on grasshopper b/c they are higer dollar mowers but you get what you pay for.

 

[mtrmn]

I have a Deere Z920M, bought in 2014. No problems at all other than std maintenance. Mows ~2 acres grass once a week in summer, then chops leaves in the winter. Never gets a rest. When I read posts about people "winterizing" their equipment and putting it up til next year I just chuckle to myself and scroll on.
If I was going to get another brand it would most likely be Ferris for the alleged ride qualities or a Grasshopper.

 

[Arc Light]

My brother and I ran a landscaping business from 2005-2011. We used Gravely mowers with Kawasaki engines. Never had any problems with them, and they were run hard. If I had enough property to warrant getting a commercial mower, I would buy another one without hesitation.

 

[diverdon]

I ended up with a feris Z3X soft ride stand on. Stand on is nice because if you have to move something you just walk off and move it. You don't have to stand up from sitting. And if the bouncing from a sit on bothers your back a standon is the answer.

Usually in the spring Feris has a $1000 dollar rebate on for vets.

 

[jbrand11]

Bobcat Predator Pro with Kawasaki engine. Friggin tank with top speed of 19mphand still cuts decent

 

[vh20]

If Deere served you well for so many years, why switch? I’ve been running a Deere Commercial ZTR since 2014 on a farm mowing several acres a week (in Alabama, where we mow from March to November). It has never been in the shop.

 

[XikoPlavi]

I ended up with a feris Z3X soft ride stand on. Stand on is nice because if you have to move something you just walk off and move it. You don't have to stand up from sitting. And if the bouncing from a sit on bothers your back a standon is the answer.

Usually in the spring Feris has a $1000 dollar rebate on for vets.

I gotta say these are the cats meow. This in a 61 is probably what id buy. Im sure these are big money.

 

[Winged Pig]

I bought a Kubota during the Covid crap. Last mower of any type the dealer had. I needed a mower and after listening to my friends who all bought zero turns I figured I would pull the trigger. Nice mower, very stout but fairly simple. What I didn’t figure was how it would do on my hills… with .5 on the Hobbs meter I was really liking it. Not a race vehicle but much faster than my old garden tractor. Then my dumb ass got too close to a hill. That castering front end turned and off I went on Mr. Toads wild ride. The whole time I’m spinning down the hill wondering if the ROPS is going to work and trying to hit the switch to kill the blades. I didn’t think it was that big of a slope until I reached the bottom and couldn’t get back up. Had to get a neighbor with his UTV to come pull me out. At least it was just after noon on a weekday so I was sparred the embarrassment of someone witnessing my debacle. I’ve been trying ever since to come to grips with it, and while I really like it I’ll probably end up selling it and getting something else. Too bad though because I do like it.

 

[jrhtx]

Are you going to be the mechanic? If not, who has the best local service and parts availability? If you have to haul it 100 miles for work is that worth it?
I have a Toro commercial diesel (25hp) ZTR. It is 9 years old, will mow almost anything. The only parts that have been replaced, not including standard oil/filters/blades is the blade engage switch. I mow 4-6 ac depending on how much I want to mow that week, pasture fence lines (its faster than the tractor and can get closer), and grades are no problem. My biggest issue is it weighs about 1700-1800 lbs and in my sandy area if it is wet, it can sink in a heartbeat. It wasn't 20 minutes after the dealer delivered the mower I stuck it in a wet spot.

My local FFL just showed me a photo of his new gas Gravely laying on its side where he rolled it down a grade. He had to cut sideways because it didn't have the power to mow up the grade. His ROPs saved his ass. I don't know what model or HP his Gravely is.

Is your area rough? Check what kind of seat suspension the mower has. A rigid seat suspension and rough ground will beat you to death if you cut 3-4 ac.

If you are going to spend that much on a mower have the dealer come out and look at what you want to cut.

 

[j-moose32]

If you get commercial grade from any of the “good” brands you’ll be fine. Ran scag, JD, and xmark over 8 year ish period of landscaping. If you are able to perform low level user maintenance, it will probably outlast you. I did end up buying an xmark zero turn for my personal lawn, for whatever that’s worth. Also as others said, see who is close to you and what they can service

 

[Animal357]

I have a Deere Z920M, bought in 2014. No problems at all other than std maintenance. Mows ~2 acres grass once a week in summer, then chops leaves in the winter. Never gets a rest. When I read posts about people "winterizing" their equipment and putting it up til next year I just chuckle to myself and scroll on.
If I was going to get another brand it would most likely be Ferris for the alleged ride qualities or a Grasshopper.

How do you chop leaves?

 

[AMGtuned]

Walker. All day, every day. Grass handler model preferred; but the discharge deck is mulching capable so it doesn't leave big nasty discharge rows.

I've run Scag, and ExMark; rode a Ferris big block with full suspension for a day once. Personally I'd spend Walker money before the same cost for that particular Ferris.

The Scag mid mounts are good rigs. Come in a variety of sizes and engine configurations, for decent coin. Wheelie up a steep hill though, and won't climb shit backwards (Walker will climb anything backwards).

 

[Seed tick]

Pay someone to mow. Problem solved

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Pay someone to mow. Problem solved

That has crossed my mind too. I can get a lot of mowings for $8000. Plus, I don’t have to worry about maintenance. But riding a mower, spending an hour on a loud machine, that shuts out the rest of the world, and seeing the end result is kind of therapeutic for me. Sounds crazy, but my wife and I used to “argue” over who was going to mow. Now, she won’t ride my mower because she thinks it looks like white trash.

 

[Lawless]

I have a Toro Zmaster. I used it the last 3 years I ran my business (the ”oh shit this rental is a disaster” guy) and it has 1000 hours on it. These days it just mows my place, about 10 hours a month so it’s like being on vacation for it

Toro makes great mowers, their equipment is the golf course standard. Mine has never been down except a broken belt once due to a sweet gum ball in a pulley while my nephew was mowing for me and later an idler pulley bearing which was just noisy.

Air filters, 50 hour oil changes and 500 hour hydro oil changes. Still has the original trans belt. It’s an FX751V engine and 54” deck.

A true commercial mower will have the transmissions separate from the pumps, a Kawasaki FX series engine and fully welded boxed frame/deck. A real commercial mower is now 10k+. There may be some mowers claiming to be commercial quality or popular for small lawn services but corners are cut somewhere if they are much cheaper.

My sister bought an identical mower to mine once she operated it and tells everyone to not waste money on anything inferior (because they did twice).

Not everyone needs a true commercial mower but when you consider it will last a homeowner a lifetime the value is in the permanence. Read the horror stories of box store ZT purchases and all the problems to appreciate avoiding that scene. Go to a commercial dealer of your preferred brand and get a real piece of equipment.

PS - my BIL has a Gravely comparable to my Toro and it has been perfect for him.

PSS - To me, the number one thing to be happy with is the seat. Get a good adjustable weight suspension seat. Second, the biggest deck isn’t always better. Consider your property and what you have to maneuver around. A few extra minutes to finish making passes is preferable to being too wide to do close work.

 

[Seed tick]

If you enjoy it, totally different. I couldn’t keep my cub cadet running. Lemon I guess

 

[oneshot86]

All the mowers discussed are great, and while you shouldn't have anything happen to a newer machine, I'd still get a machine that was popular in your area for parts and service.
I'm on my second engine on my x mark, it was so easy to flop out. I put in a 25 hp Briggs and Stratton commercial series engine.
$700 free delivery and 2 year warranty from online home Depot. Old muffler even bolted up to it.
And, use the ROPS correctly, it has saved lives

 

[Major Wader]

You might be better served with a small tractor than a xero turn. We love our little Kubota, and it's very stable on hills. I have mowed my place with a ZTR, and the Kubota BX2360 is much more stable.

That being said, Kubota is my default pick for power equipment regardless.

 

[XP1K]

We've got two JD ztrak's. First one is a 737, 54" cut, 23hp kawasaki. Has 900ish hours on it. Seen some rough action. It's been through a couple mower clutches and that particular motor has an issue with heat around the cylinders. If you don't keep it blown out it can cause the valve guides to come loose in the heads. 15 years in and it's still going, it's my dad's mower and he curs 2-3 acres a week with it.

2019 I bought a 920m. 31hp, 72" cut and I've done nothing but change the oil and put a new set of blades on it once a season. Roughly 260 hours on it now. I cut probably 5 acres a week when everything is growing good.

The decks on the ztraks are built like a tank. Can't tell you the stuff I've hit with mine and it's still straight.

If green has been good to you and you've got a good dealer at a reasonable distance, I say stick with deere.

I will add this, my uncle got a ferris with the independent suspension setup and it does ride really nice. But, I don't like the way you sit on the mower. The deere just seems more comfortable in the seat to me. Maybe it's just what I'm used to. I can stretch out on my mower and I feel wadded up sitting on the ferris. Also, I don't like the deck hight arrangement on the ferris. With the JD, I can step on the pedal to raise the deck to dodge a limb, go over a driveway, giant ant mound (even the ant mounds are bigger in texas) and on the ferris, if you push the pedal all the way down, the deck locks in the high position. Personal preference I guess but it's irritating to me.

 

[mtrmn]

How do you chop leaves?

Lol. Just mow them in the same direction every pass until you get the chopped up remains into a pile. That makes good mulch for flower beds or gardens. Or burn them. Or just mow them in all directions without piling and the little pieces will just filter through the grass and fertilize the lawn. Or...
You do need to understand that I live in the alpine heights of the central Louisiana mountain range and if we get any snow at all it might last just a couple days. So the yard is exposed year round and leaves fall continuously from September to February.

 

[nikerret]

There are a lot of great options-pick a lower grade commercial zero turn based on the one that’s most comfortable for you.

Scag makes a good mower - that’s what the 80 acre cemetery I’ve worked for uses.

Other good makes are Kubota, John Deere, Hustler (Big Dog is a red Hustler; all made in central Kansas, on the same lines), Ferris, Gravely, and Exmark are on my list of where I would start. Bad Boy are nice, but more of a mid-ground between a true commercial mower and a homeowner model.

I’ve got a Kubota BX with a 60” MMM. It’s a beast, but slow. The top speed in High is around 9 MPH, and at that speed it doesn’t cut great. In Low it goes half that fast, but cuts nicely. I’ve used mine to cut many acres, commercially. Tough as Hell, but slow. I can do just over an acre an hour, on most jobs. On jobs where I’ve worked along side zero turns, they can do 2-3 times as much as I can, in the same hour.

Here are some of the tougher mowing jobs I‘ve done:

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’ve ran most of the commercial mowers and the only one I’d buy is a diesel Kubota. You basically can’t kill the things and the diesel doesn’t bog down like crazy in heavy grass. It’s damn near like running a bush hog with the shit it will cut. The rear discharge deck option is pretty sweet too.

 

[XP1K]

just get an Altoz.

 

[jrhtx]

just get an Altoz.

It would get stuck at my place.

 

[CaptArab]

I’ve ran most of the commercial mowers and the only one I’d buy is a diesel Kubota. You basically can’t kill the things and the diesel doesn’t bog down like crazy in heavy grass. It’s damn near like running a bush hog with the shit it will cut. The rear discharge deck option is pretty sweet too.

Can confirm- I've run them commercially but got out of that game. A couple years ago I bought a property and needed a tractor and brush cutter for some 3-4 ft grass.

Rented the Kubota diesel ztr for a few hours cause it was like 1/4 the price of the rental tractor. I fully expected to smoke the thing but it just kept chugging.

For commercial use I prefer the high HP Kawasakis though as they are a bit faster (or we're, maybe the diesel Kubota have caught up). Also the hydro deck up/down sucks for commercial as it lacks some of the feel when creating hills, etc. But for my personal property I could care less if the grass is an extra 1/2 inch high over the water meter- the less leg effort the better.

At the end of the day you're really just buying a couple hydro-gear transaxles, a deck, a seat, and a motor.

I'd cross shop the specs on different companies. Exmark and Kubota are both super solid.

Commercial use (abuse) is orders of magnitude worse than the worst punishment a homeowner could dish out being intentionally negligent so once you're solidly in commercial territory, most the brands are really a wash.

 

[cast1]

Scag. I’ve owned a tiger cat for 8 years and a turf tiger for 3. Flawless. Tough.

 

[j-moose32]

also, if its not actual "yard" and more of a thick field that you need to chop down every few weeks, may be better off with a kubota style mower. If your out there brush hoggin with any zero turn, its not gonna love it.

 

[vh20]

PSS - To me, the number one thing to be happy with is the seat. Get a good adjustable weight suspension seat. Second, the biggest deck isn’t always better. Consider your property and what you have to maneuver around. A few extra minutes to finish making passes is preferable to being too wide to do close work.

This is an excellent point I had intended to make as well. When we bought our JD ZTR, it had options for (and HP on tap to run) up to a 72" deck. I was all for that, but my mother (in her 80s and still likes to cut the grass) pointed out that we have a lot of spots where it might not fit in between things. She wanted the 54" deck. I thought about it and decided she was right, and that's what we got (the dealer had to swap out the decks because it had the big deck installed). It was the right decision. The time saved by being able to cut right up to the edge of everything we have to mow means virtually NO weed-eating with a string trimmer except in the flower beds. If I'd have gone with the 72", there would've been places the deck wouldn't fit and would've required coming back with a trimmer. We can run the 54" virtually wide open even in heavy grass, so the combination of speed and maneuverability is a big time saver over the wider deck.

 

[n2ishun]

If your yard is that large just get a real sized tractor and a 84-90" brush hog.
I've got one of those too.
I use a 48" Xmark for the close stuff, a 72" Hustler for the bigger stuff, and a Kubota L3540 with a brush hog for the big fields.
The idea is to use the right tool for the job.
You're an idiot if you use a briggs powered anything, the head gasket will start puking oil at about 50 hours use (the left head).
I only use Honda engines on my little shit (GX 630 or 640 for the win) and diesels on the tractors.
Granted I do have a 1958 Massey that I use for smoothing the gravel in the roads only because I can leave that blade on it and never remove it.
I mow at least 5 acres a week in the summer and every other week add at least 10 to that.
Thank gawd for Kubota AC and a enclosed cabin.....of course it has heat too for when I use it to push snow.

It takes a full day and 2 tanks of gas to mow my big field with the Kubota and a brush hog and you're just a sack of dead at the end of the day.
It would take at least 2 days with and little ZT mower, and they can't handle the hill, at all.

 

[Lawless]

I mow pasture at times with a tractor but I much prefer the ZT for mowing.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Thanks guys, for the help. Sounds like there’s quite a few good manufacturers out there,I just need to picks good commercial model. I’m still leaning towards the Gravely, probably the Pro ZX model. It looks simply built and simple to work on, built like a tank, and has a good reputation.
Now…I just have to get he wife on board with it.
Appreciate all the input.

 

[346ci]

I haven’t been on a G but have used some of the Exmark’s. For your price range new you should be looking at the radius. Used you could find a decent lazer z. Either way, make sure it has a full suspension seat, well worth the costs.

 

[RichJ]

This is my TORO with the 21 Hp courage single cylinder engine. Bought from a neighbor for $250 8 years ago with a cracked block. Ground out the crack and JB welded it when I bought it. That lasted 8 hours, cleaned it all up and used high temp RTV. At $250 figured if I got one season out of it I got my money’s worth. That was 8 years ago and it won’t die. I’ve got AG tires on it as we have 50 acres and my wife still rides a dirt bike. So we have 4.5 miles of trails through the woods that we maintain. 4 years ago I bought a 54” cub zero turn with the Kawasaki 24 Hp figuring the Toro would quit soon. Still going. They both have AG tires.

Rich

 

[podger076]

I second the Toro. Bought a 2000 HDX 2 years ago with MyRide and couldn't be happier. 60" mower built like a tank. Had a 540 Deere with a 54" deck, the Toro cut our mowing time in half. Mow about 6 acres in 3 hours compared to the Deere in 6. (plenty of obstacles). The Deere is now delegated to Tilling and Snowblowing. From what I understand, Toro owns Exmark.

 

[NotByWorks]

If you have slopes, you might consider the four wheel steer Club Cadet. The front tires steer traditionally which gives stability on side slopes. Front tires on normal zero turns offer no support on a side slope.

 

[podger076]

I agree, have to take a very shallow attack on slopes with a Zero Turn.

 

[fpgt72]

There are a lot of great options-pick a lower grade commercial zero turn based on the one that’s most comfortable for you.

Scag makes a good mower - that’s what the 80 acre cemetery I’ve worked for uses.

Other good makes are Kubota, John Deere, Hustler (Big Dog is a red Hustler; all made in central Kansas, on the same lines), Ferris, Gravely, and Exmark are on my list of where I would start. Bad Boy are nice, but more of a mid-ground between a true commercial mower and a homeowner model.

I’ve got a Kubota BX with a 60” MMM. It’s a beast, but slow. The top speed in High is around 9 MPH, and at that speed it doesn’t cut great. In Low it goes half that fast, but cuts nicely. I’ve used mine to cut many acres, commercially. Tough as Hell, but slow. I can do just over an acre an hour, on most jobs. On jobs where I’ve worked along side zero turns, they can do 2-3 times as much as I can, in the same hour.

Here are some of the tougher mowing jobs I‘ve done:

View attachment 8105718

View attachment 8105719

View attachment 8105720

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I also have a 25D, fantastic little machine really handy, and it does cut nice....but....you will feel every bump and my "yard" is real bumpy.

I actually mow quite a bit more then the OP had plans for so he will not need anything this large. After we quit playing in the dirt we moved to an old Forn 8n and a 5' woods mower. Worked well, cut nice fairly good on gas, but again slow, and we needed other machines around the house. Back when the boy was home it would take the three of us all weekend to mow, using the ford, the BX and a craftsman 52" that is 23 years old and still going strong, for real close work we have an old Jacobsen branded ford 48" that is just fine for squeezing in tight places.

IMHO there are two things that will make a lawn mowing machine last, first is right sizing it to your needs, second is taking care of the stupid thing. You take care of it, and get one built heavy enough for what you are going to use it for and it will last a long time. That sears craftsman is really just a rebranded Husqvarna. There are but a handfull of companies making these machines.

I bought this, now it is real overkill for the OP he does not need anything near this large, but there are smaller models. I bought it this time last year. My "yard" is bumpy as all getout, being an old field will do that, and moles, voles and groundhogs in my yard would stop an Abrams tank. IT IS BUMPY and full of holes. With the below machine you can "floor it" for the entire length of what we mow. What did take two full days to mow is now done in under one. It is thirsty, it is gas, diesel was just too much money. This was a hard enough pill to swallow, but it is a great machine.

All the brands I have seen talked about are good companies, just know that even a "wrong sized" machine from a good company will not last long if you push it too hard. A big box mower will die in short order mowing even 2ac. You want good pumps and everything that makes the machine move, generally speaking if any of that goes south the machine is done for. You want good spindles as well, it is not till you get well north of this machine do you get hydro spindles, so forget about that it is over kill.

Make sure it is built for your use, over built for your use. Then take care of it, change the oil and filters, mowing is a very dirty job. The machine will last you a good long time.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Well, it took a year, but I broke down and bought one. Ended up with the Gavely Pro-Turn ZX 52”.
There are two dealers here locally, and neither would work on the price. I drove 45 minutes north, to Texarkana, and picked one up for $1500 less than the local’s “best” price. If you’re anywhere near Texarkana, check out . Mr. Rogers is a great guy, with great prices, easy to deal with, and a hoot to visit with. So far, my mower is working flawlessly, with no initial problems, and cuts great. When I drove up with it, all the neighbors came out to drool over it. . hopefully, it will last the rest of my life.

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[oneshot86]

Well, it took a year, but I broke down and bought one. Ended up with the Gavely Pro-Turn ZX 52”.
There are two dealers here locally, and neither would work on the price. I drove 45 minutes north, to Texarkana, and picked one up for $1500 less than the local’s “best” price. If you’re anywhere near Texarkana, check out . Mr. Rogers is a great guy, with great prices, easy to deal with, and a hoot to visit with. So far, my mower is working flawlessly, with no initial problems, and cuts great. When I drove up with it, all the neighbors came out to drool over it. . hopefully, it will last the rest of my life.

View attachment 8400694

View attachment 8400695

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Very
Very nice.
You are going to be cutting your neighbors yards because cutting with a new commercial machine is so fun
Congratulations.
Keep it in the garage or barn and it will outlast you.

 

[oneshot86]

Well, it took a year, but I broke down and bought one. Ended up with the Gavely Pro-Turn ZX 52”.
There are two dealers here locally, and neither would work on the price. I drove 45 minutes north, to Texarkana, and picked one up for $1500 less than the local’s “best” price. If you’re anywhere near Texarkana, check out . Mr. Rogers is a great guy, with great prices, easy to deal with, and a hoot to visit with. So far, my mower is working flawlessly, with no initial problems, and cuts great. When I drove up with it, all the neighbors came out to drool over it. . hopefully, it will last the rest of my life.

View attachment 8400694

View attachment 8400695

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And wax it once a year.
People look at me funny when I say that but, damn, why wouldn't you

 

[AMGtuned]

And wax it once a year.
People look at me funny when I say that but, damn, why wouldn't you

I used to clean and fluid film the Walker, once a week.

People don't think grass be like it is, but it do.

 

[ironman56]

In the price range you mentioned, your not going to get a commercial grade machine , the gravley, ferris, scag and kabota are all great machines in the 8000 and up models, I only mow 1acre and got a bad boy ztr in 2012 ,it's been great no problems 60 inch deck , just change the oil every year, it's got the 27hp kohler but now they come with the kawasaki motor, I paid 5000 at tractor supply in 2012 and last time I checked they're still the same price. Heavy duty welded deck and frame , not really a commercial machine but far better than most home owner models , just my 2 cents .made in America too if that matters , my old boss (I'm retired now) had two kabotas one diesel and one gas and they were absolutely bulletproof, top of the line mowers , but you pay for that ,and unless your mowing for a living or mowing more than a couple of acres it just doesn't make sense.